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Nenonen posted:The question is, does the miniaturized statue turn into full size if it hits Nale's forehead? and how much damage does it do?
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May 29, 2011 17:24
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crime fighting hog posted:Spells beat feats 9 times outta 10.
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May 29, 2011 18:21
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crime fighting hog posted:Spells beat feats 9 times outta 10. Did a 3.X spell-caster kill your childhood dog or something?
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May 29, 2011 18:52
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Toussaint Louverture posted:Did a 3.X spell-caster kill your childhood dog or something? Have you ever played a game of 3.X that made it past level ten? With any spellcaster who came even -remotely- close to knowing what he was doing? For those of you who have not: You know how there's that segment of the strip where V decides 'gently caress this poo poo I'm going to solve all our problems myself?' This is less a dramatic deal with the devil and more exactly what any given 3.X spellcaster can do past that point, and it requires either DM fiat or making the Big Bad a more powerful spellcaster to make it not succeed. Meanwhile, the fighter might have finally made it up to three attacks a round. Yaaaaaay.
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May 29, 2011 19:48
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We're all aware, the question is more rooted in "why does this keep coming up in the thread".
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May 29, 2011 19:50
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Spiderdrake posted:We're all aware, the question is more rooted in "why does this keep coming up in the thread". Everyone in the cast good or bad should get hit by a level drain and knocked down to sub level 8.
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May 29, 2011 20:47
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Spiderdrake posted:We're all aware, the question is more rooted in "why does this keep coming up in the thread". Are you asking why nerds get obsessed with stuff?
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May 29, 2011 20:47
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terminal mehmet posted:Are you asking why nerds get obsessed with stuff?
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May 29, 2011 21:58
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Is that a magic effect around Elan, or just the visualization of his reaction to the kiss from Sabine?
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May 30, 2011 01:08
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Gyges posted:Is that a magic effect around Elan, or just the visualization of his reaction to the kiss from Sabine? That's her level drain's visual effect.
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May 30, 2011 01:12
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Ze Pollack posted:and it requires either DM fiat or making the Big Bad a more powerful spellcaster to make it not succeed. I guess spell resistance isn't a thing in this thread. Or, hell, just use things that have good saves. All the sudden buffs are more useful than "everything dies now" spells. After a certain point it's the DM's responsibility that a player doesn't run away with the game and it's not that hard to do. Eifert Posting fucked around with this message at 09:26 on May 30, 2011 |
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May 30, 2011 09:18
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Toussaint Louverture posted:I guess spell resistance isn't a thing in this thread. I like how people think spell resistance or "good saves" are even a thing against wizards, it's adorable  To be fair, I guess if your players are as retarded as V is, these things could help.
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May 30, 2011 12:25
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Ashenai posted:I like how people think spell resistance or "good saves" are even a thing against wizards, it's adorable Again, not being a spergy powergamer =/= retarded. Some people even play sub-par wizards on purpose because its fun. A shocking concept I'm sure.
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May 30, 2011 15:40
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Who What Now posted:Again, not being a spergy powergamer =/= retarded. Some people even play sub-par wizards on purpose because its fun. A shocking concept I'm sure. You don't have to be a "spergy powergamer" to use effective spells. Spergy powergaming would be taking obscure feats or prestige classes to do things they were never meant to do. This is just... picking good spells. Every class can become ridiculous if you sperg out with enough splatbooks. Wizards, on the other hand, become ridiculous by accident. You actively have to anti-powergame and deliberately choose subpar options to make them even a little bit reasonable. And then they still end up overpowered compared to non-spellcasting classes, they're just no longer utterly untouchable.
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May 30, 2011 15:48
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I've never played DnD but you people really make it sound terrible. Also, can a wizard normally just choose any spell he wants? Because it seems like V has to research/buy any that it wants, which would explain why he is sub-optimal.
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May 30, 2011 16:36
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DnD depends entirely on who you play it with. Most of the people who play DnD are horrific monsters that embody every terrible thing humanity can be.
