AIRPOWER/Cold War - Its literally the first two lines of their hymn

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > AIRPOWER/Cold War - Its literally the first two lines of their hymn

«‹›1991 »

Sunday Punch: Mar 4, 2009; There you are in your home, and the soldiers smash down the door and tell you you're in the middle of World War III. Something's gone wrong with time.

New background found, A-7 Corsairs loaded for bear. Also everything else appears to be on fire.

Click for full size.

# ? May 28, 2011 11:06

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# ? May 9, 2024 23:29

Smiling Jack: Dec 2, 2001; I sucked a dick for bus fare and then I walked home.

Sunday Punch posted:

New background found, A-7 Corsairs loaded for bear. Also everything else appears to be on fire.

Click for full size.

Goddamit, the whole world might be on fire from the nuclear armageddon, but we are dropping these loving 500lb bombs!. SIOP demands it!

I heard once when someone actually sat down and examined nuclear war plans back in the '50s they had things like the Navy executing a nuclear strike on a naval base while a B-52 had just finished nuking a Soviet airbase a half mile away, and in any event a half-dozen ICBMs and SLBMs were obilterating the place in any event.

Overkill and fratricide all over the place, which was why SIOP was created I guess.

edit: corrected SIOP mistakes

Smiling Jack fucked around with this message at 17:52 on May 28, 2011

# ? May 28, 2011 17:45

iyaayas01: Feb 19, 2010; Perry'd

Sunday Punch posted:

New background found, A-7 Corsairs loaded for bear. Also everything else appears to be on fire.

Click for full size.

I'm trying to figure out what's going on with those racks on the inner pylons...they look like TERs but they're only loaded 2x, like they're MERs.

Smiling Jack posted:

Goddamit, the whole world might be on fire from the nuclear armageddon, but we are dropping these loving 500lb bombs!. SIOP demands it!

I heard once when someone actually sat down and examined nuclear war plans back in the '50s they had things like the Navy executing a nuclear strike on a naval base while a B-52 had just finished nuking a Soviet airbase a half mile away, and in any event a half-dozen ICBMs and SLBMs were obilterating the place in any event.

Overkill and fratricide all over the place, which was why SIOP was created I guess.

edit: corrected SIOP mistakes

Yeah, a nuclear war pre-SIOP would've involved serious amounts of fratricide among US/NATO forces.

# ? May 29, 2011 09:03

Styles Bitchley: Nov 13, 2004; FOR THE WIN FOR THE WIN FOR THE WIN

Slo-Tek posted:

Then the Navy declined to purchase the F-16, had Northrop re-design the F-17 bigger, then gave the resulting design and the production contract to McDonnell-Douglas to built the F-18 Hornet. Military procurement is weird.

Indeed, especially when you have international procurement also pressuring things as the case with the F-16/17 program. Looking back at the adoption and development of the 70's, I think how much was going down, and how much of the America's air power is still from that period and essentially 40+ years old, at least in it's core design.

Then again that seems par for the course, from rifles to helicopters to tanks, we aren't fielding much of anything that is truly new. In a little over a month we will launch our last Space Shuttle, another product of that era. Without a clear sense of purpose and urgency, we are still floundering in the aftermath of the Cold War. Perhaps even worse, with little to no "peace dividend" claimed either.

# ? May 29, 2011 14:41

Groda: Mar 17, 2005; Hair Elf

iyaayas01 posted:

Slo-Tek, those pictures were awesome, especially the engine test bed pre-BUFF. Regarding the Cutlass, it's amazing just how much the Westinghouse engine debacles of the '40s and '50s hosed US military aviation, specifically Naval Aviation.

Any more on the Westinghouse problems?

# ? May 29, 2011 21:10

SterlingArcher: Sep 19, 2010

Groda posted:

Any more on the Westinghouse problems?

Both of my grandparents worked at Westinghouse for 30+ years, I believe I will be seeing them tomorrow so I will ask.

# ? May 30, 2011 01:04

Colonel K: Jun 29, 2009

Well It has taken me a few days to make my way through the whole thread, but it has been fantastic.

