Fatkraken posted:

I have question with regards to Womens prisons in the US.

What are they like?

quote:

One-third of children who were so "freed" from their biological parents in New York City between 2000 and 2004 were not adopted, according to a report published in 2006 by the Women in Prison Project of the Correctional Association of New York. They stayed in foster care. These children are "legal orphans," children who have a parent but whose relationship to their parent is no longer recognized by the state.

...

government agencies simply do not know how many children are in foster care because their parents are in prison, nor how many parents' rights have been terminated for this reason.

Phoenix New Times posted:

Michelle McCollum was in the first trimester of her pregnancy when she awaited trial in 2005 for possession of marijuana. She later pleaded guilty and was sentenced to probation. McCollum blames unchecked violence and delayed medical care for the loss of her pregnancy. On August 21, 2005, she was attacked by two other inmates, she says in an affidavit filed in the lawsuit that recently found jail conditions unconstitutional.

Two inmates punched McCollum in the stomach repeatedly. After the attack, she and another inmate cried to guards for help. But McCollum writes that detention officers refused to bring her to the infirmary — even after she told them she was pregnant and injured.

Three days after the attack, McCollum's bleeding wouldn't stop. She was finally taken to the Maricopa County Hospital. There, doctors said she had miscarried and ordered that she return to the hospital for a checkup.

Despite her reminders, jail personnel did not take McCollum back to the hospital. On September 17, she began bleeding again. The bleeding wouldn't stop.

An ambulance finally rushed McCollum back to the hospital — where doctors gave her a blood transfusion because she had lost so much blood. Then they performed a procedure called a D&C, which removed the remains of the pregnancy.

quote:

The nurse told her to go immediately to the infirmary. So Spencer got ready for a trip to medical.

Then she waited. The sergeant on duty decided that Spencer was not top priority, he said later in a sheriff's report about the incident.

About an hour after she requested help, Spencer was escorted to the infirmary. The one healthcare professional on the premises, a nurse, took Spencer's blood pressure. She also detected the baby's heartbeat, around 4 a.m. The nurse — who later admitted she had no prenatal training — told Spencer that she'd be going to the hospital, but she also decided that Spencer's pain was not an emergency.

Another hour later, Spencer passed out. The nurse took her blood pressure again; it was fatally low. The nurse called an ambulance and tried to get an IV into Spencer's arm. She couldn't. When EMT Jarrid Ortiz arrived, Spencer, who is African-American, had lost so much color it was clear to him that it was an emergency. "If you are turning that color, you're not getting enough blood to your organs and skin," Ortiz later told a sheriff's detective.

By the time the ambulance arrived at the Maricopa County Hospital, Spencer had been in severe pain and without a doctor for almost four hours. Doctors delivered Ambria Renee Spencer, a 9-pound baby girl with a quarter-inch of thick hair on her head.

Ambria was dead.

Texas Jail Project posted:

Sarah remembers that the floor workers often handled red bags that had HIV diapers in them and things of that sort. When they were finished with the trash, they had to go serve food, and they didn't have access to a good way to wash their hands.

...

While Sarah was in the medical tank waiting to be seen, she saw one girl who was said to be coming off heroin. She was lying in her own feces, seemingly unconscious, and the other women said she had been there for days. Sarah sat on the floor next to a woman who was pregnant with twins. The pregnant woman waited 4-6 hours before even being seen—cramping, in pain, bleeding through her pants onto the floor and extremely upset. Sarah remembers the woman repeating how scared she was that she might lose her babies. Sarah and other women in the room kept telling the guards to take this pregnant woman first. The guards only replied with things along the lines of "Shut the gently caress up, the bitch shouldn't have gotten herself in here to begin with. This is jail, not a country club."

...

