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Haven't read it yet (appreciate the spoilers I guess) but failing doesn't make you incompetent. And Poulder and Kroy weren't even characterized as incompetent in TFL in my opinion, they were flawed at a human level but not professionally and unliked by the person narrating in those chapters. In general, they succeeded at doing what they were supposed to do when it came time. They're a lot like Dow is, honestly. For comparison, the Prince was characterized as incompetent.
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May 22, 2011 00:53
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I finally got around to picking up The Heroes, and after about 200 pages I like it quite a bit. Military history has always interested me, so I like the concept of the book covering just one battle from both sides, and the cartography geek in me loves all the strategic maps. I like the approach Abercrombie is taking with Best Served Cold, and now this one; he's focusing more on the lower-level players fighting the battles and doing the dirty work, and occasionally he'll have the major powers show up to remind us of the greater stakes.
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May 25, 2011 07:41
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Megaflare posted:Haven't read it yet (appreciate the spoilers I guess) but failing doesn't make you incompetent. And Poulder and Kroy weren't even characterized as incompetent in TFL in my opinion, they were flawed at a human level but not professionally and unliked by the person narrating in those chapters. In general, they succeeded at doing what they were supposed to do when it came time. They're a lot like Dow is, honestly. Yeah those two are just overly pompous and arrogant. They're not unlike historical generals who might have been good at the theory and won battles, but made tactical errors due to their hubris. Desperately trying to retrieve coveted articles stolen from your company/command is one example I can think of.
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May 30, 2011 08:23
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Finished The Heroes the other day. I think this is the kind of writing that Abercrombie really excels at, and I hope he does more in the "multiple perspectives of a complex event" style, rather than the Somewhat Boring Adventures of Bayaz and Co. I definitely saw Dow's death coming, though I didn't expect Shivers would be the one to deliver it. Same goes for Whirrun. I hope his sword shows up again, since it appears to be one of the Maker's. I really wanted Craw to stay retired, but now that he's joined back up with Hardbread there's the possibility of a future showdown between him and Calder. I don't imagine he'll approve too much of Calder's choice in allies. Beck going back home was a nice touch, though, and a good contrast to Craw. Speaking of Calder, the part where Bayaz threatens him with the pit of corpses was one of the most brutal things in all of Abercrombie's books thus far, even more so than the part where Bayaz reveals the depths of his machinations to Jezal and breaks his will. My only real complaint about the book is that there's not enough Dogman!
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May 31, 2011 00:11
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I just finished Best Served Cold today (I read Heroes right after the First Law because I wasn't paying attention when I bought them) and I really liked it, all things considered. I appreciate that Mr. Abercrombie is, book by book, becoming a better writer, and while I found parts of BSC a little dreary, I rather liked the rhythm of it. Parts like the Shivers-and-Monza-but-not-with-each-other sex scene, everything featuring Cosca, and especially Shenkt, (who, I must confess, sounded to me at first like a Mary Sue but turned into something very different) have all left me eager for more. Regarding the ending: It was kind of happy, wasn't it? Cosca and Friendly (awww!), Monza seems fairly content, Sulfur and Bayaz aren't entirely pleased--certainly not nearly as grim as the first few scenes (Monza being knit together after being broken apart, Monza smashing the first guy) suggested. I was thinking about the Western elements of whatever's coming next. So much of the Western genre (particularly in the works that Abercrombie had in the photograph) are about grizzled old bastards coming into town to settle one last score. Abercrombie's got quite a few already--Logen, maybe Shenkt, even Khalul. I kind of hope he writes about the death of someone thus far unkillable.
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May 31, 2011 05:42
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Sulecrist posted:I just finished Best Served Cold today (I read Heroes right after the First Law because I wasn't paying attention when I bought them) and I really liked it, all things considered. I appreciate that Mr. Abercrombie is, book by book, becoming a better writer, and while I found parts of BSC a little dreary, I rather liked the rhythm of it. Parts like the Shivers-and-Monza-but-not-with-each-other sex scene, everything featuring Cosca, and especially Shenkt, (who, I must confess, sounded to me at first like a Mary Sue but turned into something very different) have all left me eager for more. Kind of happy? Man, I'd hate to see your definition of kind of sad. The only thing remotely "happy" about the ending was she got her revenge. Hell, even that was pretty shallow after learning the truth of her brother.
