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Hyosho posted:you think you're being clever, but they're already pushing for this legislation Note, its the same guy who wrote the bill reclassifying a rape victim as a rape accuser.
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May 12, 2011 17:21
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Orange Devil posted:This right here is why the US was/is torturing Manning. They needed him to roll on Assange and Wikileaks and it didn't matter if it was factually true or not. In a situation like that, torture can 'work'. Ofcourse the outcome isn't desirable. No, but installing an illegal surveillance system in every mobile phone in the city did. Sort of. In some way that was never really explained.
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May 12, 2011 17:46
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red19fire posted:I think it was the same article that 'outed' the show's producer as a Republican, but actual military interrogators commented on how torture doesn't work at all, even in the Inquisition times. But there's a new generation of 18 year old boots coming through interrogator school, thinking that Jack Bauer's methods are the most effective. A friend of mine recently applied for a job at an intelligence agency and said that he got though one of the rounds of testing by approaching every question in terms of "What would Jack do?"
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May 12, 2011 19:40
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red19fire posted:The other problem is that the viewer knows there's a bomb somewhere, because they'll put a bright red countdown timer on the screen at the same time Jack is torturing someone. So the audience gets drawn into "this is horrible, but justified because look, here's a bomb." 4...3...2...1...! "Hey, my burrito is done!" 
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May 12, 2011 20:39
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Regarding the torture stuff, here's an interview with a guy named Matthew Alexander, who was in charge of tracking down Al-Zarqawi. He's an outspoken anti-torture advocate.quote:The debate is skewed at this point. And one reason why is because we don’t know all the details, and secondly, because a lot is being left out of the conversation. And let me talk a little bit about that. One of the things that people aren’t talking about is the fact that one of the people that was confronted with this information that bin Laden had a courier is Skaykh al-Libi, who was held in a CIA secret prison and was tortured and who gave his CIA interrogators the name of the courier as being Maulawi Jan. And the CIA chased down that information and found out that person didn’t exist, that al-Libi had lied. And nobody is talking about the fact that al-Libi caused us to waste resources and time by chasing a false lead because he was tortured. link
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May 13, 2011 01:09
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I was discussing torture with my dad last night and he conceded that it doesn't provide information unless "there is a bomb about to go off, and you have the terrorist and he won't tell you where it is and thousands of people might die". People seem to love inventing fantastic situations in their heads to justify things. He still agreed that the U.S. shouldn't torture, but he wouldn't admit that it was a bad interrogation technique. I'm think I'm slowly whittling away his hardened conservative views. He's not really a bigot, and he's not stupid, so I've got a bit to work with. He's got money though, and I think that's the root of his views. He was bitching about taxes recently, and I pointed out to him that he lives an extremely comfortable life. What more does he want? He has it made financially, yet still worries about somebody buying food he doesn't approve with the meager stipend they get with food stamps? Apparently it isn't enough to have more than you need, but you've got to make sure others have less than they need. Thenipwax fucked around with this message at 15:01 on May 13, 2011 |
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May 13, 2011 14:54
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Thenipwax posted:I was discussing torture with my dad last night and he conceded that it doesn't provide information unless "there is a bomb about to go off, and you have the terrorist and he won't tell you where it is and thousands of people might die". People seem to love inventing fantastic situations in their heads to justify things. He still agreed that the U.S. shouldn't torture, but he wouldn't admit that it was a bad interrogation technique. It doesn't even provide information in that case. No matter how unlikely it is, if you ever actually had a ticking time bomb scenario then being provided false information to stop the torture is even more wasteful of intelligence resources than usual, since there's precious little time to begin with and all of the time spent chasing down fake leads is a waste of time you desperately cannot afford to lose. That's the completely crazy thing, is that the insane torture debate has actually led people to think that torture would be a good idea in a ticking time bomb scenario, when in reality it's more harmful than usual in such a situation. thefncrow fucked around with this message at 16:02 on May 13, 2011 |
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May 13, 2011 15:58
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Thenipwax posted:What more does he want? He has it made financially, yet still worries about somebody buying food he doesn't approve with the meager stipend they get with food stamps? Apparently it isn't enough to have more than you need, but you've got to make sure others have less than they need. It may be simplistic, but a friend of mine recently said that some people (liberals) can't stand to see people not get what they deserve, i.e. the 9/11 Responder's Bill. Other people (conservatives) can't stand to see people get what they don't deserve i.e. lazy black people on welfare. In my own admittedly limited experience, I've noticed that the more die-hard conservative a person is, the more disdain they have for empathy and those who display it. If you can get a self-identified conservative to express some empathy to begin with, they are surprisingly less hostile and open to dialog. As you said, your father has no reason to begrudge poor people their food stamps. Obviously the government trying to help them hasn't stopped him from achieving economic success.
