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Looking around, some Europeans did have access to Japan before Perry, namely the Portuguese for a brief time. Whether they decided to duel some random Japanese guys, I have no idea and guess it sounds like something from a fantasy novel.
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May 17, 2011 02:43
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mewse posted:European duels were generally to the death weren't they? Honestly dueling has been soo romantacized about that I can't say for certain without really digging through sources. I think it varied from time period to time period, particularly on how much the groups hated one another and what exactly was at stake. Also the whole romanticizing thing especially applies to the samurai, so one has to be very careful as to what is said vs. historical facts. I'm kind of tempted to start taking up fencing lessons again... Senor P. fucked around with this message at 02:54 on May 17, 2011 |
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May 17, 2011 02:44
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I'm talking out of my rear end here so somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think samurai were largely an administrative class. There were no doubt some badass swordsmen among them, but it's not like every single one was born and bred to be a killing machine. Europeans, on the other hand, were angry dandies who loved stabbing each other over imagined slights and avenging each other. Duelling could've been a bigger part of western culture than eastern culture, I don't know.
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May 17, 2011 04:12
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When I think of a European vs samurai duel, I picture the European just taking out a firearm and shooting the samurai.
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May 17, 2011 04:31
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Zettace posted:When I think of a European vs samurai duel, I picture the European just taking out a firearm and shooting the samurai. That's kinda the history of Japan in a nutshell
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May 17, 2011 04:47
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Gaz2k21 posted:Most of my friends know I train and still don't get why as I'm not a particularly violent or aggressive, this obviously meant alot of joking around and drunk friends throwing light punches at me or trying to wrestle me I just take it with a grain of salt... Next time that happens you should do a take down, go to mount and start licking said friend in the face. Use plenty of saliva. I guarantee it will never happen again.
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May 17, 2011 05:51
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I just call what I do advanced cuddling with my bros so that I avoid the conversations with that guy about how he is a totally bad rear end fighter and such.
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May 17, 2011 06:27
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tarepanda posted:I'm not really sure where you're going with this thought experiment, though... it really sounds like "What's better: fencing, kendo, or FMA?" I'd just like to get a sense of how the different training would influence their tactics. I think I mostly got what I was asking for kendo, but was hoping to hear more about FMA. My thinking there was that, if there were no breaks between points scored, someone who did FMA might be able to get in close and land combination strikes. Cross armed sparring is just interesting to me, I guess. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GHi4r7Y66Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFGPCTMp2cw
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May 17, 2011 09:17
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tarepanda and z0331, I don't suppose either of you know anything about juukendou? I know it's rare as hell but I'm pretty interested in it. Realistically, considering how rare it is and that I don't have any kendo or other applicable experience I doubt I'll ever have a chance to do it but I'm interested in hearing if you guys know anything.
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May 17, 2011 12:52
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kimbo305 posted:I'd just like to get a sense of how the different training would influence their tactics. I think I mostly got what I was asking for kendo, but was hoping to hear more about FMA. My thinking there was that, if there were no breaks between points scored, someone who did FMA might be able to get in close and land combination strikes. I'd probably agree with what most of the others have said - kendo would likely suffer extremely hard from being so limited. Whether the fencer or FMA guy would have the advantage would probably depend on several things you didn't specify - how hard/long you have to hit someone for it to count, whether you immediately stop scoring and reset as soon as a point is scored, whether you have the right-of-way concept, and how big the combat area is. One thing olympic fencers tend to have a problem with is that since their fencing is done in such a long, thin strip, they're not very used to sidestepping or turning, so if you start circling them their footwork suffers. e: Additionally, it would depend on whether the fencer in question specialized in foil, epee or sabre, since they all have various extra restrictions in their rules such as sabre competitors not being allowed to cross feet in a movement (switching front and back foot) or foil and epee fighters being unused to cutting or slashing attacks since they're exclusively thrusting weapons. Sethur fucked around with this message at 13:16 on May 17, 2011 |
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May 17, 2011 13:05
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I miss the old thread 
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May 17, 2011 15:53
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quote:If you want practical sword fighting: Although I don't think that goofy "MMA with weapons" scenario was meant to be realistic. It's just too bad gladiator fights can't be brought back. It would probably not be that much more dangerous than football.