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May 31, 2011 06:16
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She got hers.
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May 31, 2011 09:42
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The Heroes was amazing. Definitely joins BSC in my top 5 books list (I think they're both superior to The First Law). I don't think anything has shown me the sheer futility, waste, and disgust of war the way this book did. So I've finished ASOIAF, can't bear to go past book 8 of Malazan, and I've read all of Abercrombie...where can I even go from here that won't be a massive disappointment?
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May 31, 2011 14:38
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One of my favorite sentences in any book was "But the war was over." from the end of The Heroes. Short, sweet, and to the point. It just said so much. HeroOfTheRevolution fucked around with this message at 18:21 on May 31, 2011 |
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May 31, 2011 18:18
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aeverous posted:So I've finished ASOIAF, can't bear to go past book 8 of Malazan, and I've read all of Abercrombie...where can I even go from here that won't be a massive disappointment?
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May 31, 2011 20:28
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Puffins posted:Matthew Stover maybe. Richard Morgan's The Steel Remains.
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May 31, 2011 21:11
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cultureulterior posted:Richard Morgan's The Steel Remains. If you read this, you can read the sequel in october.
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May 31, 2011 21:28
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nessin posted:Kind of happy? Man, I'd hate to see your definition of kind of sad. The only thing remotely "happy" about the ending was she got her revenge. Hell, even that was pretty shallow after learning the truth of her brother. Compared to TFL, where Ardee cleans up the poo poo of the most vile man in the kingdom, Bayaz gets exactly what he wants, West dies of cancer, Jezal is married to a terrified lesbian, Logen kills all of the Northmen except Dogman and then jumps out a window, that weird desert girl finds a way to become even more boring and powerful, and the kingdom is all blowed up and Heroes, where half the people die and the other half are stuck in habits that they want more than anything to shed, except for Ishri, Sulfur, and Bayaz I guess, and Red Beck, who killed that other kid by accident, yeah, it's kind of happy. We knew that Benna was a huge poo poo; at least Monza figured it out eventually and got some new perspective. I didn't expect Cosca or Friendly or Vitari's kids to survive at all, so that was a delight. And I already knew that Shivers was going to turn into a straight-up killer, so while I sort of mourned it's not like I was expecting anything better. Anyway, we've seen far blacker from Abercrombie. That's all.
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Jun 1, 2011 02:28
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aeverous posted:So I've finished ASOIAF, can't bear to go past book 8 of Malazan, and I've read all of Abercrombie...where can I even go from here that won't be a massive disappointment? You haven't finished ASOIAF, and you never will. Check out The Dresden Files (thread). They're pretty god drat ridiculous books, in a good way. Just don't take them too seriously. edit: also don't google the series. Wikipedia has a nice way of putting spoilers into the search result preview text. Wikipedia needs spoiler tags. I found out the sad way.
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Jun 1, 2011 03:41
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Bummey posted:You haven't finished ASOIAF, and you never will. Oh, Bummey, have you finished the Dresden files yet?
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Jun 1, 2011 05:52
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dyehead posted:Oh, Bummey, have you finished the Dresden files yet? Oh dear, nowhere near finished. The first two books were down in a day each, but I'm only a few chapters into book 3. I'll wreck that one once I get some free time.
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Jun 1, 2011 05:55
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Matthew Stover actually managed to write a good Star Wars book somehow so I've ordered Heroes Die, thanks for the suggestions. Steel Remains looks interesting as well might get that in the future. Am I the only who finds TFL pretty drat good, but nothing on the two standalones? They're both so tight, and thematically satisfying, where the trilogy meanders around a lot and although it inverts the tropes, it's still a fantasy quest at its core.