Sarah saw Officer Otto grab the woman by the back of her neck again and slam her face into the floor. By this point, Sarah had ducked into a utility closet because "You don't really want an officer to know you've seen them do something like this." Sarah heard the woman scream at him, "You fucker, I'm pregnant." When the woman stood up, Sarah saw that her face was all bloody and busted and her braces were hanging out of her mouth. Sarah also saw that the woman was pregnant and showing.

quote:

After being wrongfully arrested and taken to a Philadelphia lock-up, Erica and her female friend were forced to perform sex acts on one another by a police officer. Although she faced tremendous barriers in her efforts to hold the Philadelphia Police Department accountable, a recent independent investigation substantiated her allegations.

quote:

An immigration official forced Esmeralda (formerly Mayra), a transgender woman, to perform oral sex on him while she was in the custody of an Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention facility. The official later resigned and was sentenced to four months in jail. After reporting the abuse, Ms. Soto suffered various forms of retaliation and often feared for her life. Ms. Soto, who came to the U.S. seeking asylum, had also been raped by a male inmate while detained at a jail in her native Mexico. She currently resides in Southern California.

quote:

Transferred with 77 other female inmates from Oregon to a private prison in Arizona, Barrilee immediately noticed the sexualized environment in the facility. Male officers verbally harassed female prisoners, watched them showering, and demanded sexual favors. An officer who claimed to be looking out for her instead raped Barrilee, and she faced retaliation for reporting the attack.

quote:

While in the custody of the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, Thomas was sexually assaulted by another inmate. After filing a report and being rebuffed by corrections staff, he suffered various forms of retaliation as he attempted to navigate a difficult inmate grievance process. Since being released from custody, he has continued to fight for the rights of California inmates.

quote:

Cecilia, a transgender woman, was raped while held over the weekend in a San Francisco jail. Her story is similar to many transgender women, who are at extreme risk for sexual violence behind bars, as they are usually placed in men's facilities based on their birth gender or genitalia. She now is a nationally recognized activist defending transgender people's right to be free of violence and abuse.

quote:

Michelle is a 62 year old, transgender woman who was arrested in late 2006 and placed in the men’s wing of the Los Angeles County Jail. At the time of her arrest, she had very limited mobility. During Michelle’s confinement, she was denied the use of her wheelchair. Other detainees were prohibited from helping Michelle and she was forced to move about without assistance, falling on multiple occasions. One day while in the shower, she was surrounded and threatened with rape by four other inmates. The attempted sexual assault was interrupted when Michelle’s partner entered the shower and was able to fend off the would-be assailants. Michelle has been released and resides in Hollywood, CA.

quote:

The Maricopa County Attorney's Office has chosen not to prosecute Arizona Department of Corrections staff in the death of inmate Marcia Powell.

Powell, 48, died May 20, 2009, after being kept in a human cage in Goodyear's Perryville Prison for at least four hours in the blazing Arizona sun. This, despite a prison policy limiting such outside confinement to a maximum of two hours.

The county medical examiner found the cause of death to be due to complications from heat exposure. Her core body temperature upon examination was 108 degrees Fahrenheit. She suffered burns and blisters all over her body.

Witnesses say she was repeatedly denied water by corrections officers, though the c.o.'s deny this. The weather the day she collapsed from the heat (May 19 -- she died in the early morning hours of May 20) arched just above a 107 degree high.

According to a 3,000 page report released by the ADC, she pleaded to be taken back inside, but was ignored. Similarly, she was not allowed to use the restroom. When she was found unconscious, her body was covered with excrement from soiling herself.

Powell, who was serving a 27-month sentence for prostitution, actually expired after being transported to West Valley Hospital, where acting ADC Director Charles Ryan made the decision to have her life support suspended.

(Ryan lacked the authority to do this, but that's another story, which you can read about, here.)

ADC conducted its own criminal investigation into Powell's agonizing demise. The information I have indicates that ADC submitted its conclusions to the county attorney earlier this year. (Please see update below.) ADC was seeking charges of negligent homicide against at least seven c.o.'s, as well as related charges against other prison staff.