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May 30, 2011 16:37
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Most of the people who play D&D are trying their best to "accidentally" make Wizards overpowered.
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May 30, 2011 17:24
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Don lluvia posted:I've never played DnD but you people really make it sound terrible. Also, can a wizard normally just choose any spell he wants? Because it seems like V has to research/buy any that it wants, which would explain why he is sub-optimal. A wizard can't just choose a spell, no. They get two per level as it's assumed they do some research on their downtime, anything else they have to buy or get taught. Also, V is a specialist wizard. There are quite a few spells he cannot learn because of this. That's why he can't usually teleport the party anywhere.
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May 30, 2011 17:32
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Don lluvia posted:I've never played DnD but you people really make it sound terrible. Also, can a wizard normally just choose any spell he wants? Because it seems like V has to research/buy any that it wants, which would explain why he is sub-optimal. D&D is an interesting hobby that coincidentally is full of the Worst People. There's actually an interesting reason behind why wizards were overpowered as nuts until 4E. Back in the Dawn of D&D, there were a bunch of nerds playing a wargame. And in this wargame, there were your three basic types of unit: archer formations, melee formations, and artillery. Archer formations contained tens of dudes. Melee formations contained tens of dudes. Artillery consisted of one fragile wizard. Pretty basic rock-paper-scissors balance: wizard beats massed melee beats massed archers beats wizard. So, when some nerd said 'hey what if instead of making our own versions of Helm's Deep we made our own versions of the trip through the Mines of Moria' they more or less took the rules to their nerdy wargame and simplified them down to being a single dude from these formations. So when you understand that wizards were from the very beginning designed to be dealing with entire formations of dudes instead of just the one or two of them, you have an appreciation for why they were so consistently busted. The ground level assumption was 'the wizard is tremendously more powerful than any other single character can be' and they worked from there. (in 4E they're still best designed for dealing with massive hordes of dudes, it's just that they aren't quite as good at butchering/trivializing single targets anymore, and most of their campaign-destroying spells have been politely told to piss off. The butchering is now the forte of the ranger and rogue, while the trivializing is the forte of the big guys.) Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! fucked around with this message at 18:33 on May 30, 2011 |
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May 30, 2011 18:31
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0th law of D&D is still in effect. If the DM doesn't want it to happen: it's not going to.
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May 30, 2011 19:21
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Don lluvia posted:I've never played DnD but you people really make it sound terrible. Also, can a wizard normally just choose any spell he wants? Because it seems like V has to research/buy any that it wants, which would explain why he is sub-optimal. These guys either are A: Trying to attack the system without being genuine B: Only used to playing high level campaigns with artificially leveled characters C: Have never played with a DM who can impose limits on party members Take your pick. Leveling a wizard to the point where he is an unstoppable cosmic force is a royal pain in the rear end. We're talking thirty to forty adventuring sessions where your character is a sniveling nerd in rags who just might kill something if he rolls high and can survive having one hit-point more than a commoner of an equal level. Not only that, but everything that has a brain more significant than "Eat/sex/sleep" should be gunning for his pimply rear end from round one. If levels one through nine aren't terrifying for the PC then the DM is too nice. By the time a wizard has gotten to the levels where he can really throw his weight around he has gotten to research about 10-14 spells without having to find them. This means that the DM has far more control over the player's spell pool than he does. A scroll represents an expense of the most valuable thing in the D&D concept: experience. Experience is what turns a bookworm with no social skills into a destroyer of nations, do you really think powerful wizards will give that up in sufficient quantities to make a buyer's market for scrolls? I don't. Scrolls should be as hard to find and expensive as a fighters sword or armor. Yeah, there are spells in existence that can render a party member irrelevant, but do you really think a player is going to take that when he has to choose it at the expense of spells that can accomplish things other teammates can't do? And why would a DM allow him to find and buy it if it would ruin the party dynamic? Yeah, a wizard who can run over to ye olde Costco and buy scrolls in bulk can render his party irrelevant, but what kind of dumbass DM would let that happen? Really Wizards are easier to rein in than Clerics and Druids, since those get every spell every level. A wizard gets two spells a level, and he had damned well be smart about what he takes because he needs spells to do pretty much anything. A wizard who takes Knock should be grumbling that he had to waste a spell just because none of his rear end in a top hat friends wanted to play a rogue. Finally, the DM's prime directive is to provide an entertaining game for every player. If a wizard IS abusing his role and adversely affecting the party the DM has a myriad of ways to deal with it.
