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Don't make me bring David Sirlin into this derail.
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May 19, 2011 21:17
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Toussaint Louverture posted:I own the core books and have played under three different DMs. The game sucks. Thank god I didn't sell my 3.x books. Could you post more of your criticisms here, please?
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May 19, 2011 21:19
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gently caress wizards anyway. Druids are wizards that can turn into bears.
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May 19, 2011 23:11
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DontMockMySmock posted:
I was about to write up a big ole' response and then I saw this wasn't grognards.txt. Huh! But hey, all classes are alike. So, how bout that 3.5? The barbarian could gain +2 to hit and damage sometimes... but the fighter could get a +2 to damage all the time! Whoah! And the monk can talk to rocks, how sweet is that. And lookit that rogue, sometimes he does a lot of damage, and other times he is useless poo poo! Man, that right there is a profound difference.
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May 19, 2011 23:57
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DontMockMySmock posted:But I guess if you like playing a game where the party wizard is literally better at everything than every other character, feel free to play 3.x. Whatever floats your boat. The fix to this is not playing with spergy assholes who power- and meta-game to absurdities.
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May 20, 2011 00:00
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Who What Now posted:The fix to this is not playing with spergy assholes who power- and meta-game to absurdities. Yes, but that's the fix to every RPG ever... As long as we're continuing this derail, I totally do not get the claim that 4th ed classes are 'all the same'. I've only played a few characters, and they all play wildly differently. Heck, just comparing my paladin tank to a fighter tank to a warden tank, three classes with similar roles, their different types of marks are completely different. edit: Warden, not ranger. Bah. I blame lack of sleep. Bobulus fucked around with this message at 03:31 on May 20, 2011 |
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May 20, 2011 00:06
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Who What Now posted:The fix to this is not playing with spergy assholes who power- and meta-game to absurdities. Why play a system that you have to fight at every turn to make it not a piece of poo poo when you could play one with a decent foundation? Sure you can DM fiat and homebrew (and mostly ban a poo poo load of books) away almost anything, but at a certain point you have to ask yourself is this worth the time and effort? And Bobulus is right, though I think he meant Warden. Wardens, Fighters, Paladins, and Swordmages are all Defenders but they don't have a whole lot in common in terms of how they do their jerbs except for "marks poo poo".
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May 20, 2011 01:13
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Who What Now posted:The fix to this is not playing with spergy assholes who power- and meta-game to absurdities. If you get a group of people together who are new to 3.x, and aren't trying to power- or meta-game, the wizard will be better than all the other characters on accident. You have to actively meta-game in the other direction to even approach balance.
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May 20, 2011 01:37
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DontMockMySmock posted:If you get a group of people together who are new to 3.x, and aren't trying to power- or meta-game, the wizard will be better than all the other characters on accident. You have to actively meta-game in the other direction to even approach balance. I can attest to this. Ages ago, in my first D&D game ever, my 3.0 Wizard ended up hitting with his drat sword better than everyone else in the party. And by dint of being a Wizard, casted better than everyone else in the party too.
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May 20, 2011 02:52
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Bobulus posted:Heck, just comparing my paladin tank to a fighter tank to a warden tank, three classes with similar roles, their different types of marks are completely different. Even when you compare classes with both the same role and power source, they play completely differently. Ranger and rogue, for instance, or bard and artificer, have next to nothing in common with how they're played. Thinking that just because all classes get powers at the same rate (which isn't even true any more) they must play the same is as silly as thinking that just because humans have similar skeletons they must all look and act the same.