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May 17, 2011 16:03
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Adolfo Castro posted:I miss the old thread  sorry, Adolfo.Sethur posted:I'd probably agree with what most of the others have said - kendo would likely suffer extremely hard from being so limited. Whether the fencer or FMA guy would have the advantage would probably depend on several things you didn't specify - how hard/long you have to hit someone for it to count, whether you immediately stop scoring and reset as soon as a point is scored, whether you have the right-of-way concept, and how big the combat area is. One thing olympic fencers tend to have a problem with is that since their fencing is done in such a long, thin strip, they're not very used to sidestepping or turning, so if you start circling them their footwork suffers. With electric scoring and no resets, you could try to do lots of cheesy things to rack up points. Countered by the real threat of getting hurt, since full power is allowed. In that kendo(?) vs stick exhibition, it looks pretty much like the equivalent of a jabbing exchange in terms of technique used. And probably as should be expected, given the consequence of leaving a hand or leg hanging in range. I really wanted to hear about how FMA reduces risk and traps the attacking arm, but let's leave this swordfighting chat alone.
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May 17, 2011 16:14
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LimburgLimbo posted:tarepanda and z0331, I don't suppose either of you know anything about juukendou? I know it's rare as hell but I'm pretty interested in it. Realistically, considering how rare it is and that I don't have any kendo or other applicable experience I doubt I'll ever have a chance to do it but I'm interested in hearing if you guys know anything. I saw it once. Despite the name, it's not really related to kendo at all. It's probably closer to naginata than anything else, given the nature of the weapon. Very, very niche.
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May 17, 2011 19:37
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LimburgLimbo posted:tarepanda and z0331, I don't suppose either of you know anything about juukendou? I know it's rare as hell but I'm pretty interested in it. Realistically, considering how rare it is and that I don't have any kendo or other applicable experience I doubt I'll ever have a chance to do it but I'm interested in hearing if you guys know anything. That's the bayonet one, right? I actually think Rutgers has some people that do it. Or they did a few years ago. I was there for a Kendo tourney and saw some guys with the fake rifles. Japanese military practices it. On the news I saw this event they did where they had to run through simulated hallways/trenches and then they met in a room and basically the first one to stab the other guy won. It was kind of weird.
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May 17, 2011 23:29
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LimburgLimbo posted:tarepanda and z0331, I don't suppose either of you know anything about juukendou? I know it's rare as hell but I'm pretty interested in it. Realistically, considering how rare it is and that I don't have any kendo or other applicable experience I doubt I'll ever have a chance to do it but I'm interested in hearing if you guys know anything. If you really want to do it. I would suggest either contacting the folks at koryu.com or making a thread in the appropiate section of e-budo. They will be able to point you in the right direction. Senor P. fucked around with this message at 02:06 on May 18, 2011 |
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May 18, 2011 01:52
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gently caress I love triangling people. I know it's not the first time I say it but, I really don't understand how I could cope with life before I started doing judo. edit : For all those weapon talks, in my mind shield and sword beats everything 
KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 03:30 on May 18, 2011 |
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May 18, 2011 03:12
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Adolfo Castro posted:I miss the old thread
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May 18, 2011 03:33
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I've been training Muay Thai for about 9 months at a backyard gym in San Pedro and the trainer is looking for more students so he can open a real gym. If anyone in the Los Angeles area is interested in affordable Muay Thai training hit me up at ecripley @ gmail.com and I can give you the details.
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May 18, 2011 05:03
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KingColliwog posted:gently caress I love triangling people. Ughhh, I remember when I used to say this. It's a good thing we have a new thread. Somewhere along the way I've completely lost my triangle. I think it's stuck in some kind of failed ryan hall technique.
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May 18, 2011 05:04
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I love triangles too! Squeeee! I often hit a triangle on someone who's trying to pass my guard, but I don't always execute them well enough, so sometimes I'll be incapable of finishing from there. I've been working on moving from a triangle to an armbar, and I've had some real success with this, since sometime the guy'll be so focused on defending the triangle he won't always expect the armbar. Pity my armbars suck so much.
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May 18, 2011 05:16
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ManicParroT posted:I love triangles too! Squeeee! That is basically what I've had to do. I can get the position plenty, it's finishing it I struggle with. I've turned it into either armbars, or even more commonally, a mounted triangle. I seem to have a high percentage on that, for some reason.