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May 30, 2011 19:44
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So I read your post and I noticed that you didn't even try to deny that wizards are far stronger than non-spellcasters, such that there isn't actually a point in even traveling with a non-spellcaster past level ten or so. I don't get why everyone cares so much about wizards, though, when clerics and druids were even better. I guess they had slightly fewer plot-trivializing spells, but they were even more dangerous in actual fights against monsters.
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May 30, 2011 20:34
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Will you stop arguing spells versus feats and wizards versus everyone everytime a chapter isn't out, please? I've seen this arguement rehashed so many times and I know I'm not the only one who reads this thread who has never played D&D.
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May 30, 2011 20:37
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Nilbop posted:Will you stop arguing spells versus feats and wizards versus everyone everytime a chapter isn't out, please? I've seen this arguement rehashed so many times and I know I'm not the only one who reads this thread who has never played D&D. Well since other D&D comics are out of bounds here, find something else related to OotS to discuss. Aside from spergin out about D&D, the comic doesn't offer that much to talk about due to its infrequent update schedule.
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May 30, 2011 23:21
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Red_Mage posted:Well since other D&D comics are out of bounds here And yeah I don't blame the thread for going a little sour when we're seeing three updates a month. People want to talk 
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May 30, 2011 23:53
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Great grognards.txt is leaking again.
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May 31, 2011 00:20
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Spiderdrake posted:Are there any other D&D comics that aren't mary sue ridden wankfests? If you haven't read DM of the Rings, it's pretty good. Other than that, I can't think of too many D&D related webcomics, outside of Goblins and the various OotS clones.
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May 31, 2011 01:59
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I rather like Darths & Droids. It's like DM of the Rings, only Star Wars.
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May 31, 2011 02:31
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^^^^ drat, beaten, on this of all things.LightWarden posted:If you haven't read DM of the Rings, it's pretty good. Darths and Droids is also pretty good. Consider it an homage to DM of the Rings, since this is playing through the Star Wars movies and also provides some pretty good DM advice along the way.
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May 31, 2011 02:34
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Ferrinus posted:So I read your post and I noticed that you didn't even try to deny that wizards are far stronger than non-spellcasters, such that there isn't actually a point in even traveling with a non-spellcaster past level ten or so. Yes. Yes there is. It's called playing a 'character'. Is this really so hard of a concept to grasp that some people aren't going to try to make the ultimate murder machine?
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May 31, 2011 04:35
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Who What Now posted:Yes. Yes there is. It's called playing a 'character'. Is this really so hard of a concept to grasp that some people aren't going to try to make the ultimate murder machine? I feel like maybe you're affecting extreme stupidity here in order to avoid honestly answering the obvious point I am making.
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May 31, 2011 05:19
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Who What Now posted:Yes. Yes there is. It's called playing a 'character'. Is this really so hard of a concept to grasp that some people aren't going to try to make the ultimate murder machine? I take offense to you calling my Lawful Good Wizard a murder machine. Those were all cases of self defense or, at worst, justifiable homicide stemming from their clearly dastardly plots and my authorization from the gods themselves to use lethal force.
