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CA: San Quentin warden resigns and becomes reform activist, death penalty abolitionist.
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May 13, 2011 17:17
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Nobodys Here posted:Thanks for your work Hiding from Goro. I know a former Navy prosecutor and he always described prison as a dormitory with bars which makes this thread a real depressing read. My question is, are there any organizations within the Democratic party pushing for sentencing and prison reform? I'm going to donate some cash to the organizations you listed, but I'd like to do something more if possible. No, because it's "political suicide", just same as supporting reasonable drug reform or the end of prohibition.
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May 13, 2011 17:43
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HidingFromGoro, I'm interested to see your comments on the South African prisons. I just saw a BBC documentary on Pollsmoor Prison in South Africa, and their "Numbers Gang", a very different and fascinating situation compared to the stereotypical American prison gangs. The "Numbers Gangs" seem to be a quasi-mystical confederation of 3 sub-gangs (26s, 27s and 28s), rooted deeply in ritual, order and almost demonic-hierarchy. Each has a different role and relationship to the other and vary in levels of autonomy. They are ceded vast amounts of power by the warden. Violently settling dispute and indulge in systematic rape are openly, not just tacitly accepted by the prison officials, and wardens are regularly injured and killed. Here is an excerpt interview of one of the most unsettling leaders of the gang, the lead "28" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q27xtHbgXcU and the whole show http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZiq95dDju4&feature=related The Warden and all the other prisoners interviewed come off as very frank and philosophical and almost laid-back, it was quite mesmerizing. CatchrNdRy fucked around with this message at 19:22 on May 14, 2011 |
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May 14, 2011 18:36
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An anthropologist friend of mine who travels to SA often related an interesting story to me, of a guy in one of the numbers, who obfuscated his rank and number in order to gain the attention of some magazine or other. It's not sure whether he was transferred or quietly raped/tortured to death on the inside for his transgressions of "Number" law. E: Catchr, let me know if you want more on that story, because she's leaving in a month or so, I should be able to borrow the book with the entire story in!
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May 14, 2011 18:50
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Tias posted:An anthropologist friend of mine who travels to SA often related an interesting story to me, of a guy in one of the numbers, who obfuscated his rank and number in order to gain the attention of some magazine or other. It's not sure whether he was transferred or quietly raped/tortured to death on the inside for his transgressions of "Number" law. I think myself and the rest of the thread would be edified by hearing about those stories!
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May 14, 2011 19:13
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HidingFromGoro posted:CA: San Quentin warden resigns and becomes reform activist, death penalty abolitionist. This is good news, although I really wish Brown had the balls to outright abolish the death penalty. Although at least he is going through the process silently.
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May 14, 2011 20:06
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CatchrNdRy posted:I think myself and the rest of the thread would be edified by hearing about those stories! Cool beans, I'll pick it up before she leaves.
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May 14, 2011 21:07
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HidingFromGoro posted:CA: San Quentin warden resigns and becomes reform activist, death penalty abolitionist. Nobodys Here posted:Thanks for your work Hiding from Goro. I know a former Navy prosecutor and he always described prison as a dormitory with bars which makes this thread a real depressing read. My question is, are there any organizations within the Democratic party pushing for sentencing and prison reform? I'm going to donate some cash to the organizations you listed, but I'd like to do something more if possible. I've become a partial prison abolitionist in the past few years (I believe the system should be curtailed, and really only a few serious or chronic offenders should go to a prison that should really not look like modern prisons). We'd be much better served with probationary programs that combine supervision with legitimate rehabilitation with a penalty that is mostly jail with only a distant threat of prison). Not that this will happen. Unfortunately, most prison abolitionist groups see a bit crazy to me and market themselves terribly (no "normal" person is going to join organizations with anarchy or socialist in the title and I don't like the implication that they have shared goals). nm fucked around with this message at 21:41 on May 14, 2011 |
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May 14, 2011 21:32
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nm posted:(no "normal" person is going to join organizations with anarchy or socialist in the title and I don't like the implication that they have shared goals). Sometimes I forget how hosed you people are. My sympathies.