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May 18, 2011 05:54
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Bohemian Nights posted:That is basically what I've had to do. I can get the position plenty, it's finishing it I struggle with. I've turned it into either armbars, or even more commonally, a mounted triangle. I seem to have a high percentage on that, for some reason. Have any video of the switch between the triangle and armbar? When I try to switch it's always a big fail for me. What really helped me getting a better triangle is switching to the side more. Now I will usually grab the leg of the person I'm triangling to get the good angle and keep them from running away too much. I do sometime end up in a mounted triangle, but I like those too! But hey, I'm against judokas who sometime make the-worst-pass TM where they basically give me a triangle. Anyway, I really worked hard to get an ok triangle. I've been doing that thing for the past two years every chance I get and I've only been starting to catch a lot of people in it 2 months ago or so but I'm a huge streak. Let's hope they never learn how to defend against it!
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May 18, 2011 12:53
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I just found this series on youtube, maybe it's been posted before, but this is beautiful muay thai training right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PNtUPO0RGs edit: it's 1 of 5, if you have the time watcht he whole thing, it's worth it
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May 18, 2011 14:45
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Nierbo posted:The Aikido thread is where the action is at the moment. Huh? Link?
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May 18, 2011 15:33
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Xguard86 posted:Huh? I think he's refering to this one (aikido to zoo-jitsu). My shoulder is still buggered. Heading to doctor today, haven't been able to roll much in the last 2-3 weeks. Wondering whether to do a comp this saturday. I'd need to tap the second somebody has a cross face on me, which isn't great.
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May 19, 2011 00:13
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Xguard86 posted:Huh?
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May 19, 2011 01:34
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KingColliwog posted:But hey, I'm against judokas who sometime make the-worst-pass TM where they basically give me a triangle. My best guard pass is to bait people into trying a triangle and shucking their leg over my shoulder and doing a collar choke while I have them stacked up. Once I got the timing down I became very, very, very successful at this. Nobody can resist a free triangle.
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May 19, 2011 02:03
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Thoguh posted:My best guard pass is to bait people into trying a triangle and shucking their leg over my shoulder and doing a collar choke while I have them stacked up. Once I got the timing down I became very, very, very successful at this. Nobody can resist a free triangle. My buddy tinkered with something like this back in our white belt days. A few years later I scoped him at a NAGA tourney doing it to perfection. His twist was feeding an arm deeply like he was going for a collar choke but was opening himself up for an armbar.
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May 19, 2011 06:00
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Is anyone here into Sambo? I'm really interested in it despite my lack of any wrestling background but I'd love to hear some more about it. I'd be interested in "competitive" Sambo too, although I wouldn't really have the opportunity to get into too heavily until I am finished with school (my university is in bumfuck nowhere). Would the rest of this summer be enough time to take like a few intro courses or something and get into it if it is something I enjoy? I've also looked at Krav Maga, and I'd appreciate hearing about that too from anyone that does it. I see a lot of classes offered around town for it, generally in terms of some self defense course or "boot camp" thing, is Krav Maga something where the basics can be grasped decently in such a short time period? Or are all of those classes and workshops gimmicks? Finally, is there some database that would give me an idea of what gyms / dojos or whatever they are called are in my area and which ones are worth my time and money? Martial arts seems like a moderately expensive hobby and I don't want to get involved with those gyms where you are getting crappy training and constantly paying out the nose for new belts and uniforms and poo poo.