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May 13, 2011 16:08
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Unzip and Attack posted:As you said, your father has no reason to begrudge poor people their food stamps. Obviously the government trying to help them hasn't stopped him from achieving economic success. He doesn't really ever go on about people on food stamps, but I know what his mentality is. My fiancee was talking about how some single mothers have more and more kids in order to get more bennies from the government. Supposedly an extra 6k or so a kid in tax breaks/benefits. I asked her why the kids should suffer because the parents are dumb, and she didn't have an answer. OK, so there are pieces of poo poo that abuse the system. That means we should let kids that had no say in their birth just starve to death? I've yet to hear a conservative actually have a decent response.
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May 13, 2011 16:53
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Thenipwax posted:He doesn't really ever go on about people on food stamps, but I know what his mentality is. You can start by explaining to her that those "welfare queens" don't exist and are a thing Reagan made up to scare white people into voting for him. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I bet raising a kid costs more than you get from the government for having one. It's not profitable to keep having kids for welfare benefits, but people just assume there's some loophole to be exploited, and that TONS of people are out there exploiting it. People don't keep having kids on purpose to get more money. They keep having kids because they aren't educated about birth control.
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May 13, 2011 17:11
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Dominion posted:You can start by explaining to her that those "welfare queens" don't exist and are a thing Reagan made up to scare white people into voting for him. Don't forget the 40 year war the right has been waging on reproductive rights.
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May 13, 2011 18:18
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Dominion posted:I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I bet raising a kid costs more than you get from the government for having one. It's not profitable to keep having kids for welfare benefits, but people just assume there's some loophole to be exploited, and that TONS of people are out there exploiting it. Somewhere between $8,000 a year and $15,000. I worked it out from a couple sources not too long ago (looking into kids myself), and I forget how much of that is coverable by medicaid and WIC. I suppose if medical costs are less than $2k, and you're dirt poor enough to be on several kinds of welfare, and you get the $6k credit thenipwax mentioned above, then MAYBE you might make money? But then you'd be taking care of an infant, which even the most neglectful parent is going to still spend 30 hours a week just straight up feeding and changing diapers and waking up in the middle of the night. Doing that for an entire year, to make ~$1k? Really?
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May 13, 2011 18:36
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XyloJW posted:Somewhere between $8,000 a year and $15,000. I worked it out from a couple sources not too long ago (looking into kids myself), and I forget how much of that is coverable by medicaid and WIC. I suppose if medical costs are less than $2k, and you're dirt poor enough to be on several kinds of welfare, and you get the $6k credit thenipwax mentioned above, then MAYBE you might make money? But then you'd be taking care of an infant, which even the most neglectful parent is going to still spend 30 hours a week just straight up feeding and changing diapers and waking up in the middle of the night. Doing that for an entire year, to make ~$1k? Really? But you see they just have the kid and literally never take care of it or feed it so they are getting that $1K for free! It's like a Lucky Ducky comic.
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May 13, 2011 18:51
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Cwapface posted:I have a totally unrelated question, but I figure here is as good a place on the forums as any to ask it. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3201527&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=378#post387668104 Hyosho posted:It's interesting to note how often torture completely fails in 24. The first guy Jack tortures dies of heart failure without giving up the information he needs, Jack and several other CTU agents resist torture quite effectively (Jack actually dies under torture), he tortures a little blond girl in series 2 and she gives him false information (he figures out she's lying, but not by torturing her). Assepoester fucked around with this message at 19:08 on May 13, 2011 |
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May 13, 2011 19:05
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Thenipwax posted:He doesn't really ever go on about people on food stamps, but I know what his mentality is. I have found that throwing "for the children" on such issues works wonders in having their face and mouth twist up with no response.