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May 14, 2011 22:34
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nm posted:Unfortunately, most prison abolitionist groups see a bit crazy to me and market themselves terribly (no "normal" person is going to join organizations with anarchy or socialist in the title and I don't like the implication that they have shared goals). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_anarchism
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May 14, 2011 22:37
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nm posted:Our governor is a death penalty abolitionist (and actually said so in the debates), fat lot of good that did. Ok, it did one thing http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/28/news/economy/california_death_row/?section=money_latest I am a social anarchist involved in prison reform, and let me tell you that normal people help us out all the time when they realize that no "normal" people are going to do anything but uphold the abuse inherent in the prison system. Not trying to sound like a stupid teenager or anything, but the alternative is getting less normal by the day..
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May 15, 2011 00:00
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AZ: Joe Arpaio misspent $99.5 million of jail funds over the last eight years.quote:Maricopa County Sheriff's officials misspent $99.5 million in restricted jail funds over the last eight years, according to a Wednesday morning briefing by county budget officials who spent the past six months researching the issue. Budget officials said $84.7 million was misspent from the detention fund, while another $14.8 million in inmate-services funds were misspent.
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May 15, 2011 01:28
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CatchrNdRy posted:HidingFromGoro, I'm interested to see your comments on the South African prisons. I just saw a BBC documentary on Pollsmoor Prison in South Africa, and their "Numbers Gang", a very different and fascinating situation compared to the stereotypical American prison gangs. The "Numbers Gangs" seem to be a quasi-mystical confederation of 3 sub-gangs (26s, 27s and 28s), rooted deeply in ritual, order and almost demonic-hierarchy. Each has a different role and relationship to the other and vary in levels of autonomy. They are ceded vast amounts of power by the warden. Violently settling dispute and indulge in systematic rape are openly, not just tacitly accepted by the prison officials, and wardens are regularly injured and killed. Much of this happens to one degree or another in American prisons (I've written at length about governmental involvement in the genesis of modern American prison gangs), these SA guys just seem to be less concerned about hiding it. I wouldn't worry too much about the mysticism of the tattoos, tats means different things depending on where you're looking at. The most common example being Russian prison tats- there's a documentary on them (and Russian prison in general) called The Mark Of Cain. There's no more or less mysticism in a SA prison with their numbers than there is with American gangs using Norse runes or Pre-Columbian imagery or what have you. One man's good luck symbol is another's talisman. Even here in America we have medicine men- shamans, wizards, whatever you want to call it. I'll repost some stories from just such a man in the next post. CatchrNdRy posted:Here is an excerpt interview of one of the most unsettling leaders of the gang, the lead "28" Seems pretty standard for an American prison gang leader (non-Hispanic) or prison rapist (this SA guy happens to be both). The rules are the same- obey or die, might makes right, and strength in numbers. "gently caress you, pay me." Like I said- quantum capitalism. CatchrNdRy posted:The Warden and all the other prisoners interviewed come off as very frank and philosophical and almost laid-back, it was quite mesmerizing. I think some (most?) American guards would be just as frank, given the opportunity; but our prisons are very adept at media management- look at how the GA prison strike (or Arpaio's abuses) are handled.
