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If you can't handle a Slann by now I don't even know what to say. They're big fat pinyatas with magic, any basic antimagic can fight them and then you kill them like literally any other wizard lord. The only difference is Cupped Hands makes it unlikely he'll kill himself like a punk.
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May 23, 2011 16:27
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I played 1500 points yesterday as Dark Elves which worked out okay, I guess. 36 warriors w/ shields & full command 20 crossbows w/ shields 10 crossbows w/ shields bsb cauldron 2 war hydras supreme sorceress, level 4, pendant of khaeleth, sacrificial dagger, metal lore
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May 23, 2011 16:51
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Well, I played in the second round of Ard Boyz last Saturday, and needless to say, I didn't come anywhere near the top. I didn't do badly, considering the fact I play Ogres, but the tournament was dominated by the exact same list, played by 5-6 different players. It was along the lines of: Kairos Fateweaver The Masque Herald of Khorne Herald of Tzeentch, BSB, with the -2 LD banner Skulltaker (optional, some people opted for more infantry models instead) 40ish Bloodletters 30ish Pink Horrors 5-10 Flesh Hounds As many Flamers as possible. This list couldn't seem to be beaten. The flamers and pink horrors whittled everything down until they reached combat with the bloodletters, and the Masque combined with the BSB made sure the bloodletters won. The Flesh Hounds kept things away from the Masque, and Kairos hopped around firing Purple Sun/Pit of Shades/Dwellers Below at the most appropriate targets.
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May 23, 2011 19:12
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Glad to know demons reclaimed their throne after all this time. I realize TO's just want to collect entrance fees but they should probably (even though there's no  in 'ard boyz) stop accepting applications with identical lists.Did anyone have to play that list twice from two different opponents?
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May 23, 2011 19:37
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I would be more interested in hearing how the list fared against itself, actually. If that many people were playing it, it seems like two of them would have had to have been paired up at some point.
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May 23, 2011 19:55
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In regards to people playing against the list more than once, only at the very end, when the top players were all using the same army. I didn't mention, but about half the players overall were using daemons. It's just that a few of them were using lists different than the 'popular' one. Most of the non-Kairos/flamer lists revolved around ignoring magic, and just doing their best to overrun their opponents with Khorne and Slaanesh units instead (they didn't do as well). Against themselves, it always seemed to come down to Kairos. What they did with him, if they could kill the opposing Kairos, what spells they chose for the tournament, and such, seemed to always determine who won. Basically, it was a race to see who could kill the opposing Kairos first, and after that it wasn't that hard to win. Also, unlucky spellcasting rolls, especially with the spell Purple Sun, cost at least one of the players a pivotal match. I only played against the list once, and although I wasn't thrashed, I was beaten without my opponent sweating that much. The Masque's ability to reduce leadership, combined with the banner that lowers nearby opposing unit's LD by 2, wrecked havoc on my Ogres. Blompkin fucked around with this message at 20:17 on May 23, 2011 |
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May 23, 2011 20:10
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Blompkin posted:Well, I played in the second round of Ard Boyz last Saturday, and needless to say, I didn't come anywhere near the top. I didn't do badly, considering the fact I play Ogres, but the tournament was dominated by the exact same list, played by 5-6 different players. At my semi's it was actually the exact same high elf list 5 times. Teclis with the pretty much carbon copies of the infantry across each (swordmasters, spearmen, etc). The only variation was in some of the fluffy extras... one guy had a unit of those scouts w/ the named special in them, another guy chose to run with a bunker of phoenix guard, etc. My ogres didn't do as well as last year, but I still made it to 11th place of 22. My first game was against skaven, and while I got tabled (I rolled insanely poorly on a Cracks Call casting after the TO ruled that I don't get a look-out-sir roll, which pretty much swung the game from a massacre in my favor to a total defeat). I had few enough KPs that my downing of one of his hellpits and his three units of gutter runners, plus a few characters put us on a draw. For some reason the TO allowed that to happen too... wasn't the first of a great many very odd decisions I heard about, but that's 'Ard Boyz for you. My second game was absulutely terrible. I was up against a teclis list, and I ended up having every unit on the far left of the table. I didn't get any buffs off, and he rammed me with swordmasters w/ IFed mindrazor and IFed