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Jun 1, 2011 13:50
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I didn't realize there was a thread for Abercrombie here. I'm just about half-way through Last Argument of Kings, I absolutely love this guys writing style. It's well paced, dark, hilarious and thoroughly entertaining. His characters are all interesting, he strays away from terrible fantasy cliches, doesn't delve too much into endless gratuitous sex scenes (Martin!) and his dialogue is fantastic. I'm still not entirely sure what's going to happen by the time all has been said and done. Most entertaining fantasy series I've read in a long time.
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Jun 1, 2011 23:46
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Is there a name for the world his books take place in? I can't find any reference to it, he has names for every country but none of the maps have the world's name listed that I can see and I don't remember any references to it from the books either.
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Jun 1, 2011 23:58
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aeverous posted:Matthew Stover actually managed to write a good Star Wars book somehow so I've ordered Heroes Die, thanks for the suggestions. Steel Remains looks interesting as well might get that in the future. Yeah, I completely agree. Within TFL, though, I probably liked the Dagoska chunk the most; I'm a sucker for fantasy/sci-fi mysteries and that part of the trilogy stood out to me.
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Jun 2, 2011 01:02
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Does anyone else think that Best Served Cold would make a really good pulp-style action movie?
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Jun 2, 2011 02:44
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Yeah BSC, even without the internal monologues and stuff and therefore a lot of the characterisation, would make an amazing movie. Like a bizarre fantasy Ocean's Eleven based on brutal revenge instead of a heist.
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Jun 2, 2011 16:01
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Just finished Heroes. I really like that Abercrombie is unpredictable enough of a writer that I couldn't say for certain who would win in the duel between Calder and Dow at the end. Reading most writers, I could just assume that Calder would get some once in a lifetime chance and win against all odds or something. But this is the second time that it ended with ~and, poof, Bayaz was behind it all~. And on account of what I just said above, Bayaz being a huge dick is worse because there's really no guarantee that there's going to be any confrontation with him like there might be from some more predictable writers. I also don't really like what he did to Gorst... felt like he did it just so he could write another Glokta because he knew people liked it in TFL. Little nitpicks, overall I enjoyed TFL and this book and will look for more from him. Not sure yet if I'm going to read BSC though given what was said about it in this thread.
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Jun 3, 2011 02:03
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Megaflare posted:Just finished Heroes. I really like that Abercrombie is unpredictable enough of a writer that I couldn't say for certain who would win in the duel between Calder and Dow at the end. Reading most writers, I could just assume that Calder would get some once in a lifetime chance and win against all odds or something. It was fairly obvious for me that he was going to win, considering Abercrombie doesn't seem to like killing off PoV characters; West (presumably) and Logen (possibly) die but I can't think of anyone else. There were several times when it looks like everything is lost for a character, then they miraculously survive (especially Glokta). Even if they all end up worse than where they started, they all seem to live. Also come on he did get a once in a lifetime chance and win against all odds. He would've been murdered horrifically if Dow didn't toss his sword to Shivers specifically.
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Jun 3, 2011 14:46
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Ornamented Death posted:Look at all of you, with your regular hardcovers or even paperbacks - I just preordered my signed/numbered copy of Before They Are Hanged Oh hey look what I got today.   Matched number with my copy of The Blade Itself  .
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Jun 3, 2011 21:43
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Ornamented Death posted:Oh hey look what I got today. What is this The Dresden Files, Glokta doesnt wear a hat. Edit: I like this cover though, huge Glokta fanboy here.
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Jun 3, 2011 22:13
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Megaflare posted:But this is the second time that it ended with ~and, poof, Bayaz was behind it all~. And on account of what I just said above, Bayaz being a huge dick is worse because there's really no guarantee that there's going to be any confrontation with him like there might be from some more predictable writers. I also don't really like what he did to Gorst... felt like he did it just so he could write another Glokta because he knew people liked it in TFL. I think the big difference between Glokta and Gorst is that Glokta's predicament is really no fault of his own, but he believes himself to be its root cause and thus his cynicism and bitterness is a manifestation of his own undeserved self-loathing. In reality, Glokta is ultra-competent, but doesn't acknowledge it until the end of TFL. On the other hand, Gorst's bitterness and cynicism is a result of his own arrogance and self-delusion. We spend most of the book thinking he's been unfairly treated because we get that through his POV. In reality, Gorst was as or more neglectful and incompetent as the people he's been looking down on as idiotic for most of the book. The two are both cynical, but I really like the dichotomy in the characters. I also really liked both.