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May 15, 2011 02:13
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HidingFromGoro posted:Even here in America we have medicine men- shamans, wizards, whatever you want to call it. I'll repost some stories from just such a man in the next post. HidingFromGoro posted: Here is a thing. I was talking with a guy who I'll call Ernie about psychological conditioning and recruitment at companies/military and the similarities between that and what is used in prison gangs. Ernie was born in Mexico, but is considered an OTM (Other Than Mexican), because most of his background is "Indian." He spent most of his adult life in AZ and CA prisons, and almost all of that time as a soldier in a Chicano prison gang (breeding notwithstanding). He looks a little like you'd expect a middle-aged gang veteran to look, but is now free from prison, speaks five languages, and is a medicine man/oral historian. He told me some stories about the old days- and the new. The Eagle Warriors (and the Jaguar Warriors) were fanatic, highly trained commandos of the Aztecs. They were like pre-Columbian Delta Force or Spetsnaz- but even more than that, since they were protected and strengthened by powerful magic; and sometimes direct intervention on their behalf by the gods. Eagle Warriors were the right hand of Huitzopochtl, the sun god, with obsidian weapons sharper than any steel. As powerful and unstoppable as the sun, they annihilated all who stood in their path; as surely and completely as the sun obliterates the morning dew. Jaguar Warriors, on the other hand, were instruments of Tezcatlpoca, the god of night-time. They wore the skin of the jaguar, to gain its powers (and some of Tezcatlpoca's powers as well, since jaguars were his living avatars). When they weren't at war, they also went and got people to sacrifice- snatching up their prey as a jaguar would. They took those people and cut their hearts out while they were still beating. Wearing the skins scared their enemies, and the "naguals" of the jaguar (like a guardian angel or guide-spirit) helped them in battle. Some stories say they actually turned into jaguars, like werewolves. Some priests were former Jaguar Warriors, because a priest needed a nagual anyway (they go with you and protect you from demons whenever you travel back & forth between earth and the spirit world); and a lot of the strongest naguals followed Jaguar Warriors. [The Mayans had their version of Jaguar Warriors too, it was just a very important animal to pre-C folk. A lot of Mayan gods were jaguars or assumed the jaguar form- including "un name-able" gods so ancient that nobody knows their real names or anything else about them, not even medicine men or modern scientists. Well if the medicine men do know (as some say they do) then they aren't saying, at any rate.] Then the white man came, and unfortunately for the Aztecs his magic was much stronger. Gunpowder and the Good Book, very powerful magic indeed. Did the old gods really die though? No one can say- but the stories are still told; and in a way that's saying something about how strong their magic was (or still is). Why are these things important now? Because those 2 types of warriors were open to everyone who was brave enough + had a strong enough spirit. The pre-C cultures were hereditary for most things, like a caste system; but if you could capture enough enemies for heart harvesting, then you could join the knights. Still had to be related to the right people to get advanced spiritual/priest training, but (in theory) anyone could bootstrap into knighthood. So now, in the prison gang, it's the same deal. Institutional barriers are there for everything in life, especially on the outside, with things like poverty, racism, class system, Joe Arpaio, etc. But if you're strong enough (powerful warrior)- if your heart can be hardened to face the possibility of never leaving prison + deal with the psychological ramifications of life as a gang soldier (powerful nagual)- then you too can be a "knight." So like I posted before, the stories and the old ways are very effective at recruiting younger guys to do things, and/or strengthen the resolve of the already recruited. And like I said before, even the US military knows this, which is why they tell the legends of Zulus, Spartans, and all the rest to the new soldiers; and apparently now it's gotten so bad that even technicians in the Air Force are referred to as "warriors," both officially and otherwise. HidingFromGoro fucked around with this message at 02:17 on May 15, 2011 |
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May 15, 2011 02:14
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nm posted:Unfortunately, most prison abolitionist groups see a bit crazy to me and market themselves terribly (no "normal" person is going to join organizations with anarchy or socialist in the title and I don't like the implication that they have shared goals). Human Rights Watch, Just Detention International, Amnesty International, the ACLU, the Red Cross, the Brennan Center, Prison Policy Initiative, the Innocence Project, the Center for Prisoner Health and Human Rights, Penal Reform International- just to name a few- are professionally-run nonprofits or major NGO's. HRW basically single-handedly generated (with one document) one of the main pieces of American prison-reform legislation in the last 20 years (PREA). There are plenty of organizations to get involved in on the national or international scale. Your best bet though, is giving whatever money you can to one of the big dogs, and volunteering your time at the state or local level (no matter how eccentric they may seem). Or start your own, as we've done here in AZ. Either way, get and stay involved in local politics- in the end all politics is local, and all that.
