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nolen posted:I've never come home to an accident, actually. They have always been when we are home and the last few times have all been directly in front of me/us. What kind of signal does your dog have for wanting to go out? Do you always stick rigidly to the schedule or does your dog ever request to go out at different times? Are the incidents occurring at the same general time of day? My dog randomly decided to pee on my papasan  last week after months of no problems. She was doing her little pawing at the material routine that usually means she's going to lay down, but she peed instead. I have no idea why, so I can imagine it would suck it if happened regularly. She had been out less than a hour before that and she rings a bell to go out, so it was pretty inexplicable. Maybe a behaviorist is the way to go if you can't pinpoint a reason (be sure to tell us what he/she says).
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May 17, 2011 21:03
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ilikechapstick posted:I just want to say that I've learned so much from reading this thread. Thanks for that. That crate looks about right for you. I like the ones with dividers since their size is so flexible. Honestly, if the pup ever grows out of it (which I don't think he would) you can pick up crates for pretty cheap from Craigslist -- people are always selling them second-hand. Re: a puppy driving, it's not that bad as long as there are plenty of bathroom breaks and opportunities to play and stretch some legs. Just make sure the pup has all its vaccinations (appropriate for age) and be very very careful what he's exposed to. No strange dogs, no areas lots of strange dogs frequent, etc. nolen posted:So my only option is to hire a dog-sitter or take her to doggie daycare? Quite honestly, I really do think that these accidents you're having are a direct result of the long amounts of time she has to hold it during the day. If you could have someone look in on her after ~6 hours and let her out for a pee I really think it would go miles to help. You could hire a dog walker, or if you have a friend who you trust in the area you could ask them too (heck, even a kid after school). That she's going in front of you is a good thing. It makes it easier to catch and train out. (You don't want her sneaking off to relieve herself.) I mentioned the crating and tethering because it's possible that her preference for going outside is being eroded by these accidents, so on top of allowing her more opportunities to pee, you'll make it so she doesn't have the opportunity to mess up. Angela Manaconda posted:I can't wait until next year, when I hopefully have a house and my dog can come and live with me. This always sucks. Bad habits are hard to break. But also, dogs will behave very differently for one person vs another, depending on their history of reinforcement with the individual. So, even if your parents are screwing up a bit, you can still have a dog who acts properly with you if you put in the time and effort.
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May 17, 2011 23:56
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a life less posted:This always sucks. Bad habits are hard to break. But also, dogs will behave very differently for one person vs another, depending on their history of reinforcement with the individual. So, even if your parents are screwing up a bit, you can still have a dog who acts properly with you if you put in the time and effort. Yeah, his manners are great with me, and it's pretty clear he's 'my' dog, but it's still lovely. :/ I'm just going to keep working with him when I visit home, I guess.
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May 18, 2011 00:13
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Anyone have any comments on my puppy traveling concern?quote:Another concern that I have is that my girlfriends mom is also getting a puppy from the same breeder. She wants to take the puppies to Ohio, about a 6-7 hour drive, to visit some of her family. This would be about 2 weeks after I get him. This concerns me, especially because they would be so young. Thoughts on this?
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May 18, 2011 21:52
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ilikechapstick posted:Anyone have any comments on my puppy traveling concern? In case you missed it: a life less posted:Re: a puppy driving, it's not that bad as long as there are plenty of bathroom breaks and opportunities to play and stretch some legs. Just make sure the pup has all its vaccinations (appropriate for age) and be very very careful what he's exposed to. No strange dogs, no areas lots of strange dogs frequent, etc.
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May 18, 2011 21:57
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I did. Thanks!
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May 18, 2011 22:02
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ilikechapstick posted:I did. Thanks! This is exactly what we did with our puppy when we got her. Plan out some good rest spots to stop off for potty breaks. Give the puppy a brief chance to eliminate, water and feed regularly at every stop (shoot for every 2 hours or more often). Probably a good idea to use a travel crate too. Put something that smells like home in there. If your breeder is wise, she should have asked you for an old shirt that smells like you about two weeks in advance. She'll dump it in the rearing area so they get used to your smell, and it'll come home with you and the puppy so it also still smells like home. Avoid music, if you have to have sound, try to listen to talk radio or something. If you do put on music, make sure it's pointed at you and keep it low. Keep your driving under control. No hard stops or swerving. Dog's going to be pretty anxious about leaving home, don't make it worse. All that said, it's not a huge deal, you'll be fine.