Why didn't the county attorney's office pursue those charges? Apparently, they didn't think they could prevail in court.

County attorney spokesman Bill Fitzgerald issued the following terse statement.

"There is insufficient evidence to go forward with a prosecution against any of the named individuals," he e-mailed me, declining to elaborate further.

Donna Hamm of the advocacy group Middle Ground Prison Reform wasn't buying it.

"Having read the bulk of those 3,000 pages of reports," she told me, "if someone in a prosecutorial position can't find a crime in those pages, they have absolutely no credibility in my opinion."

Hamm noted that guards passed Powell several times throughout her stay in the cage, and that some mocked her pleas for water. As for c.o. claims that Powell was given water, Hamm countered that Powell's eyes "were as dry as parchment," and that the autopsy results show there was no sign of hydration.

Hamm was incredulous that the county attorney couldn't find enough evidence to bring charges.

"It's just beyond comprehension," she stated. "This is the same office that has prosecuted mothers who left their babies in a couple of inches of water to go outside and take a cell phone call or look in the mail."

She also cited the case of "Buffalo Soldier" Charles Long, who was prosecuted by the MCAO for negligent homicide in the 2001 death of a kid who had enrolled in his program for troubled teens and died after being exposed to the heat and put in a bath, where he inhaled water.

The ADC did make some reforms in the wake of Powell's death. It was discovered that the cages were being used to control unruly prisoners, and the ADC claims this practice has stopped. However, Hamm says she has uncovered a case of a man in a Tucson facility who, earlier this year, was held all day and overnight in an outside cage.

Some 16 prison employees were sanctioned in one way or another as a result of the Powell incident, and some were fired. But Hamm says she believes some of those sanctioned have been reinstated.

The outdoor cages are still in use, but have been retrofitted to provide shade, misters, water stations, and benches, which, ironically, Hamm says are metal, and would thus soak up the heat. She's toured ADC facilities to see the redone cages, and admits that changes are positive, but too late to save Powell's life, obviously.

"All the retrofitting in the world is worthless if the staff doesn't follow the policy," she insisted.

Powell had been diagnosed as mentally ill, and was on more than one psychotropic drug, drugs that increased her sensitivity to heat, sunlight and lack of water. All the more reason, according to Hamm, that prison staff should be held accountable.

The only next of kin that was located for Powell was an aged, adoptive mother in California, who had not had contact with Powell for years, and did not want to take possession of the remains.

So, with the help of Hamm and others, Powell's ashes were interred last year at Phoenix's Shadow Rock Church of Christ.

Brophy College Preparatory School also dedicated a plaque to Powell on school grounds this year.

But with no one with standing to bring a federal lawsuit (Hamm says the deadline for a state lawsuit has expired), and with the MCAO unwilling to bring a case against those responsible for Powell's well-being, there looks to be no justice for the schizophrenic deceased woman.

I asked Hamm what this means for the case.

"It means they've gotten away with the most colossal example of brutality I have seen against a female prisoner in the history of the Arizona Department of Corrections," remarked Hamm, adding, "And they got off scot-free."

HenryKrinkle posted:

Woman Says Arpaio Locked Her Up With Men

quote:

State Findings
Overall grades: Averaging the grades for prenatal care, shackling, and family-based treatment as an alternative to incarceration, twenty-one states received either a D or F, both of which are considered failing grades. Twenty-two states received a grade of C, and seven received a B. The highest overall grade of A- was earned by one state—Pennsylvania.

Prenatal care: Thirty-eight states received failing grades (D/F) for their failure to institute adequate policies, or any policies at all, requiring that incarcerated pregnant women receive adequate prenatal care, despite the fact that many women in prison have higher-risk pregnancies.

• Forty-three states do not require medical examinations as a component of prenatal care.
  
• Forty-one states do not require prenatal nutrition counseling or the provision of appropriate nutrition to incarcerated pregnant women.
  
• Thirty-four states do not require screening and treatment for women with high risk pregnancies.
  
