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Working on a statutory holiday. I'm definitely getting the articling version of being a summer student. At least the weather is lovely outside?
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May 23, 2011 16:50
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Forever Zero posted:So is it really true that not having a law job for a year or two after graduation makes it incredibly difficult to get a law job in the future? If it is two years volunteering at a PD/DA with jury trials, you might actually be stronger. If it is 2 years at a legit, but non-legal, career, it will be tougher, but not impossible depending on what you were doing. If it is 2 years of sitting on a couch or a mcjob, you're hosed. Seriously, if you're going to be unemployed, go volunteer at a PD/DA/County attorney's office. Do 40 hours a week. It will make your resume so much stronger than doing nothing.
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May 23, 2011 18:57
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Davis vs. Santa Clara at $90k cheaper? Wants to do IP.
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May 24, 2011 05:52
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Absolutely Santa Clara. Both are fairly middling California law schools and the difference is not worth $90K. Also Santa Clara has a reputation of being something of an IP-heavy law school for some reason.
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May 24, 2011 06:47
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but davis is in the top 23
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May 24, 2011 06:49
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JohnnyTreachery posted:but davis is in the top 23
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May 24, 2011 06:56
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Looks like this guy stole your megathread title: http://cbanational.rogers.dgtlpub.com/2011/2011-02-28/pdf/Not_Quite_Contempt.pdf Actually he probably didn't but it's a good read nonetheless for Canadians.
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May 24, 2011 07:43
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evilweasel posted:It's why Columbia rocks, even our law review thinks bluebooking is the stupidest thing ever. The point is to remove it from the competition entirely. Based on the horror stories I've heard from folks at other law schools who also just wrapped up their entries, I really feel like I dodged a bullet. For the CLS competition, the packet of materials only consisted of a few dozen pages, the citation format was about as straightforward as it could possibly be (besides some weird quirks that seemed like they had been deliberately inserted to trip up people used to bluebook format), and we had a healthy week or so to finish it. Still, I probably spent less time than I should have on my submission. And in retrospect, it was probably a lovely idea to approach the prompt as if it were an exam question. I printed out and submitted my friend's entry since he had already left campus, and I noticed just in glancing over his subheadings that his response seemed much more creative and policy-oriented than mine. My entry was pretty much all textual analysis and analogizing from case law, with some minor discussion of policy on the side. It pretty much reads like a response to an exam hypo, except with more annotations. It occurred to me after the fact that law reviews likely aren't into that kind of thing.
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May 24, 2011 08:05
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flog montresor posted:It pretty much reads like a response to an exam hypo, except with more annotations. It occurred to me after the fact that law reviews likely aren't into that kind of thing.
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May 24, 2011 09:02
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Did this get posted yet? http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/business/24lawyers.html?hp quote:The nation’s biggest law firms are creating a second tier of workers, stripping pay and prestige from one of the most coveted jobs in the business world.