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May 19, 2011 14:55
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Guys...I've lost my patience, and am about to go off the deep end. Sagan just won't loving behave on the leash. It seemed to be getting a little better, but plateaued I guess, but now that its nice weather more people are out and about, and she's absolutely, goddamn, loving batshit insane. No amount of food distractions will keep her attention if something else is alive and existing within sight. I feel bad because when she goes off and I can't distract her and she acts like a rabid freak I want to smack her so bad, I don't...but god the urge is so powerful. I've inquired to a local daycare/training facility, but gently caress if they aren't the most expensive thing in the world. Any last minute advice before I waste my down-payment for a home on this rabid rear end wild loving wolf bitch. Why can't she be more like Cosmo? 
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May 20, 2011 23:22
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RizieN posted:Guys...I've lost my patience, and am about to go off the deep end. Welcome to my world. Now that it's summer and people are starting to walk their dogs again, every walk with Psyche is like a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. It's not a matter of IF something will set my dog to jumping, barking and biting, but when. We're finally moving out of our apartment complex by the end of the month to a more secluded place with a backyard (not fenced, unfortunately) and I've been using the rain as an excuse not to take her on long walks, because I just can't take the stress and she picks up on me being upset.My trainer noted the other day that I was less gungho about classes, taking it easy and slow. She thought it was because I was acclimatizing to my dog's moods and going easy when she needs it, but the truth is I just can't stand handling her freakouts right now. I think (hope) it will be better when we move. We've tried training and medication to bring down her stress level, so the only thing left to do is change the environment. She's made tons of progress, but learning to walk past 20 people doesn't matter much if there's always a 21st person standing there who will start approaching her or running or yelling or whatever. I read on here somewhere that stress hormones can take a week to get out of a dog's system...we rarely go six hours without a major freakout or two without her running at the windows. I guess there wasn't any advice there, just commiserating.
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May 21, 2011 00:02
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My 5 month old still jumps and pulls to go see other dogs or squirrels. What has helped me the most though is my skateboard. When she's moving faster she can't pull against me as much and we pass the distraction quicker so she forget's about it. The other thing that helps is she likes to run around in the gated front yard looking for cats in all the bushes. So sometimes letting her run around the front yard for a couple minutes first makes her calmer when we actually go on the walk. When should I get her fixed? She was born dec 18th and I was thinking of making an appointment for the first week of june.
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May 21, 2011 00:56
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RizieN posted:Guys...I've lost my patience, and am about to go off the deep end. Ah, the curse of the easy first dog, and the difficult second. First, you guys need to see a professional. Clearly this has elevated beyond your ability to manage her. Second, have you done any reading by trainers who are well versed in treating reactivity? If not, start here: Help for the Leash Reactive Dog, McConnell Click to Calm, Parsons Focus Not Fear, Brown Try working with her in unfamiliar environments, so she's less likely to automatically fall back on old habits while you're trying to train her. It would help for you to do some exercises that increase your value to her so you have an easier time getting her attention once she's reacted.
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May 21, 2011 12:13
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a life less posted:First, you guys need to see a professional. Clearly this has elevated beyond your ability to manage her. Might be good to look in to trainers/training clubs that usually work with GSDs. Even though she's (probably) mostly Malinios, their training methods/understanding are still the same. It's like how finding a trainer used to huskies can help with a malamute, or a trainer used to border collies can help with an aussie. GSD clubs are all over the place, too, so that might help you find a support group. Look for places that teach obedience & tracking, & even better if they actually do Schutzhund. It's not that you want to participate in the sport, but rather that the people that are invested in working dogs as opposed to just showing them are going to know how to teach you to manage a dog with more drive like that. Like a life less said, it's about breaking her focus and having her realize it's more rewarding to listen to you than it is to go off the deep end. Don't give up on her! I know it's super frustrating, but everyone hits setbacks in training, and you're definitely allowed to freak out a bit, but once you get back in to things, you can get back on track. 
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May 21, 2011 12:27
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Went on a forty minute (yeah I know, not long, but drat was Bailey tuckered out at the end) walk around the development and on a short trail and some roads near the apartment. There was a woman reading on the bench in the complex's dog park (read: dog toilet) and I asked her if he was okay in there and she said he was. I asked her, because she seemed interested and I want to socialize Bailey more, if she'd like to give him a treat. I told her he might like her to drop the treat, but drat Bailey was a champ. She held the treat out, talked to him, and he gently took the treat from her and walked away. Then we walked around, saw a few cars, and Bailey TURNED AND LOOKED AT ME FOR A TREAT. He's never done that before. We walked past an idling car and he looked at me, and it was just amazing. The only time he got close to being reactive was when a large car came by on a street we don't usually go down, and even then I managed to treat him and get him calm before he barked. I know its still early days yet, and this might just be a fluke, but it was amazing. It was a nice, calm walk where I got him to respond to commands, be less reactive, and meet a new person.
