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FitFortDanga posted:You're too hung up on "story" and "narrative". You know when it's late at night during a get together, everyone is drunk and sitting around a table, and someone starts rambling on about philosophy while everyone nods at them with serious face even though you are just sitting there thinking about the rear end on the hot blonde standing five feet to your left? That is how it feels watching A Thin Red Line.
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May 22, 2011 02:26
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DFu4ever posted:You know when it's late at night during a get together, everyone is drunk and sitting around a table, and someone starts rambling on about philosophy while everyone nods at them with serious face even though you are just sitting there thinking about the rear end on the hot blonde standing five feet to your left? That's staggeringly accurate. It still is an amazingly beautiful movie with a couple of great scenes.
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May 22, 2011 02:41
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DFu4ever posted:You know when it's late at night during a get together, everyone is drunk and sitting around a table, and someone starts rambling on about philosophy while everyone nods at them with serious face even though you are just sitting there thinking about the rear end on the hot blonde standing five feet to your left?
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May 22, 2011 03:13
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Peaceful Anarchy posted:You should watch some Godard. So the Thin Red Line is the philosopher scene in Vivre sa Vie stretched out for 2 hours + explosions?
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May 22, 2011 03:47
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appropriatemetaphor posted:So the Thin Red Line is the philosopher scene in Vivre sa Vie stretched out for 2 hours + explosions? Hey I liked that scene. Incidentally I was describing the Kaurismaki set to someone last week and it occurred to me that you could make a decent case for 'The Match Factory Girl' being a stylized travesty of 'Vivre Sa Vie.' Anybody know if Kaurismaki had that in mind when he made it?
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May 22, 2011 04:01
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Yeah it's a great scene; I meant stretched out to 2 hours + explosions as a good thing.
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May 22, 2011 07:27
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Hmm, that's a tough call on that newsletter clue, but I'm leaning more toward Cat People over Island of Lost Souls. I don't think anyone in the latter wore a negligee, did they? In a perfect world Criterion would put out a two pack of Cat People and Curse of the Cat People--I actually think the sequel is a better film, but despite being only tangentially related they've got a neat dualistic thing going on that I really dig when you view them together. Also, if there's a Heaven the first thing I do when I get there is look up Simone Simon.FitFortDanga posted:You're too hung up on "story" and "narrative". What he's too hung up on is plot--story and narrative are different parts of a film. Plot is what happens; narrative is how it's told; story is the synthesis of plot+narrative+themes. He used the words interchangeably, when the concepts aren't at all. Regardless, you're right. A film is about much more than "what happened."
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May 22, 2011 13:17
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PateraOctopus posted:Hmm, that's a tough call on that newsletter clue, but I'm leaning more toward Cat People over Island of Lost Souls. I don't think anyone in the latter wore a negligee, did they? In a perfect world Criterion would put out a two pack of Cat People and Curse of the Cat People--I actually think the sequel is a better film, but despite being only tangentially related they've got a neat dualistic thing going on that I really dig when you view them together. Also, if there's a Heaven the first thing I do when I get there is look up Simone Simon. The people speculating Cat People are talking about Schrader's Cat People, not the original. There's already a two pack with the original Cat People and Curse of The Cat People from Warner, though not in Blu.
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May 22, 2011 15:24
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Peaceful Anarchy posted:The people speculating Cat People are talking about Schrader's Cat People, not the original. There's already a two pack with the original Cat People and Curse of The Cat People from Warner, though not in Blu. Skwirl posted:I'm not sure who said it first, but "All sufficiently graphic war films are anti-war." Of course I think Saving Private Ryan is anti-war, so what the gently caress do I know. I think there was a shift in how `anti-war' films were constructed more or less in the period after Vietnam, but most specifically following the slew of Vietnam war films made in the '80s (e.g. Platoon (1986) and around then). The shift was from a sort of bare `war is hell' message (like in the war films I mention above) to a sort of `love the warrior, hate the war' message that you see in films like Saving Private Ryan and Black Hawk Down (2001). In these films a great deal of time is spent depicting the filmmaker's notion of the gritty realities of war and how they're terrible, but at the same time enormous importance is placed on the valour and honour of individual soldiers. So while the overt message is theoretically anti-war, they still engage in the sort of grand mythologising of the warrior that you see in what most people would consider `pro-war' war films (e.g., the big Holllywood war epics from the studio era). This seems to have crept in and become more or less part of the default mode of representation in mainstream American cinema.
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May 23, 2011 01:45
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SubG posted:It's also in Warner's Val Letwon boxed set, which is definitely worth it for those two films along with I Walked With A Zombie (1943) and The Leopard Man (1943), which are all great films even if you're not into Lewton, Tourneur, Wise, and so on. Don't you suppose that 'La Grande Illusion' is still guilty of some of that mythologizing? Pierre Fresnay and von Stroheim's characters both have sort of a martial solemnity and dignity that, if it clashes with the abstraction of modern warfare, still feels kind of elegiac for an older generation of soldiers. Both actors put in an incredible performance but I feel like they kind of make the ideological content of the movie ambiguous.