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May 24, 2011 14:02
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TyChan posted:Did this get posted yet? Yawn, nothing new: http://www.nytimes.com/1987/03/11/business/law-firms-add-second-tier.html Check out those starting salaries at Jones, Day though! Laff
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May 24, 2011 16:02
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TyChan posted:Did this get posted yet? That seems like a good idea, if only law school tuition was lowered to match the salary. Macnigore posted:Has any of you experienced taking a more laid back job, but which pays less ? Do you have any regret (friends earning 3 times your salary, bigger family and your salary is now not enough, etc) ? Life is too short to slave away for a bunch of money in a job that will put you in an early grave. I'm not jealous at all of my friends in big firms making big bucks; I know that type of work simply isn't for me. I care more for my free time spent doing things I enjoy than I ever will for work, no matter how much I am paid. Sure it'd be great to make six figures per year but the tradeoff to me just is not worth it. Besides my wife and I combined reach that anyway. I have a great 9-5 that involves traveling 5-6 times a year, pays a salary that provides for my family (thanks IBR!), and gives me plenty of (actually useable) vacation days, holidays, and other time off to spend with my family. Just this past week our Executive Director announced that unless we have pressing work to be done, it is mandatory for us to leave after a half day on Fridays starting after Memorial Day and running through Labor Day. My job is in the legal field, but is not practicing law. To get my fill of that, I am in the Army Reserve and that pads my pockets a little more without taking too much of my life away, and the retirement benefit will be a nice addition to my 401k. Ultimately big firm life was off the table for me from almost the very beginning. I didn't take law school very seriously and graduated in the middle of my class. Nevertheless, overall I am very content with the way things turned out for me although I probably wouldn't go to law school again if I had to do it over. But that is more a product of my increased understanding of what law practice is actually like. I've managed to use my JD to leverage a pretty good career in a "sattelite" profession and when I really think about it, a pretty good career was the reason I went to law school in the first place. e: re-reading this it sounds like I am bragging (maybe a little, I really do love my job) but the intention is to show that one can be satisfied with a much lower salary. Especially in France where I assume the cost of attending law school was next to nothing in the first place, removing the main stressor in such a situation. Defleshed fucked around with this message at 16:22 on May 24, 2011 |
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May 24, 2011 16:07
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Macnigore posted:Has any of you experienced taking a more laid back job, but which pays less ? Do you have any regret (friends earning 3 times your salary, bigger family and your salary is now not enough, etc) ? It's not a job I want to stay at forever, just because of the time commitment, but given that I probably only have a couple years before kids come along, I thought that I really needed to round out my resume (e.g., more deposition experience, trial experience) while I still had the opportunity to do so. And it's nice that it came with a pretty large raise. I think that's just my personality though - if I don't feel challenged, I'm pretty miserable.
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May 24, 2011 17:24
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Yawn, nothing new: There is some difference between the work that those ad-hoc staff attorneys were doing and the career associates in this current article, though. Associates doing real research, litigation writing work, and witness prep should arguably not be sustaining that kind of income differential. quote:Check out those starting salaries at Jones, Day though! Laff $52,000 was probably a drat good salary back in 1987, when New York was still in its grim and dirty phase and you could apparently buy apartment buildings near Columbia for less than $100,000. Yeah, you had to kick junkies off the steps every morning and probably carry a knife on you at all times, but it's your own building!
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May 24, 2011 18:03
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Yeah there is a difference. But adjusted for inflation, that salary is still only around $100k.
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May 24, 2011 18:27
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Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Jun 4, 2011 |
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May 24, 2011 19:22
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A friend of my girlfriend started grilling me to ask about my lawschool experience. She basically disregarded all the advice I gave her ("don't go unless you're headed to a tier 1 at least or someone related to you is holding a chair open") and told me: 1) I'm a special snowflake so I'll be employed and graduate top of my class anywhere I go; 2) I'm going to go to whatever TTT that will give me free money; 3) I want to do "international law." Its like every hipster actually believes there's some job called "International lawyer" that involves living in Paris, visiting cafes and riding to work on a bicycle, and that this fictional job requires no credentials.
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May 24, 2011 19:46
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mrtoodles posted:Davis vs. Santa Clara at $90k cheaper? Wants to do IP. Just because you make OMG dollars a year doesn't mean you should be telling people to go to law school. Angry Grimace posted:Its like every hipster actually believes there's some job called "International lawyer" that involves living in Paris, visiting cafes and riding to work on a bicycle, and that this fictional job requires no credentials.
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May 24, 2011 19:59
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nm posted:This is called being a trustafarian. Would be nice. Their education and prior work backgrounds might be the products of immensely unfair socioeconomic advantages, but those guys do tend to have some pretty good credentials.
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May 24, 2011 20:14
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Aug 11, 2021 |
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May 24, 2011 20:45
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TyChan posted:Their education and prior work backgrounds might be the products of immensely unfair socioeconomic advantages, but those guys do tend to have some pretty good credentials. I'm talking about people who live in Paris but don't really work as we know it. They may have some bullshit 20hr a week "job" but they're not5 bringing down the bucks. Yet they have a big place in the 6th arrondissement.
