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Nevets posted:To help get a sense of scale I made a mockup dropship in Sketchup. That's actually a pretty reasonable interpretation. 'Mechs are a bit smaller (each hex is actually about 30 meters across and 'Mechs themselves are only ten or so meters tall); but that should still give the players an idea of how this map 'works'. This is a map where thinking in three dimensions will definitely be helpful. Fake edit: I'm still waiting on orders for most of the lance. I'm going to give them a little more leeway to start, since this is a tricky map.
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May 28, 2011 01:28
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Question: do we want to get Spock in here, to help us with three-dimensional thinking, or Doc Brown, to go the extra mile and start thinking FOURTH-dimensionally?
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May 28, 2011 01:30
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I like that the mechs in the 3d image are all carrying boomboxes for that funky fresh beat.
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May 28, 2011 01:36
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Trast posted:I like that the mechs in the 3d image are all carrying boomboxes for that funky fresh beat. Oddly enough, the boxes do go boom, especially when you get beaten.
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May 28, 2011 01:44
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Trast posted:I like that the mechs in the 3d image are all carrying boomboxes for that funky fresh beat. BattleTech is the future of the 80s.
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May 28, 2011 02:06
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Defiance Industries posted:Question: do we want to get Spock in here, to help us with three-dimensional thinking, or Doc Brown, to go the extra mile and start thinking FOURTH-dimensionally? Dear lord, now you've got me thinking about a BTTF/Star Trek crossover where Spock and Doc Brown rig a flux capacitor to a shuttlecraft (one with gull-wing doors, natch) and basically say "Temporal prime directive? To hell with it." [e]Obviously, to handle the fact that 'miles per hour' is a pretty poor measurement of speed in space, the FC is triggered to go off at Warp 8.8 instead.
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May 28, 2011 02:54
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Congratulations, you have out-nerded the battletech thread. Take a moment to ponder the implications of your success.
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May 28, 2011 03:54
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Arglebargle III posted:Congratulations, you have out-nerded the battletech thread. Take a moment to ponder the implications of your success. Or don't ponder, because that's what ADM. BIFF T. KIRK would do!
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May 28, 2011 04:09
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Bozart posted:Or don't ponder, because that's what ADM. BIFF T. KIRK would do! "Why don't you make like a tree, and energize!?"
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May 28, 2011 04:25
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PoptartsNinja posted:That's actually a pretty reasonable interpretation. 'Mechs are a bit smaller (each hex is actually about 30 meters across and 'Mechs themselves are only ten or so meters tall); but that should still give the players an idea of how this map 'works'. I was basing the scale on the dimensions I found for a Union class dropship (80m diameter) and the fact the map has a 20 hex circumference. With 20 x 30m hexes the dropship would have a diameter of about 190m, making it about the size of a Behemoth class dropship. Just spitballing, but with 10m tall mechs on a 200m diameter sphere you would get partial cover at about 30° (1.5 hexes) and full cover at about 50° (3 hexes).  Obviously this would suck for gameplay, so I'm going to pretend that the hexes are about 10m wide for this scenario because the magnetic feet slow the mechs down to 1/3 their speeds, and ranges don't really matter since with 10m hexes and a 5 hex sight limit all combat will be taking place under 60m (2 regular hexes) anyway.
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May 28, 2011 04:45
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Arglebargle III posted:Congratulations, you have out-nerded the battletech thread. Take a moment to ponder the implications of your success. What is scary is he wasn't even trying.
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May 28, 2011 05:41
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Nevets posted:and ranges don't really matter because a targeting computer calibrated to work in an atmosphere, compensating for atmospheric refraction and gravity, is going to be pretty goddamned awful in space. Also, I didn't exactly 'math' out the battlefield, I just designed one that was big enough that people should be able to find or maintain some sort of cover if they want.
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May 28, 2011 06:39
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Nevets posted:I was basing the scale on the dimensions I found for a Union class dropship (80m diameter) and the fact the map has a 20 hex circumference. With 20 x 30m hexes the dropship would have a diameter of about 190m, making it about the size of a Behemoth class dropship. Just spitballing, but with 10m tall mechs on a 200m diameter sphere you would get partial cover at about 30° (1.5 hexes) and full cover at about 50° (3 hexes). If we want to get a little more precise...  θ = 2arccos(r/(r+x)) s = ½rθ Longinus00 fucked around with this message at 07:50 on May 28, 2011 |
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May 28, 2011 07:47
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neeeeeerds!
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May 28, 2011 07:59
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SynthOrange posted:neeeeeerds! It could be worse, it's not like anyone would actually build a ship to fight on.
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May 28, 2011 08:27
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And i thought you guys were terrible given a statue to shoot at. STOP THINKING AND SHOOT SOMETHING. ANYTHING. IT WILL BE RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU.