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May 15, 2011 02:58
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Hey HidingFromGoro, I had a interesting talk with a old friend that recently got out of San Quentin. He had a lot of crazy stories that convinced me that San Quentin is the closest thing to hell on earth. He said that if you're Asian and in prison and you don't look like a thug then it's assumed that you were probably sent there for espionage and you're green lighted like a snitch/pedophile. That true? If so it makes sense for the US government to send prisoners there for a indirect death penalty. Also could you confirm this about Jewish prisoners, I've heard conflicting stories about how they're accepted. My friend said that since they're white they're accepted with the white prisoners, he said some of them even get Nazi tattoos just because it's intimidating to other inmates. The White prison gangs encourage known jewish inmates to get kosher meals since they're a lot better than prison food, and take them as a form of protection. He also said that if you see another inmate of your race get attacked/disrespected, and you do nothing to back that inmate up then you're going to get stabbed/stomped/raped. The most memorable thing he said to me is that even if you were the most peace loving multiculturalist in the world, it would only take a few days to turn you into a hardline racist sociopath assuming you hadn't been raped and broken.
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May 15, 2011 19:18
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HidingFromGoro posted:Human Rights Watch, Just Detention International, Amnesty International, the ACLU, the Red Cross, the Brennan Center, Prison Policy Initiative, the Innocence Project, the Center for Prisoner Health and Human Rights, Penal Reform International- just to name a few- are professionally-run nonprofits or major NGO's. HRW basically single-handedly generated (with one document) one of the main pieces of American prison-reform legislation in the last 20 years (PREA). Many of those organizations have names that would cause even reasonably open-minded Americans to raise an eyebrow. It doesn't mean it is right, kit means these organizations could use some better marketing in a nation where we think socialism is communism. I'm also not exactly sure how socialism is linked to prison abolitionism. I do see the anarchy link, but that is shared goal, more like getting rid of the drug war. I would love to see these groups mainstream a bit more.
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May 15, 2011 22:30
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nm posted:I know about these organizations (I am a public defender afterall) and they do excellent work, but I'm talking about organizations that pretty much advocate getting rid of prisons, at least as we know them today. Prisons crush communities, create criminals, drain resources by having a higher priority than actually useful things, devalue labor with slavery and line the pockets of Capital. I don't know how any socialist could tolerate the current prison system.
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May 15, 2011 23:03
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Broken Knees Club posted:Prisons crush communities, create criminals, drain resources by having a higher priority than actually useful things, devalue labor with slavery and line the pockets of Capital. There is certainly a valid argument that true socialism is incompatible with the modern prison industry, but I'm not sure the majority of socialists would agree with prison abolitionism, yet.
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May 16, 2011 00:01
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nm posted:Depends on your definition of socialism. I'd love to know which definition of socialism considers creating crime, permanent underclasses and depreciating labor value to be positive outcomes.
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May 16, 2011 00:51
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There's a huge difference between "our current prison system is horribly flawed" and "we should abolish all prisons". It's very possible that a society with lovely prisons is better than a society with no prisons.
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May 16, 2011 01:42
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Broken Knees Club posted:I'd love to know which definition of socialism considers creating crime, permanent underclasses and depreciating labor value to be positive outcomes. The boogy man definition that involves some combination of 1984 and Nazi Germany. Think Glen Beck.
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May 16, 2011 02:16
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Rutibex posted:The boogy man definition that involves some combination of 1984 and Nazi Germany. Think Glen Beck. So it's the kind of "socialist" that wants to send all the socialists to death camps?  e: Wait, that's what you were saying. I call Poe's, I seriously thought you were making a legit argument. 