I'd like to relate these videos to the posts about Jaguars a number of pages ago.

Jaguar landing on Motorway . I think this is the only fighter jet to have landed on a British road / motorway. I believe it was a demonstration flown from Warton. I find the tall spindly undercarriage quite fascinating. In the second video the over wing pylons look pretty odd.
Soft field take off

Bonus Red arrows video from the late sixties. It does seem like the 60's and 70's really had some awesome airshows where pilots could really skim the deck. The video for the 80's promotion tickled me when they had a Concorde formation.

# ? May 30, 2011 02:21

iyaayas01: Feb 19, 2010; Perry'd

Groda posted:

Any more on the Westinghouse problems?

When I'm not strung out from being up for 36 hours straight I'll see what I can do.

Colonel K posted:

Well It has taken me a few days to make my way through the whole thread, but it has been fantastic.

I'd like to relate these videos to the posts about Jaguars a number of pages ago.

Jaguar landing on Motorway . I think this is the only fighter jet to have landed on a British road / motorway. I believe it was a demonstration flown from Warton. I find the tall spindly undercarriage quite fascinating. In the second video the over wing pylons look pretty odd.
Soft field take off

Bonus Red arrows video from the late sixties. It does seem like the 60's and 70's really had some awesome airshows where pilots could really skim the deck. The video for the 80's promotion tickled me when they had a Concorde formation.

drat...that Jag had quite the sink rate landing on the road.

And yeah, the Red Arrows were insane back then. I remember reading a story about the air boss at the Reading Airshow, which was the Wild West of airshows, freaking out over a Red Arrows performance. I mean, seriously, the Reading show was like Paris, Farnborough, the RIAT at Fairford, and Oshkosh all rolled into one, complete with complimentary hospitality tents with free booze and hot chicks in hot pants and wet t-shirts galore. Seriously, I'm not exaggerating. Actually, here's the story: "That '70s Airshow." It is well worth a read. Here's the section about the Red Arrows performance...

quote:

In 1966 Reading hosted its first military aerobatics team: the U.S. Navy Blue Angels, flying Grumman F11F-1 Tigers. Two years later, the U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds came to town in F-100D Super Sabres. Then in June 1972, the British Royal Air Force Red Arrows invaded Reading as part of their North American debut, flying Hawker Siddeley Gnats in a formation of nine. And the norms of airshow performance changed forever.

At the time, the term �energy toward the crowd� hadn�t been coined, but Cianci intuitively knew the dangerous physics. Modern airshows set a safety buffer called scatter distance: the product of the airspeed and the altitude the aircraft achieves at the most critical point of a maneuver. It is intended to provide breathing room if plans go astray (as they did in 1988, when Italian air force jets collided as one headed toward the crowd during a perfomance in Ramstein, Germany, killing 70 spectators and injuring hundreds). Today, flights over a primary spectator area must be straight and level or climbing, and in a direction perpendicular to the forward edge or �showline� of the cluster of fans, never during or while exiting an aerobatic maneuver.

�The Red Arrows didn�t care,� recalls Cianci, who says that the team flew �their most dangerous maneuvers directly towards the thickest part of the crowd. After performing, they did a flyby within 100 feet of the tower, below our eye level�we were 65 feet in the tower cab�right over the chalets and VIP crowd.�

Airshow performer Bobby Bishop, pilot of the world�s smallest jet, the Bede BD-5J, remembers that 1972 appearance. �The Red Arrows were told by the FAA inspector, John Doster, to fly the routine the way they normally flew it,� he says. �I was by my plane watching the airshow, and I didn�t know which way to run. Bomb bursts right at the crowd, multiple solution crosses, and recovering 100 feet over the crowd�s heads.�

Cianci adds that even the Red Arrows� C-130 transport buzzed 150 feet over a line of 7,000 people. � �You stupid Limey son-of-a-bitch!� I screamed at the C-130 pilot on my radio. Suddenly I see one of the show managers waving at me frantically from the ground and I realize that [the mike] was hot� live on the public address system to the entire airport. The Red Arrows pilot just came back with that casual tone: �Not to worry, Yank.� They did whatever they wanted. I had to send letters of apology to everyone, from the Mayor to the County commissioners.�

Yeah, pretty :black101:

Also, posted this video about a bunch of NATO jets operating off of the Autobahn over in the AF thread in GiP...thought you guys might appreciate it.