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May 24, 2011 20:48
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan posted:Fun story:
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May 24, 2011 21:06
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan posted:Fun story: If you ever find yourself in a serious argument about who is smarter with a "friend" of yours then one of you is a giant douchebag
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May 24, 2011 21:29
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J Miracle posted:If you ever find yourself in a serious argument about who is smarter with a "friend" of yours then one of you is a giant douchebag It takes two to tango
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May 25, 2011 00:14
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Soothing Vapors posted:seriouspost: why are you friends with this person sv which firm are you at here in the city i know you work in i just want to be friends
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May 25, 2011 01:02
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Soothing Vapors posted:How To Watch Barbri Videos At 1.6x Speed After They hosed Everything Up if this works i love you
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May 25, 2011 01:03
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Soothing Vapors posted:How To Watch Barbri Videos At 1.6x Speed After They hosed Everything Up
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May 25, 2011 01:29
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Feces Starship posted:sv which firm are you at here in the city i know you work in
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May 25, 2011 01:30
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Y'all so gay
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May 25, 2011 02:00
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Y'all so gay Phil Moscowitz posted:...Go gay
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May 25, 2011 02:11
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Angry Grimace posted:A friend of my girlfriend started grilling me to ask about my lawschool experience. She basically disregarded all the advice I gave her ("don't go unless you're headed to a tier 1 at least or someone related to you is holding a chair open") and told me: Last summer, I met someone who wanted to go to law school because she believes helping low income accused individuals will be rewarding. Since that was my job when I met her, I told her she's glorifying it and it really isn't THAT rewarding. In addition, there are plenty of other careers where she can help the low income without going into debt and selling her soul. She proceeded to ask if I've ever been in customer service because I obviously don't know what it's like to help people.  I was working the job she wanted and have been a social worker, I didn't know how much more people helping I could get. I wasn't that surprised when she added my friend (who's all for EVERYONE going to law school) on facebook and not me. Penguins Like Pies fucked around with this message at 04:12 on May 25, 2011 |
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May 25, 2011 03:35
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Macnigore posted:Has any of you experienced taking a more laid back job, but which pays less ? Do you have any regret (friends earning 3 times your salary, bigger family and your salary is now not enough, etc) ? I took a pay cut returning to government after working in a firm, and from what I've seen, people who work in firms long term have to make some tough sacrifices, whether it's family, marriage, etc., and some will hate the work that they end up doing, or the clients. They do rake in the money, and there is the prestige, but it has a non-monetary price tag. So it really depends on your personal price tag on your leisure time and stress level. Me, I'll likely never go back to private practice. However, I don't think I would have known that unless I'd done it first, to see how I fit in and how I liked it. There's a little bit of jealousy over the firm-life, though oddly it's tied less to finances and more about having to do a little more political wrangling at my current job.
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May 25, 2011 07:41
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Soothing Vapors posted:i sent an email to you but you OBV NEVER READ IT sent you a return response, sorry i didn't see your message but i never check that email address
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May 25, 2011 10:53
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Soothing Vapors posted:How To Watch Barbri Videos At 1.6x Speed After They hosed Everything Up This is also how you can watch Barbri upside down! Edit: Also duh. Old farts.
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May 25, 2011 13:39
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Abugadu posted:I took a pay cut returning to government after working in a firm, and from what I've seen, people who work in firms long term have to make some tough sacrifices, whether it's family, marriage, etc., and some will hate the work that they end up doing, or the clients. They do rake in the money, and there is the prestige, but it has a non-monetary price tag. I didn't take a paycut initially when leaving private practice, as I'm making more now than I did in a firm (I was working for smaller firms though). But my long-term earning potential is lower. Like Abugadu, I will never go back to private practice. I have no desire to make a gazillion dollars at the expense of my free time and sanity. I would be miserable, no matter how rich I was. And now, the ability to have summers entirely off if I want them is worth the decrease in earning potential. This is my third summer teaching, and I can make quite a bit of extra money doing it, but I think next year I might take the entire summer off.