minus 3 strength on my ogres. Killed all of my characters, broke the unit, which caused panic tests in both my Ironguts and my gnoblars, both of which failed, and both of which fled off the table (because I had everything in that one corner!). At the end of turn one, all my characters, my bulls, my IGs, and my gnoblars were dead. I don't feel bad about it at all... I played the rolls I got for placement well, I just had crap for magic, he did great rolling, and I managed to blow every leadership/flee/panic test that came my way. Sometimes the dice suck! At that point I just had fun with the guy and we quick sped through the rest of the turns seeing if he caught the fanatic (which he eventually did). My third game was against something similar to the daemons list you've cited. Kairos, Masque, some Pink Horrors, -2ld banner, and Daemonettes and other Slannesh units in place of the bloodletters. No hounds, but did have flamers. I actually ended up getting really buffed up on my characters and bulls unit, and he quad charged them from every side. I still won the combat by 4CR, and ended up destroying most of his models at that point. Overall I went 1-1-1, which is better than I should expect from "Ard Boyz: The Yearly Reminder of Why Teclis and Kairos are Banned In All Real Tournaments" Joebungaloe fucked around with this message at 20:33 on May 23, 2011 |
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May 23, 2011 20:19
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Blompkin posted:In regards to people playing against the list more than once, only at the very end, when the top players were all using the same army. I managed to avoid combat w/ my bulls until after I charged a scraplauncher into the Masque, raping his face off. Things went pretty well from there, as I won the only combat afterward, and directed any spells off my bulls into the gnobs so there wasnt a ld problem just in case. E- Also, our first place player was a double slann lizardmen list. Apparently he had three massacres... the first of which he got from an empire player who took 18 warmachines?!?! Joebungaloe fucked around with this message at 20:35 on May 23, 2011 |
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May 23, 2011 20:21
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It's interesting that you had 5 Teclis armies, and the one I was at didn't have any. Weird. As for my other games, I had a draw against a ridiculous Chaos Warriors army that consisted of 2 altars and a single unit of 100 Chaos Warriors. Basically, neither of us could kill enough of each other's biggest unit before the game ended. The last game I beat a Lizardman player using a typical 'Temple Guard + Slaan + a ton of Skinks' list. He deployed his army evenly across the board, and in response I loaded up one side, close to his Slaan, with gnoblars guarding my flank. I managed to reach his General's unit after taking quite a few losses to 'dwellers below', and flattened it, while distracting his skinks with my less valuable units. Overall, I also went 1-1-1. Not terrible, but nothing to brag about. It seems this year it's just a war between the Teclis and Kairos players.
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May 23, 2011 20:34
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Jesus christ, thats broken as gently caress. And you wonder why people prefer to play video games? At least you haven't spent 100s of dollars and 100s of hours in assembling, modelling and painting your army just to have it beaten by some internet cookie-cutter list. I know its 'ard boyz and that I should just play in my garage or whatever, but jeez. Also, computer games at least get patches if things get out of hand (at least Blizzard games do).
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May 23, 2011 20:38
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Blompkin posted:It's interesting that you had 5 Teclis armies, and the one I was at didn't have any. Weird. At least only one of the Teclis players took that portable tower, and even then he was rather new to the concept and he left the tower with Teclis and got him killed. Twice. And then left the tournament before the third game. I love when players who use Teclis get super pissed about losing because "wha wha wha I have Teclis I should always win and he should be invincible and everyone should give me $100 for playing him and then let me have sex with their girlfriends". I'm just all "I play ogres, and you think you have problems???  Deal with it!"
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May 23, 2011 20:38
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Not a viking posted:Jesus christ, thats broken as gently caress. And you wonder why people prefer to play video games? At least you haven't spent 100s of dollars and 100s of hours in assembling, modelling and painting your army just to have it beaten by some internet cookie-cutter list. I know its 'ard boyz and that I should just play in my garage or whatever, but jeez. Also, computer games at least get patches if things get out of hand (at least Blizzard games do). It's 'Ard Boyz, so I didn't say anything about it, but if I turned up at a tournament and there was someone else with the same list (much less five others) I would feel pretty bad about myself. I mean I realize that there is an optimized choice on how to play and win the game, but I want to inject a little originality and identity into my army.
