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Down Right Fierce posted:Isn't that literally anywhere in this country? Like, I live in hell and can still name 3 parks and 2 schools within walking distance. A few years back Miami got some attention because the only place in Dade County where sex offenders could live was in a homeless sex-offender colony under a bridge. Seriously. To me the most amazing thing about that story is that the authorities treat this as a reasonable solution to the problem, to the extent of depositing the offenders there after their release. No politician wants to vote against one of these laws because his next opponent will run ads accusing him of being a friend to child molesters, so basically any law restricting their rights can be passed, in spite of how counter-productive it is. As the CNN article notes, extensive restrictions will just cause most sex offenders to go underground and the system will lose track of them altogether. Another fun one from Florida: 95 sex offenders living in one St. Petersburg trailer park, because the manager there was one of the few people who would rent to sex offenders.
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# ? Jun 1, 2011 00:12 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 05:17 |
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Orange Devil posted:Goro, your comment in the thread about the Mormon brainwashing "school" about how they wouldn't let gang affiliated kids in such places cus they'd get killed combined with a video in the COTB thread about a Seattle cop abusing the poo poo out of a 15 year old girl. I figured, he probably wouldn't have done that to her if she was gang affiliated either. A lot of it depends on the state, the facility, and even the politics of the particular yard you go to; but doing what you describe would have you thrown into a hole so deep your own lawyer would be lucky to find you. Killing a cop in the course of an ad-hoc gunfight is one thing, and serious stripes in its own right. That can and does often count as 'making your bones' too, so that'd be one less hurdle you'd have to cross to join up with a gang if you wanted to (and you're never getting out so it might be tempting). But you're talking about hunting down a specfic cop and killing him in cold blood, which is something else entirely. There's just such a big difference with shooting the cop who happened to be there and hunting a specific one down like on Predator 2 or something. Understand you'd be the next Unabomber or Charlie Manson according to the media as soon as you were caught- if the cops even bothered to take you alive. You wouldn't be in the general population (no judge or warden in the country is going to determine you anything other than the highest possible security or 'administrative' risk), and you'd be on death row anyway. The inmates would definitely respect you from afar though, everyone likes a figurehead. Even if you wouldn't be the next Mumia, maybe you might be the next Tookie.
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# ? Jun 1, 2011 04:09 |
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Just throwing this out there in case anyone finds it interesting: An old acquaintance of mine is in prison in New York, he has a blog about it (seeing as he is an Englishman who has never been to any prison before it's a very fish out of water situation), here's a post by one of his visitors over what they have to go through: quote:I fill out the day visitor form and read over the many signs about what's acceptable and what's not. I was warned in advance not to wear anything with a logo or slogan on it, no hats, 'designer alterations' to clothing (including rips in jeans) etc. There's also an entire section of signs here about women and what's acceptable, boiling down to no flesh on display, nothing figure enhancing or suggestive, etc. As others arrive, there's a nice atmosphere. Plenty of family or women with kids (two women are sent away to get changed, one asks what's wrong with what she's wearing to be told "Oh honey, it's all wrong!") and after a wait outdoors we're allowed in to the reception area where we have our bags x-rayed and receive our locker keys to dump everything we're not taking in with us. We are then drug tested via a pocket swipe system like they use at airports and go upstairs to the visiting area.
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 00:01 |
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America’s Most Isolated Federal Prisoner Describes 10,220 Days in Extreme Solitary Confinement. quote:Thomas Silverstein, who has been described as America’s “most isolated man,” has been held in an extreme form of solitary confinement under a “no human contact” order for 28 years. Thomas Silverstein posted:The cell was so small that I could stand in one place and touch both walls simultaneously. The ceiling was so low that I could reach up and touch the hot light fixture.
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 07:31 |
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Competition posted:Just throwing this out there in case anyone finds it interesting: Mind linking to the blog? Assuming it's not private.
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 08:32 |
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HFG, what's your take on the recent flooding of the Mississippi w/r/t Angola Prison? I only caught a few tidbits here and there, but I got the sense that parts of the prison were under water and that prisoners were being used for flood control measures throughout the state (and possibly others).
