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Sophia posted:From where I'm sitting, he could have spent a bunch of chapters in the Fae realm as long as it wasn't all about how he was becoming a Level 20 sex god. I think going to other worlds and learning mystical secrets about monstrous trees and creation mythology stories and whatever is neat.
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May 12, 2011 20:14
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JT Jag posted:If they had edited the fae down to Initial Sexcapades (they have to do that, Felurian is a sex goddess, that was always her thing), Kvothe Unwittingly Calling Felurian's True Name, Kvothe scams Felurian with a song, Shaed making/discussion of the stealing of the moon and the Cthaeh and cut out all the bizarre Extra Sexcapades, it would have been a legitimately interesting and fun section. As is it's a drag. This exactly. Sometimes Rothfuss' wordiness and over-description actually helps out, as sometimes the little details help the story and setting feel real. That was not one of those times.
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May 12, 2011 20:22
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Someone earlier in the thread talked about perceived allusions toward the death of Elodin. Isn't he mentioned by Chronicler when he talks about his time at the University? Seems like Elodin being dead would be something you'd bring up in a situation like that, "Yeah, what a cool dude. Called me a lot of names, shame about that sonic diarrhea though."
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May 12, 2011 23:21
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I think the Elodin freaking out momentarily about the Denna name change thing was important. I'd speculate Kvothe changed his Name and not just his name to Kote. It would explain how he lost most of his skills and that he is not just playing the part of a inn owner. No idea how he killed a bunch of spider demons, though.
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May 13, 2011 17:54
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Vishass posted:I think the Elodin freaking out momentarily about the Denna name change thing was important. I'd speculate Kvothe changed his Name and not just his name to Kote. It would explain how he lost most of his skills and that he is not just playing the part of a inn owner. No idea how he killed a bunch of spider demons, though.
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May 13, 2011 18:16
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I never really connected it, but is it odd to anyone else that he is strangely ok with having his true name published?
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May 13, 2011 21:27
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Something occurs to me. Remember when Kvothe swears on his name, his magic, his good left hand and on the phases of the ever-changing moon that he would never investigate Denna's patron? He's clearly going to do that. Maybe even unintentionally, if investigating Denna's patron is equivalent to investigating the Amyr like some people speculate. In the end, his sympathy is messed up, he doesn't play music, and he goes by a different name. Perhaps he finds some sort of Creation War-era enchantment to bind himself by to uphold his broken oath.
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May 13, 2011 21:42
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That's an interesting thought. Or possibly those are the things he has to give up to get to the answers he wants - as in he willingly gives them up in a deal with the devil. Some kind of curiosity killed the cat-type scenario. Edit: In any case I think that Denna as a character is going to be someone who people tolerate a lot more in the first two books when the third one is out. Without knowing her end game, she seems pointless, but I have enough faith in Rothfuss's foresight to think she'll end up being much more interesting. Sophia fucked around with this message at 21:49 on May 13, 2011 |
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May 13, 2011 21:45
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I think the fact that the original story has been split up over three volumes and expanded probably hurt the flow of the main plot a good deal. It's obvious he has a direction for it, but it's been really slow up to this point. Looking forward to seeing how he wraps everything up in the third book (and hell, I'll enjoy it to some degree anyway because of how good his prose is) as well as what he can do with an entirely different story after this series is done.
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May 14, 2011 00:54
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Mahlertov Cocktail posted:I think the fact that the original story has been split up over three volumes and expanded probably hurt the flow of the main plot a good deal. It's obvious he has a direction for it, but it's been really slow up to this point. Looking forward to seeing how he wraps everything up in the third book (and hell, I'll enjoy it to some degree anyway because of how good his prose is) as well as what he can do with an entirely different story after this series is done. This. I can't help but think this would have been a great 700-1000 page story that covered Kvothe's entire life. I'm sure the publisher read it and encouraged him to make it a trilogy to sell more book, though.
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May 14, 2011 15:03
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Read Name of the Wind in 2 days, bought Wise Man over Kindle to get it faster. Great series. I am wondering thought if Kvothe is really as heroic as his story sounds. Since I read the Urth cycle, I've always been looking at first person protagonists as potential unreliable narrators, and for some reason I get that impression from Kvothe. Something about the way he tries to sound humble, but at the same time talking about how useful and important his reputation is. I wish there was a date for the 3rd book though. I have been burned so badly by GRRM that I just can't be optimistic.