# ? May 30, 2011 08:28

Colonel K: Jun 29, 2009

iyaayas01 posted:

Yeah, pretty

Thanks for that article, I really enjoyed reading it. It is such a shame in a way how things have been toned down. I believe some of the Vulcan displays were similarly nuts.

# ? May 31, 2011 01:06

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Not directing energy towards the crowd can be pretty important..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrB-YQqeNpk

:psyduck:

Also the Brits had some pretty cool cold war airplanes, especially the Vulcan and English Electric Lightning.

# ? May 31, 2011 01:11

Colonel K: Jun 29, 2009

That was a pretty nasty accident. I don't know too much about it but it seems like the pilots got the blame for poor planning and flying beyond their ability. I'm not sure how many hours Ukranian pilots get yearly, but apparently his request for an additional practice over the venue was denied.

I'd feel safer with high hours British / American boys screaming around at low level than pilots who aren't flying so frequently a little higher up.

There is a vulcan and lightning at the small aviation museum next to the airfield I fly from, they are really impressive machines. I keep meaning to pop in when it is open and climb up into the vulcan cockpit.

For some reason we've always been a bit dissapointing in air crew recovery. In the first war we refused to give our pilots parachutes because it was deemed cowardly or an encouragement to bail out and lose planes. Then if i remember correctly , the V bombers only had ejection seats for the pilot and copilot. The remainder had to scramble out the back.

# ? May 31, 2011 01:34

Frozen Horse: Aug 6, 2007; Just a humble wandering street philosopher.

Colonel K posted:

For some reason we've always been a bit dissapointing in air crew recovery. In the first war we refused to give our pilots parachutes because it was deemed cowardly or an encouragement to bail out and lose planes. Then if i remember correctly , the V bombers only had ejection seats for the pilot and copilot. The remainder had to scramble out the back.

Let me guess, officers get the ejection seats and "other ranks" get to plummet with the knowledge the England expects...

# ? May 31, 2011 02:16

Colonel K: Jun 29, 2009

Frozen Horse posted:

Let me guess, officers get the ejection seats and "other ranks" get to plummet with the knowledge the England expects...

Sort of, except that I think all the bomber crews were commissioned officers. I believe it was rather a sore point with them, as pilots and co-pilots hated the idea of having to go back to their friends and crewmembers families and break the news.

It was found that if the aircraft went into a spin, the force was generally too much for it to be possible for the rear 4 to escape. They tried to help this by fitting swivel seats with a co2 inflatable cushion to push them upright in the right direction. However if you made a mistake with them you could end up with your legs being trapped.

I'm lead do believe that some pilots and co-pilots put their pins in to disable the ejection seats on low level ops. on the basis of "we're all in it together"

# ? May 31, 2011 02:38

NosmoKing: Nov 12, 2004; I have a rifle and a frying pan and I know how to use them

Colonel K posted:

Sort of, except that I think all the bomber crews were commissioned officers. I believe it was rather a sore point with them, as pilots and co-pilots hated the idea of having to go back to their friends and crewmembers families and break the news.

It was found that if the aircraft went into a spin, the force was generally too much for it to be possible for the rear 4 to escape. They tried to help this by fitting swivel seats with a co2 inflatable cushion to push them upright in the right direction. However if you made a mistake with them you could end up with your legs being trapped.

I'm lead do believe that some pilots and co-pilots put their pins in to disable the ejection seats on low level ops. on the basis of "we're all in it together"

I liked the B-58, XB-70, and FB-111 "encapsulated ejection systems". Don't fart the seat out, eject the whole freakin' cockpit (or in the case of the B-58, a little capsule that make you look like a pillbug coming down under a parachute).

# ? May 31, 2011 12:49

Crab Dad: Dec 28, 2002; behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB

NosmoKing posted:

I liked the B-58, XB-70, and FB-111 "encapsulated ejection systems". Don't fart the seat out, eject the whole freakin' cockpit (or in the case of the B-58, a little capsule that make you look like a pillbug coming down under a parachute).