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 12:20 |
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Somehow I doubt the situation for inmates in Michigan is as rosy as depicted: School superintendent requests school be turned into prison quote:
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 14:21 |
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joat mon posted:As for false narrative of jail as the poor man's hotel/ hospital, I don't have any data, but five years' worth of anecdote: In five years of public defender work at the trial level, I never once had a client who wanted more time or chose in-time over probation or wanted to stay in longer to get more medical treatment. Winter or summer, felony or misdemeanor, it didn't matter. Bum the Sad fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Jun 2, 2011 |
# ? Jun 2, 2011 14:50 |
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DonnyJepp posted:Somehow I doubt the situation for inmates in Michigan is as rosy as depicted: Well at first you might feel outrage but as you carry on reading it it sound more like someone asking for better funding with their school. It's kinda impressive that the prisions are being paid more than schools are.
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 14:57 |
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Yeah, reading the whole thing it comes off more as a satire.
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 15:18 |
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Bum the Sad posted:Bullshit, I've known people who've chose to spend a weekend in jail over a year of harassing and demeaning probation. Around here you can't trade a year's probation for a weekend in jail. If we could, we'd do it all the time. Anyway, that has nothing to do with going to jail to get free food and housing - you're talking about something completely different: Somebody making a very mature decision to put up with a little bit of suck now to forego a lot of suck (PO's gently caress-gently caress games or revocation from reoffending) later. However, I do advise my clients who are going to prison that it will probably be better for them if they discharge their sentence than if they take parole, even if it means a few more months in. If you discharge, you're done. Of you take parole, even though you're out a little earlier, you're on the hook for the remaining 2/3 of your time and subject to revocation and going back in. Unfortunately, most people aren't very good at making rational choices, particularly when it requires delayed gratification. If we could spend 30-40k a year per schoolkid on the front end, there'd be a lot less of them going to prison in later years.
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 16:02 |
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quote:Consider the life of a Michigan prisoner. They get three square meals a day. Access to free health care. Internet. Cable television. Access to a library. A weight room. Computer lab. They can earn a degree. A roof over their heads. Clothing. Everything we just listed we DO NOT provide to our school children. Michigan school children don't get access to libraries, computer labs, roofs, or the internet? Is this a mistake or is it really that bad?
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 16:49 |
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Rutibex posted:Michigan school children don't get access to libraries, computer labs, roofs, or the internet? Is this a mistake or is it really that bad? I would bet that the prisoners don't get any of those things.
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 17:30 |
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Zeitgueist posted:I would bet that the prisoners don't get any of those things. They probably get roofs. And internet access, for an hour a week, at approved sites, supervised.
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 17:55 |
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We're nearing that states some places in northern europe, and by all accounts things are worse some places in the states, so perhaps? I know nothing about the U.S. school system apart from hearsay, sorry.
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 18:11 |
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Tias posted:We're nearing that states some places in northern europe, and by all accounts things are worse some places in the states, so perhaps? I know nothing about the U.S. school system apart from hearsay, sorry. There are certainly schools in parts of the US that have no or very little access to libraries, computers, or the internet. I think they all still have roofs however.
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 18:19 |
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Dominion posted:There are certainly schools in parts of the US that have no or very little access to libraries, computers, or the internet. I think they all still have roofs however. My school had a leaky roof and no AC sometimes. Bill and Melinda Gates foundation gave it money last year because the teachers are awesome though. That was in Memphis, TN.
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 19:06 |
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Tigntink posted:My school had a leaky roof and no AC sometimes. Bill and Melinda Gates foundation gave it money last year because the teachers are awesome though. That was in Memphis, TN. I raise you abestos removal during school hours and air conditioning only in the administrator's offices.
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 19:20 |
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Tigntink posted:My school had a leaky roof and no AC sometimes. Bill and Melinda Gates foundation gave it money last year because the teachers are awesome though. That was in Memphis, TN. Lack of AC is really common in Baltimore city schools. When it's very hot they have to let the kids out early because it's 90+ degrees in the classrooms.
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 19:40 |
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My high school had no A/C and mold growing on the walls. The lights were also always going out due to bad wiring. It was also overcrowded by 50%. Built for 700, had about 1100.
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# ? Jun 2, 2011 22:13 |
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I've actually never seen one that did have A/C in classrooms, and that's after attending fourteen schools from K-12 thanks to a military family.
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# ? Jun 3, 2011 03:04 |
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The Florida Department of Corrections wants you to rest easy that A/C is very rare in Florida prisons. It even has a helpful website on this topic for you, which you are encouraged to print out and pass around to all your friends.