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May 16, 2011 02:20
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OG KUSH BLUNTS posted:1 He had a lot of crazy stories that convinced me that San Quentin is the closest thing to hell on earth. 1 Yes, "hell on earth" is a good description of California prisons- they call it "Killa Cali" for a reason. In the interest of brevity, see here and here. 2 Asian integration is going to depend on the yard, in NorCal, HI, and WA, as well as some NY yards there will be enough Asians for them to stick together and look out for one another. AZ, OK, IA, etc there just aren't that many Asians to begin with so naturally there won't be that many in prison. If not then usually some sort of deal can be worked out for protection with one group or another (everything is for sale in prison, especially protection). But the issue with Asians or any underrepresented group is that you're going to stick out. The key to doing your own time is being low profile, under the radar. That's a lot harder to do if you're the only Asian on the yard. It's the same for every race, if you're the only X where everyone else is Y then you're automatically a loner, an outsider- and worst of all, everyone else has lots of friends and you don't. I've heard tell of Asians being accepted in AZ prisons by OTM's ("Other Than Mexican") and also of the opposite. It just depends on the yard. I don't know about all that espionage stuff. 3 As far as Jews, one of the founders of the AB's was half-Jew (or all Jew, depending on your perspective) and had big Star of David tattoos. White is white, at least in prison. As far as the meals, usually any special meal (kosher, special diet, vegetarian) will be "better" than regular food, since it won't be made as far ahead of time and will usually be made by some guy assigned to the task instead of the frenzied assembly line of the other food. 4 Yeah you can't really just throw one of your own color under the bus like that, there are often consequences to something like that. It's partially deterrence, as with nuclear missiles in the cold war, it's also Otherization by degree- in the 60's black & white were at each others' throats; but in the jungles of Vietnam they stood together, because the Vietnamese were more Other than white American vs. black American (also because of what I explain in 5). Or after 9/11, white brown & black united in hatred of Osama; so on and so forth. In prison, race is just who you are. It's the best way to determine that, because it can't be hidden, it can't be changed, and racial divisions form naturally for a lot of people- and when they don't, the division will be agitated by the Machine. Divide and conquer. 5 As far as your last point, it just depends on how you want to look at things. Most people understand that how it is in prison isn't the same as how it is on the outside. You do what you must given the situation you're in. Look at the Christmas truces in WW1 etc. They didn't really hate each other, they just were on opposite sides of some line or the next due to forces beyond their control. So when given the chance let's get drunk and sing songs and all that together. But- and make no mistake- when Christmas is over we're going right back to trying our damnedest to blast each other apart. As we say in prison; "it's just business."
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May 16, 2011 02:40
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CatchrNdRy posted:Numbers Gang video That was highly interesting - thanks for posting that. The Wiki entry about The Numbers Gang is surprisingly comprehensive. It different in that it appears to be only one real gang separated into three wings, who all work in something resembling harmony. Curious to know if there's ever been an attempted upstart group trying to compete. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Numbers_Gang Content: continuing in the theme of right wing people becoming anti-Machine after they've had a run-in with it, here's an article by Conrad Black, out on appeal from a prison in Florida writing about the need for a change to drug laws in the USA and Canada: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Wrong+crime/4782674/story.html olylifter fucked around with this message at 03:16 on May 16, 2011 |
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May 16, 2011 03:12
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Broken Knees Club posted:I'd love to know which definition of socialism considers creating crime, permanent underclasses and depreciating labor value to be positive outcomes. Let's not be silly. While you won't find that in either The Wealth of Nations or in the 1844 Manuscripts, both Socialist and Capitalist nations have prisons. Societies of any appreciable size, no matter where on the spectrum, lead to prisons. Anarchists don't need prisons because when it comes down to it, there's no anarchist society larger than one. Socialist anarchists don't need prisons, because the biggest you can get is about 200 people, and banishment works for a society that small. Capitalism has plenty of problems - but creating prisons isn't one of them. It sucks, but we're stuck with prisons - and it's better than good old-fashioned lex talionis. The useful mission is to make prisons as rarely-used, rehabilitative and not-bad as we can. A giant first step would be to end the 'one strike and you're essentially unemployable for life - welcome to the underclass' system.
