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If you can or are offered the option bullshit the approaching Clanner into a duel and then bumrush him from flanks. If not just bumrush as Bobbin said. Put yourselves into a brutal mindset.
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May 30, 2011 07:32
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I've heard a lot of talk about the -IIC designation. But I have absolutely no idea what that means. What makes a mech an -IIC?
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May 30, 2011 07:33
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Slaan posted:I've heard a lot of talk about the -IIC designation. But I have absolutely no idea what that means. What makes a mech an -IIC? It means it's a clan redesign, II as in it's version 2, and C means clan.
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May 30, 2011 07:37
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Slaan posted:I've heard a lot of talk about the -IIC designation. But I have absolutely no idea what that means. What makes a mech an -IIC? -IIC pretty much means 'version 2, Clan.' They're a refit of an old Inner Sphere design (in many cases, of the 'Mechs Kerensky and his people brought with them) with Clan technology. The core is the same, typically, but the 'Mechs themselves are drastically different; and some are complete redesigns that don't have anything in common with the original. The Guillotine IIC is one of those designs that's mostly 'core', meaning it's still a 70-ton Guillotine. The Phoenix Hawk IIC is a complete redesign, which is why they turned a fast 45 tonner into an 80 ton abomination. Which is pretty much the same naming convention used by the Hermes -> Hermes II -> Hermes III lineage. They're three 'Mechs, the II and III are heavier redesigns built along the same principles (theoretically). That the Hermes II is drastically inferior to the original Hermies is both funny and sad.
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May 30, 2011 07:39
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Hey, I was right about the Goshawk. That'll hurt. Grasshopper IIC is probably going to be pretty drat deadly, too. Gonna knock one up in SSW to see how bad. Discounted it because I remember it was a post-Amaris design, but I guess it came out before the Exodus. Still want to see a Dervish IIC, though.
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May 30, 2011 07:42
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The Merry Marauder posted:Discounted it because I remember it was a post-Amaris design, but I guess it came out before the Exodus. Kerensky hung around a little longer this time around. He lost, but he made Amaris pay dearly for his victory. ... Really, it's just an excuse for me to make a Grasshopper IIC.
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May 30, 2011 07:46
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No pony mech. Ahhhhh pity. Still, I wonder what happens if Comguard is designated as honor-less DOGS thanks to this fight.
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May 30, 2011 07:55
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PoptartsNinja posted:Kerensky hung around a little longer this time around. He lost, but he made Amaris pay dearly for his victory. See, now that would be re-writing history. Made a Grasshopper IIC; even with a standard engine, it's pretty drat badass. I did ERLLAS, 5xERMLAS, LRM15, with Ferro and near-total heat efficiency. Add Medium lasers at the cost of heat sinks to taste.
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May 30, 2011 07:56
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PoptartsNinja posted:Which is pretty much the same naming convention used by the Hermes -> Hermes II -> Hermes III lineage. They're three 'Mechs, the II and III are heavier redesigns built along the same principles (theoretically). That the Hermes II is drastically inferior to the original Hermies is both funny and sad. So it's sort of like the venerable and much-honored Ford Mustang... and the best-forgotten, embarrassing Mustang II.
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May 30, 2011 08:00
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The Merry Marauder posted:See, now that would be re-writing history. I'm serious. Kerensky lost (but killed Aramis anyway). He left vowing revenge on the Successor Lords who failed to assist him. The Crusaders aren't looking to reform the Star League this time, guys--they're looking to punish the Successor States for letting it fall. Artificer posted:No pony mech. Ahhhhh pity. It's a second line unit (out here in space, anyway). How much do you really think the Hell's Horses will care? (hint: more than any other Clan would, but probably not enough to do anything other than complain a bit).
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May 30, 2011 08:02
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PoptartsNinja posted:That the Hermes II is drastically inferior to the original Hermies is both funny and sad. It's not that it's worse, it's that the Hermes II better fits our corporate vision going forward. (Also, "no, YOU shut up!") The Merry Marauder posted:Grasshopper IIC I'm terrified beyond the capacity for rational thought.