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May 21, 2011 17:04
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Yea, its so hit or miss. Just now we went on a long walk and she only grumbled once. She used to look at me for treats but kind of stopped. I have done bits of reading, but not those particular ones. I've already shot out some emails to trainers, but I think I will look into a GSD specific club. Like now I don't feel as angry as I did when I made that post, but every so often she just goes hog wild and its like we're back to square one, but then like just now she was fine and it was a pleasant stroll through the neighborhood... Oh well, guess I'll buy some xanax and persevere, hopefully the trainer doesn't destroy my wallet.
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May 21, 2011 19:03
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I need a little training advice: I recently adopted a miniature schnauzer named Erik, and I'm having a lot of trouble finding something to motivate him. He's bonded to me pretty well and follows me when we're indoors, I've never inflicted any punishment on him, he understands (perhaps too well!) that Food Comes From Me, but he simply will not approach me to take a treat. If I put a treat on the floor and wait long enough (sometimes more than a minute) he'll eventually come over and take it. I can get him to go into his crate to obtain a treat but again, he waits a long time before he'll come and take it. This is with a big variety of different treats including kibble; commercial treats of various kinds; cooked beef; cooked pork; cheese; bones plain, smeared with peanut butter, or with cheese pressed into the marrow (I mean seriously how do you resist poo poo like this). He's not really into toys as far as I can tell; he'll play with them as long as Darla is also playing with them, e.g. they'll tug on a toy together, but he doesn't chase balls and he's not interested in taking a toy out of my hand. He's happy to take food out of my hand, and all the aforementioned treats, but he literally will not move one foot forward to take something from me. It's not that he doesn't understand the concept of being hand fed, I give him treats and food from my hand all the time and he likes that; or that he's overfed, I show pics of my dogs regularly and you can see he's pretty fit; it *might* be that he doesn't want to compete with Darla over treats, but he's totally comfortable with regular feeding, he'll even push her out of the way at the water or food bowl at times. Even when Darla is secured in her crate with her own bone he's still very slow to go into his own crate and get his bone, although once he's in there he'll gnaw on the thing for around an hour, so he obviously values it. edit: he doesn't "slink" or blink or nose-lick or show other fearful body language when he finally approaches, he just waits a really long time and then walks over normally. The one thing that seems to have really sunk into his mind is that sitting will get me to open the door for him; he loves going outside and shows obvious excitement about it, but he's caught the idea that the door won't open unless he sits - pretty sure he actually learned this from seeing Darla sitting patiently. Unfortunately I can't carry my back door around with me everywhere so that's about all I've managed to teach him. The most blatant problem is that I have no way to get him to come when called! He loves being near me and rarely shows any fear of me (only when he's barking at other dogs and I try to lead him away) but it's almost like the behavior of approaching people for treats has been punished out of him. I'm out of ideas as to how to approach this, any ideas? Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 18:18 on May 22, 2011 |
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May 22, 2011 18:15
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Flesh Forge posted:but he simply will not approach me to take a treat...... I'm not very experienced at dog training, but I wanted to comment anyway, because I recognize this behavior. One of my chihuahuas has the same issue. I won't bore you with the various things I tried without result, and just cut to what I realized. Tango, being very small, was completely intimidated when I stood over him to give him treats. He would take them willingly if I tossed them on the floor, or if I was sitting on the couch and he was there with me, or on my lap, or really anywhere that the playing field was more level, I guess you could say. But he would completely baulk at approaching me when I was standing with a treat in hand. I learned that the behavior is called "pancaking" and it's a small dog behavior. Here's part of an article I saved which I found illuminating. It's about chihuahuas but is applicable to small dogs in general. Recognizing “Pancaking” by Joan Hustace Walker Chihuahuas do have to worry about predators. Hawks, owls, and other large birds of prey can easily swoop down and carry off a puppy or adult Chi. Perhaps as a result of the breed's early ancestry and the necessity for self-preservation, the Chihuahua has a unique reaction to certain sudden overhead movements. Pancaking, as Chi owners call it, is when a Chihuahua literally flattens herself on the ground. A large shadow passing overhead or the slightest sound in the trees can trigger this defensive reaction. If a Chihuahua pancakes from time to time, it does not mean she is timid, shy, or fearful. This is a natural reaction. If you find your Chi pancakes frequently for nonthreatening movements (the ceiling fan) or sounds (a jet overhead), you can help her recognize these things are not dangerous through one of the following training techniques: Do nothing. Dogs will take their lead from their humans. If the sound or movement doesn't scare you, and you don't react to your Chi's pancaking, over time the dog will often realize there's nothing to be afraid of. Reward good behavior. Find your Chi's comfort zone (the distance away from the object at which the Chihuahua remains calm) and reward good, calm behavior. Work in inches toward the object and continue to reward good behavior. Desensitize your dog. If your Chi pancakes for a particular sound, such as when a jet passes overhead, you may find you have success in eliminating this behavior by playing a tape of jets (softly at first) over and over again until your Chi becomes accustomed to the sound. So, for me, the solution to Tango's pancaking was simple. Just squat down.....and he'd come a'running full tilt I have no compelling reason or need for him to take a treat from me while I'm standing, and if you do, then my input won't be of any use to you. But hopefully it was at least help you understand the behavior, if pancaking is, in fact, what you're dealing with.