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May 16, 2011 04:19
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HidingFromGoro posted:Much of this happens to one degree or another in American prisons (I've written at length about governmental involvement in the genesis of modern American prison gangs), these SA guys just seem to be less concerned about hiding it. I wouldn't worry too much about the mysticism of the tattoos, tats means different things depending on where you're looking at. The most common example being Russian prison tats- there's a documentary on them (and Russian prison in general) called The Mark Of Cain. There's no more or less mysticism in a SA prison with their numbers than there is with American gangs using Norse runes or Pre-Columbian imagery or what have you. One man's good luck symbol is another's talisman. Even here in America we have medicine men- shamans, wizards, whatever you want to call it. I'll repost some stories from just such a man in the next post. Thanks for taking the time to check that stuff out. I've always found your threads and info very informative. I suppose you are right, every gang will have their own seemingly mystic rituals. I assume to instill a sense of awe and forge group identity. Perhaps their foreign "otherness" and accents mesmerized me into thinking the South African Numbers Gang were somewhat unique. I will watch the Mark of Cain soon. I gather you largely see this South African prison situation as just par for course, and I am enlightened by your assessment. But...Why wouldn't a reknown hands-on rapist/murder (allegedly hundreds personally murdered in prison and a new boy every 3 weeks for the past 30 years) like John Mongrel be put in a segregated wing, rather than be allowed to operate openly and with impunity? I think you had previously stated in Latin America wealthy drug lords had those privileges, but John Mongrel just seems like a poor thug who only has power within the walls of the prison. Is there any other reasons besides bribery would they allow him such power and freedom? Is it odd that he rapes them face-to-face (maybe he is just a romantic at heart)? And didn't the warden strike you as particularly laid back? Or perhaps its just a cultural differential. He seems extremely settled about the reality of having to cede power and cut deals with the Numbers Gang, moreso than I imagine an American warden would be. Take for example these 3 minutes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPxYdMNsMy8 From 4:00 the warden and the reporter just walk into a crowded cell to chat with the inmates. At 7:00 they even allow the inmates to demonstrate their homemade weapons. Would an American warden just stroll into a cell like that, knowing the inmates have makeshift weapons? Earlier in the show, they said this 20 year warden commands enormous respect for some reason, so perhaps he is not as passive and as he appears to be? olylifter posted:That was highly interesting - thanks for posting that. The Wiki entry about The Numbers Gang is surprisingly comprehensive. It different in that it appears to be only one real gang separated into three wings, who all work in something resembling harmony. Curious to know if there's ever been an attempted upstart group trying to compete. And the 27 says 'salute my brother, you watch!' The origin story on Wikipedia seems like a fairy tale told by someone on peyote. I dunno why but the structure just fascinates the hell out of me, and it seems unique. Though Hiding From Goro has stated underneath it all, its no different than any other gang (as the ultimate goal is power and money). From my reading, there seem to have no serious prison gang challenging the Numbers Gang. But its not an iron-clad rule. It seems 26s and 28s often have power struggles, even though their roles and philosophies are supposedly different. Apparently they can't even speak openly about or to each other, everything is mediated via the 27s. And each number has its own ritualized and titled sub-divisions. It seems so infernal and Faustian, I imagine it is similar to how a medieval writer would portray demonic politics. The documentaries I've seen American prison gangs, make them seem just like regular gangs, only they happen to be in prison. I guess the management required to make the varying factions of the Numbers Gang a well oiled-machine keeps them busy enough. And cutting out eyes of jailers. CatchrNdRy fucked around with this message at 09:20 on May 16, 2011 |
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May 16, 2011 08:46
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joat mon posted:Let's not be silly. While you won't find that in either The Wealth of Nations or in the 1844 Manuscripts, both Socialist and Capitalist nations have prisons. I'm not railing against prisons. I'm railing against a very specific capitalist parody of a justice system. A prison system that actually creates crime is a failed prisons system that should be dismantled and rebuilt from ground up regardless of the local political creed of choice.