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May 30, 2011 08:06
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/\Would that corporate vision be "Oh poo poo, who ordered 20,000 AC/5s?"?PoptartsNinja posted:I'm serious. Kerensky lost (but killed Aramis anyway). He left vowing revenge on the Successor Lords who failed to assist him. The Crusaders aren't looking to reform the Star League this time, guys--they're looking to punish the Successor States for letting it fall. Ha, holy poo poo, I just assumed the divergence point was the Explorer Corps ship finding Niles. That's great. I'd give up too if I had to assault dozens of worlds, each with an SDS.
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May 30, 2011 08:07
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PoptartsNinja posted:I'm serious. Kerensky lost (but killed Aramis anyway). He left vowing revenge on the Successor Lords who failed to assist him. The Crusaders aren't looking to reform the Star League this time, guys--they're looking to punish the Successor States for letting it fall. Oh. OH. Oh poo poo. So it's not a race to Terra to become the IlClan and lords of the New Star League. It's a full on burn poo poo to the ground and murder anybody in their way race across the Inner Sphere. And NO ULRIC to reign them in. 
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May 30, 2011 08:15
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Which makes it that much more important to help the Scorpions out...they just want to take their toys and go home. And stay there.
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May 30, 2011 08:19
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PoptartsNinja posted:I'm serious. Kerensky lost (but killed Aramis anyway). He left vowing revenge on the Successor Lords who failed to assist him. The Crusaders aren't looking to reform the Star League this time, guys--they're looking to punish the Successor States for letting it fall. ...Well now that certainly puts things in a much different light. Of course the Successor States don't even know what their goal is but drat they're just going to burn right past Terra and go right into Marik and Capcon territory if not stopped. EDIT: Other thought, if he left vowing revenge why didn't any of the Successor Lords attempt to take him out? Or was his exodous a well-kept enough secret? Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 08:32 on May 30, 2011 |
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May 30, 2011 08:23
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We need a motivation for the other three Houses to join up and reform the Star League.
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May 30, 2011 08:37
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PoptartsNinja posted:I'm serious. Kerensky lost (but killed Aramis anyway). He left vowing revenge on the Successor Lords who failed to assist him. The Crusaders aren't looking to reform the Star League this time, guys--they're looking to punish the Successor States for letting it fall. So, okay - a couple questions. 1. If Kerensky lost, how did he manage to kill Stefan Amaris anyway? Did this timeline's Amaris not hole himself up on Terra while his armies rampaged around? 2. If Kerensky lost, what happened to the Rim Worlds Republic forces? The RWR pretty much drifted away, and the entirety of the RWR armed forces got wiped in the normal timeline. So what happened to them here? Did the Successor States beat them up later after Kerensky left? Did he just never take Terra and everything else got wiped? What happened here? 3. If the metric is "letting the Star League fall"...didn't he lose in the normal timeline, anyway? I mean, it seems to me that everything could be almost the same, only with his attitude upon leaving changed; anger instead of mere regret.
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May 30, 2011 08:41
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Angry_Ed posted:...Well now that certainly puts things in a much different light. Also if he lost , why aren't his forces tons smaller?
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May 30, 2011 08:41
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evilmiera posted:Also if he lost , why aren't his forces tons smaller? Yeah, logically the Clan forces would be tiny compared to the IS legions despite the IS's retarded behaviour.
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May 30, 2011 08:56
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:Yeah, logically the Clan forces would be tiny compared to the IS legions despite the IS's retarded behaviour. Have you ever played Galactic Civilizations II? You know how, when designing a custom race, there are options to have your race blessed with high population growth? The three options are "Frisky," "Fruitful," and "Don't ask." (Nicolas) Kerensky clicked "Don't Ask" when he founded the Clans.