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May 20, 2011 06:37
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Captain Oblivious posted:Why play a system that you have to fight at every turn to make it not a piece of poo poo when you could play one with a decent foundation? This is an ironic metaphor considering how dull 4th edition is in non-combat situations. Really, I don't particularly want to argue about it. I'm only familiar with the Core books so maybe they fixed some of my issues with supplements, but frankly I prefer the complexity of 3.5 and know the game well enough for criticisms like the wizard issue (honestly, it's like nobody plays with spell components or spell resistance) and grapple and that poo poo. I just don't like 4ed and I probably never will. I gave it a go, played for about 40 hours, and wished I was playing a better game while I was doing it. I know plenty of people who prefer 3.5 so it's not a problem for me, though I am kind of bitter that all the CRPGs from now on will probably be 4ed... I don't particularly care which y'all prefer, so long as you acknowledge that Paranoia is better than both. Eifert Posting fucked around with this message at 07:36 on May 20, 2011 |
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May 20, 2011 07:19
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Toussaint Louverture posted:This is an ironic metaphor considering how dull 4th edition is in non-combat situations. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 15:21 on May 20, 2011 |
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May 20, 2011 15:14
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It's actually really nice to have rules for non-combat stuff. You know you don't have to use them, right? Like if you just want to role-play talking your way past a guard or whatever, you can just do that and skip all the bluff/intimidate/etc rolls. The reason that they are useful to have is that it's pretty common for a character to have better mental or social stats than a player. I am not as charismatic as a bard, and not as smart as a mage. With non-combat rules, a player who is awkward and uncomfortable trying to fast-talk a situation can say something pretty simple, and make whatever check instead. If those rules aren't there at all, you'd either have to make them up yourself or just be like 'Sorry Steve, you're too dumb to play the quick-talking rogue, just roll up a barbarian ok?' DnD (and RP in general) is not a competitive game, so there is nothing demanding that you use all the rules all the time without fail (except I guess a bad group and DM, but good luck finding a system to solve that problem). It's handy to have a system integrated into the game that you can fall back on when ability and inspiration fail you.
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May 20, 2011 15:41
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Ashcans posted:It's actually really nice to have rules for non-combat stuff. You know you don't have to use them, right? Like if you just want to role-play talking your way past a guard or whatever, you can just do that and skip all the bluff/intimidate/etc rolls. The rules you mentioned are all there in 4E too, though. No, the stuff that's missing in 4E is all the ways 3.5 made absolutely sure that a fighter (and a thief, after level 7 or so) could have nothing to contribute to the party outside of combat, because the wizard would take care of it; yeah it's great that you have 16 ranks in Athletics Timmy but pipe down now please the real adventurers are doing things. We'll let you know when there's damage to be absorbed. Ashenai fucked around with this message at 16:16 on May 20, 2011 |
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May 20, 2011 16:13
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All my groups play exactly the same way whether it's 3.5 or 4E night, and any noncombat situation I can think of resolves practically the same way and much on the same level of effectiveness. On an average evening people will roll a Bluff or Diplomacy check every now and then, sometimes someone will have to scout ahead rolling for Stealth/Move Silently or Climb/Athletics, and occasionally the wizard happens to have a spell or ritual handy that makes a situation easier to handle. The only difference is how fun the combat is. I guess we're accidentally doing something right? (we do leave out skill challenges in 4E cause they're bollocks, maybe it's that)
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May 20, 2011 16:26
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Shut up people it's just a silly game chill
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May 20, 2011 19:02
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Bobulus posted:Yes, but that's the fix to every RPG ever... Wardens are the best tanks, plus they can turn into TREES!
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May 20, 2011 20:48
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38 new posts? I bet Burlew must have posted something new and awesome that throws a neat twist while advancing the plot! Surely it isn't a page and a half of TG rejects sperging over whether 3.5 or 4 is the true holy gently caress.
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May 20, 2011 21:56
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Eschers Basement posted:38 new posts? I bet Burlew must have posted something new and awesome that throws a neat twist while advancing the plot! Surely it isn't a page and a half of TG rejects sperging over whether 3.5 or 4 is the true holy Why don't you go over to the Giant in the Playground forums, they will surely keep you safe from the horrors of disagreement.
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May 20, 2011 22:32
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Red_Mage posted:Why don't you go over to the Giant in the Playground forums, they will surely keep you safe from the horrors of disagreement. You are full of lies.