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May 14, 2011 03:10
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Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.
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It's not that they don't like those programs because they believe stuff like that, it's that they believe stuff like that because they don't like those programs. This is true for just about anything you hear something terrible about that doesn't sound quite right.
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May 14, 2011 04:14
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Aeka 2.0 posted:I have found that throwing "for the children" on such issues works wonders in having their face and mouth twist up with no response. I took a sociology class when I was in college and the professor came off as some type of hippie from the 70s. Shows that looks aren't everything - he was definitely a right-leaning libertarian. He would scoff at the government interfering in people's lives and would always end with "we have to do it... for the children. I mean what about the children?" in a sarcastic tone.
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May 14, 2011 05:05
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XyloJW posted:Somewhere between $8,000 a year and $15,000. I worked it out from a couple sources not too long ago (looking into kids myself), and I forget how much of that is coverable by medicaid and WIC. I suppose if medical costs are less than $2k, and you're dirt poor enough to be on several kinds of welfare, and you get the $6k credit thenipwax mentioned above, then MAYBE you might make money? But then you'd be taking care of an infant, which even the most neglectful parent is going to still spend 30 hours a week just straight up feeding and changing diapers and waking up in the middle of the night. Doing that for an entire year, to make ~$1k? Really? No, they don't make any money off it. Poor people are too stupid to realize that the government tax credit for having children is less than it costs to take care of the child! Someone I know has used this exact argument.
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May 14, 2011 05:19
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All those welfare recipients, must be soooo nice for them. Crammed into squalid ghetto hellholes with almost no hope for themselves or their families. One time someone, somewhere, at some point saw someone using food stamps to buy fillet mignon. Therefore everyone on welfare is actually living large and not waking up to a nightmare world of crushing poverty in a neglected "bad" (read: black) part of town every day. Must be nice.
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May 14, 2011 07:39
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The only moral entitlement is MY entitlement:
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May 14, 2011 15:55
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:The only moral entitlement is MY entitlement: What a loving joke. "Against the wall?" Do people really talk like that?
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May 14, 2011 15:59
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Rubies posted:All those welfare recipients, must be soooo nice for them. Crammed into squalid ghetto hellholes with almost no hope for themselves or their families. One time someone, somewhere, at some point saw someone using food stamps to buy fillet mignon. Therefore everyone on welfare is actually living large and not waking up to a nightmare world of crushing poverty in a neglected "bad" (read: black) part of town every day. Must be nice. People on food stamps only buy steaks and ice cream. I would know this because my sister works with poor people and she told me. This is a terrible shame and food stamps need to be gotten rid of. Poor people are not allowed to have food that tastes good.
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May 14, 2011 17:24
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What's better is you get "People buying junk food and candy and unhealthy stuff with food stamps. They're fat because they're lazy and buy bad food." And then you will hear from the same person "People buying fancy organic food on food stamps. Regular food is good enough for the rest of us, you shouldn't get anything special." It's a direct analogue to George Carlin's "Anyone driving slower than you is a moron and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac."
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May 14, 2011 17:26
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Pfirti86 posted:What a loving joke. "Against the wall?" Do people really talk like that? If LF hadn't closed you could see for yourself.
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May 14, 2011 18:08
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XyloJW posted:What's better is you get "People buying junk food and candy and unhealthy stuff with food stamps. They're fat because they're lazy and buy bad food." And then you will hear from the same person "People buying fancy organic food on food stamps. Regular food is good enough for the rest of us, you shouldn't get anything special." I think the best are the people that make the "food stamps should be eliminated because poor people need to learn personal responsibility" and "they shouldn't be allowed to buy junk food on food stamps" arguments.