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May 14, 2011 18:30
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I spent literally all of today reading Name of the Wind, I find myself reading slowing because I almost don't want to finish my story. I'm looking forward to reading Wise Man, however what will be next? Can I get any good recommendations? Sequitur fucked around with this message at 02:15 on May 15, 2011 |
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May 15, 2011 02:07
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Sequitur posted:however what will be next? Can I get any good recommendations? Are you just looking for fantasy, or what? Have you read A Song of Ice and Fire? Because everyone and his mother will recommend that. (Seriously though, read it.)
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May 15, 2011 04:09
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Sequitur posted:I spent literally all of today reading Name of the Wind, I find myself reading slowing because I almost don't want to finish my story. I'm looking forward to reading Wise Man, Well, if you want to read a fantasy series with an unreliable narrator that's actually good, check out Gene Wolfe's "Book of the New Sun."
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May 15, 2011 04:39
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I'm about halfway through the audiobook version and I don't get it. Is Rothfuss intentionally writing Kvothe as an entirely unlikable oval office?
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May 15, 2011 07:48
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A lot of people in this thread seem to think so but signs point to no. Looking at his blog it becomes apparent that Patrick Rothfuss is just a weirdo.
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May 15, 2011 14:17
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Rothfuss went on some super creepy rant about how male circumcision is morally the worst thing in the world on his blog. I get the feeling he's a creep in real life, and it definitely shows in his writing. Joe Abercrombie and Steven Erikson are pretty well-adjusted and normal guys though, so it's not like it's the purview of fantasy authors to be weirdos.
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May 15, 2011 15:32
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I've met him twice. He's amiable enough. Pretty weird. Don't know if there is much else to say about him. He's kind of like the friend you roll your eyes at a lot but hold no ill will towards.
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May 15, 2011 17:46
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I just finished The Wise Man's Fear - Kvothe is far less smug throughout, which was great because I loving hated him in the first book and couldn't tolerate him at all without Zapp Brannigan's voice in my head. But it was such an about turn for his character with no real explanation that it came off a bit jarring for me. Like Rothfuss has heard the complaints and just changed Kvothe without any context as to why he's different. It was a bit weird, but I was willing to overlook it because hey, less  . Not that he didn't still come off smug or anything, he definitely had his moments. I just wasn't rolling my eyes constantly like I did during the first book. Probably my favourite part was Felurian's Faerie sex school, because it was just hilarious and weird. Now I will never shake the idea that Rothfuss thinks having sex is like playing Street Fighter, where if you use the correct special move you will cause your opponent to have a bangin' orgasm instead of knocking them unconscious. The rhyming couplet poo poo he tries out with Denna and Felurian was loving excruciatingly bad and while I found it very funny, he really ought to stop doing it and/or get a decent editor who will tell him when he writes utter bollocks. I liked the stuff about the Cthaeh, that was pretty interesting, there was some character development for the more minor players (especially Denna, who is still boring but less "she is a deer, a shy deer" type dreck can only be a good thing). The argument where Kvothe immediately went to call her a whore took us back into creepy manchild territory, sadly. Despite this and the fact that we went over tons of stuff from the first book (money woes, bloo bloo I love Denna, Ambrose is a dick, Auri is still Luna Lovegood) it was oddly enjoyable. The second instalment confirms that it's very firmly in guilty pleasure territory for me, though. Rothfuss writes as though he spends his whole life on the internet. Penfold the Brave fucked around with this message at 18:37 on May 19, 2011 |
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May 19, 2011 18:29
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Penfold the Brave posted:Rothfuss writes as though he spends his whole life on the internet.
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May 19, 2011 18:54
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Finished the book a few hours ago. I loved it, but it still has it flaws. Sometimes the story progresses terribly slow, then suddenly Rothfuss decides to just skip ahead the story by a few days, weeks or months. I was genuinely sad when Kvothe left the Adem. The next part was complete bullshit though, at what point did Kvothe become a hostile bastard who liked to murder people? You'd think he just learned to control his inner anger with all the experience he gained. Anyway, it's a long wait for the final part I'm afraid. Are there any books like this that are worth the time?