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May 28, 2011 08:36
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Cover is for mechs that aren't filled with srms 
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May 28, 2011 09:35
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Ok also, you have a numbers advantage, get to melee range, kick the enemy to death unless you have no guns in the arms and lower arms, if you have have guns in the arms SHOOT THE GUNS THEN KICK, and no lower arms is... pointless. 3 of you kicking at once should destroy at least one leg if not both, remember if you get both legs you win due to ringout. oh and maybe I shouldn't say this but <redacted> are great for stomping or hitting with a melee weapon.
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May 28, 2011 13:54
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Or using as a melee weapon! 
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May 28, 2011 14:41
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It occurred to me that, in a vacuum, lasers (and I guess other beam weapons, depending on how they supposedly work) would attenuate less and therefore should have longer ranges. Machine guns and railguns should maybe also have longer ranges due to no atmospheric friction. That won't matter in this game of course, but I wonder if there are rules for atmosphereless planets, and if they do anything like extend ranges for beam weapons? Explosives, on the other hand, might be less effective because there is no atmosphere to transmit shock waves. Or perhaps not, if they're shaped charges or something, it's not really clear to me. If Flamers require atmospheric oxygen to burn, they might not work at all.
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May 28, 2011 20:05
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Flamers aren't actually shooting fire so much as projecting plasma from the fusion reactor.
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May 28, 2011 20:08
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Even when it's a squad of infantry armed with one? But yeah, if it's plasma then that'd behave differently in a vacuum too, but I suppose still able to burninate whatever it touches so I guess it'd work.
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May 28, 2011 20:11
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Who cares how the flamers and lasers work, I want to know why the vacuum conditions are making our pilots sooooo slooooow. Come on you ComGuardians, get the lead out!
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May 28, 2011 20:43
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SageNytell posted:Or using as a melee weapon! <redacted> are not that big now... <REDACTED>-<REDACTED> are big enough to be used for that, and they have those hosed up pilots anyway.
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May 28, 2011 21:00
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TildeATH posted:Who cares how the flamers and lasers work, I want to know why the vacuum conditions are making our pilots sooooo slooooow. I wonder if they are out of town due to the three day weekend. Mechwarriors attending bar-b-q parties when they should be fine tuning their mechs. 
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May 28, 2011 21:19
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Trast posted:I wonder if they are out of town due to the three day weekend. Mechwarriors attending bar-b-q parties when they should be fine tuning their mechs. Contrary to popular belief, today's mechwarrior doesn't need to jack into a neural helmet or man some Robo-Jox joysticks. You can actually pilot a LP mech from your iPhone--even on a family vacation or semi-friendly barbecue. I think PTN should have the dropship start making random and sudden course changes if this takes much longer.
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May 28, 2011 21:43
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TildeATH posted:I think PTN should have the dropship start making random and sudden course changes if this takes much longer. Nah, just reverse the magnetic polarity of the hull. Send 'em all off into space.
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May 28, 2011 21:46
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I'm waiting for the partial cover to soak a few hits and then find out that PTN is tracking how much collateral damage is being done to the dropship's hull. Just in case enough shots are whiffed to start punching holes in it.
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May 28, 2011 21:54
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TildeATH posted:Who cares how the flamers and lasers work, I want to know why the vacuum conditions are making our pilots sooooo slooooow. We're just waiting on the Wyvern now.
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May 28, 2011 23:57
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Leperflesh posted:It occurred to me that, in a vacuum, lasers (and I guess other beam weapons, depending on how they supposedly work) would attenuate less and therefore should have longer ranges. Machine guns and railguns should maybe also have longer ranges due to no atmospheric friction. That's absolutely true. Lasers should definitely go further in low-atmo/vacc situations, and ballistic weapons should probably go further. Ballistic weapons and missiles should definitely go a lot further in low/zero grav situations. Guess what we have right here? A zero-gee vacc environment!  quote:That won't matter in this game of course, but I wonder if there are rules for atmosphereless planets, and if they do anything like extend ranges for beam weapons? There are rules for atmosphere pressures of standard, thin, trace, and vacc. However, they have no effect on weapon ranges. I'm not even sure what Thin atmo does; however, trace and vacc atmosphere threaten an armor "breach" on any hit whatsoever. If that location gets breached, it gets seized up, useless. PTN is ignoring these rules entirely in favor of some that make for more playability. He's also ignoring the Harjel rules entirely, since a true BattleMech Harjel System requires a complete redesign; each location you want protected by BM Harjel requires a 1-crit, 1-ton Harjel system (for a total of seven for all three torsos and all four limbs,) and it can't fit on the HD no matter what. So even an MG hitting the cockpit risks a breach... But since he's making it easier for the IS, too, we can let that slide. quote:Explosives, on the other hand, might be less effective because there is no atmosphere to transmit shock waves. Or perhaps not, if they're shaped charges or something, it's not really clear to me. Shaped charges that impact a target directly should actually do a little better since there's nothing but the target and the delivery system to deposit energy on. High Ex, however, will be pretty poo poo. quote:If Flamers require atmospheric oxygen to burn, they might not work at all. This is actually untrue for both 'mech flamers and many fuel flamers. 'Mech flamers are actually tapping a jet of engine plasma for their burnination, whereas there are flamethrower fuels - Hydrazine, for instance - that have their own oxidizers. They will burn in absolute vacuum! A good example of this is the game Dead Space 2. The original Dead Space's flamethrower wouldn't work in vacuum, and the dev team just said "eh, flame, need air." Then they got deluged with    comments explaining how their stated fuel being used, Hydrazine, would burn in space.As a result, in Dead Space 2, they showed their work, and Isaac's flamethrower functions differently (but always usefully) under conditions of atmosphere and no-atmosphere, gravity and no-gravity.