• Forty-eight states do not offer pregnant women screening for HIV.
  
• Forty-five states do not offer pregnant women advice on activity levels and safety during their pregnancies.
  
• Forty-four states do not make advance arrangements for deliveries with particular hospitals.
  
• Forty-nine states fail to report all incarcerated women’s pregnancies and their outcomes.
  

Shackling: Thirty-six states received failing grades (D/F) for their failure to comprehensively limit, or limit at all, the use of restraints on pregnant women during transportation, labor and delivery and postpartum recuperation.

There has been a recent increase in states adopting laws that address shackling, now totaling ten. Of the states without laws to address shackling:

• Twenty-two states either have no policy at all addressing when restraints can be used on pregnant women or have a policy which allows for the use of dangerous leg irons or waist chains.
  
• When a pregnant woman is placed in restraints for security reasons, eleven states either allow any officer to make the determination or do not have a policy on who determines whether the woman is a security risk.
  
• Thirty-one states do not require input from medical staff when determining whether restraints will be used.
  
• Twenty-four states do not require training for individuals handling and transporting incarcerated persons needing medical care or those dealing with pregnant women specifically, or have no policy on training.
  
• Thirty-one states do not have a policy that holds institutions accountable for shackling pregnant women without adequate justification.
  
• Thirty-four states do not require each incident of the use of restraints to be reported or reviewed by an independent body.
  

Family-Based Treatment as an Alternative to Incarceration: Seventeen states received a failing grade (F) for their lack of adequate access to family-based treatment programs for non-violent women who are parenting.

• Seventeen states have no family-based treatment programs, while thirty-four states make such programs available.
  
• Of the thirty-four states with family-based treatment programs, thirty-two offered women the option to be sentenced to these programs in lieu of prison, while two did not.
  

Prison Nurseries: Thirty-eight states received failing grades (D/F) for failing to offer prison nurseries to new
mothers who are incarcerated. While a far less preferred option than alternative sentencing, prison nursery programs still provide some opportunity for mother-child bonding and attachment.

• Thirty-eight states do not offer any prison nursery programs.
  
• Of the thirteen states that do offer such programs, only two allow children to stay past the age of two.
  
• Three of the thirteen programs offer therapeutic services for both mother and child.
  

Gorilla Salad posted:

Oh, gently caress me.

Fungah posted:

Inmates were talking openly in front of guards about how they have to fight to establish a hierarchy and how they would extort weaker prisoners for money.

quote:

Riot at Calif's San Quentin leaves 4 hospitalized
Monday, May 23, 2011
(05-23) 03:39 PDT San Quentin, Calif. (AP) --

Nearly 200 inmates at San Quentin State Prison rioted in the dining hall, leaving at least four men wounded and hospitalized.

The four inmates had stab or slash wounds after the melee broke out Sunday night among 184 men, prison spokesman Lt. Samuel Robinson said in a statement.

Guards stopped the brawl using non-lethal bullets and pepper spray, and found at least 10 weapons made by inmates in the aftermath, he said.

There was no word on what sparked the rioting or further information on the condition of the injured.

Robinson said many others had minor injuries, but did not give a number. No guards were hurt.

San Quentin, in Marin County north of San Francisco, is the state's oldest prison and houses nearly 5,000 men, including those on death row.

The riot came just two days after another riot at California State Prison, Sacramento, left six inmates injured, including two seriously, prison officials said.

The fight Friday among about 150 inmates at an outdoor recreation yard was broken up after guards fired a warning shot and used pepper spray.

Officials said dozens of other inmates suffered less serious injuries and were treated at the prison.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/05/23/national/a005326D75.DTL#ixzz1NDEYFOFG

quote:

There was no word on what sparked the rioting or further information on the condition of the injured.

HELLO THERE posted:

When people are crammed together like cattle and fed mustard sandwiches for years, do they need a spark to riot?