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May 22, 2011 20:17
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Hmm I guess it might be that, but I've been working at this for some time now (adopted him about 6 weeks ago now) and I've tried A LOT of different things - sitting or lying flat on the floor with no noise e.g. He's happy to approach me when I'm standing also, or when we're walking. If I toss a treat near him he'll actually move a little bit to take it. It's really odd and pretty specific, just when I'm holding out some kind of treat. He doesn't seem to be showing any fear, he just ... isn't in a hurry to come get whatever it is. I should add, he's getting a *little* faster about it when I put something on the floor, but gosh it's taking a long time. edit: \/\/ I hand treats to them this way all the time, although Erik takes so long to decide to come get it that usually Darla runs out of patience and will try to take his too \/\/ Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 21:40 on May 22, 2011 |
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May 22, 2011 20:43
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Flesh Forge posted:It's really odd and pretty specific, just when I'm holding out some kind of treat. He doesn't seem to be showing any fear, he just ... isn't in a hurry to come get whatever it is. I should add, he's getting a *little* faster about it when I put something on the floor, but gosh it's taking a long time. That is a pretty weird Dog Thing. Have you tried, in a totally relaxed, day to day situation whilst you're just chilling, smearing some peanut butter (or melted cheese, or something similar) on your fingers on both hands and offering one hand to each dog? Maybe seeing Darla happily lick something nice and stinky and tasty off of you will encourage him to think that hands = good food = you can get that food. It sounds a little like someone's been pretty harsh to him in teaching him to 'leave it' (like shouting if he's gone for something they've dropped).
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May 22, 2011 21:06
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I've often heard about terriers who are simply not food motivated. (Hearing about them makes me thank my lucky stars for my food-obsessed girl.) It could be a confidence issue, it could be that he's simply not hungry, or it could be that food is not that great a motivator for him. If it's confidence related, I would suggest working with him without Darla present. Having a happier, more domineering dog around can definitely keep a quiet dog in his shell. Taking the dog out to new environments, and/or a fun training class like agility can go a long way to improving the value you hold in his eyes. I think I remember seeing photos of your new guy and thinking he was in good shape, but my memory might not be accurate. Always assess and reassess his body condition and make sure he stays at a healthy weight. Many dogs who are overweight are unenthusiastic about food since they get so much of it for free. It also goes without saying that you should be feeding meals, not letting him graze throughout the day. If you've done your best trying to find a fantastic A-list food reward for him, and failed, well, he may just not be that interested in working for food. This is when you start looking at other motivational items -- you've already identified play as only so-so, and running in the backyard as valuable. So, as it stands now, Premack is going to be your new best friend. You can actually use it to start building value for other less intrinsically rewarding things. This brief blog entry by Susan Garrett sums up the basics: http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2010/07/grow-the-value/ As for coming when called, you're going to have to work on coming to you rewarding. It won't happen over night, but if you play enough games, and do lots of super-fun restrained recalls, you should be able to grow your value. I would probably also use a leash to limit his access to other rewards. Don't compel him to come to you via reeling him in (that would only work against you), but don't allow him access to the more interesting bit of dust across the room. My guess is you might be waiting him out quite a while, but with more practice and excitement you should start to see improvement. What about other toys? Terriers are tiny killing machines, and many can't ignore a furry quickly moving toy. Are there any games he likes? Have you tried purchasing a real-fur toy and seeing if that elicits a reaction? Here's an article on how to make a motivating toy. If I were you I'd start working with the one reinforcer I have control of for sure (the doorway) and start offering a cookie before opening the door, or making him target a toy, etc. Try your best to work with what you have, instead of against it. Does that make sense?