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May 19, 2011 20:21
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Grawl posted:at what point did Kvothe become a hostile bastard who liked to murder people? You'd think he just learned to control his inner anger with all the experience he gained. I think that had less to do with his inner anger than it did with those particular people and what they were doing.
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May 19, 2011 20:30
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I enjoyed him using his new-found prowess to break a guy's arm because he said a mean thing. Then the whole town lined up to say "You did the right thing by breaking that guy's arm. He a dick." I mean, that was real "I took out my katana and those bullies burst into tears" inner fantasy stuff.
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May 19, 2011 22:11
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Evfedu posted:I enjoyed him using his new-found prowess to break a guy's arm because he said a mean thing. Then the whole town lined up to say "You did the right thing by breaking that guy's arm. He a dick." I mean, that was real "I took out my katana and those bullies burst into tears" inner fantasy stuff.
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May 19, 2011 22:17
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Grawl posted:at what point did Kvothe become a hostile bastard who liked to murder people?
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May 19, 2011 22:20
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It just seemed like a standard adolescent male wish fulfillment scenario: massacre the bad guys, rescue the maidens fair, hell he even managed to cure a case of PTSD catatonia within a couple hours! Personally I thought the passage would have proven much more powerful if it turned out that the band actually were Edema Ruh. As it was the event wrapped up too nicely, with Kvothe basically being able to say MY PEOPLE would never do something like this, they must be brigands in disguise, which of course they were. Him having to confront the fact that any humans can turn into monsters, even his own people, and then having to apply his adolescent retribution to them would have been much more powerful in my opinion.
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May 19, 2011 22:30
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Yeah, as you say that that would have been pretty cool. The parts that interest me in his story (and maybe this is just me) are the parts where something relatively unremarkable that Kvothe does turns into something grand and legendary in the retelling. Slaughtering a bunch of unprepared and poisoned bandits based on personal knowledge of his people isn't incredibly noteworthy, but it helps shape his legend. But, if he'd done it wrongly (though no one else might find out he was wrong but him and the reader) then that exploit, which actually should have been a source of shame, would have even more import when added to his tally. Of course, that would ruin Rothfuss's "noble poor people" thing that he's going for which would be a problem. This also might be why Felurian bothered me so much. It's one thing for him to go to a magical faerie world. It's even one thing for him to battle with one and win (since the part of his legend where he can name things instinctively is actually not bullshit). But for it to actually be a kickass adventure that makes him look like a champ cheapens the book for me. He's not actually supposed to be much of a badass, he's just supposed to look like one. The Adem stuff doesn't bother me so much (beyond the sex poo poo) because there it's clear that he actually still basically blows in comparison to all of them, though to the rest of the world he looks baller afterwards, which is again the stuff that I like.
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May 19, 2011 22:39
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keiran_helcyan posted:It just seemed like a standard adolescent male wish fulfillment scenario: massacre the bad guys, rescue the maidens fair, hell he even managed to cure a case of PTSD catatonia within a couple hours! It's even better than that - it's the classic benevolent hero adolescent male wish fulfullment scenario, because he doesn't even slip the rescued maidens any penis.
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May 19, 2011 22:58
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Sophia posted:He's not actually supposed to be much of a badass, he's just supposed to look like one. Meh, says you. I'm still not sure just WHAT he's supposed to be. I don't know why I keep coming back to this thread. This is one set of books where so much of the chasing theories just seems too farfetched and assumptive for me. Like the ASOIAF series, that one I can talk about theories forever. Because so many of them seem very plausible and very grounded in the story. In this one, every theory about what's REALLY going on in "present day" in the books and how he gets from the past to that point -- it's such giant leaps from what is actually provided in the books and what the readers are hoping will be the truth of it at the end.
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May 30, 2011 10:39
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Sophia posted:He's not actually supposed to be much of a badass, he's just supposed to look like one.