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May 23, 2011 20:42
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Tournaments for fantasy are self defeating. It has never been a great tournament game, but I can't think of a better way to waste a beautiful afternoon indoors with a pal or friendly stranger.
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May 23, 2011 20:47
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Ashcans posted:It's 'Ard Boyz, so I didn't say anything about it, but if I turned up at a tournament and there was someone else with the same list (much less five others) I would feel pretty bad about myself. I mean I realize that there is an optimized choice on how to play and win the game, but I want to inject a little originality and identity into my army. Now, to be fair, I did have a blast, because I didn't take it too seriously. Me and a bunch of the other 22 players had clearly sub-optimal lists that were just for fun because we liked them (like the Brets player, or the guy who took 18 warmachines in his empire army in spite of the 150ish KPs he had for the first scenario). They didn't do particularly well, but that doesn't mean I regret going, esp when so few area tournaments exist, and none at all that play such high point values that allow me to bust out the whole collection!
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May 23, 2011 20:49
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Ashcans posted:It's 'Ard Boyz, so I didn't say anything about it, but if I turned up at a tournament and there was someone else with the same list (much less five others) I would feel pretty bad about myself. I mean I realize that there is an optimized choice on how to play and win the game, but I want to inject a little originality and identity into my army. what the gently caress is this poo poo, makes better armies, get out, etc
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May 23, 2011 20:50
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Real hurthling! posted:Tournaments for fantasy are self defeating. It has never been a great tournament game, but I can't think of a better way to waste a beautiful afternoon indoors with a pal or friendly stranger. Word. After getting my rear end handed to me in that second game, the HE player and I scooted across the street to McDonald's and shot the poo poo for a while 
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May 23, 2011 20:50
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How's this for a 1000pts Lizardmen force: Heroes Saurus Scar Veteran Hand Weapon, Piranha Blade, Shield Skink Priest Cloak of Feathers, Hand Weapon, To a Level 2 Wizard Core Saurus Warriors Champion, Musician, 15x Saurus Warrior, Standard Bearer Saurus Warriors Champion, Musician, 15x Saurus Warrior, Standard Bearer Special 10x Chameleon Skinks Stalker Stegadon
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May 23, 2011 20:59
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S.J. posted:what the gently caress is this poo poo, makes better armies, get out, etc You have a point that there isn't room for them at 'ard boyz but dropping a  is unnecessary.Sailed over my head I guess. Real hurthling! fucked around with this message at 21:13 on May 23, 2011 |
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May 23, 2011 21:00
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Pretty sure SJ wasn't being serious with that. If he was I will return to my current plan of painting and never playing. 
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May 23, 2011 21:03
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The one and only fantasy tournament I ever went to was a total bust. I brought my tomb kings and played three matches. First was against a demon army similar to the ones you guys listed. I got my rear end handed to me. Second match was against an Empire player with a steamtank and a bunch of other mechanical bullshit. I didn't even know at the time that there was such a thing as a steamtank. Got crushed again. Third match I went up against another TK player who had borrowed the army from a friend and didn't know how to use it. Managed to win that one. So it was pretty much a wasted day but at least I learned a valuable lesson: never play in warhammer tournaments.
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May 23, 2011 21:07
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Real hurthling! posted:There's room in this hobby for people who build suboptimal lists because they like the fluff and models. I collect my poo poo this way for the most part. Think he was being ironic. I play to win at 40K but fantasy is my gently caress-around-and-do-whatever game right now and I like it that way. The extreme amounts of randomness certainly make it seem, to me, like a much less viable game for actual competition.