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May 25, 2011 15:02
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Law thread, I have a question for you because I am shy and terrible at networking. I just graduated and am studying for the bar right now. Still unemployed (shocker? oh yeah). My boyfriend and I were out to dinner yesterday and because he is ridiculously outgoing, he struck up a conversation with the women at the table next to us and mentioned I was taking the bar soon. One of the women said, "Oh! I'm a lawyer," and asked me whether I had found a job yet. She ended up giving me her card and asking me to email her my resume with the caveat that her firm (about 50 people, she is a partner) had been considering trying to find someone with at least a year of experience for the spot. Still, I didn't even ask about a job opportunity, and she definitely didn't have to give me her card. I have nothing to lose by sending a resume even though I'm not really expecting anything to come of it. I'm just unsure of how formal to make the email--I feel like considering how I met her, a formal cover letter might be too much, but I don't want to be unprofessional or say the wrong thing... Also my grades are not great, but I've done really well at my internships (DA's office, judge's chambers) and all of my supervisors have been pleased with my work, and I know they have given me good references in the past. My boyfriend also suggested that I ask her if I could take her out to coffee and pick her brain about job hunting, but I'm afraid that would be overstepping the bounds? I am terrible at networking. 
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May 25, 2011 17:12
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A Game of Chess posted:Law thread, I have a question for you because I am shy and terrible at networking. 1)I'd make it pretty formal but not a cover letter. Think business casual. Do try to sneak in 'everyone I've worked with loves me' somewhere, though. 2)This couldn't hurt except that you're currently looking for a job *there* so phrasing this correctly will be tricky. Something like an "on a personal note, I was really fascinated by your story about {whatever} - would you have time for coffee?" might work. Don't mention job hunting in the email, but feel free to talk about it during lunch if you don't hear back from them immediately after your resume's in*. *I would also avoid putting your GPA anywhere. You're interviewing with a 50 person firm based on one personal contact. If they want your grades, they can ask for them, but hopefully not before you wow them with your people skills.
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May 25, 2011 17:31
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Adar posted:Helpful stuff Awesome, thank you. That is basically what I was thinking in the first place, so good to know I was on the right track. That's what I was worried about. I think he was making the suggestion based on networking advice we've gotten from a friend who works at the local branch of a BigLaw firm (email a partner who went to my school, ask to take them out to coffee, because they love talking about the alma mater/giving advice etc.) but that's a totally different situation since there's no way in hell I could get hired there, no matter who I talked to, haha. I think right now I'll just concentrate on writing a good email and see how things for from there.
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May 25, 2011 17:42
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Penguins Like Pies posted:Last summer, I met someone who wanted to go to law school because she believes helping low income accused individuals will be rewarding. Since that was my job when I met her, I told her she's glorifying it and it really isn't THAT rewarding. In addition, there are plenty of other careers where she can help the low income without going into debt and selling her soul. working legal aid you'll spend most of your time feeling like another tooth on the gear that grinds poor people up and that your efforts often serve only to legitimize the functions of an illegitimate system that criminalizes the marginalized and poor I mean yeah sure we just tossed away this 16 year old kid for multiple B&Es. sure he is an alcoholic and has no home and if we solved both those issues he wouldn't be a criminal issue but we don't have the resources to solve those issues and do have the resources to prosecute his rear end. So we prosecuted him, he got a defense, he's convicted, hooray justice is served, society gets its own. criminal justice success! There are some real opportunities for advocacy and fightin' the power in helping indigent accused but much more often it's just taking the hand of a dude who's been arrested for beating his common law once or twice a year every year for the last 20 years and guiding him through the steps along the familiar path to jail print this off and staple it to her stupid fat forehead hypocrite lecteur fucked around with this message at 19:30 on May 25, 2011 |
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May 25, 2011 18:07
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Lilosh posted:It's melting my brain. And I haven't even looked at the footnotes yet. That means it"s "working." Every citation I put in our petition packet was intended to inflict severe emotional distress. They know no one really writes like that, they just want to see who can deal with it. Trust me, some people can't. Blakkout fucked around with this message at 18:49 on May 25, 2011 |
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May 25, 2011 18:45
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