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Jun 3, 2011 22:18
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Ornamented Death posted:Oh hey look what I got today. Before Then Are Hanged
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Jun 4, 2011 01:06
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Oatgan posted:Before Then Are Hanged Also Glokta (I think it's him) is walking in what appears to be a cyberpunk gothic city. Edit: Also I thought it's specifically mentioned that inquisitors wear white. Plucky Brit fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jun 4, 2011 |
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Jun 4, 2011 08:50
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Clinton1011 posted:What is this The Dresden Files, Glokta doesnt wear a hat. What? He totally does! Every time he's outside he's described as wearing a wide brimmed hat. I've always pictured him looking like a member of the Spanish Inquisition.
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Jun 4, 2011 11:06
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Plucky Brit posted:Also Glokta (I think it's him) is walking in what appears to be a cyberpunk gothic city. I thought that too, but I think it's the inside of the House of the Maker. I don't like that cover much though. The title takes up like half the cover and is awkward.
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Jun 4, 2011 11:41
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Plucky Brit posted:Edit: Also I thought it's specifically mentioned that inquisitors wear white.
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Jun 4, 2011 19:28
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Oatgan posted:Before Then Are Hanged Yeah that doesn't look like a y. God I'm glad I dont have that book, it would bug the poo poo out of me.
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Jun 5, 2011 04:07
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Can any one explain to me the lineage of The Maker and his sons, and Bayaz? Mostly how Bayaz threw The Maker off the tower and then...... I finished The Blade Itself and have moved on to the second book, but I have some lingering questions. I am enjoying the hell out of these books so far but this one bit of canon. Thanks duders.
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Jun 8, 2011 01:40
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Beastie posted:Can any one explain to me the lineage of The Maker and his sons, and Bayaz? Mostly how Bayaz threw The Maker off the tower and then...... I finished The Blade Itself and have moved on to the second book, but I have some lingering questions. Someone wrote this out from the book earlier in the thread, so I can't vouch that it's perfect: quote:Quai shrugged his bony shoulders and began to speak. “Almighty Euz, vanquisher of demons, closer to gates, father of the World, had four sons, and to each he gave a gift. To his eldest, Juvens, he gave the talent of High Art, the skill to change the world with magic, tempered by knowledge. To his second son, Kanedias, went the gift of making, of shaping stone and metal to his own purposes. To his third son, Bedesh, Euz gave the skill of speaking with spirits and of making them do his bidding.” Quai gave a wide yawn, smacked his lips and blinked at the fire. “So were born the three pure disciplines of magic.” And the Maker didn't have any sons, only the daughter, Tolomei. I'm not sure how much else is a spoiler at this point, since it's discussed further in the 2nd and 3rd books, as I recall.
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Jun 8, 2011 01:56
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Bayaz is one of Juvens' half a dozen or so apprentices. That's his only relation to the Bigs.
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Jun 8, 2011 03:59
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Thanks for filling me in. It's not much of a spoiler, it just seemed like when it's explained in book 1 that he throws a bunch of names at you really quickly.
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Jun 10, 2011 01:51
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I haven't finished yet, but I'm on my first read-thru of The First Law trilogy, in the first third of Before They Are Hanged right now. It's been awesome so far, and I can tell things are about to really get moving. I'm a little scared to read the thread for spoilers, but I just wanted to say, the line "Say one thing for Logen Ninefingers..." is a bit more awesome every time it comes up.
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Jun 14, 2011 18:10
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There's a fantastic pay-off for the 'say one thing for Logen Ninefingers' repetition, later in the trilogy. It made me smile like a lunatic when I first read it.
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Jun 14, 2011 18:49
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What was it? I don't recall.
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Jun 14, 2011 19:31
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