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May 22, 2011 22:05
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a life less posted:If you've done your best trying to find a fantastic A-list food reward for him, and failed, well, he may just not be that interested in working for food. Yesterday in a fit of desperation I boiled some chicken breasts for the dogs. I planned on working weave pole entrances with Rho, but instead I got this jumping, barking little fiend who wasn't able to focus on work because he was too focused on The Food. His weaving probably deteriorated a bit because I just kept working, but I don't care. I finally have something he really wants. I really thought I'd tried everything. I have tried chicken before, several times. Just not boiled, human grade chicken breast. It turns out Rho is a dog of expensive tastes.
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May 23, 2011 06:23
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Other bizarre treat options you might try in addition to a life less's advice, are fishy things. Major goes nuts for sardines, little salad shrimps, and all manner of dried marine life you can get for cheap at E. Asian supermarkets. The grosser the better in his mind at least. Also liver in any form. I have yet to see a dog turn their nose up at liver and I often have random dogs mob me at the pet store if I forget I have some in my pocket.
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May 23, 2011 14:53
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Thanks for all the suggestions so far! It's not that he doesn't value the things I'm treating him with - he's actually much less picky than Darla, who won't take anything vegetable or bready, Erik will gobble up pretty much anything I hand him. He's just really reluctant to move towards me to take a treat from my hand. If I drop it on the floor he'll come get it, or e.g. if he sees me put a bone inside his crate he'll trot right in and chew on it for a solid hour. He loves playing with other dogs; particularly Darla, but other dogs at the dog park also. I adopted him at 1.5 years of age, and I think maybe his previous owner punished him excessively for certain things (cf. earlier post on how he cowers sometimes). Among the things suggested, I'm also trying to just stop putting food straight into his mouth, I can get him to shift position or move a little bit to take food from my hand so I'm trying to extend that distance - only been doing that for a day but so far it looks promising. \/\/ That's a good idea but I'll absolutely have to separate the dogs to even begin teaching him something like that, that's Darla's favorite game. \/\/ Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 17:16 on May 23, 2011 |
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May 23, 2011 16:12
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Flesh Forge posted:Among the things suggested, I'm also trying to just stop putting food straight into his mouth, I can get him to shift position or move a little bit to take food from my hand so I'm trying to extend that distance - only been doing that for a day but so far it looks promising. You might also try teaching him hand-targets. They're awesome for repositioning dogs without having to actually touch them (making them less stressed), and you'll be asking him to move towards you to be rewarded without luring.
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May 23, 2011 16:15
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Okay now we're getting somewhere - Erik has started to go into his crate when he sees that I have a crate-only treat in my hand (a doctored-up bone). He'd go in there to get something I'd already placed in it, but this is a good step forward. He's taken a lot longer to catch onto that than Darla did, she got it in about two days - the same step forward for Erik has taken about four weeks!
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May 24, 2011 01:53
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Another probably common question: How do you teach your dog to give you some signal when he has to go to the bathroom? Background: Six month old lab. We live on the second story and have to take an elevator down to go outside. We were not seeing any signals, so we put a bell by the door, and ring it every time we take him out, but he has never paid any attention to the bell. He clearly knows he's not supposed to go to the bathroom inside, but that does not mean that he gives any signal when he does have to go. We generally just take him out every two hours or so, but every once in a while (maybe once every week or two), he just can't hold it two hours, so we have an accident. My wife and I both pay pretty close attention, and we don't think we have really seen any signals, other than perhaps sitting close to the door a couple times (after which we promptly took him out).
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May 24, 2011 16:49
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gvibes posted:Another probably common question: Some dogs never naturally develop a "gotta go" signal. So I think that you're on to the right track with the bells on the door. If I were doing the bell thing I would teach the dog a target cue (touch my hand with your nose). I'd then start branching it off to other objects (touch this sticky note on my hand or touch this bell I'm holding in my hand). Then once he's reliably targeting it in your hand, start adding distance (touch this bell sitting in my hand on the floor, then not in my hand at all, then 1 foot away, etc). Once you've created a reliable target cue you can start requesting it each and every time you open the door. For walks, for bathroom breaks, for everything. Cue the touch. After a while of doing it go through your ritual of getting ready to leave, and see if he'll ever target the bell on his own. If he does, jackpot like crazy and bring him right out. And of course, if he ever ever rings the bell on his own, reward like crazy -- never ignore it. Some people's dogs seem to pick up the bell = outside by osmosis. Some have different approaches. I tend to suggest the above since it a) teaches the dog a valuable target skill and b) breaks everything down into tiny steps which the dog may have an easier time understanding.