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May 21, 2011 20:07
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Who What Now posted:The fix to this is not playing with spergy assholes who power- and meta-game to absurdities. Not everyone is perfectly spoiled for choices in that regard. Around here we have: -The powergamer group (wherein the DM's high school buddies have insanely good stats which he insists they rolled) -the pedophile DM (whose wife blah blah insane stats) -the batshit DM who literally believes he is his favorite NPC (whose mood swings affect everyone equally, at least) -the game store owner's wife running 4E encounters, which lasts an hour a week and has the approximate RP:Dice ratio of yahtzee Sometimes you just have to try to fix (and bitch about on the internet) the crappy group which is nonetheless the best game in town.
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May 21, 2011 21:17
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Javid posted:Not everyone is perfectly spoiled for choices in that regard. Around here we have: No gaming is better than bad gaming.
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May 21, 2011 21:20
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crime fighting hog posted:No gaming is better than bad gaming. I always parse that mantra as meaning "Bad gaming is the best there is."
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May 21, 2011 21:26
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Umbra Dubium posted:I always parse that mantra as meaning "Bad gaming is the best there is." You are a fundamentally broken person
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May 22, 2011 01:53
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I miss my college town. All the RPers were amazingly clean and socially adjusted.
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May 22, 2011 14:00
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Toussaint Louverture posted:I miss my college town. All the RPers were amazingly clean and socially adjusted. D&D in Lake Woebegon
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May 22, 2011 16:40
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The Werle posted:D&D in Lake Woebegon I don't think I could play D&D with Garrison Keillor... E: I say this because each room description would be 20 minutes long with an amusing story about the lady who plays the organ at church each Sunday and how her son-in-law convinced her to buy a Harley or some poo poo. crime fighting hog fucked around with this message at 17:53 on May 22, 2011 |
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May 22, 2011 16:56
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Yeah but it'd be so much more relaxing to listen to than regular flavor text. You'd never be able to fault him for ignoring role-playing, and he'd host the best games you ever napped through. Anyway you know the best solution to having only poo poo DMs in your area is to become a DM right? SuperKlaus fucked around with this message at 18:00 on May 22, 2011 |
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May 22, 2011 17:58
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But then you have to find non-poo poo players.
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May 22, 2011 18:13
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crime fighting hog posted:I don't think I could play D&D with Garrison Keillor... No gently caress this, Garrison Keillor would be an amazing DM and it is now my one wish to see this come to play.
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May 22, 2011 23:55
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HKR posted:No gently caress this, Garrison Keillor would be an amazing DM and it is now my one wish to see this come to play. If I still worked for an NPR affiliate I would be writing him furiously right now. "It was the summer of 1291 and everyone in Nentir Vale was gathering together in Town Square for the Owlbear festival..."
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May 23, 2011 06:23
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Sometimes it amazes me how infrequently Rich updates considering the comic is his main source of income. What the gently caress does he do all day?
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May 23, 2011 19:28
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Last I heard, be not physically well.
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May 23, 2011 19:35
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Toussaint Louverture posted:Sometimes it amazes me how infrequently Rich updates considering the comic is his main source of income. What the gently caress does he do all day? Having seen how he draws himself... eat
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May 23, 2011 19:40
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Cliff Racer posted:eat
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May 23, 2011 19:58
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Toussaint Louverture posted:Sometimes it amazes me how infrequently Rich updates considering the comic is his main source of income. What the gently caress does he do all day? He said in an interview (a couple years back) that he spends a lot of time working on the publishing side to get the books out - working with vendors, printers, that sort of thing for the books. The "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales" book ran into some issues with the printer, so that might actually be contributing to the long wait.
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May 23, 2011 20:19
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New Strip! Oh god not the kitty!
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May 25, 2011 00:53
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Belkar's SO going to wear a Kobolt hat when he finds out. 
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May 25, 2011 01:17
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Nenonen posted:Belkar's SO going to wear a Kobold hat when he finds out. Maybe the Linear Guild is gonna win until Belkar finds out that they hosed with Mr. Scruffy, and then Belkar brutally murders every one of them in one of those "Crowning Moment of Awesome" things that tvtropes loves so much.
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May 25, 2011 01:22
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You know, Belkar multiclassed to Barbarian a fairly long time ago. Have we ever seen him use his Rage ability? I think we're going to soon.
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May 25, 2011 02:04
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