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May 31, 2011 05:52
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Gyges posted:I take offense to you calling my Lawful Good Wizard a murder machine. Those were all cases of self defense or, at worst, justifiable homicide stemming from their clearly dastardly plots and my authorization from the gods themselves to use lethal force. Plus, you know... orcs. \/\/\/\/He's saying that you have to go out of your way NOT to break the game as 3.5 wizard. Soonmot fucked around with this message at 06:23 on May 31, 2011 |
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May 31, 2011 05:53
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Ferrinus posted:I feel like maybe you're affecting extreme stupidity here in order to avoid honestly answering the obvious point I am making. What point? Yes, you can make a wizard that can kill pretty much anything. Whoopty-poo poo. Thats pretty much the most boring thing imaginable, and I cannot fathom why you're acting like every single person is going out of their way to break the game. I suppose you can "accidentally" break the game, but then why would you keep doing it? It's a terrible idea and only terrible people would keep doing it.
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May 31, 2011 06:14
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Oh, it... wasn't an affectation. That's kind of sad!
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May 31, 2011 06:27
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Please go back to TGD and never leave. The both of you. Sometimes, people play D&D to kill everything. Sometimes, people play D&D to roleplay as an elf. Sometimes people do both, and sometimes people do neither. These are all valid options, as D&D is a big tent with regards to what you want to do with it. Stop being cocksuckers to each other because someone doesn't play D&D your way.
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May 31, 2011 06:45
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Ferrinus posted:So I read your post and I noticed that you didn't even try to deny that wizards are far stronger than non-spellcasters, such that there isn't actually a point in even traveling with a non-spellcaster past level ten or so. Have fun dealing with Rakashas! And the point you evidently missed is that it's trivially easy for a good DM to rein in a wizard and make a rogue/cleric/hell-even-a-fighter useful. (Also in real D&D players don't get to hit "r" when they run out of spells, you've been playing too much NWN.) Eifert Posting fucked around with this message at 08:18 on May 31, 2011 |
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May 31, 2011 07:49
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Toussaint Louverture posted:Have fun dealing with Rakashas! Why would Rakshasas present a problem to a party of spellcasters...? Is this you not knowing anything about the game you're championing again? You know what's really crazy thing about the adverse reaction you're having to the acknowledgement of the fact that spellcasters dramatically overpower non-spellcasters in older editions of Dungeons and Dragons? Order of the Stick, the comic we are talking about, not only repeatedly and explicitly acknowledges that spellcasters dramatically overshadow non-spellcasters ("Foolish girl, I am a Druid! I have features more powerful than your entire class!") but uses spellcaster supremacy to drive many of its central themes. Like, Roy Greenhilt, the protagonist, chose to be a fighter rather than a wizard despite the obvious superiority of wizards. If this were a 4th edition game (or a Reign game, or a FATE game, or whatever), he would've essentially been making an aesthetic choice, disagreeing with his father over what kind of fighting appeals to him. But by choosing to be a 3.5e fighter instead of a 3.5e wizard, Roy's rendering his defiance of his father much more dramatic and impactful. And throughout the strip we get to see the consequences of Roy's choice - remember what happened when he confronted Xykon on the zombie dragon? What about the time that Varsuuvius got his hands on near-limitless arcane power, and almost used it to literally end the story, except that the villain was better at using near-limitless arcane power. I mean, poo poo, look at what's happening right now. The protagonists have literally been divided up by tier. The meatbags are stuck down in the mud and dirt of the arena decrementing each other's hitpoints while the two mages soar overhead shooting each other with energy beams. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 08:32 on May 31, 2011 |
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May 31, 2011 08:23
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Toussaint Louverture posted:Have fun dealing with Rakashas! A cleric is more powerful than a wizard, actually. Cleric/wizard/druid are like the holy trinity of spellcaster supremacy, and wizard is usually considered the weakest of the three. I'm not particularly interested in getting into this argument but I thought it worth correcting you on that point!
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May 31, 2011 09:10
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What this thread and many years of playing D&D have taught me is that D&D is a lovely game that isn't very fun and also it's for sperglords. (NWoD kru 4 lyfe)
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May 31, 2011 09:13
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