OG KUSH BLUNTS posted:

After reading a lot of this thread, Joe Arpaio needs to be put on trial for crimes against humanity and thrown in ADX for the rest of his wretched existence. There aren't many people that embody pure evil, but he is definitely among the gold standard in which to judge that by.

joat mon posted:

Let's not be silly. While you won't find that in either The Wealth of Nations or in the 1844 Manuscripts, both Socialist and Capitalist nations have prisons.

Societies of any appreciable size, no matter where on the spectrum, lead to prisons. Anarchists don't need prisons because when it comes down to it, there's no anarchist society larger than one. Socialist anarchists don't need prisons, because the biggest you can get is about 200 people, and banishment works for a society that small.

Capitalism has plenty of problems - but creating prisons isn't one of them.

It sucks, but we're stuck with prisons - and it's better than good old-fashioned lex talionis. The useful mission is to make prisons as rarely-used, rehabilitative and not-bad as we can. A giant first step would be to end the 'one strike and you're essentially unemployable for life - welcome to the underclass' system.

Captain Cancer posted:

Having unfortunately been in Jail in the US (I'm a UK national who did something incredibly stupid while on holiday) the NY jail was much much better than what was depicted on Louis Theroux's documentary.

I don't know whether that's because I was eventually (after nearly three days of sleeping on a floor in a variety of 'pens') moved to a block full of pretty chill, non violent dudes, or whether the conditions are generally just much better. I ended up being in a cell by myself (the cells were fitted out with only one bed), and then having to chill in a communal area during the day.

The guys were actually friendly to the point of giving me pointers on how to behave and how to survive if my case went any further. Rules of basketball, dominos and a cookie from an Italian American guy were provided also. I was naive at the time about accepting favours, but there didn't seem to be any sinister atmosphere, unlike in the pens where one guy in particular was rounding up people for the slices of cheese out of their sandwiches. Thankfully my appetite isn't what it usually is, so it wasn't a problem. I swapped most of my food for cartons of warm milk.

One guy who was in there for over 2 years even gave me his stock of teabags as he thought I'd appreciate them more, being English and all. Even better, one guy who was covered in egyptian tattoos and a headdress made out of a sheet with a seemingly encyclopaedic knowledge of New York streets told me the address of my hostel which I had trouble tracking down, so I could phone them.

Really not sure if that's the case across the board in the 'tombs', but I guess I must have been in a particularly low security unit to be allowed access to boiling hot water on demand. I was in there for a felony too, which was downgraded to a couple of misdemeanors - whether that makes any difference. I'm also not sure what effect me being a novelty for the predominantly black occupants were, but I'm a pretty quiet guy and I was made to feel really popular. Everyone wanted to know my story, so that part was quite unsettling.

It was a hell of an experience, and I'm just thankful I wasn't a drunken idiot down in Miami instead, I would have been chewed up

Dominion posted:

I don't want to dismiss or downplay your experience, but jail and prison can be very different places. How long were you incarcerated?

Dominion posted:

I don't want to dismiss or downplay your experience, but jail and prison can be very different places. How long were you incarcerated?

E: \/\/\/ So it was, my fault.

HidingFromGoro posted:

I was talking with a guy who I'll call Ernie about psychological conditioning and recruitment at companies/military and the similarities between that and what is used in prison gangs. Ernie was born in Mexico, but is considered an OTM (Other Than Mexican), because most of his background is "Indian." He spent most of his adult life in AZ and CA prisons, and almost all of that time as a soldier in a Chicano prison gang (breeding notwithstanding). He looks a little like you'd expect a middle-aged gang veteran to look, but is now free from prison, speaks five languages, and is a medicine man/oral historian. He told me some stories about the old days- and the new.

quote:

http://www.alternet.org/story/150777/defense_contractors_using_prison_labor_to_build_high-tech_weapons_systems?page=entire

summary/abstract posted:

We estimate the causal effect of prison conditions on recidivism rates by exploiting
a discontinuity in the assignment of federal prisoners to security levels. Inmates
housed in higher security levels are no less likely to recidivate than those housed in
minimum security; if anything, our estimates suggest that harsher prison conditions
lead to more post-release crime. Though small sample sizes limit the precision of our
estimates, we argue that our findings may have important implications for prison
policy, and that our methodology is likely to be applicable beyond the particular
context we study.