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May 24, 2011 19:27
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a life less posted:Some dogs never naturally develop a "gotta go" signal. So I think that you're on to the right track with the bells on the door. I'm not sure I agree with all of this, but you're definitely the expert of anyone in this thread. I'm concerned that you're opening up the door to just asking to go out because it's fun or gets a reward, rather than "I gotta pee". gvibes: Have you ever asked him to target or bump the bells himself? Maybe even off of the door? You might try getting leashed up and ready to go outside, and if you've been consistent with the bells thing, just stand nearby the bells and just wait with him for a few minutes. He might hit them himself. If so, praise like crazy and you're over the stumbling block.
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May 24, 2011 20:45
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MrFurious posted:I'm not sure I agree with all of this, but you're definitely the expert of anyone in this thread. I'm concerned that you're opening up the door to just asking to go out because it's fun or gets a reward, rather than "I gotta pee". By no means is that the be all and end all of "gotta pee" signal training. I would definitely not be surprised if the dog starts targeting the bells for fun, or for "non business trips", but to me the key is getting a signal associated with the outdoors. Once you've got that you can start refining the process by keeping the trips outside all business with no opportunities to otherwise self-reinforce. I know I've read of other tactics (in this thread?). From what you posted, I don't think your advice is too different than mine. What might you change?
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May 24, 2011 20:50
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a life less posted:By no means is that the be all and end all of "gotta pee" signal training. I'm not sure, and obviously it's always hard to say when you can't actually watch the behavior first hand. I think I'd approach it very similarly to what you said, but I'd restrict the attempts to target to when you're actually on your way outside for a potty break. Sadie picked the bells up pretty quickly, but she still hits them when we know she doesn't need to go, so that behavior is still something we're working to curb, so I'm not sure I'm an expert. That said, I think I'd try to make a big deal about me hitting the bells before going outside, and make sure that there was some recognition on the part of the dog. If I didn't think he was getting it, I would ring the crap out of them for a period of 10 seconds, then immediately go outside and give the elimination command. Which brings up an interesting point -- gvibes are you using an elimination command for when you take the dog outside? Is he on a leash or in the yard running around? It's possible that the disconnect isn't an issue of bells = outside, but rather outside = pee/poop (and eventually = bells).
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May 24, 2011 21:19
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Thanks so much guys.a life less posted:If I were doing the bell thing I would teach the dog a target cue (touch my hand with your nose). I'd then start branching it off to other objects (touch this sticky note on my hand or touch this bell I'm holding in my hand). Then once he's reliably targeting it in your hand, start adding distance (touch this bell sitting in my hand on the floor, then not in my hand at all, then 1 foot away, etc). Once you've created a reliable target cue you can start requesting it each and every time you open the door. For walks, for bathroom breaks, for everything. Cue the touch. After a while of doing it go through your ritual of getting ready to leave, and see if he'll ever target the bell on his own. If he does, jackpot like crazy and bring him right out. And of course, if he ever ever rings the bell on his own, reward like crazy -- never ignore it. MrFurious posted:I'm not sure I agree with all of this, but you're definitely the expert of anyone in this thread. I'm concerned that you're opening up the door to just asking to go out because it's fun or gets a reward, rather than "I gotta pee". MrFurious posted:gvibes: MrFurious posted:Which brings up an interesting point -- gvibes are you using an elimination command for when you take the dog outside? Is he on a leash or in the yard running around? It's possible that the disconnect isn't an issue of bells = outside, but rather outside = pee/poop (and eventually = bells).
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May 24, 2011 21:46
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How would you go about training a dog (or 3) to distinguish between various types of outdoor trips? I've got 3 adult dogs that are all pretty good about signalling when they need/want to go out. All are very solid in terms of being house-trained. They'll all pee on command, and I can generally just tell when they need to poop, though they'll do that on command, too. Sometimes they just want to go bark at the neighbor dogs, chase a squirrel, drink rainwater, eat bugs, etc. Their general method is to sit and/or 'aroooo' at the back door until I tell them to knock it off (if I don't have time and I've figured out it's an "etc" trip, not a potty trip), or until we go out. I don't mind the 'aroooo' method we've got going on, but it would be cool if they could be more specific about WHY they wanted to go out.