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# ? Jun 3, 2011 03:34 |
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Grave $avings posted:HFG, what's your take on the recent flooding of the Mississippi w/r/t Angola Prison? I only caught a few tidbits here and there, but I got the sense that parts of the prison were under water and that prisoners were being used for flood control measures throughout the state (and possibly others). Using prison labor for flood relief is relatively common, and unsurprisingly many inmates do it willingly. It's their communities getting flooded after all. quote:"They're out there doing quite a service to the community filling those sandbags," said Ralph Frazee with Homeland Security. The prison crews are turning out about 10,000 sandbags a day, but even though it's dirty, tiring work the crew members say it's worth it. As for Angola, according to the Dept of Health & Human Services, "evacuations of Angola Prison in West Feliciana Parish were completed on May 16, 2011. No further evacuations are anticipated."
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# ? Jun 3, 2011 03:45 |
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HidingFromGoro posted:Using prison labor for flood relief is relatively common, and unsurprisingly many inmates do it willingly. It's their communities getting flooded after all. Interesting, it didn't really occur to me that prisoners would do that work willingly (since I don't normally associate "humanitarian" with "Angola Prison"), but it seems it's somewhat empowering for them at least.
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# ? Jun 3, 2011 12:09 |
HidingFromGoro posted:The Florida Department of Corrections wants you to rest easy that A/C is very rare in Florida prisons. "Don't worry folks, we do our best to treat inmates like poo poo."
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# ? Jun 3, 2011 12:22 |
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Building levees is something that people volunteer for to feel good about themselves, so having prisoners do it for low wages is something that doesn't actually bother me. Labor is needed, it's not a particularly dangerous or difficult job, and the rationale is positive rather than punitive. Of course this doesn't excuse the many other prison labor problems, but building levees I can get behind. I could see a hypothetical sane, fair and just prison system doing exactly the same thing. The air-conditioning outrage to me is the same phenomenon as the color TV outrage. It's something old people think of as a luxury, therefore people deny it to the poor and powerless to score points with conservative olds. Waiting for people to die isn't a viable strategy for change, but at least it's a comforting baseline.
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# ? Jun 3, 2011 21:12 |
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It's still labor, and a form of such that is coached in manipulative terms so real "people" don't have to volunteer. I'd side with you, but prison labor being what it is, we're seeing another form of slavery here.
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# ? Jun 3, 2011 21:16 |
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Grave $avings posted:Interesting, it didn't really occur to me that prisoners would do that work willingly (since I don't normally associate "humanitarian" with "Angola Prison"), but it seems it's somewhat empowering for them at least. In the northwest our prisoners raise endangered species and take care of kittens and puppies if they are on good behavior. http://www.komonews.com/news/local/107349239.html quote:
Here's the frog story http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009421766_inmatefrogs06m.html In crazy surprising news - The inmates who do this are less violent! WHO KNEW?!
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# ? Jun 3, 2011 21:21 |
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Tigntink posted:In crazy surprising news - The inmates who do this are less violent! WHO KNEW?!
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# ? Jun 3, 2011 22:27 |
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Hey Goro, This is without question the most interesting thread that I've ever read on SA. I read it through once - shocked, even though I thought that I was fairly well read on the issue, and a second time just to collect up all of the links for further study. Can you recommend some books or whatever that give some historical analysis of how gangs were created after Attica in order to control the inmate population? I'm most interested in how race was reformulated in prisons to create racialized gangs. What was the racial dynamic in prisons like before Attica, and how was it changed (like, what was the specific role of the prison management in the creation and growth of the new gangs)? I guess the question that I'd really like to get at is if and how Attica can be compared to - say, Bacon's Rebellion, another turning point in American history which (at least in my mind) promulgated racialized slavery? I'd really like to read in depth about Attica and its aftermath with regards to race relations, generally. Can you help me out?