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May 30, 2011 09:11
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Looking at the OP and re-reading the first paragraph of the "Rewriting it?" section more carefully, it appears this was no secret or sudden surprise. It looks like merely plot-wrangling the Clan Invasion down isn't an option this time. If we can't rely on plot and Clan cultural idiosyncrasy to defeat them, we can at least rely upon sheer raw industrial and numerical superiority. If the Children of Kerensky want revenge, they will have it served scalding hot with booby-trapped silverware. Also we poured a quart of bile in their revenge-soup. Ever tasted culinary bile? It's horrific. And terribly ethnic. (Why yes, I do seem to be very pro-IS don't I?) EDIT: Just for curiosity, if it were a Guillotine IIC, a Phoenix Hawk IIC, and a Grasshopper (IIC custom, anything goes), would this put weight estimates at about what the OpFor's rough tonnage was? I'm wondering if there's room for <REDACTED> Runa fucked around with this message at 09:50 on May 30, 2011 |
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May 30, 2011 09:15
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Except that entire sibkos will routinely produce one guy, and all the others either wash out or get killed.
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May 30, 2011 09:16
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Have you ever played Galactic Civilizations II? It's not even mostly about lost troops, though that counts as well. The materials he'd be able to bring in would be miniscule in comparison to the already somewhat small amounts they managed to bring in during the original timeline, unless Kerensky attacked almost every single functioning manufactory left in the IS. Meaning the IS would be even less prepared for war on any scale for centuries to come. Not to mention all those raids would mean his forces would be even more depleted. Don't think anyone would give him what he wanted if he asked nicely, especially if he "lost".
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May 30, 2011 09:20
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The way I see it is that Kerensky in the canon timeline wasn't building an army for conquest, more for protecting the IS. In this timeline he's pissed off so the entire culture is more revenge oriented and therefore there is most likely a larger number of mech factories and they are producing more warriors to compensate. In other words they weren't trying as hard as they could in the canon timeline and in this one they're going all out.
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May 30, 2011 10:56
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quote:I'm serious. Kerensky lost (but killed Aramis anyway). He left vowing revenge on the Successor Lords who failed to assist him. The Crusaders aren't looking to reform the Star League this time, guys--they're looking to punish the Successor States for letting it fall.  This is going to be so much fun when the Vipers land on Tharkad. It is going to be a hot time in the cold town tonight, boys. 
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May 30, 2011 11:32
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Have you ever played Galactic Civilizations II? I thought the entire premise was that the worlds that the Clans were on were super lovely, so they cannot support the population count in the billions or the industry base you'd expect from a Terra-alike. Hence the mad conservation initiative thing, to prevent them doing serious damage they couldn't easily recover from or undo. Edit: It's occurred to me that I find the clans are the least interesting thing in Battletech, and I'd like this LP just as much/probably more if it was just tooling around in lovely IS mechs loving up IS politically shenanigans. So I'm prejudiced/a space racist on this topic. Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 12:08 on May 30, 2011 |
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May 30, 2011 11:58
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Mukaikubo posted:
But the Vipers are odd because they are pro-star league right?
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May 30, 2011 12:02
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I like to think this whole thing is just a wacky misunderstanding. Sometime after the fact Kerensky said "Remember the Succesor Lords? Man, gently caress those guys." Only somebody misheard him as saying "Man, gently caress up those guys", and through a game of telephone it became the sacred duty of the clans to beat the everloving Blake out of the IC.
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May 30, 2011 12:04
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Der Schellenberg posted:The way I see it is that Kerensky in the canon timeline wasn't building an army for conquest, more for protecting the IS. In this timeline he's pissed off so the entire culture is more revenge oriented and therefore there is most likely a larger number of mech factories and they are producing more warriors to compensate. In other words they weren't trying as hard as they could in the canon timeline and in this one they're going all out. As long as conquered worlds stay conquered and all. Just having them go in, beat the IS and leave sounds like an awful idea. I want my Clan dominion, dangit 
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May 30, 2011 12:46
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So we've picked the Inner Sphere to hitch our wagon to then? Okay.
