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ASSTASTIC
Apr 27, 2003

Hey Gusy!

MrPete posted:

Well fellas, the wood miner was a bit of a bust. For all the scary warnings and whatnot it was pretty tame. No worse than freehanding a router in my opinion.



That's a piece of camphor I was using as a test. It took the wood away OK but nothing spectacular. Did work a bit better on a bit of lovely pine from an old pallet.

Anyhoo, time to pony up and just buy the Arbortech wood carver like I wanted to in the first place!

http://www.amazon.com/King-Arthurs-45822-Lancelot-center/dp/B0000224SJ

EFB: Check that poo poo out. I have one and its retardly scary having a loving chainsaw spinning at 10k.

Also, I'm in the market for a nice bench soldering station. What do people recommend? Weller vs Hakko?

ASSTASTIC fucked around with this message at 18:26 on May 25, 2011

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kafkasgoldfish
Jan 26, 2006

God is the sweat running down his back...

GEMorris posted:

To me this is the biggest issue anyone who isn't "anti-gubmit" should have. I'm not sure if any auto safety innovations (seat belts, airbags, etc) have been in the same situation in the past or not.

However, as with all granted monopolies, the government should be in a position to regulate them. But good luck with that in this political climate.

There are lots of ways to prevent table saw injuries and giving Sawstop a veritable blank check isn't the best solution.

Could Adam Thull have avoided having his arm cut off if he didn't remove the blade guard? Probably. I wonder, are blade guards required or is it a voluntary thing in the industry? Maybe he should have spent an extra $100 buying a saw with a blade guard :smug: or simply, maybe blade guards should be required which would be an easy common-sense thing to comply to. OR maybe a warning should have been put on it warning people to not place their saws under rickety wood storage.

Government regulation on something as trite as a home wood working tool is silly. People have the choice to buy saws with those safety features today. If this regulation was really what the consumer wanted, why doesn't everyone own a Sawstop already? My lovely aluminum craftsman gets me by fine for ripping the occasional board or batch job. I think people will resent (because I would) having to pay an extra $100 bucks (who says it won't be $200 when all is said and done) for a single safety feature that can be realized with good shop practices.

I guess I'm heartless, ten (likely preventable) injuries a day doesn't sound like a big deal. Hell, apparently nearly 18,000 people are injured everyday in auto accidents. Maybe it'd be 18,000 deaths a day without regulation but probably not. I would bet that lots of people pay extra for safety features in automobiles. I did.

tl;dr anti-gubmit

Dielectric
May 3, 2010

ASSTASTIC posted:

http://www.amazon.com/King-Arthurs-45822-Lancelot-center/dp/B0000224SJ

EFB: Check that poo poo out. I have one and its retardly scary having a loving chainsaw spinning at 10k.


Notice that the first review (4 stars!) includes a trip to the ER. :black101:

ibpooks
Nov 4, 2005
It's actually pretty surprising to me that (workman's comp) insurance companies haven't yet mandated SawStop saws in professional shops.

quote:

I wonder, are blade guards required or is it a voluntary thing in the industry?

Blade guards and recently (as of year or two ago) splitters/riving knives are mandatory on all table saws sold in the US.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

ibpooks posted:

Blade guards and recently (as of year or two ago) splitters/riving knives are mandatory on all table saws sold in the US.

Fine Woodworking's website has a very informative video about riving knives and splitters, along with a pretty impressive demonstration of forced kickback.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/ToolGuide/ToolGuideArticle.aspx?id=31896

Anubis
Oct 9, 2003

It's hard to keep sand out of ears this big.
Fun Shoe

ibpooks posted:

It's actually pretty surprising to me that (workman's comp) insurance companies haven't yet mandated SawStop saws in professional shops.

Certain companies give fairly substantial discounts to people using Stop Saws already, honestly for a pro shop I can't understand why anyone wouldn't buy them. Even if the workman's comp insurance pays for the injuries and rehab you are still missing an employee and hence losing money when they are out.

Full disclosure: I own one in my private little wood shop. My wife and mother both pressed me to spend the extra money for their own piece of mind. Gotta say that I think it's well worth it when I compare my setup to price comparable cabinet saws.

Anubis fucked around with this message at 22:14 on May 25, 2011

Iskariot
May 25, 2010
I strongly dislike Sawstop because it's so obvious that the inventor is lobbying his rear end off for his product. He's a patent lawyer isn't he? I'm all for safety, I even support enforcing rules, but not due to some prick trying to get a license to print money.