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May 24, 2011 21:59
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^^^^^^ It's all body language, basically. Sadie will hit the bells to get our attention or ask to go out. And if I know that she's been out in the last hour, and hasn't been gulping water or having butt issues, then I know she's full of poo poo and just wants attention. Typically when she does this, she will come to one of us and then sit quietly to elicit a response (because we've conditioned this as polite). If I reach out to pet her and she pulls away, she needs to go pee or poop. If she sits there and takes it, she wants attention. That's going to vary from dog to dog, and you just have to spend time with them and observe them. They're giving you signals, you just might not be reading them. They are also liars, cheats and sneaks. I would make sure that YOU distinguish between the different trips too. Ask them if they want to go for a walk, or ask them if they need to go outside (potty), substitute as necessary. Eventually they will pick up on the difference. gvibes: Here's exactly what I would do if I were in your shoes. This will be grossly detailed, because I don't want to make any assumptions about what you are or aren't doing currently. Also, you didn't give me, that PI dork you don't know, any of your eve stuff, you gave it all to those jerks in Elitist Ops so now you have to digest all of my words for meaning because I am spiteful. Does the dog know what "outside" means? Or whatever word you use for going outside (this is not the elimination command it's a "do you need to pee?" command) If not, start asking it before you take him out. We did this calling Sadie over and saying "Outside?" If she sat, we leashed her up and took her out to do her business. Everytime you leash up to go out, stand at the door of your apartment, just in front of it. Hit the bells and say "Outside", then open the door and leave with dog in tow. Go straight out to the potty spot and give the elimination command. I re-read your original post and saw that you're using an elevator. Is it practical to use the stairs instead? The dog may not really understand that you're still on your way outside if he's just standing waiting for the elevator, or just riding in it. I'd also say that at six months, this may be a complex puzzle for the dog to solve just yet. What happens if you don't take him every two hours and wait for him to tell you that he needs to go? Does he just have an accident in the corner or something?
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May 24, 2011 22:17
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MrFurious posted:gvibes:  And only about 2/3 of EO are jerks.MrFurious posted:Does the dog know what "outside" means? Or whatever word you use for going outside (this is not the elimination command it's a "do you need to pee?" command) MrFurious posted:Everytime you leash up to go out, stand at the door of your apartment, just in front of it. Hit the bells and say "Outside", then open the door and leave with dog in tow. Go straight out to the potty spot and give the elimination command. MrFurious posted:I re-read your original post and saw that you're using an elevator. Is it practical to use the stairs instead? The dog may not really understand that you're still on your way outside if he's just standing waiting for the elevator, or just riding in it. MrFurious posted:I'd also say that at six months, this may be a complex puzzle for the dog to solve just yet. What happens if you don't take him every two hours and wait for him to tell you that he needs to go? Does he just have an accident in the corner or something?
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May 25, 2011 16:15
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gvibes posted:I have not given anyone anything, and am now considering coming back. Turns out I have the assets to get an aeon. Try that for a week or two and see what happens. If you're still having problems we can all try to help more. But, fyi, if you can get video of it, even just crappy phone video, it can be extremely helpful.
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May 25, 2011 16:44
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We put our dog through basic obedience training (we were taught how to teach him to sit, not be an rear end in a top hat on a leash/indoors etc) and he is doing great inside and on walks. However, we are now trying to start off leash training. The biggest issue is that once outdoors and off leash he becomes a complete rear end in a top hat and won't consistently respond to his name. Even then he will barely look at us and keep sniffing around or whatever. Added to this is the fact that he is fast as gently caress and goes through the woods like a gazelle. So even if we get his attention he thinks its a game and runs away, to the point where we barely get him to return and I'm afraid he'll either get lost, run into trouble, or whatever. I've had to wander for .5 miles around to find him and he eventually runs back to me wagging his tail and being an idiot so I leash him and return home. Because of the uncontrollability I'm not sure how to transition from leash to off leash. Recall is obviously important and all I want is for him to stop whatever he is doing and come to someone whenever his name is called. Would the best approach be to get a really long length of rope ? Like 50 feet, so it slows him down and I have something to grab? I'm not sure if it will work because he is dam smart enough to know the difference between whether we can catch him or not.