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May 31, 2011 08:44
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Habibi posted:It's even better than that - it's the classic benevolent hero adolescent male wish fulfullment scenario, because he doesn't even slip the rescued maidens any penis. I think the implication was that he could ay any time, but it keeps with the whole 'good&noble' persona he has going. Based on the end of Wise Man's Fear I think that the stories about his early life were where he had the luxury of being noble/kind. It's fading fast, given that he poisoned and then slaughtered an entire group of people, even though they were pretty bad. The scene where he murdered the poo poo out of the bandits with magic is looking to define his adult life. Kvothe even stops the story before it goes downhill, so I'm assuming that after getting expelled, things get bad for him and he does reprehensible things to stay alive/save people.
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Jun 6, 2011 04:39
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Having re-read Wise Man's Fear, and having just read through the majority of the thread, I've found a theory behind why Kvothe has lost the ability to speak names. Kvothe spoke to Elodin about changing names of things, and Elodin began to panic. It's my belief that Kvothe tried to/did change his own name, and as a result, his powers deserted him.
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Jun 6, 2011 15:56
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Apologies if this has been posted in this thread and I missed it, but fantasy author Jo Walton has been doing an extremely detailed re-read of The Name of the Wind and Wise Man's Fear over at tor, and there's a lot of useful speculation in the posts and comments. The index is here: http://www.tor.com/features/series/patrick-rothfuss-reread
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Jun 6, 2011 18:12
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Finished WMF a few days ago. Decent book overall, even though it left me with the feeling that nothing of worth really happened. It's like Rothfuss had a bunch of stories about Kvothe to get through, and just stitched them together. Kvothe and the Sick Maer -> Kvothe and the Bandits -> Kvothe and the Sexpicsie -> Kvothe and the Autistic Ninjas. with the most tenuous link between them. Still, there were some pretty wonderful scenes, like Kvothe telling Auri about how he could sing before he could speak or anything with Elodin at all. Also, what the hell is with Rothfuss and using poo poo like "beaten like a red-headed stepchild" in a book like this? There was something else near the end of the book as well; some phrase that was funny early in highschool which I think PR has just learned recently and thinks is the height of hilarity. I know he can write his own funny turns of phrase ("a man in his mercenary reds looked at me as if he had just seen me wipe my rear end with a piece of bread and eat it", Wil's facebear, etc) why does he have to resort to tired old phrases like this that jar you out of the story? Some questions from this here thread: - Someone mentioned that Kvothe gave Auri her true name, and she gave him a ring of air? When did this happen? - Where was the mention of the weaknesses of the Chandrian? All there was in this book was that rhyme telling their names, nothing about their weaknesses. - I'm loving the speculation here. I though I was super clever by working out the constant references to how far Ambrose is from the throne and the Crown Prince dying is a guarantee that Ambo is the titular King that gets killed. - Does Kvothe know about Bast's attempts to fix him, to the point of threatening Chronicler? At one point Bast outright says that he owns Chronicler, and he'll write whatever Bast tells him to, but Kvothe never calls him out on it at all. Also: Old Kung-fu lady: "This is your secret name and it has three meanings and you must not tell it to anyone EVER." *opens introduction to his story by explaining each meaning of his secret name*
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Jun 23, 2011 04:57
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Meningism posted:
We don't see Kvothe give Auri her name but we learn that he did when Kvothe goes to see her and Elodin shows up. Elodin didn't know she had a name and Kvothe realizes that he didn't either, he just started calling her Auri without ever really thinking about it. Elodin sees this as a demonstration of Kvothe's naming potential and invites him to his special class. I think the ring of air was a gift in one of the first meetings we see in NotW, but the end of WMF makes it seem like Kvothe also made his own.