Dreylad posted:

It would be fascinating to get a sense of the oral tradition and oral history that exists within prisons. Sadly there's been little academic work, although oral history is often used as a way to give voice to marginalized groups, and academics are getting better with ceding editorial and even authorial control to the people they're talking to. If I did work in the states I'd really would start thinking of ways to build projects around prison oral tradition/history.


Another wonderful collision between the military-industrial and prison-industrial complexes.

OG KUSH BLUNTS posted:

How could anyone be surprised by the fact that someone that's stuck in a cage for 23 hours a day, fed food that barely registers as nutrition, and treated like a wild rabid animal goes out and reoffends immediately?

mobby_6kl posted:

Louis Theroux (of San Quentin, Black Nationalists, Most Hated Family docu fame) goes to a Miami jail. No video (yet, as far as I know), but there's an article up on BBC. It's very... interesting

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13457576

coolskillrex remix posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px2kTQKZaSU

Interested in hearing what everyones opinion of this is.

Walking away from the documentary i get the impression that essentially all of these guys are in jail because they have lawyers that are prolonging the cases. Am i wrong?

Bullmoorray a WoW Player posted:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2593039713

Im pretty sure Im done now... Sucking my time and money is one thing, but vicariously supporting forced labor is another.

The Guardian posted:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/25/china-prisoners-internet-gaming-scam

As a prisoner at the Jixi labour camp, Liu Dali would slog through tough days breaking rocks and digging trenches in the open cast coalmines of north-east China. By night, he would slay demons, battle goblins and cast spells.

Liu says he was one of scores of prisoners forced to play online games to build up credits that prison guards would then trade for real money. The 54-year-old, a former prison guard who was jailed for three years in 2004 for "illegally petitioning" the central government about corruption in his hometown, reckons the operation was even more lucrative than the physical labour that prisoners were also forced to do.

"Prison bosses made more money forcing inmates to play games than they do forcing people to do manual labour," Liu told the Guardian. "There were 300 prisoners forced to play games. We worked 12-hour shifts in the camp. I heard them say they could earn 5,000-6,000rmb [£470-570] a day. We didn't see any of the money. The computers were never turned off."

Memories from his detention at Jixi re-education-through-labour camp in Heilongjiang province from 2004 still haunt Liu. As well as backbreaking mining toil, he carved chopsticks and toothpicks out of planks of wood until his hands were raw and assembled car seat covers that the prison exported to South Korea and Japan. He was also made to memorise communist literature to pay off his debt to society.

But it was the forced online gaming that was the most surreal part of his imprisonment. The hard slog may have been virtual, but the punishment for falling behind was real.

"If I couldn't complete my work quota, they would punish me physically. They would make me stand with my hands raised in the air and after I returned to my dormitory they would beat me with plastic pipes. We kept playing until we could barely see things," he said.

It is known as "gold farming", the practice of building up credits and online value through the monotonous repetition of basic tasks in online games such as World of Warcraft. The trade in virtual assets is very real, and outside the control of the games' makers. Millions of gamers around the world are prepared to pay real money for such online credits, which they can use to progress in the online games.

The trading of virtual currencies in multiplayer games has become so rampant in China that it is increasingly difficult to regulate. In April, the Sichuan provincial government in central China launched a court case against a gamer who stole credits online worth about 3000rmb.

The lack of regulations has meant that even prisoners can be exploited in this virtual world for profit.

According to figures from the China Internet Centre, nearly £1.2bn of make- believe currencies were traded in China in 2008 and the number of gamers who play to earn and trade credits are on the rise.