I liked this design: http://www.whirlwindtool.com/ I even think I'm going to snag the design for the anti-kickback device.

ibpooks
Nov 4, 2005

Iskariot posted:

I strongly dislike Sawstop because it's so obvious that the inventor is lobbying his rear end off for his product.

Wouldn't you do the same? Wouldn't anyone? He has millions of dollars of his own money and investor money on the line. He spent years and actually created a product that was novel and that solves a major problem in society. Isn't this exactly what the patent system is for?

add: Although SS has been fairly successful, they are still a speck of dust compared to the multinational tool companies. No doubt all the major tool companies will eventually come out with some type of similar technology to directly compete. The only chance he has of long term survival for his company is to be as aggressive as possible as early as possible before he gets crushed under endless litigation and marketing effort from the giants. As a patent lawyer he knows the little guy rarely wins, and in this case he is the little guy.

ibpooks fucked around with this message at 23:14 on May 25, 2011

LordOfThePants
Sep 25, 2002

kafkasgoldfish posted:


Government regulation on something as trite as a home wood working tool is silly. People have the choice to buy saws with those safety features today. If this regulation was really what the consumer wanted, why doesn't everyone own a Sawstop already? My lovely aluminum craftsman gets me by fine for ripping the occasional board or batch job. I think people will resent (because I would) having to pay an extra $100 bucks (who says it won't be $200 when all is said and done) for a single safety feature that can be realized with good shop practices.


A lot of it has to do with price. Sawstop makes a pretty nice saw, but the cheapest model (a contractor saw) costs more than a Grizzly cabinet saw. Hell, you can almost buy THREE Grizzly cabinet saws for the cost of one Sawstop PCS.

For a lot of people, that price difference is a big deal. If you're cross shopping with a Unisaw or Powermatic saws, the difference isn't as great, but you still pay a premium.

I'll probably opt for the Sawstop myself when I buy a new saw. The money I'd save by going with a Grizzly saw would easily be gone with just one trip to the ER, so it seems like a smart choice.

dyne
May 9, 2003
[blank]

Iskariot posted:

I strongly dislike Sawstop because it's so obvious that the inventor is lobbying his rear end off for his product. He's a patent lawyer isn't he? I'm all for safety, I even support enforcing rules, but not due to some prick trying to get a license to print money.

I liked this design: http://www.whirlwindtool.com/ I even think I'm going to snag the design for the anti-kickback device.
I don't think the whirlwind thing really solves any sort of problem. I'm pretty sure a huge contributor to flesh injuries from blade contact comes from people using the table saw without the plastic blade guard.

Anubis
Oct 9, 2003

It's hard to keep sand out of ears this big.
Fun Shoe

Iskariot posted:

I strongly dislike Sawstop because it's so obvious that the inventor is lobbying his rear end off for his product. He's a patent lawyer isn't he? I'm all for safety, I even support enforcing rules, but not due to some prick trying to get a license to print money.

I liked this design: http://www.whirlwindtool.com/ I even think I'm going to snag the design for the anti-kickback device.

That's the industry line, sure. The other side is that when it first came out saw manufacturers were afraid that since a single guy managed to outdo all their engineers in designing major safety features (after years of saying that there was no possible solution) the lawsuits would start coming out of the woodwork, so to speak.

So, when the saws first started being produced a fairly effective FUD campaign was launched pushing the same points you brought up along with claims that the system itself was unreliable. The truth might be somewhere in the middle of those two stories but if the industry really has been pouring millions of dollars a year into product safety like they claim then the fact that this one guy came around and managed to out engineer the industry's combined efforts then the man certainly deserves to get paid.

Hell, paying him would likely be cheaper than all that R&D they claim to be doing all the time.

tworavens
Oct 5, 2009
My uncle cut his finger off with a table saw. I'm getting one of these if I'm ever in the market for a new table saw. I think this guys system is better then the whirlwind system. I like it because it shuts the saw down so quickly it has little chance to hurt you.

As for him lobbying for it, who the heck is supposed to get these systems implemented? Good thing too, this system is stupidly simple and capacitance sensing has been used for decades. It should have been implemented in 1995. Just shows how little the major tool companies are innovating.

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD
If it's such a an important safety case that they should mandate it come on all products then surely it's important enough that the government could free the patent to anyone who wished to implement it on their products.