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May 19, 2011 06:33
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Don't worry about not having any wrestling skills. The best way to develop them is to get wrestled on by people who know better. You'll learn from your mistakes and pick up their tricks and it comes together after a while. "I want to get in shape/learn a thing/practice X first/don't know how to do Y" are the biggest excuses people throw up for not training a martial art they think they like. Just jump in and get started. You'll learn what you need to as you progress. I think the general rule for any martial art is that you should expect to get beaten by everybody you train with for the first 12 months or so unless some newbies show up for you to beat on. If you try out sambo and really enjoy it, stick with it, but you won't really be very competitive in the first 6-12 months if you don't have some sort of other background. That doesn't mean it won't be all sorts of fun though. If you can't find any sambo places, look into judo, bjj or wrestling instead. Sambo includes little bits of all of them. I get destroyed daily at BJJ training, but I still enjoy it more than any other physical activity I've ever done. The important thing about learning this sort of thing is consistency. Even if you can only go once a week, do that. You won't learn as fast as the guys who go 4-6 times a week, but if you're consistent with your attendance you will improve and feel good. Smegmatron fucked around with this message at 07:00 on May 19, 2011 |
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May 19, 2011 06:57
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AbdominalSnowman posted:Is anyone here into Sambo? I'm really interested in it despite my lack of any wrestling background but I'd love to hear some more about it. I'd be interested in "competitive" Sambo too, although I wouldn't really have the opportunity to get into too heavily until I am finished with school (my university is in bumfuck nowhere). Would the rest of this summer be enough time to take like a few intro courses or something and get into it if it is something I enjoy? For the first two you shouldn't put off starting a class because you might not be good with it or might not love it right off the bat. There's no experience you can gain from a solid course that isn't beneficial. Most people know we all start from somewhere and it'll give you a good idea if you want to pursue something more competitive when you leave college. Krav Maga is more street and survival based stuff, it's a mix of different technique from a myriad of martial arts, it can be fun doing the knife defense and other kinds of weapons defense training and it might at least teach you to throw a decent punch or learn a decent throw you could use in a pinch should the need arise but you've got to decide what you want to do. Do you want to do martial arts for the social aspect, do you want to do it for the physical training? Do you want to compete? Do you want to be safer walking down the street? Sounds like from Sambo and Krav Maga you want to learn more survival / self defense type stuff, but be a little more weary with KM some places I've done workshops it can range from useful to completely stupid almost like that scene in Napoleon Dynamite when he's saying "grab my arm, the other arm, YOU'RE OTHER ARM" to show a technique, when running or throwing a punch would be infinitely more applicable. Go forth and take advantage of the "free introductory lesson" most places have and pick which ever one you had the most fun with. If people are douchebags, you feel under un-fair pressure or simply have no fun, try something else. When I started I wanted to do MMA type training, couldn't find anywhere close to decent so I went and did Wing Chun, which lead me to meet a good MT instructor which lead to a good BJJ instructor. I've been to just about every style and class in my local area and stuck with what I enjoyed till I found something better. Try anything, try everything and decide what you want to learn. People rag on a lot of styles in these threads and they have a point to an extent. But if you just want to have some fun and learn some traditional art you can't go wrong trying something once or twice. I'd never want to use Wing Chun in a ring or sparring for MT but it was fun at the time and got me thinking about martial arts more and more.
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May 19, 2011 07:03
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AbdominalSnowman posted:Is anyone here into Sambo? I'm really interested in it despite my lack of any wrestling background but I'd love to hear some more about it. I'd be interested in "competitive" Sambo too, although I wouldn't really have the opportunity to get into too heavily until I am finished with school (my university is in bumfuck nowhere). Would the rest of this summer be enough time to take like a few intro courses or something and get into it if it is something I enjoy? A lot of it will depend on the school and coach. Sambo is an interesting mix of grappling and throws. I went to a gym whose main coach was terrible at teaching but insane skillwise. He could effortlessly trip you into leg locks and make you realize how dangerous those techniques could be. I wish he had been a better teacher and had more class organization. With good instruction, you could get something that's a functional grappling art with some of the characteristics of BJJ and Judo, but still different.
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May 19, 2011 07:17
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HATE MONDAYS posted:i think i made a new best friend in kickboxing today This is going to be me in a few days. I'm gonna start training only in muay thai after only boxing for a few years. I've trained muay thai total for like 2 months so far in my "training career"... gonna have swollen legs soon.