It is estimated that 80% of all gold farmers are in China and with the largest internet population in the world there are thought to be 100,000 full-time gold farmers in the country.

In 2009 the central government issued a directive defining how fictional currencies could be traded, making it illegal for businesses without licences to trade. But Liu, who was released from prison before 2009 believes that the practice of prisoners being forced to earn online currency in multiplayer games is still widespread.

"Many prisons across the north-east of China also forced inmates to play games. It must still be happening," he said.

"China is the factory of virtual goods," said Jin Ge, a researcher from the University of California San Diego who has been documenting the gold farming phenomenon in China. "You would see some exploitation where employers would make workers play 12 hours a day. They would have no rest through the year. These are not just problems for this industry but they are general social problems. The pay is better than what they would get for working in a factory. It's very different," said Jin.

"The buyers of virtual goods have mixed feelings … it saves them time buying online credits from China," said Jin.

The emergence of gold farming as a business in China – whether in prisons or sweatshops could raise new questions over the exporting of goods real or virtual from the country.

"Prison labour is still very widespread – it's just that goods travel a much more complex route to come to the US these days. And it is not illegal to export prison goods to Europe, said Nicole Kempton from the Laogai foundation, a Washington-based group which opposes the forced labour camp system in China.

Liu Dali's name has been changed

Syrix, a professional WoW forum troll posted:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2593039713#11

I never understood how one can break the law, but expect to be treated as equal to those that obey the law.

If you are in jail, it means you failed to adhere to the rules set up by other members of society, and are basically saying that you cannot live as a civilized member of society. You are basically an animal, and do not deserve these things called 'human rights'. Why should someone be allowed to say, @@#! a girl, beat her until she can't be recognized, then expect to get 3 meals a day, access to a gym, free healthcare, free education, and make an income? There are people in this world that work their rear end off and don't get this kind of treatment.

Overcrowding prisons isn't because of strict laws, it's because people realize they can live better in jail than living while obeying the law.

So sorry for having little pity for this guy, he chose not to follow what his government tells him what is right and wrong. Now that he is feeling the consequences of his failure to obey the law, he doesn't like it, and hoping crying about it will help.

Hadassalu, who probably means well posted:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2593039713#12

OMG, I hopre you're a young kid, because I fear for the world's future if you think CHINA is some sort of loving daddy that pats their people's heads and gives em a little patter on the butt when they do something wrong. This is a COMMUNIST country.

These are the people that are killing their own children because they're girls and not boys, you know?

Wow, it's terrifying how far some live under their rocks nowadays.

Shirx, has got Syrix's back posted:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2593039713#13

How is this blizzard's fault? How is this our fault for just playing WoW?

Sorry but I have no sympathy AT ALL for this story. So now I'm supposed to cry over PRISONERS....?

Nope sorry .... my sympathy is reserved for people who at least are not presumed to be CRIMINALS in the first place....

Voranus posted:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2593039713#14

if one those guys in prison got in jail by robbing you i doubt you would care.

Syrix, taking the side of moral relativists everywhere posted:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2593039713#16

don't see how you get to decide how another country handles it's own affairs. I sure hope you are from North America, because China has been around for many thousands of years before North America even 'existed'.

It's terrifying how people think they can decide how other countries should operate.

While the killing of babies is completely unacceptable, the practice of one child per family is in place for a reason. It's called population control, something that many countries should look at in hopes to save non-renewable resources.

But I guess a kid like me wouldn't know anything about that right?

Hadassalu, taking up the White Knight Standard posted:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2593039713#18

You honestly think that most of these prisoners are there because they were tried FAIRLY in a COMMUNIST country?

Are all of you kids that think jsut because a government has a prison system that it's fair and honest?? heck, our OWn system isn't honest most of the time either, and we're a democratic republic.

Wow, I'm glad I cancelled my sub, because if these are kinds of people playing this game I won't support it anymore.