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May 28, 2011 15:33
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Sylink posted:However, we are now trying to start off leash training. IMO, you're expecting too much of your dog. There is a massive difference between being indoors and outdoors on-leash (and indoors off leash), and being outdoors and off-leash. You need to find somewhere less distracting than the woods to start with; do you have access to a secure yard or field, or anywhere you can take him other than a place that will be stock full of smells and critters? The issue with teaching recall in such a distracting place is that it's very self-rewarding to NOT come to you - why respond to someone shouting your name when there's a squirrel a metre above your head, or a pile of deer crap to roll in? Also, it's possible you aren't using something motivational enough. What treats are you giving him for recall? You need to find a food or toy he goes absolutely crazy for, and reward him liberally with it when he comes back to you. What is motivating indoors or outdoors and on-leash will not be motivating when he is outdoors and off-leash and can self-reward so much. To reduce his ability to run away, you do need a long line, too. If you use a huge length of cheap rope, as he gets better you can cut it up - so when he's responding 100% with 50m of rope, trim off a metre, and so on.
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May 28, 2011 16:28
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Sylink posted:We put our dog through basic obedience training (we were taught how to teach him to sit, not be an rear end in a top hat on a leash/indoors etc) and he is doing great inside and on walks. What kind of dog are you working with? Breed matters. Like Fraction said - being off-leash is self-motivating, so you need a dog that is motivated enough by treats, praise, working drive, etc. to ignore what they want and to do what you want. Some dogs just won't ever be reliable enough off-leash.
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May 28, 2011 16:32
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MoCookies posted:Some dogs just won't ever be reliable enough off-leash. If you have any sort of husky or malamute, or even a husky or malamute mix, you can never ever let them off leash. Not if there is anything remotely distracting from you. And with those dogs almost everything is more interesting than the human.
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May 28, 2011 16:36
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Citizen Rat posted:If you have any sort of husky or malamute, or even a husky or malamute mix, you can never ever let them off leash. Not if there is anything remotely distracting from you. And with those dogs almost everything is more interesting than the human. I never say never. I've known some Huskies to be just fine off leash, and some go on to earn OB titles. However, I've known more Huskies and Mals to have poor off-leash recall, and unless you're positive of your dog's desire to listen to you, better safe than sorry. Sylink, there are some links to other posts I've made about improving recall in the OP. In case you missed them, here you go: OP posted:Tips to improve off-leash recall Recall is a funny thing. If your dog is free to make their own decisions you're essentially asking your dog to forgo all the excitement and rewards of galavanting around in the woods and come to you instead. Basically for that to happen your dog had better think you're the greatest thing in the world, literally. The basic reasons that a dog will have a poor recall are:
A long line may work for you, but you'll find greater success if you can convince your dog that you're intrinsically rewarding. The long line simply limits their freedom, and may not actually change what they way to do. So a long line is helpful, but in the mean time start playing lots of games in low-distraction areas so your dog grows to value interacting with you. You don't want tools to ever become crutches. Recall is enormously difficult to perfect even with hard work. My dog, for instance, will tell me to go gently caress myself if she smells an unattended sandwich in the park, because she's learned that if she gets there first she gets a delicious reward that's better than what I can offer her. My plan of attack is to start proofing her around food on the ground, starting very close (which she's great at) and gradually increasing the distance, and I'll carry around uber special delicious rewards that hopefully outrank the value of park-meat.
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May 28, 2011 16:49
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| # ? May 16, 2024 14:36 |
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MoCookies posted:What kind of dog are you working with? Breed matters. Like Fraction said - being off-leash is self-motivating, so you need a dog that is motivated enough by treats, praise, working drive, etc. to ignore what they want and to do what you want. Some dogs just won't ever be reliable enough off-leash. He is some mutt, maybe newfoundland/lab/retriever/collie. Honestly its loving hard to tell. Here is a video if you want to take a guess http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWFHYZ1kVEE But for treats, he loves cheese so I tend to carry that around with me. His range is huge and he often runs in huge circles at like 40mph around me. Eventually he comes back but obviously need to get it better. I've tried training him at dog parks when no one is around and its still hard to get his attention sometimes. And when he does come back I dont try to get angry for him running off like a dick, I reward him like its the best thing ever because I realize he won't get it if I punish him. He was a shelter rescue so its also very possible he was living on his own for a short period even though he is like 15 months old. I'll check out those posts a life less, thanks. EDIT: What does poisoning the name mean? Sylink fucked around with this message at 18:31 on May 28, 2011 |
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May 28, 2011 18:29
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