Oh wait, that won't happen because the guy crusading for the former is the guy who owns the latter.

Iskariot
May 25, 2010

ibpooks posted:

Wouldn't you do the same? Wouldn't anyone? He has millions of dollars of his own money and investor money on the line. He spent years and actually created a product that was novel and that solves a major problem in society. Isn't this exactly what the patent system is for?

add: Although SS has been fairly successful, they are still a speck of dust compared to the multinational tool companies. No doubt all the major tool companies will eventually come out with some type of similar technology to directly compete. The only chance he has of long term survival for his company is to be as aggressive as possible as early as possible before he gets crushed under endless litigation and marketing effort from the giants. As a patent lawyer he knows the little guy rarely wins, and in this case he is the little guy.
I may have if I invented something half decent and was looking to retire early but that doesn't change the fact that under all this "got to keep people safe"-speech, someone is looking to get paid. Just because someone is out to squeeze money out of tragedies with a neat product doesn't mean you have to support that guy. I support safety and safety products but all the drama around SS makes me dislike it and its inventor.

The whirlwind tackles another safety issue which costs the community millions - dust. Are vacuums mandatory on saws? Are dust masks? Probably not but the health issues due to wood dust exposure can probably rival cutting accidents.

Just to be clear, from an objective PoV, I think the SS is pretty neat. I like the overall design of the Whirlwind a lot more but the SS is more compact and better suited for contractor saws for instance. I endorse safety products as well. My only gripe is how he's trying to market this via trying to enforce it by laws.

ibpooks
Nov 4, 2005

Iskariot posted:

The whirlwind tackles another safety issue which costs the community millions - dust. Are vacuums mandatory on saws? Are dust masks? Probably not but the health issues due to wood dust exposure can probably rival cutting accidents.

I'm not arguing with you on this but just pointing out that SawStop saws also have excellent dust collection features. I don't own one of their saws, but I have cut on one before and there is very little dust to be seen or smelled after a cut. I would certainly consider it very close to top-of-the-line in dust collection. In fact the entire saw (ignoring the safety feature for now) is very high quality; it's not like they just slapped the blade stop on a cheap saw and marked it up $1,000. The whole thing is built very well.

quote:

My only gripe is how he's trying to market this via trying to enforce it by laws.

I don't see how he has any other choice.

Nerobro
Nov 4, 2005

Rider now with 100% more titanium!
And where is the "touches flesh" stop on lathes (that would have saved that MIT chick) bandsaws, routers and angle grinders?

I'm new here.. but I have a hard time mandating safety. If you're dumb, you're dumb. most saws come with at minimum blade guards. That would have saved the earlier mentioned nearly chopped off arm.

I also remember that the stopsaw is a one time use thing, as it breaks parts when it's stopped like that.

Given my experience two weeks ago with wood dust... I'd be much more concerned about good dust control than stopping the blade immediately.

ibpooks
Nov 4, 2005

Nerobro posted:

And where is the "touches flesh" stop on lathes (that would have saved that MIT chick) bandsaws, routers and angle grinders?

Just because it isn't yet available for all tools doesn't mean there isn't huge benefit for it to be on table saws. That's like saying you shouldn't wear safety glasses because you don't have knee pads.

quote:

If you're dumb, you're dumb.

It's very short-sighted to make the assumption that accidents happen to only dumb people. Everyone is susceptible to distraction, a lapse of concentration, or a completely unforeseen event.

quote:

I also remember that the stopsaw is a one time use thing, as it breaks parts when it's stopped like that.

The blade brake is one-time use and can be replaced for something like $60; although in many cases the company replaces them for free in the event of a finger save. The blade is often ruined also. Compare that to the medical cost of a finger cut -- well into the $1000s even for a minor injury.

The rest of the saw is undamaged by a blade stop.

quote:

Given my experience two weeks ago with wood dust... I'd be much more concerned about good dust control than stopping the blade immediately.

It is very reasonable to be concerned with both.

ibpooks fucked around with this message at 19:37 on May 26, 2011

Iskariot
May 25, 2010
Yeah, I don't buy the dumb argument either. Sure a lot of accidents are due to stupid mistakes but think about stupid mistakes you've done in your life. Now imagine they took a couple of fingers off.