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May 30, 2011 13:25
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Not being particularly familiar with the fluff when it comes to conquering planets, how often are there resistance movements that crop up? For example, when the Federated Suns took all that territory from the Capellan Confederation, how many regiment equivalents did they use to take how many planets? I keep assuming they have around 100ish regiments because that number sounds familiar, but I may have made it up. If they took all their troops off the border with the Draconis Combine to do this and they take 50 worlds from the Capellens, ~2 regiments per planet. Also considering that the Capellans have the largest population per planet on average, how can 2 regiments take any planet from any house when all any house has to do is have a barely trained anti-tank/anti-mech force with 1/100 citizens in this planetary militia? If anyone wants to bring up some actual numbers who has put in more effort into finding better info please do, especially if it makes things make more sense. Hell there are billions of people on some of these planets, it would take the entire FedSun military to hold one of those planets. So from that perspective it seems there is an understanding between the civilians and military that as long as there are no hundreds of thousands of civilians in militias then the military won't crush the cities and civilian infrastructure. Either that or there's not a lot of patriotism outside of the actual militaries of the great houses. Again, I don't claim to know a ton about Battletech fluff, but I was having a conversation with someone who knows a ton more about things than me and he brought up this point. So if it wasn't for the two ideas I mentioned there then no, the Clans would never be able to conquer the IS, but neither would any of the great houses be able to take more than a few planets every generation.
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May 30, 2011 13:38
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From earlier discussions, the early IS all sounded terribly feudal, where conflicts between Successor States were less battles between whole nations and more a dynastic kerfluffle minus the any claims to lineage legitimacy. As in, don't cause a ruckus and keep paying taxes and they'll just let you carry on. I would assume things were more like this in border systems, though. National identity and loyalty would be pretty strong in Luthien, Tharkad, or New Avalon I gather. On the other hand, most Clans probably wouldn't have that understanding I think and might treat their conquests a bit differently than the civilians were expecting, i.e. poorly. Speaking of Clans and resistance movements, this sounds a bit like the Turtle Bay issue. As in, sometimes when Clans really out of their ritualized element get faced with the realities of guerrilla warfare one might overreact and bombard a major population center with Naval Capital Gauss weapons, which is basically just nukes minus the fallout. And then the Inner Sphere gets mad and annihilates that Clan, fun times.
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May 30, 2011 14:07
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PoptartsNinja posted:I'm serious. Kerensky lost (but killed Aramis anyway). He left vowing revenge on the Successor Lords who failed to assist him. The Crusaders aren't looking to reform the Star League this time, guys--they're looking to punish the Successor States for letting it fall. Well this changes everything, okay whens the political vote options for nuking the clans, cause might as well pull out the big guns if we can't pull the "star league reformed" angle
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May 30, 2011 14:21
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Holy poo poo. I can see things have gone completely to hell in this timeline. Someone needs to start taunting the clanners about how Kerensky was a worthless leader who couldn't even win his own wars.
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May 30, 2011 15:17
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T.G. Xarbala posted:EDIT: Just for curiosity, if it were a Guillotine IIC, a Phoenix Hawk IIC, and a Grasshopper (IIC custom, anything goes), would this put weight estimates at about what the OpFor's rough tonnage was? I'm wondering if there's room for <REDACTED> As you frame it, no, and indeed, you'd be overtonned. As it is, yes. Der Schellenberg posted:For example, when the Federated Suns took all that territory from the Capellan Confederation, how many regiment equivalents did they use to take how many planets? I keep assuming they have around 100ish regiments because that number sounds familiar, but I may have made it up. If they took all their troops off the border with the Draconis Combine to do this and they take 50 worlds from the Capellens, ~2 regiments per planet. Battletech invasions don't happen all at once. Invariably, there are waves of attacks, 4 here, 6 there, with the available forces divided up between the targets for that wave. Moreover, the FedSuns used the RCT doctrine by the time of the Fourth War, whereby many Mech regiments have 3 armor regiments and 5 infantry regiments attached, along with aerospace support. This is a lot of combat power for the setting. As an example from the same war, I believe in the invasion of Tikonov, an enormously important and well-garrisoned world, all 8 Crucis Lancers RCTs were used. Der Schellenberg posted:Not being particularly familiar with the fluff when it comes to conquering planets, how often are there resistance movements that crop up? During the Third and Fourth Succession War eras, not very much. But Sun-Tzu Liao's Xin Sheng program (and years of Maskirovka preparation) engendered a great deal of nationalistic spirit and resistance among the conquered populations of what Hanse had won a few decades before. Der Schellenberg posted:Also considering that the Capellans have the largest population per planet on average, how can 2 regiments take any planet from any house when all any house has to do is have a barely trained anti-tank/anti-mech force with 1/100 citizens in this planetary militia? Changing conventions of war after the First and Second Succession Wars had done serious damage to civilization. If the defender doesn't engage in total war (universal conscription, for example), the attacker will also refrain from doing so (nukes aside, what good is a underarmed mobilized citizenry in a universe with fighter-bombers armed with energy weapons in orbital bases?).