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May 23, 2011 01:59
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Archyduke posted:Don't you suppose that 'La Grande Illusion' is still guilty of some of that mythologizing? Pierre Fresnay and von Stroheim's characters both have sort of a martial solemnity and dignity that, if it clashes with the abstraction of modern warfare, still feels kind of elegiac for an older generation of soldiers.
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May 23, 2011 02:03
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Mythologizing seems inevitable. Even Paths of Glory, as deeply bitter it is about the whole experience of war, ends with a grand gesture of their comradeship and solidarity as soldiers. And Come and See, which is often called the greatest anti-war film, basically ends with "JOIN THE FIGHT" - it's got the same goddamn ending as Starship Troopers, practically. One of the only genuinely anti-war films I can think of is MASH, which approaches the genre with the attitude of "gently caress the army, and gently caress the goddamn war." But even that ends up making the battlefield look pretty fun - let's get together and play football, guys!
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May 23, 2011 02:05
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Come and See for me is the most anti-war movie that I can think of, and also one of the best 
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May 23, 2011 02:10
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'Fire on the Plains' and 'J'Accuse' also come to mind, although both (and 'Come and See') are so dour that I'll probably end up seeing 'MASH' and "La Grande Illusion' half a dozen more times each before I feel like watching any of them again.
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May 23, 2011 02:12
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penismightier posted:Mythologizing seems inevitable. Even Paths of Glory, as deeply bitter it is about the whole experience of war, ends with a grand gesture of their comradeship and solidarity as soldiers. And Come and See, which is often called the greatest anti-war film, basically ends with "JOIN THE FIGHT" - it's got the same goddamn ending as Starship Troopers, practically. In a film like La Grande Illusion I think we're supposed to conclude that the old school military men were admirable only until they actually had to fight a war, at which point their otherwise admirable code of conduct became manifestly inappropriate and out of place. Contrast this with, say, Captain Miller in Saving Private Ryan, who we're more or less expressly told was an average nobody until transmogrified into a hero by warfare. On the one hand we see war destroying what we might otherwise consider virtue, and on the other hand we see war making manifest what would otherwise be hidden (or absent) virtue. I think there's a meaningful difference in there.
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May 23, 2011 02:20
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SubG posted:I dunno. Apart from populating a narrative with nothing but Dickensian comically wicked villains it would be difficult to make a film in which some of the characters aren't admirable in some way or another. So I think that expecting a film to be absolutely unrelentingly down on everything about war and everyone engaged in prosecuting it in order to be called an `anti-war' film is a pretty Procrustean standard. Yeah, I mean it's a fair point and I think a truly, deeply anti-war film is impossible, which is why I mention it. Space Cooter posted:Come and See for me is the most anti-war movie that I can think of, and also one of the best It's a great film but I really don't think it's as anti-war as people make out. It's basically a call to arms against the Nazis.
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May 23, 2011 02:23
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penismightier posted:And Come and See, which is often called the greatest anti-war film, basically ends with "JOIN THE FIGHT" - it's got the same goddamn ending as Starship Troopers, practically. That's humorously intriguing. I guess I'll have to watch it.
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May 23, 2011 05:22
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penismightier posted:Yeah, I mean it's a fair point and I think a truly, deeply anti-war film is impossible, which is why I mention it. Les Carabiniers
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May 23, 2011 05:59
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FitFortDanga posted:Les Carabiniers Haven't seen it, but the fact that it's a fictional war is intriguing.
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May 23, 2011 06:02
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FitFortDanga posted:Les Carabiniers I'd say it's more anti war-movie than anti-war.
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May 23, 2011 06:14
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penismightier posted:Yeah, I mean it's a fair point and I think a truly, deeply anti-war film is impossible, which is why I mention it. I don't see that at all. When Florya (I think that's his name?) fires at the photo of Hitler and you get all that backwards-running film, I thought the point was that violence cannot undo violence, that there is no way to "turn back the clock" as his shooting the photo seems to be doing. Violence is something that exists within all of us and cannot be destroyed (see also the Nazi's speech earlier: "The problems start with the children") and the ending of the backward montage with a photo of young Hitler. Even he was a child once. I felt a lot of things at the end of that movie, but a desire to go out and blast Nazis was about the last of them.
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May 23, 2011 06:37
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Ingmar Bergman's Shame is a pretty good damnation of war.
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May 23, 2011 08:51
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Ivan's Childhood and Ballad of a Soldier
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May 23, 2011 12:41
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Archyduke posted:I'd say it's more anti war-movie than anti-war. True. MHB is right on with Shame, though. And how about The Red and the White?