Not introducing a safety concept because other products don't have them isn't really an argument either. Any bit helps. Making one patented product mandatory on the other hand, that rubs me the wrong way. I can set up a TS with simple safety measures that is almost impossible to shove fingers into without wanting to put them in. Look at the box on top of the Whirlwind, without the electronics, and you have the gist of it. If people continue to use thumbs to push pieces through the cut, well, then they entered the stupid zone and they can go pick up a Sawstop to help brain activity.

I haven't studied the actual Sawstop saws, just the mechanism used to stop the blade. It's pretty cool but misfires quite a lot if you're working with humid wood according to a British woodworking forum. If you are lucky you need to change the blade and mechanism, unlucky and the whole frame under the table becomes crooked due to the massive force of stopping the blade and motor dead. Small price for your fingers, pretty expensive if your wood piece was a bit damp.

Not directly related but I dropped a chain-saw on my knee once. I was wearing safety pants and got away from it with a scrap and a racing heart. Done many dumb things without safety gear but gotten away with it relatively unharmed.

Nerobro
Nov 4, 2005

Rider now with 100% more titanium!
$60 a shot for something that could be taken care of by leaving the guard on your saw and using push sticks? And can misfire if you use damp wood? Or try to cut metal? Would you drive a car that needed a part that cost 10% of the value of the car every time you had an emergency stop?

And maybe not just $60, if you have a heavy blade. And blades are cheap.. right? ;-)

Stopping the cutter is neat as hell. If your hand has gotten that close to big, sharp, metal, and spinny, you've already failed the test.

Stopsaw is the "padded car" solution to the problem of people running hands through saw blades. I am now wondering how much hand it would save if you slapped your hand directly down on the blade.

Edit: I think I'm also just "down on the table saw." The implementation is risky at best. There is no metalworking equivalent of a table saw. But, the metal working tools you'd use to do what a tablesaw does, are much safer to use.

Bandsaws do rip cuts, and with a guard do them very straight indeed. They would not be able to do dado type cuts. But that's what a mill is for.

If you need a direct equivalent, a horizontal mill with an arbor and a slitting blade would make a dead on replacement for a radial arm saw. And that would be able to do all the silly things you do with a table saw.

Nerobro fucked around with this message at 21:38 on May 26, 2011

Methylethylaldehyde
Oct 23, 2004

BAKA BAKA
Yeah, the SawStop lobbyist is a bunch of bullshit. If he gets to have the government mandate that his product must be included in all new saws, he can literally print money. Table saws will probably start at $400, and go very quickly north from there.


Push sticks and blade guards are all you really need to keep all but the most determined kind of accidents from happening. It's when you start defeating the safety systems that you start seeing accidents. Or when the table saw never had any safety systems to begin with.

Hell, like 80% of stupid table saw related injuries could probably be fixed with the 18" long plastic push stick. Getting your hands closer than 6" to a whirling carbide tipped spinning limb dismemberment disk seems like a really bad idea all the way around. Especially when you have lovely depth perception like I do.

Personally, I always treat my personal protective equipment as important poo poo. After the 3rd or 4th time a little big of shrapnel is bounced off your safety glasses, you learn to appreciate them, and your continued ability to see.

Anubis
Oct 9, 2003

It's hard to keep sand out of ears this big.
Fun Shoe

Iskariot posted:

I haven't studied the actual Sawstop saws, just the mechanism used to stop the blade. It's pretty cool but misfires quite a lot if you're working with humid wood according to a British woodworking forum. If you are lucky you need to change the blade and mechanism, unlucky and the whole frame under the table becomes crooked due to the massive force of stopping the blade and motor dead. Small price for your fingers, pretty expensive if your wood piece was a bit damp.

For what it's worth, there is an override mode for when you need to cut very moist wood or metal. That, of course, turns off the brake and you have to remember to do it for every cut. During that override mode the lights on the front will blink a certain way if the brake would have been engaged during the cut.

Last year I did a series of tests with a piece of scrap 2x4 that I accidentally left half sitting in standing water. It took till the most wet part till the brake would have been engaged.

Supposedly it won't go off for small nails either but I make an effort not to put anything with nails in it through my table saw so I couldn't report on that. If some people were interested I could likely do some more in depth tests on camera to see how moist the wood has to be before a brake would be engaged.

Anubis fucked around with this message at 03:34 on May 27, 2011

Anubis
Oct 9, 2003

It's hard to keep sand out of ears this big.
Fun Shoe
Getting back to the purpose of the thread for a little bit:

My trimmer head is a piece of poo poo that I've always hated. Takes me 20-30 minutes to load the drat thing and although I only have to do that twice a year it's annoying enough that often times I just don't trim for 4-5 weeks at a time if it runs empty.