Hadassalu, the First Page Godwin! posted:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2593039713#20

Do you have a photo of Hitler above your bed or something? "Hail"? "Goverment makes right"?

Syrix, that loveable scamp posted:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2593039713?page=2#37

Criminals shouldn't have human rights. Lets say some criminal attacked your mom while she was out for a late night walk. How would you feel if her attacker gets 25 years in jail, but while they are in there, they gets;

3 meals a day
Access to gym
Access to TV/Internet
Access to education
Place to sleep every night
A small income for when prisoner is released

I don't know about you, but I would be serious upset over this.

But hey, if you want criminals who can't follow the law better treatment than those who do, well I hope you enjoy your elevated crime rates. Homeless people are already breaking the law wherever they can so they can stay in jail for a couple months.

Junior G-man posted:

Does this thread still have an offsite hosting? I'd like to show it to some people without all the non-member ad interstitials.

The one in the OP (reidscones.com) is dead ...

Piell posted:

Right here

HidingFromGoro posted:

I periodically repost the news articles and some of my longer posts at the re-think america blog, also home to financial and economic articles by dm and Dante.

joat mon posted:

joat mon posted:

OG KUSH BLUNTS posted:

How could anyone be surprised by the fact that someone that's stuck in a cage for 23 hours a day, fed food that barely registers as nutrition, and treated like a wild rabid animal goes out and reoffends immediately?

nessin posted:

To counter-point, how could anyone be surprised that someone who does something bad enough that we'd want to stick them in a cage for 23 hours a day, fed food that barely registers as nutrition, and treated like a wild rabid animal goes out and reoffends immediately?

nessin posted:

To counter-point, how could anyone be surprised that someone who does something bad enough that we'd want to stick them in a cage for 23 hours a day, fed food that barely registers as nutrition, and treated like a wild rabid animal goes out and reoffends immediately?

HidingFromGoro posted:

If the OP comes back, maybe he can take out the reidscones link and put those two in the OP instead.

quote:

He said the days of provincial inmates watching HD TV and participating in yoga classes are over.

nm posted:

Yeah, they shouldn't have had that pot or committed an estes robbery (this is a shoplift where the loss prevention officer blocks the defendant's path, the defendant pushes him out of the way -- even the slightest touch can be enough).

quote:

Because selling pot has much less of an effect on someone's future behavior than being imprisoned for 23 hours a day, being fed food that barely registers as nutrition and being treated like a wild rabid animal?

nessin posted:

In the context of my argument, which has no qualifer or assocaition with a specific crime, both of your statements read as "The crime in question should not be punishable with a jail sentence."

Edit:
If that is what you meant, then how are you responsing to my point at all? My point is simply that if society says this person did something bad enough to be put into prison then that should mean something long-term. If you bring a specific crime into it then the question isn't "Isn't that unfair to people who get jailed for this" it becomes "why are we jailing people for this given what jail means"?

BattleMaster posted:

Slavery might be coming to my province. Ontario provincial Conservative leader Tim Hudak wants to put provincial inmates to work picking up garbage and cleaning graffit. 40 hour work weeks, no word on pay.

Rutibex posted:

You miss the point. No one deserves to be stick in a cage for 23 hours a day, fed food that barely registers as nutrition, and treated like a wild rabid animal. It doesn't accomplish anything beyond sating primitive revenge instincts and it damages the moral character of the guards and administrators who are forced to dehumanize their victims in order to conduct their jobs.

nessin posted:

No one deserves to be murdered because some nutjob with a gun wanted to kill someone. No one deserves to be mugged. Need I go on?

Slack Motherfucker posted:

Seriously? "Oh it's okay, prisoners are subhuman monsters and crazy people, so locking them up like a rabid animal is okay"? Why don't we just summarily execute anyone convicted of a crime?

Oh right it's because the united states justice system is hilariously racist and has a vested interest, thanks to the for-profit prison system, in maximizing the number of people in jail. Have you read this thread at all?