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May 16, 2011 09:38
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Has somebody hosted the Prison Nation thread on a website other than SomethingAwful? It's just I'd rather show it to people on a website that looks slightly more reputable than LF.
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May 17, 2011 16:27
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Orkiec posted:Has somebody hosted the Prison Nation thread on a website other than SomethingAwful? It's just I'd rather show it to people on a website that looks slightly more reputable than LF. Right here
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May 17, 2011 16:38
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Orkiec posted:Has somebody hosted the Prison Nation thread on a website other than SomethingAwful? It's just I'd rather show it to people on a website that looks slightly more reputable than LF. I periodically repost the news articles and some of my longer posts at the re-think america blog, also home to financial and economic articles by dm and Dante.
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May 18, 2011 02:48
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/opinion/15alexander.html This is an interesting op-ed in the times. Perhaps the staggering cost of the prison industrial complex is finally weighing in on people's pocketbooks?
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May 18, 2011 19:30
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Peven Stan posted:http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/opinion/15alexander.html
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May 18, 2011 21:29
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As long as it's making a very few people very rich it doesn't matter how much it costs in taxes
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May 18, 2011 23:35
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quote:On July 1, 2011, in California, between 50 and 100 prisoners at Pelican Bay State Prison in the Security Housing Unit (SHU), Corridor D, are going on an indefinite hunger strike. http://www.prisonactivist.org/node/959
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May 20, 2011 00:16
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May 20, 2011 05:35
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Louis Theroux (of San Quentin, Black Nationalists, Most Hated Family docu fame) goes to a Miami jail. No video (yet, as far as I know), but there's an article up on BBC. It's very... interesting  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13457576
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May 20, 2011 22:41
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CatchrNdRy posted:
I don't know a lot about prisons, but it's worth bearing in mind that South African crime rates are very, very high, quite a lot more so than American crime rates. The government has less resources to use in prisons and law enforcement, so the criminals effectively have more freedom to operate. At any given time in a random prison in South Africa, the wardens probably don't have as much power as the American wardens would have. Effectively, the Numbers have lots of leverage so the warders pretty much have to make friends with them if they want to survive. Why isn't Mongrel in solitary? Good question. I think he might have been sometimes, but the simple fact is that SA prisons don't have as much room for solitary confinement. They don't have as many Super Max facilities, either. I think there's only one Super Max facility in all of South Africa, and you'd need to pull some outrageous poo poo to go there. I'm not even talking double homicide, I'm talking serial killer/mass murderer/terrorist/crimes against humanity. They can keep something like 100 people there. If even all the solitary confinement places are chock a block, it becomes harder to keep prisoners like Mongrel confined. Where do you put him?
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May 21, 2011 16:00
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I have question with regards to Womens prisons in the US. What are they like? are they as overcrowded as mens prisons? What sort of problems do the two systems share, and which are unique to one or the other? I presume there's less of a problem with sexual violence between inmates (not that women can't commit such acts of course), is this presumption correct? What about guard-on-inmate abuse? Inter-inmate violence and murder? gangs?
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May 21, 2011 17:34
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| # ? May 29, 2024 16:30 |
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Fatkraken posted:I have question with regards to Womens prisons in the US. I know that in my state, the women's prison is four times as crowded as the overcrowded men's prison. I do know that sexual violence is a problem in women's prisons, though possibly to a lesser extent than in men's prisons. There was a really good episode of Lockdown about a women's prison you should definitely check out! http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/lockdown/3065/Overview
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May 21, 2011 17:40
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