After talking to a coworker I picked up this: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202052369/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Assembly was fairly straight forward after consulting my trimmer manual on how to get the old head off. I didn't quite tighten it enough the first time but it didn't come flying off or anything, just wiggled very slightly.

The good news: Works as advertised. I have a big yard and the entire back yard has chain link enclosing it but I only had to change the strings once. Changing them is quick and easy assuming you have some pre-measured and cut. I could see a potential problem if the string broke right up against the hole and you didn't have enough string on the inside to pull it through but in my one use that didn't cause a problem for me, and you could likely use another string to push the remaining string through, hopefully.

It also enables me to potentially use a thicker gauge string line than the previous head, which I assume would both cut better and wear down slower.

Overall rating: 4/5

Anubis fucked around with this message at 03:29 on May 27, 2011

let it mellow
Jun 1, 2000

Dinosaur Gum
I have a slightly different precut string head that I bought after a discussion with a neighbor and love it. The only problem is that I am an idiot and take about ten more precut strings than I need every time and now have a lot of orange strings sitting on my dresser.

Also, the same neighbor turned me on to the triangle (instead of round) profile strings. They last much longer, but are more expensive.

Nerobro
Nov 4, 2005

Rider now with 100% more titanium!
Because it relates to the table saw discussion:

No tablesaw? No problem:

1" square tubing as a rip fence, power strip safely away from the saw for power saw so I could remotely start and stop it. My hands never were on the table.

The circular saw has been in my garage for most of 10 years. It's brand new... There was still wax on the blade teeth.

Oh yes, and lessons learned from last time:

$9 JT flex 7 clone from ebay. And a $40 particulate mask from home depot.

ibpooks
Nov 4, 2005

Iskariot posted:

Not directly related but I dropped a chain-saw on my knee once. I was wearing safety pants and got away from it with a scrap and a racing heart.

Holy poo poo that must have been the longest 0.5 seconds of your life.

Iskariot
May 25, 2010
Not even sure it was that. Just a hard dump on my knee and the sudden realization what had happened. Think it was a tree falling unexpected or something, I can't really remember. Years ago.

Other fun incidents: Dropping an anvil on my foot the one day I wore my Doc Martens. Think the tip of my foot got pushed half an inch down into the gravel. Not nearly as dangerous as it hit the tip of the toes but they would have been paste in light footwear. (Yeah, I wore steel-tips from then on).

Ah, the joys of growing up on a farm with an engineer dad. <3

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
My boss offered to sell me a portable bandsaw (he's a country dude who's always trading poo poo or selling stuff), and he perked my ears up when he said it was a brand new Milwaukee. We haggled and settled on 100 bucks (while he was bitching he was losing money on the deal, which is laughable).

Get out to his truck after work, and that brand new Milwaukee is actually a dinged up, but still fairly good shape bandsaw with three really shiny spots on the frame where someone had really really obviously used a grinder to erase serial numbers. Now I've bought things that I probably figured I didn't wanna ask too many questions about (got a big 5-pack of DeWalt 18v stuff that way), but goddamn- there's a limit.

Iskariot
May 25, 2010
Your... boss? Do you work in garbage collection and your boss is a stereotype American/Italian?

Don't buy stolen goods. You're funding people that may steal from you next.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!

Iskariot posted:

Your... boss? Do you work in garbage collection and your boss is a stereotype American/Italian?

Don't buy stolen goods. You're funding people that may steal from you next.

Nah, chemical plant. He's as redneck as they get.

I turned down the bandsaw. I don't want that kind of headache. I was going to get an air compressor from him too, but christ only knows where that came from.

Chauncey
Sep 16, 2007

Gibbering
Fathead


Nerobro posted:

$60 a shot for something that could be taken care of by leaving the guard on your saw and using push sticks? And can misfire if you use damp wood? Or try to cut metal? Would you drive a car that needed a part that cost 10% of the value of the car every time you had an emergency stop?

And maybe not just $60, if you have a heavy blade. And blades are cheap.. right? ;-)

Stopping the cutter is neat as hell. If your hand has gotten that close to big, sharp, metal, and spinny, you've already failed the test.

Stopsaw is the "padded car" solution to the problem of people running hands through saw blades. I am now wondering how much hand it would save if you slapped your hand directly down on the blade.