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May 19, 2011 08:44
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AbdominalSnowman posted:Is anyone here into Sambo? I'm really interested in it despite my lack of any wrestling background but I'd love to hear some more about it. I'd be interested in "competitive" Sambo too, although I wouldn't really have the opportunity to get into too heavily until I am finished with school (my university is in bumfuck nowhere). Would the rest of this summer be enough time to take like a few intro courses or something and get into it if it is something I enjoy? Sambo guy here. You probably won't find too many sambo McDojos, just because sambo has virtually no name recognition so someone looking to make a buck with subpar training most likely won't call their place a sambo gym. Take a look here for a list of legit sambo gyms: http://www.ussambo.com/sambo_school_nat_asa_members.html Sambo doesn't have any formal belt system. Well, we do, there's a red and a blue belt, but that's just so the referee and scorekeepers can tell you apart.  Individual schools might have their own ranking system to give students a sense of their progression, but most don't.Sambo and Krav are really different. Obviously, sambo is a sport and Krav isn't, but even when you look at the combatives side -- remember, sambo was originally developed as a combatives curriculum for the Red Army, and adapted to sport later -- they are very different. Sambo focuses more on things like fundamentals of movement and defense and protecting vital areas of your body as you engage the person or escape. Krav is about counter-attack, disarming, fighting multiple attackers, and things like that. I personally prefer the sambo approach, since it's more practical for me and less focused on "well here's what you do in a situation where you're going to die 99% of the time". Also keep in mind that good Krav Maga instruction outside of the IDF is virtually nonexistent. There is no martial art where the basics can be "grasped decently" in a short amount of time such that it would actually help you. It's all about internalizing the movements until they become second nature, tons of repetition, and lots and lots of sparring. The only way you can ever really become proficient at any concept or technique is to use it in sparring against a resisting opponent. That's why aikido doesn't work. Anything that claims to teach you actually useful self-defense skills in a few days or weeks and isn't called "how to buy running shoes that fit" is bullshit. Even if the techniques are sound, showing them to people who won't then practice them for a few months is just setting them up to get stabbed to death when they try to fight someone instead of run away. Let me know if you have any other questions about sambo.
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May 19, 2011 14:32
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What's the consensus on Tony Cecchine? Is he legitimate or not? Don't know of any students of his that are known in the competitive MMA or Grappling world. I know he claims that he trained under Lou Thez, but then I remember how Matt Furey also claimed that Karl Gotch trained him until Karl Gotch himself went, "Bullshit he trained under me."
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May 19, 2011 16:06
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Mechafunkzilla posted:There is no martial art where the basics can be "grasped decently" in a short amount of time such that it would actually help you. It's all about internalizing the movements until they become second nature, tons of repetition, and lots and lots of sparring. The only way you can ever really become proficient at any concept or technique is to use it in sparring against a resisting opponent. That's why many martial arts don't work. Anything that claims to teach you actually useful self-defense skills in a few days or weeks and isn't called "how to buy running shoes that fit" is bullshit. Even if the techniques are sound, showing them to people who won't practice them for a few months is just setting them up to get stabbed to death when they try to fight someone instead of run away. I'm putting this in the OP because I think it does a great job of addressing a big misconception. I hate those "women self defense seminars" and "executive defense training" classes for exactly this reason. A few years ago my friend once asked: "why do you still do jiu-jitsu, it's been like 2 years, don't you know everything?". I don't know how to even start answering that. Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 16:38 on May 19, 2011 |
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May 19, 2011 16:08
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Posting this from the grappling thread since I hear i'll get a better response here! So my finances are starting to get a bit tight and I won't be able to attend the kickboxing gym i've been going to for the past year since moving to the state . I come from a six year BJJ background and I really prefer grappling to being punched, and we have a pretty nice local Judo club that seems to both be cheap and ran by our state USJF guy here in Fayetteville. Would Judo be right for me? Also, would any of my habits and learned techniques from BJJ hinder me, and is there anything I should try and be mindful of in that regard?
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May 19, 2011 17:04
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KryonikMessiah posted:Would Judo be right for me? Also, would any of my habits and learned techniques from BJJ hinder me, and is there anything I should try and be mindful of in that regard? You'll have to break some habits like having a different stance for stand-up and getting used to different scoring rules on the ground, but nothing huge. For me the transition from Wrestling to Judo and then from Judo to BJJ was mainly just a case of learning how to alter my techniques and strategies for the different rulesets.
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May 19, 2011 17:21
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Xguard86 posted:I'm putting this in the OP because I think it does a great job of addressing a big misconception. I hate those "women self defense seminars" and "executive defense training" classes for exactly this reason. Just make a sports analogy. If you play basketball for two years and know the mechanics of how to do every type of shot, crossover, and pass, it doesn't mean you've gotten as good as you can get at them, be able to do them consistently in a game, or that you won't pick up new moves and get better as you continue to play.
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May 19, 2011 18:26
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