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May 14, 2011 19:23
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I had a friend tell me that he hated food stamps because he saw somebody ride up in a 1000$ motorcycle and buy a red bull with food stamps. He changed the subject when I asked if he knew the person/knew their past? Are they supposed to sell their motorcycle because they got laid off and have no transportation? Are they supposed to get rid of anything they like because they are on food stamps? Should people on food stamps have to wear potato sacks for clothes before they are allowed to use them? What should you be able to buy with food stamps? Processed cheese and rice cakes? The average person against food stamps/welfare/Medicaid doesn't think beyond the initial reaction to someone buying a 1.50$ worth of redbull to wake themselves up, they just shake their fists and go "LAZY PEOPLE!!!!" 
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May 14, 2011 21:21
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A $1000 form of transportation, especially one with no protection from the elements, higher insurance costs, and less safety, is nothing I'd complain about someone driving.
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May 14, 2011 21:34
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Just to note, in Michigan, Redbull and other energy drinks are not approved for food stamps.
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May 14, 2011 21:37
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the posted:A $1000 form of transportation, especially one with no protection from the elements, higher insurance costs, and less safety, is nothing I'd complain about someone driving. Not to challenge your point but motorcycles are usually cheaper to insure than cars; just another reason someone looking to minimize transportation costs might prefer one.
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May 15, 2011 00:48
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Rubies posted:All those welfare recipients, must be soooo nice for them. Crammed into squalid ghetto hellholes with almost no hope for themselves or their families. One time someone, somewhere, at some point saw someone using food stamps to buy fillet mignon. Therefore everyone on welfare is actually living large and not waking up to a nightmare world of crushing poverty in a neglected "bad" (read: black) part of town every day. Must be nice. It's even better when that person who saw someone buy filet mignon one time was simply making it up and never saw any such thing.
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May 15, 2011 06:36
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Dominion posted:It's even better when that person who saw someone buy filet mignon one time was simply making it up and never saw any such thing. This is basically everyone who has ever said this btw It's just like the homeless guy with a fancy car.
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May 15, 2011 07:13
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lancemantis posted:This is basically everyone who has ever said this btw Just like how there's hundreds of people who'll vehemently swear that they met an Arabic kid named Shithead (pronounced Shitheed) or a set of black twins named Lemonjello and Oranjello or a black girl named Chlamydia despite no one by these names ever showing up in a government database, birth announcement, or obituary.
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May 15, 2011 07:44
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ratbert90 posted:Should people on food stamps have to wear potato sacks for clothes before they are allowed to use them?
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May 15, 2011 11:21
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ratbert90 posted:I had a friend tell me that he hated food stamps because he saw somebody ride up in a 1000$ motorcycle and buy a red bull with food stamps. Did you mean $10,000? Because $1000 for a motorcycle (assuming that was the retail) is pretty bottom line, I think that even a 125cc Kawasaki (which is basically a step-over scooter) is more than that. Many decent mopeds are more than $1000 new, and I can't imagine anyone thinking that a moped is too good a ride for anyone.
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May 15, 2011 21:06
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Ashcans posted:I can't imagine anyone thinking that a moped is too good a ride for anyone. If it's better than a shopping cart, it's too good for someone on food stamps.
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May 15, 2011 23:14
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I guess I found my way back on my brother's forward list. /sighquote:Robert David Hall is the actor who plays the coroner on CSI.
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May 16, 2011 01:09
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I hate the fact the ability to drive to your job is considered a luxury and not a necessity.
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May 16, 2011 01:16
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It's alright, he massacred a village of "VC" in 'Nam, but that was just a youthful mistake.
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May 16, 2011 01:44
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GraveyTrain posted:Yes, I'm real tired. But I'm also glad to be 63. Because, mostly, I'm not going to have to see the world these people are making. "Who gives a poo poo what happens to the world, I'm going to be dead!" The boomer mindset in a nutshell, ladies and gentlemen.
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May 16, 2011 02:45
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I'm not going to pick apart all the bullshit, but I do think it's pretty funny that whoever wrote that email thought about what writer would lend the most credibility and settled on some dude from CSI. George Carlin and Bill Cosby aren't good enough anymore. Edit: Oh, apparently it's just a different dude with the same name. The Bunk fucked around with this message at 02:58 on May 16, 2011 |
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May 16, 2011 02:48
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