Edit: I think I'm also just "down on the table saw." The implementation is risky at best. There is no metalworking equivalent of a table saw. But, the metal working tools you'd use to do what a tablesaw does, are much safer to use.

Bandsaws do rip cuts, and with a guard do them very straight indeed. They would not be able to do dado type cuts. But that's what a mill is for.

If you need a direct equivalent, a horizontal mill with an arbor and a slitting blade would make a dead on replacement for a radial arm saw. And that would be able to do all the silly things you do with a table saw.

Metal working tools as direct comparable replacements to woodworking tools? Ya don't say!?!? So a horizontal mill can replace a radial arm saw? A common radial arm saw may have what, 20 inches of travel? Find a horizontal mill with that much travel in Y that doesn't weigh over 2 tons. Also, have fun hand cranking the leadscrew all that way! You are ridiculous.

A dado setup replaced by a milling machine??? This is laughable. First off, Brideport type mills would only have enough X travel to do maybe a 32 inch cut or so and with or without power feed its gonna take fuckin forever to crank the table all the way back and forth. Any table saw can dado an 8ft board. Let's see what a mill with 8 feet of X travel looks like.



Oh I found your radial arm saw replacement. How's about 12-15,000 lbs to move around your shop. 15hp motor. Looks to be about the travel of a decent sized radial arm saw.
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/tls/2376491092.html

Table saws are excellent machines. You can't beat how quick/easy it is to set up and complete a cut with one. We cut delrin from 2.5" down to 1/8" thick, 3/8 aluminum, lexan, those high-heat resistant plastics with glass and poo poo in 'em, and rarely wood. Nothing beats them for cutting a piece of sheet in a straight line.


Chauncey fucked around with this message at 15:37 on May 29, 2011

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

Nerobro posted:

Because it relates to the table saw discussion:

No tablesaw? No problem:

1" square tubing as a rip fence, power strip safely away from the saw for power saw so I could remotely start and stop it. My hands never were on the table.

What's up, Black and Decker Workmate buddy? :hfive: My dad has one when I was a kid, and it was one of my first purchases when I started making little projects around the house. That said, you should submit your "table saw" setup to There, I Fixed it.. I hope I'm not the only one here that finds that setup to be loving terrifying.

Nerobro
Nov 4, 2005

Rider now with 100% more titanium!

Chauncey posted:

Hi, I completely missed the point of the comparison and went on a long rampage trying to show how much I know about machine tools.
Hi. Lets take this back about seven steps. ... as you went round the block on this one.

Table saws are dangerous machines. You can fall onto the cutting surface. This is a BAD thing. You can not fall onto a radial arm saw. There's very little reason you can't use a cutting device with a protected, overhead cutter instead of a cutter that's exposed from the bottom.

More or less, that's my point.

I was relating to machine tools, because they do not have any sort of capacitive stop in them, like the stopsaw. The suggestion is almost laughable really. There is a direct comparison, but given the forces involved, and the weights you need to carry.. no, using metalworking machines isn't an economical choice. But the operations are frequently the same, and they do it without the metalworking equivalent of a tablesaw.

I don't think a tablesaw is essential. It's just the cheapest way to make long, straight, cuts.

That said, milling wood can leave some truely beautiful finishes. http://www.frets.com/ this guy does a lot of his "woodwork" using a mill.

stubblyhead posted:

What's up, Black and Decker Workmate buddy? :hfive: My dad has one when I was a kid, and it was one of my first purchases when I started making little projects around the house. That said, you should submit your "table saw" setup to There, I Fixed it.. I hope I'm not the only one here that finds that setup to be loving terrifying.

I wouldn't go loving terrifying. But yeah, it was a bit rednecky, and very open to getting hurt. No more though than a normal tablesaw with the knife or guard removed. It's the whole whirling blades of death thing :-)

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK
I am looking for a tool I saw on a job site years ago. I wish I would have remembered the names.

It basicly had two devices , you put one on one side of a wall. You could then go to the other side and ping this locator off of it. And it would tell you the exact point where both devices met.

If anyone can help me find it i'd love to see what they cost because it would come in handy in plumbing remodels.

Not an Anthem
Apr 28, 2003

I'm a fucking pain machine and if you even touch my fucking car I WILL FUCKING DESTROY YOU.

Nerobro posted:

I don't think a tablesaw is essential. It's just the cheapest way to make long, straight, cuts.

Maybe that's because you haven't used one often, or are crazy, and he's completely right about responding to you saying "dadoing is what a mill is for."