They probably had their eye on reducing chances of impact with canopy or other dangly bits?

# ? May 31, 2011 13:58

iyaayas01: Feb 19, 2010; Perry'd

LingcodKilla posted:

They probably had their eye on reducing chances of impact with canopy or other dangly bits?

Those are all high speed aircraft (particularly the Hustler and Valkyrie), intended to operate for extended periods of time at speeds well above the speed of sound, at very high altitude (again, more so in the case of the Hustler and especially Valkyrie). The pods were intended to allow the crew to survive a supersonic ejection at those altitudes. Surviving unprotected ejection at any speed past the speed of sound, while not impossible, is rare. Here's the story of someone who did, really interesting read. Unprotected ejection at altitude would invariably be fatal due to oxygen deprivation. The case could be made that a pressure suit is a better solution to the problem than a pod, as the pod unnecessarily complicates things, adding weight and increasing the opportunity for failure during the ejection sequence. The U-2 and the SR-71 both successfully used the pressure suit system over many decades of operation. However, there's one big problem with using the pressure suit system for a combat aircraft: it requires pre-breathing 100% oxygen for an hour. For a crew who is sitting nuclear alert and has to be ready to go at the klaxon, this could be a bit of a problem.

# ? May 31, 2011 14:18

NosmoKing: Nov 12, 2004; I have a rifle and a frying pan and I know how to use them

iyaayas01 posted:

Those are all high speed aircraft (particularly the Hustler and Valkyrie), intended to operate for extended periods of time at speeds well above the speed of sound, at very high altitude (again, more so in the case of the Hustler and especially Valkyrie).

Three times the speed of sound + and 70,000 feet + was for sure a high speed, high altitude mission profile.

So happy I got to see the lone remaining XB-70 in person. It's pretty drat awesome.

# ? May 31, 2011 14:37

Slo-Tek: Jun 8, 2001; WINDOWS 98 BEAT HIS FRIEND WITH A SHOVEL

iyaayas01 posted:

Those are all high speed aircraft (particularly the Hustler and Valkyrie), intended to operate for extended periods of time at speeds well above the speed of sound, at very high altitude (again, more so in the case of the Hustler and especially Valkyrie). The pods were intended to allow the crew to survive a supersonic ejection at those altitudes. Surviving unprotected ejection at any speed past the speed of sound, while not impossible, is rare. Here's the story of someone who did, really interesting read. Unprotected ejection at altitude would invariably be fatal due to oxygen deprivation. The case could be made that a pressure suit is a better solution to the problem than a pod, as the pod unnecessarily complicates things, adding weight and increasing the opportunity for failure during the ejection sequence. The U-2 and the SR-71 both successfully used the pressure suit system over many decades of operation. However, there's one big problem with using the pressure suit system for a combat aircraft: it requires pre-breathing 100% oxygen for an hour. For a crew who is sitting nuclear alert and has to be ready to go at the klaxon, this could be a bit of a problem.

Some years ago I got to listen to Scott Crossfield do a talk about his time as the Chief Test Engineer for the X-15 program.

During the initial specification, there was heated argument about an ejection pod system. Crossfield's argument was "If we can build an ejection pod system that is safe and reliable for mach 3 ejections, why don't we just leave the airplane at home and fly the pod? Because if you eject during the boost phase, you're going to be flying the mission anyway, with or without the aircraft".

So, the X-15 ended up with no ejection system at all, and on a couple occasions the pilot had to sit in his crash-landed burning aircraft and wait for the emergency crews to arrive to put the fire out and then pry open the canopy.

The other really entertaining story out of the X-15 program was the pressure suits. Early on in the program, they were flying with olive green U-2 style pressure suits. Comfortable and effective. But conventional looking. Then Scotty saw an article in LOOK magazine with artists conceptions of what Future Mercury Space Men would be wearing. All bubble helmets and so on. In a life and death battle for funding, he was sure that congress would take a look at their 50's suits and think that was the past, and put the money in the future. So he went to David Clark, and had him sew up some silver lame' coveralls to zip on over top of the old pressure suits. Made them look good n' Buck Rodgers. Told anybody who asked that they were for "thermal performance"

The Mercury astronauts also flew in shiny silver suits...for "thermal performance".