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# ? Jun 4, 2011 01:38 |
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Tokyo Jesus posted:Hey Goro, Lockdown America: Police and Prisons in the Age of Crisis The Color of Justice: Race, Ethnicity, and Crime in America and to a lesser extent The Perpetual Prisoner Machine: How America Profits From Crime
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# ? Jun 4, 2011 02:30 |
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Keep Autism Wired posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9knn1uUM7E4 This is despicable. The idea that private prisons have an agenda made me think of a question though: In states that have both private prisons and the death penalty, are any of the prisons/corporations/whatever pushing to remove it, in favor of life inprisonment without parole, for... guaranteed income, so to speak? Shimrra Jamaane posted:Correct me if I am wrong, but there has never been an actual proven statistical study of people choosing to commit crimes just to be able to go into the "relative" care of prison right? Not a study, but I'll type a snippet from this book: Crime School: Money Laundering (2004) by Chris Mathers (not his real name), twenty year veteran of the RCMP , and undercover officer. (Forward by Norman Inkster, former Commisioner of the RCMP and President of Interpol, and a compliment on the back by a former CSIS director) From time to time, the police will intercept the private communications of prisoners by tapping the payphones or by bugging their cells or the visiting rooms. You usually don't get a whole lot of intelligence from these kinds of intercepts, but once in a while, you do. And just to show you how things are, here's a short transcript from an intercept that was made in the early 1990s. The inmate is a Russian criminal, locked up in Kingston Penitentiary, in Canada. He is calling his friend, presumably another criminal, in St. Petersburg, in the former Soviet Union. Inmate: I'm in prison in Canada and I eat meat three times a day. Friend: Meat? Inmate: Yes. And potatoes... you should come here and commit a crime. Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jun 4, 2011 |
# ? Jun 4, 2011 04:28 |
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Mister Macys posted:This is despicable. There really aren't enough death sentences for that to be cost-effective, both in number of inmates and the PR damage from opposing the death penalty. What they do instead is influence legislation on things like immigration law, which ensures thousands of inmates per year instead of one death-row guy every few years. Don't believe me? Check this out, and remember that's only one bill in one state.
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# ? Jun 4, 2011 04:55 |
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Wait a minute, if Arizona is one of the most broke states in the Union, and if prisons are paid with tax bucks, how the hell is that bill getting any traction? Is the solution to every problem in Arizona to go deeper in debt? (as evidenced by Glendale sacrificing it's sewage/drainage reserve money to keep the Coyotes another year) Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Jun 4, 2011 |
# ? Jun 4, 2011 05:07 |
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Mister Macys posted:Wait a minute, if Arizona is one of the most broke states in the Union, and if prisons are paid with tax bucks, how the hell is that bill getting any traction?
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# ? Jun 4, 2011 08:23 |
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nm posted:Do you care about money or one of these sicko perv violent illegal alien drug using commies getting out and raping your daughter, wife, and killing you? I'm Canadian, and single, so... the first one? Yeah, definitely the first one. Seriously though, hasn't anyone told Arizona that the best way to not dig yourself into a hole is to... you know, stop loving digging? Actually, that begs another question: How much of a deficit would Arizona have to run/accrue before they default? And how likely is it to happen, within say, ten years? Also, what would the fallout of such an event be? I'm amazed the industry hasn't lobbied the feds to allow them to negotiate housing prisoners from/with other countries, like that one to the south... Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Jun 4, 2011 |
# ? Jun 4, 2011 09:52 |
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Funny story about that: U.S. states don't run deficits. Most have budget-balancing provisions in their constitutions that force them to only make pro-cyclical budget decisions. This is the main way the federal government exerts power over state-level decisions, since the states are always on the verge of a budget meltdown and need Federal aid for just about everything. But it's not enough, so states have to pull short-term budget wizardry just to maintain their most basic services. Arizona, for example, recently signed a long-term lease on its capitol building over to a private wealth fund and now rents the capitol from the private company. It did this to generate money selling the lease, but that money will be gone long before the state gets the capitol building back. States all over the country take these kinds of rear end-backwards insane deals to cover budget holes because they aren't allowed to run deficits. So they make deals which are essentially borrowing money anyway, but much worse. Man explaining this country always makes it sound worse than when I started explaining.
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# ? Jun 4, 2011 10:37 |
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You know how you always read about states cutting Education budgets? Specifically, California and Florida? I've been hearing/reading that for like, ten years. How can they have been cutting them every year, if they never increase them? Shouldn't at least one state have hit zero for its Education budget by now?
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# ? Jun 4, 2011 11:07 |
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On the "Overtime" segment of Real Time With Bill Maher last night ( here for free on HBO.com), they touched on prison reform and poverty and all that good stuff. Nice to see it coming up in conversation as a real issue finally.
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# ? Jun 4, 2011 21:35 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 05:17 |
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Eat This Glob posted:On the "Overtime" segment of Real Time With Bill Maher last night ( here for free on HBO.com), they touched on prison reform and poverty and all that good stuff. Nice to see it coming up in conversation as a real issue finally.
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# ? Jun 4, 2011 22:56 |