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May 30, 2011 15:19
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I don't think it is a Phoenix Hawk IIC either. Someone would have noticed that the thing is an assault mech. Also doesn't fit with the 2 heavies and 1 medium designation. The Goshawk theory seems accurate.... Which is very very bad news for the players. Looking at it, if PTN was truthful in that the clans have 210t of gear in this mission, that would setup for the Guillotine, (70) the Goshawk, (55) and the Grasshopper (70?). This is 195t barring any changes to the Grasshopper, so <REDACTED> might be around. Have fun with that! The other alternative is a true PHX-IIC, instead of the 80 ton derp machine canon uses. I can only imagine the horrors that this machine would bring to the table. KnoxZone fucked around with this message at 15:49 on May 30, 2011 |
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May 30, 2011 15:28
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evilmiera posted:It's not even mostly about lost troops, though that counts as well. The materials he'd be able to bring in would be miniscule in comparison to the already somewhat small amounts they managed to bring in during the original timeline, unless Kerensky attacked almost every single functioning manufactory left in the IS. Hey, that's no problem. Instead of finding the canon Clan worlds, Kerensky came across the ruins of an ancient civilization which, before it died, had built a number of mech designs and had advanced their technology to Clan levels. See, the events in Far Country actually involved time travel, and Tetatae colonized these worlds after developing mech technology, and... um... Sorry about that. I blame the thread for exposing me to Far Country in the first place. Besides, if that were true there'd be a Clan Tetatae with a totem mech particularly offensive to Battletech fans.
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May 30, 2011 16:28
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PoptartsNinja posted:I'm serious. Kerensky lost (but killed Aramis anyway). He left vowing revenge on the Successor Lords who failed to assist him. The Crusaders aren't looking to reform the Star League this time, guys--they're looking to punish the Successor States for letting it fall. Well, this changes things. I think the IS might be in for pain. Instead of making a direct thrust towards Terra, the Clans are destroying all they come across (if I'm not mistaken about their intentions).
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May 30, 2011 16:59
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Fraction Jackson posted:So, okay - a couple questions. The assault on Terra still happened. Fraction Jackson posted:2. If Kerensky lost, what happened to the Rim Worlds Republic forces? You'll see. Fraction Jackson posted:3. If the metric is "letting the Star League fall"...didn't he lose in the normal timeline, anyway? I mean, it seems to me that everything could be almost the same, only with his attitude upon leaving changed; anger instead of mere regret. Yes, but his regret in the normal timeline was passed down to his son; who exaggerated and blew it out of proportion and used it as a tool to give his Clans a 'greater goal' to strive for. In this timeline, his anger was exaggerated and blown out of proportion by his son who used it as a tool to give his Clans a common enemy to fear and dispise. Defiance Industries posted:Except that entire sibkos will routinely produce one guy, and all the others either wash out or get killed. They regularly produce 5-7. The Steel Vipers have it the worst and usually only produce 2-3 marginally extra-superior warriors instead of 5-7 plain-old superior ones. landcollector posted:Well, this changes things. I think the IS might be in for pain. Instead of making a direct thrust towards Terra, the Clans are destroying all they come across (if I'm not mistaken about their intentions). It really depends on the Clan.
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May 30, 2011 17:10
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T.G. Xarbala posted:And then the Inner Sphere gets mad and annihilates that Clan, fun times. So galactic scale: "Umad? OW! gently caress OW! OW MY DI- *gurgle*" Don't do it diamond shark, you have so much to live for!
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May 30, 2011 17:49
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