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May 29, 2011 01:03
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:PTN is ignoring these rules entirely in favor of some that make for more playability. Because if it's not fun, it should be changed. The standard rules for no atomsphere fights also make the Bane/Kraken extremely deadly, which is funny. Edit: There's also a fairly good chance that Gothsheep is going to stale out on us. Alternates, please stand by. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 03:36 on May 29, 2011 |
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May 29, 2011 03:21
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PoptartsNinja posted:Because if it's not fun, it should be changed. The standard rules for no atomsphere fights also make the Bane/Kraken extremely deadly, which is funny. Hey, I wasn't disapproving of it. Standard vacc rules make the LBX Autocannon (and to a lesser extent, LRMs/SRMs/UACs/RACs/HAGs) the God-Emperors of War. quote:Edit: There's also a fairly good chance that Gothsheep is going to stale out on us. Alternates, please stand by. How does the list work? Do those who may have asked you to skip their turns earlier get a new crack, or is it straight top to bottom? Also, what does an (R) on the list mean? ShadowDragon8685 fucked around with this message at 03:58 on May 29, 2011 |
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May 29, 2011 03:50
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Hey, I wasn't disapproving of it. Standard vacc rules make the LBX Autocannon (and to a lesser extent, LRMs/SRMs/UACs/RACs/HAGs) the God-Emperors of War. 'Reserved', meaning, it's someone who passed on a turn but gave me that information in a prompt and timely fashion. If they then tell me that they're back and can play (like Shiva did), they get first priority since they voluntarily skipped their turn. If someone goes stale and loses a turn without telling me, they have to wait for the list to cycle.
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May 29, 2011 05:46
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Leperflesh posted:Even when it's a squad of infantry armed with one? Well, there's two kinds of flamers in the game. The fusion-based flamer that is better in every way, and if you can't use that, a lovely fuel-based flamer, which uses a fuel with its own oxidizer, like smokeless powder has.
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May 29, 2011 07:28
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Tempest_56 posted:I'm waiting for the partial cover to soak a few hits and then find out that PTN is tracking how much collateral damage is being done to the dropship's hull. Just in case enough shots are whiffed to start punching holes in it. I don't think mech-scale weapons can do much to a space-worthy vessel that can handle re-entry with out some serious effort. Like, a lance of assaults serious.
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May 29, 2011 08:01
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Defiance Industries posted:Well, there's two kinds of flamers in the game. The fusion-based flamer that is better in every way, and if you can't use that, a lovely fuel-based flamer, which uses a fuel with its own oxidizer, like smokeless powder has. I hate to have to say this, but from a 'mech design standpoint, there should be a valid argument for using fuel-based flamers instead of plasma-tap flamers. Namely that you're trading the drawbacks of tonnage and crits devoted to a volatile fuel and limited ammo supply for the fact that the flamer won't increase your own heat significantly. Which is not to say that shooting a massive jet of high-pressure liquid hydrazine at someone won't generate heat, but it'll be directed away from the firing 'mech for the most part, and a non-significant (IE, heat scale 0) amount of it will transfer back to the 'mech doing the firing. Of course, I doubt that's how it actually works even if you mount a vehicle flamer on a 'mech.
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May 29, 2011 08:06
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It could be worse. Flamethrowers could be LosTech.
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May 29, 2011 08:09
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:I hate to have to say this, but from a 'mech design standpoint, there should be a valid argument for using fuel-based flamers instead of plasma-tap flamers. Not even attempting to get in the details of how much heat hooking a rocket nozzle to your arm would create, vehicle flamers generate 3 heat just like regular mech flamers.
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May 29, 2011 09:17
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There are also special rules for flamers using Inferno fuel. A useful option, but if you take a hit to the flamer, you get to die a horrible, flaming death.
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May 29, 2011 09:24
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an oddly awful oud posted:Absolutely nobody's favorite 'mech is the Black Python. It is the single worst-looking design in the entire game. It's so bad that they redesigned it to look better, and it still looks terrible. 
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