The last time I did dados, there is no mill I've ever personally seen that could do them, and the table saw did them in about 5 seconds. You cannot secure wood like you do metal for milling operations, it would leave gross blemishes and dents or you'd have to use a lot of scrap wood.

Table saws are essential if you work in any volume. I've never heard of anyone falling on a table saw, but if you're trying to say metalworking machines are somehow safer you are sooooo crazy.

Latroc
Mar 22, 2004
Repent!


Iskariot posted:

Usually major powertool brands just re-brand rather flimsy third-party stuff and stick a massive price tag on the box. You're far better off with something like Wiha or Wera (my personal favorite).

I've tried Bosch, DeWalt and Hitachi bits that were plain awful.

I'm hoping that crappy drill bits is my problem but, as I'm a power tool novice, would not be shocked if it was user error.

I bought a DeWalt 18v cordless as My First Power Tool™ after buying a house and so far it has mainly been used for hanging curtains and a few pieces of drywall. Recently, I wanted to pre-drill some holes into wood so purchased a DeWalt drill bit set but the issue I keep having is that the bit will get stuck in the wood. When I attempt to reverse it out, the drill spins while the bit remains stationary. I was able to save the bit the last time this happened by twisting it out with a pair of pliers. Reviews on the drill bits mention that they are too "aggressive" for wood and can screw themselves into wood which I assume is what is happening to me.

Perhaps buying better drill bits will alleviate my problems but since the only experience I have with any power tools have come in the last six months, I thought it wouldn't hurt to mention my issue here. Is there anything that I should watch out for or be mindful of while I'm drilling into wood? The drill has two speeds and 17 clutch settings so I'm always worried that I'm using the wrong one and slowly damaging the drill.

Turd Herder
May 21, 2008

BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK BALLCOCK
I've found when drilling into most types of metal with a bit. If you feather the trigger on then off in 2 sec bursts it will drill better. The reason is unless you can get the correct speed the drill bit will just spin to fast and won't bite. When you feather the trigger it will bite every second and remove much larger chunks. Also it wont over heat your drill bit which does ruin them.

dwoloz
Oct 20, 2004

Uh uh fool, step back

Latroc posted:

...the bit will get stuck in the wood. When I attempt to reverse it out, the drill spins while the bit remains stationary.

Instead of reversing the drill, after you've plunged the bit in, keep the bit spinning forward and slowly remove it. The spinning bit will clear the hole and allow it to be removed

Methylethylaldehyde
Oct 23, 2004

BAKA BAKA

Latroc posted:

I'm hoping that crappy drill bits is my problem but, as I'm a power tool novice, would not be shocked if it was user error.

Reviews on the drill bits mention that they are too "aggressive" for wood and can screw themselves into wood which I assume is what is happening to me.



The keyless chuck needs to be tightened more. The bit isn't being gripped hard enough in the chuck, and once it buries itself deep enough, it gets stuck in the wood and breaks free from the chuck teeth. Turn the drill to drill mode, or whatever mode bypasses the clutch entirely, and grip the poo poo out of the keyless check and gun the drill once or twice. The keyless chuck should click over and grip the bit a lot tighter.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
If you think cheap drill bits might be the problem, shell out for a Chicago-Latrobe set. I'd swear by them, and the only times I ever fried or broke their bits are when I flat out knew I was abusing them (ie, drilling into a stainless strainer basket that was pissing me off out in the hot sun and all but standing on the drill).

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Boogeyman
Sep 29, 2004

Boo, motherfucker.
My dad has a shop over at his place, and most of his larger equipment is older stuff that he bought around 30 years ago or so. He has a DeWalt 10" radial arm saw (model 7740/3421 type 3) that finally bit the dust last week. I noticed that he had a newer radial arm saw up in the garage and asked him what happened to the old one. Apparently he was cutting some dadoes and he smelled something electrical burning, so he shut the saw off and let it sit for a bit. He started it back up again later and it shot flames out of the motor housing, then died (even in death, radial arm saws are :black101:).

So now the question is do we spend the time and money to fix it, or scrap it and just use the newer one? I told him that I wasn't sure if it was worth fixing or not, and that I would check with you all to see if you had any insight. He's comfortable with electronics, so if it's a simple fix like replacing a part in the motor or something, that shouldn't be a big deal. If it's just right smart hosed, then we'll move the new one down to the shop and put the old one on craigslist.

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