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Jun 23, 2011 15:54
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I think one interesting tidbit I just noticed at the beginning of The Wise Man's Fear is that Kvothe eventually learns ten names corresponding to his ten rings
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Jun 28, 2011 18:09
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I just read the entire thread. I finished WMF last night at about 1am, and have been taking a few mental notes while reading this thread. My first comment is this (and I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet): do the Amyr strike anyone as having a similar storyline to the Knights Templar? Maybe I'm just getting my streams crossed because I read Foucault's Pendulum a couple months back. They were a religious order, and then were disbanded. Nothing but stories of them remain, not facts. The Ferulian scenes I just  at. I really was hoping for a fantasy novel without awkward sex as there wasn't much of it in the first just awkward situations with Denna, but nope.I never thought of Bredon as Ash or Kvothe's mother as the lost Lackless. If Ash = Bredon, why would he want Denna to be with all those men? What would she be trying to help them with if that was what the Amyr did? Also, does Bredon know that Kvothe is the person that Denna has mentioned? Could the silver ring he used in Severene mean more than just he's an equal? Also, why did Kvothe start laughing on the floor after he got the poo poo beat out of him? Later Bast says he had figured it out and the soldiers had take the correct bottle of wine, Elderberry? I didn't have much of a problem with the Adem scenes, to be honest. I really enjoyed when he called the wind to walk through the leaves and again when he used it to still the tree and walked out. I'm sure I've forgotten something I wanted to mention. Overall I enjoyed the pace and the fun scenes. Kvothe came off as God's gift to women and even more of a rear end in a top hat this time around in my opinion. I'll read the third book, and hope that a lot of the loose ends can be tied up without being rushed. However, that thought seems to lead towards a 5000 page tome.
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Jul 9, 2011 18:47
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pakman posted:My first comment is this (and I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet): do the Amyr strike anyone as having a similar storyline to the Knights Templar? Maybe I'm just getting my streams crossed because I read Foucault's Pendulum a couple months back. They were a religious order, and then were disbanded. Nothing but stories of them remain, not facts. First, yes, I think it's very intentional. Second, it's been made clear that the Amyr aren't exactly good. They may be working for the greater good, but their methods are suspect at best. Any of the small local events they were involved in wouldn't be considered good, like murdering/experimenting on thousands of people to learn human anatomy. Third, as we don't know exactly who Bredon is it's hard to say what exactly is going on between Kvothe and him. Fourth, as far as I could tell he was just laughing at himself for forgetting that he's Kote now.
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Jul 9, 2011 21:04
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pakman posted:Also, why did Kvothe start laughing on the floor after he got the poo poo beat out of him? Later Bast says he had figured it out and the soldiers had take the correct bottle of wine, Elderberry? Because Bast likes elderberry. He realized that bast sent them (to make him act like old Kvothe and go house). I don't understand all the hate on this book and Kvothe especially. He's a trickster hero, like Odysseus (who is a way, way bigger bastard than Kvothe). It seems like the complaints about the book are from readers who don't like not knowing who is good and who is evil, which is a valid complaint if you expected to read a standard fantasy novel that follows the good vs evil theme and reluctant hero archetype. After all, the overarching theme of both books is Public Perception VS Truth. Kvothe and Chronicler are on either side of that contest and are both defined by it. Bast's big problem with Kvothe being an innkeeper is he says believes if he wears that mask too long, it will become his true face. That's why I think Denna's patron is or is working for Haliax, to make a song that will make Lanre remembered as a hero instead of a villian. Other Public Perception vs Truth things I can remember: The guy in the demon mask who helps Kvothe after the guard beats him senseless. The Amyr being remembered as evil when they were actually truly good. (Though still monsters). The Amyr and the Chandrian are both extremely sensitive of their public opinion, and have gone to extreme measures to control it. The Draccus is a herbivore. poo poo, I can't remember a lot of them. There were tons of little sneaky ones in the first book, like the demon mask guy.
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Jul 12, 2011 22:42
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Robot Karnov posted:Because Bast likes elderberry. He realized that bast sent them (to make him act like old Kvothe and go house). quote:I don't understand all the hate on this book and Kvothe especially. He's a trickster hero, like Odysseus (who is a way, way bigger bastard than Kvothe). - WMF is a 1000 pages of very little story movement. - Several storylines read like fanfic (Felurian). - The manner in which relationships, whether romantic or friendly, are handled is adolescent at best. - Kvothe being this brilliant guy who is great at everything but somehow has the decision making capabilities of a 3 year old Rothfuss came up with a good story, and NotW was a very good book, but WMF had a number of really serious flaws that just turned a lot of readers off.
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Jul 13, 2011 19:06
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