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May 23, 2011 21:11
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Luckily my local gaming crowd aren't assholes even if they ARE a bit to competative for my taste. There is a yearly FB tournament and this last time one of the most hard core (ie cheesy dickhead) players started a thread on the club's forum where he asked about what people were going to bring. He displayed his lizardmen army ("no lords, no wards") and talked constantly for weeks before the tournament about his under powered Lizardmen army and how it would be such a fun experience if everyone showed up with under powered armies. On the day of the tournament he delivered his army list to the organizers and, you guessed it, tooled up Slann and everything people hate about Lizardmen. The guy who actually won the tournament was standing there, waiting for him to hand in his list, guessed what happened and turned in his "alternative" list. A hard one he had on hand just in case the afforemented rear end in a top hat would try something like that. There was a bit of drama aftermath, but the rear end in a top hat didn't even reach top three and people generally had a good time (I got third place sportsmanship and third place best painted).
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May 23, 2011 21:31
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Chenghiz posted:Think he was being ironic. And if you talk to the Fantasy 'nards they will rage and rage and rage about how much more deep and complex Fantasy is than 40k. And then their skaven flamethrower team misfires and randomly burns up half of the clanrat unit they were next to because they rolled a 1.
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May 23, 2011 21:39
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S.J. posted:And if you talk to the Fantasy 'nards they will rage and rage and rage about how much more deep and complex Fantasy is than 40k. And then their skaven flamethrower team misfires and randomly burns up half of the clanrat unit they were next to because they rolled a 1. the skaven book and 15 page FAQ is pretty much as complex as it gets. 50% chance of arguments, 50% chance of crapping your pants laughing. Real hurthling! fucked around with this message at 21:44 on May 23, 2011 |
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May 23, 2011 21:41
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Real hurthling! posted:the skaven book and 15 page FAQ is pretty much as complex as it gets. I think you missed the point
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May 23, 2011 21:45
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S.J. posted:I think you missed the point That you don't like fantasy? VVVV oh, I didn't think anybody said that itt though. It is probably more complex but that =/= subtle or intellectual, it means more mishap tables and  moments
Real hurthling! fucked around with this message at 21:52 on May 23, 2011 |
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May 23, 2011 21:47
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Real hurthling! posted:That you don't like fantasy. I love fantasy and my dwarfs, I just don't pretend that fantasy is a more subtle and intellectually involved game
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May 23, 2011 21:47
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Real hurthling! posted:oh, I didn't think anybody said that itt though. It is a common sentiment among Fantasy players though, and it is sort of perceived that 40k is a kids game and Fantasy is a more 'mature' format. This is partly because of the much more restrictive movement and facing rules that fantasy had, that were a lot less forgiving than 40k's, and led to more complicated charge baiting and placement tricks. The simplification in 8e has sort of let the air out a bit on that front.
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May 23, 2011 21:52
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Real hurthling! posted:oh, I didn't think anybody said that itt though. No, but it's a common claim. I'm reserving judgement but my impression is that it requires more luck and a grasp of different concepts than 40K but is not really deeper.
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May 23, 2011 21:52
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^^^ aware. sorry to derail Ashcans posted:It is a common sentiment among Fantasy players though, and it is sort of perceived that 40k is a kids game and Fantasy is a more 'mature' format. This is partly because of the much more restrictive movement and facing rules that fantasy had, that were a lot less forgiving than 40k's, and led to more complicated charge baiting and placement tricks. The simplification in 8e has sort of let the air out a bit on that front. certainly. sorry to derail I know about the sentiment. I typed "itt" because nobody thinks that here.
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May 23, 2011 21:53
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Real hurthling! posted:^^^ You never know where grognards might be lurking. Be vigilant, for our enemies abound.
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May 23, 2011 21:55
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Ashcans posted:It is a common sentiment among Fantasy players though, and it is sort of perceived that 40k is a kids game and Fantasy is a more 'mature' format. This is partly because of the much more restrictive movement and facing rules that fantasy had, that were a lot less forgiving than 40k's, and led to more complicated charge baiting and placement tricks. The simplification in 8e has sort of let the air out a bit on that front. This could also come from the fact that (at least in my area) fantasy players tend to be older guys with beer guts and white beards who work as unix admins during the week. The 40k crowd in my game shops is always more of a high school/college group, but even the high school kids (the ones who play fantasy at least) are sporting and have a good attitude.