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May 23, 2011 14:20
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Duck Soup still has the most profound anti-war statement in a film: Groucho: "You're a brave man. Go and break through the lines. And remember, while you're out there risking your life and limb through shot and shell, we'll be in be in here thinking what a sucker you are."
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May 23, 2011 18:25
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Space Cooter posted:Come and See for me is the most anti-war movie that I can think of, and also one of the best I expected to adore Come and See, but it left me cold. Maybe I owe it another watch, but it felt so, I dunno...drab? It was honestly a slog for me to get through. And the ending was ridiculous.
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May 23, 2011 19:24
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penismightier posted:It's a great film but I really don't think it's as anti-war as people make out. It's basically a call to arms against the Nazis. Glad I'm not alone in feeling that way. It is an excellent film, but I think the very end stopped it from being a truly great movie. The whole of the film to that point does a great job of just showing this charnel-house of a war to you and making you go "WHY???" and then, with about a minute to go, essentially says "Ya get all that? All right, just as a refresher, here's what you should be feeling." Up until then it's very much about the eternal question of how humanity can possibly perpetrate such horrors upon itself, and then it abruptly switches gears to "THIS war, specifically. THESE people. THIS is what's upsetting," going from an anti-concept-of-war movie presenting its subject as an unknowable, almost Biblical apocalypse (note the title) to an anti-one-war-in-particular movie presenting its subject as "Hitler's fault." There shouldn't be a scapegoatable face to point your hatred at at the end of a film about the horror of living through something like this without having done anything to call it down on oneself and without even knowing why it's happening or where it comes from.
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May 24, 2011 08:44
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Diabolique and The Great Dictator arrived today. Just from skimming... Diabolique - Absolutely stunning. Opticals are a bit soft, but there's almost no damage at all and film grain is very light. Not surprising since this is from the camera negative. Sound is vastly better, too. I'm excited to see this again. The Great Dictator - Mostly excellent-looking, on par with Modern Times. The sound is impressive - almost too good, just like Modern Times' stellar remaster. Only odd note is the opening titles, which are re-created from a mix of freeze frames and digital animation. Even the Image DVD had freeze-frames, so I guess the elements were simply in bad shape. The cover art is a LOT better in person.
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May 25, 2011 03:11
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oh poo poo For those who don't recognize it, that's Irene Jacob in Red, which means we can look forward to the Three Colours trilogy on Blu at some point. I really, really hope they bring over all the Miramax extras, though. It's an impressive suite of special features and I always enjoy Insdorf's commentaries.
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May 26, 2011 18:28
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Yessssssss. I've held off buying the trilogy for years now.
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May 26, 2011 18:32
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I've only seen Blue but that was enough for me to be sold on the trilogy. More Kieslowski from Criterion is great news.
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May 26, 2011 18:40
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FitFortDanga posted:oh poo poo Oh goddamn I am so jazzed about this.
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May 26, 2011 18:45
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Does this mean Criterion is getting some Miramax licensed from Lionsgate? This is promising considering Echo Bridge is treating their portion like poo poo.
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May 26, 2011 18:52
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So cool. I didn't have a problem with the Miramax release either, and if this is $80 like the Imamura and Teshigahara sets I probably won't buy it, but it'll still be nice to know that it's out there.
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May 26, 2011 20:09
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kaujot posted:Yessssssss. I've held off buying the trilogy for years now. Same, though I haven't even seen them. gently caress yeah, this is awesome.
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May 26, 2011 20:37
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Archyduke posted:So cool. I didn't have a problem with the Miramax release either, and if this is $80 like the Imamura and Teshigahara sets I probably won't buy it, but it'll still be nice to know that it's out there. Well, this will be on Blu. But yeah that Miramax set was pretty good and relatively cheap, I think I got it for $20.
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May 26, 2011 20:47
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I've only seen Blue and The Double Life of Veronique and enjoyed both. How are his other things? I've been meaning to check out the Decalogue, but have never gotten around to it. I know Kubrick really liked it, so I guess it can't be that bad.
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May 27, 2011 00:53
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Why not just watch it, its probably available at at least one library in whatever city you live in. Kubrick didnt just like it, he called it the only masterpiece he's ever seen (might just be a rumour). A few of them are slower than others but they are all great for different reasons. Number 1 and 5 are the most depressing one's for me. e: hey part 1 is on youtube with subtitles so now there's no excuse http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LXpRn6etGw
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May 27, 2011 01:20
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FitFortDanga posted:oh poo poo This is literally the best news I've ever heard. Three Colors are hands down my favorite movies. Please come soon.
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May 27, 2011 03:09
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Not Criterion, but related: the Olive release of Bergman's Face to Face has a date of August 30 on Amazon. Run time is listed at 136 minutes which would indicate the complete version, but I'll wait for an official announcement before I get too excited. In other news, DNA evidence suggests that Bergman may have been switched at birth.
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May 27, 2011 17:04
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