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May 23, 2011 22:37
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Hey guys, I want to get rid of some Undead that have been taking up shelf space for a while, and wanted to see if any of you dudes would like to pick it up. I've got: Regiment of 24 older skeletons w/ spear and shield and tray painted, plus 4 unpainted Regiment of 30 Zombies and tray painted Regiment of 21 old OOP metal Grave Guard w/ full command and tray unpainted 4 Fell Bats without flying stands unpainted 2 Mordheim Dregs converted to count as Necromancers, painted Painting is tabletop quality. Was thinking the Zombie and Skeleton regiments could go for $40 each and the Grave Guard $50. $5 a bat and $7.50 for a Dreg.Problem is postage internationally from Australia can be murder. Each regiment would have at least $10 postage and the Grave Guard would be $15 to the US. I'd combine them where I could, of course, like the Zombies and Skellies could probably go in the one box. If anyone is interested I'll throw up some photos and make a thread in S-Mart. e: might be able to do post a bit cheaper, will have to go see what the post office has in the way of smaller pre-paid boxes. adamantium|wang fucked around with this message at 02:08 on May 24, 2011 |
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May 24, 2011 02:05
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Continuing the "No Lord Casters at less than 2,000 points" thing- I had raised the point that such a rule would really handicap Wood Elf armies, as the only Lore they have access to with a Lvl.1 or 2 caster is Athel Loren. The reply was, "Nobody's going to be playing Wood Elves." When I spoke up and said I had been considering it, one of the guys pushing for the rule said, "Well, then you'll just have to deal." It looks like the two guys who really pushed for that rule are running Tomb Kings and Warriors of Chaos. I suspect that they want to protect their large blocks of Skeletons and Nurgle Marauders from magic in hopes of dominating the low-point games. The guys who pushed for it also wanted to implement other assorted "balancing" mechanisms into the league, which thankfully were deemed as unnecessary. One of them did demanded that nobody could get outside help when building lists or playing the game, which would create problems for getting new players involved. That was the only one that ended up in the league rules, though I'm still going to be pushing to have it not apply to newbies (there are a few completely new players who want to join.) The players at this FLGS may not be as weird as at the other store, but a few of them have already come across as WAAC asshats. We'll see how things progress as the league games start.
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May 24, 2011 02:50
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How the gently caress is a no advice rule a good idea in a newbie tournament. You should pull out of this thing and take 2 friends with you and just play a round robin with them all day.
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May 24, 2011 03:01
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"No advice during games" makes sense in a competitive tournament, but not in a newbie-friendly league. 
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May 24, 2011 03:13
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The store has a lot of potential as a regular place to play (lots of room, friendly management, focus on getting new people into various games, etc.) The downside is that there seems to be that these couple of players have dominated the scene at this store for a while. There was a 40k league that ran for a year that these guys treated as their own personal tournament, scared off new people, and generally ran the league poorly. They took the lead in setting up this fantasy league. I'm on decent terms with the owner and primary worker- I used to organize and run CCG tournaments for the store a few years ago. I haven't had time to spend at the store since I got into Warhammer, and the Warhammer scene at this store hasn't been the strongest to begin with (other FLGS in the area are more popular for it.) I'm going to treat the store as my summer project- going to help make another table or two of terrain, try to introduce the interested regulars into the game, maybe run a beginner's painting workshop, and generally try to make the shop a friendly place for warhams. If I can get my beerhammer group playing regularly at the store, it should also help jumpstart things tremendously.
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May 24, 2011 03:45
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I hope you succeed! Would be great if you managed to turn a sperglord cave into a decent club
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May 24, 2011 08:36
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With all this talk of resin models I am considering buying some replacements to my metal collection. Most notably I want to replace Azhag. I absolutely love the model, and I own one in metal that is partially painted but it is ridiculously heavy, a pain in the rear end to balance and a nightmare to transport. Anyone else buying replacements for models they already own? (Anyone want to buy a metal Azhag?  )
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May 24, 2011 14:56
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Tadhg posted:Continuing the "No Lord Casters at less than 2,000 points" thing- While I still support lower point level rebalancing, this clearly isn't the correct way to pursue it. 
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May 24, 2011 15:33
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