# ? May 31, 2011 16:01

NosmoKing: Nov 12, 2004; I have a rifle and a frying pan and I know how to use them

Slo-Tek posted:

Some years ago I got to listen to Scott Crossfield do a talk about his time as the Chief Test Engineer for the X-15 program.

During the initial specification, there was heated argument about an ejection pod system. Crossfield's argument was "If we can build an ejection pod system that is safe and reliable for mach 3 ejections, why don't we just leave the airplane at home and fly the pod? Because if you eject during the boost phase, you're going to be flying the mission anyway, with or without the aircraft".

So, the X-15 ended up with no ejection system at all, and on a couple occasions the pilot had to sit in his crash-landed burning aircraft and wait for the emergency crews to arrive to put the fire out and then pry open the canopy.

The other really entertaining story out of the X-15 program was the pressure suits. Early on in the program, they were flying with olive green U-2 style pressure suits. Comfortable and effective. But conventional looking. Then Scotty saw an article in LOOK magazine with artists conceptions of what Future Mercury Space Men would be wearing. All bubble helmets and so on. In a life and death battle for funding, he was sure that congress would take a look at their 50's suits and think that was the past, and put the money in the future. So he went to David Clark, and had him sew up some silver lame' coveralls to zip on over top of the old pressure suits. Made them look good n' Buck Rodgers. Told anybody who asked that they were for "thermal performance"

The Mercury astronauts also flew in shiny silver suits...for "thermal performance".

The X-15 was supposed to end in orbital (well, at least "around the entire world" atmospheric skipping) flights. The program got cut short prior to that happening.

Nothing wrong with shiny outfits that simply are there too look all Buck Rodgers. People wanted Buck Rodgers.

# ? May 31, 2011 16:07

NosmoKing: Nov 12, 2004; I have a rifle and a frying pan and I know how to use them

The XB70 was supposed to be armed with (among other things) the Skybolt air launched ballistic missile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJYtST7zIW8

It was even to be sold to the Brits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEVdMgvUkaM

It got cancelled, but a smaller, shorter range, and more adaptable nuclear missile with multiple mission profiles was adopted, the SRAM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZuV5Ah0uMI

The Air Force still hadn't tired of the idea of an intercontinental ballistic missile being dropped from an aircraft, so they said gently caress IT! and stuck a Minuteman ICBM in the back of a C5, attached a drogue chute, and proceeded to play "hold my beer and watch this".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It7SQ546xRk

# ? May 31, 2011 17:21

Frozen Horse: Aug 6, 2007; Just a humble wandering street philosopher.

LingcodKilla posted:

They probably had their eye on reducing chances of impact with canopy or other dangly bits?

Dangly bits such as your own limbs being blown around in the supersonic wind blast. Also, there was the issue of the thermal pulse from air friction. The SR-71 ejection system is really remarkable for having been successfully used at speed and not involving a pod given these two factors.

# ? Jun 1, 2011 19:25

Dr. Despair: Nov 4, 2009; 39 perfect posts with each roll.

So there's an air show at Ellsworth this weekend. Going to have to leave for work before all the performances are done, but there's going to be a B-2, F-22, and these guys http://www.migfuryfighters.com/ . Hopefully they fly before I have to leave for work, but times haven't been posted for the performances yet. Probably going miss the Viper West demo too, which is a real shame. They were awesome last time they were out here. 600mph passes from an F-16 never get old.

Hopefully I'll get some good pictures this time though.

# ? Jun 2, 2011 00:54

monkeytennis: Apr 26, 2007; Toilet Rascal

Loved that vintage Arrows vid - great find!

The last flying Vulcan is actually based at the airport I live next door to, It's awesome to see when it leaves for displays elsewhere and the like. Last Saturday on it's return the pilot held the nose-wheel up almost the whole length of the runway on landing, a real spectacle.

I later found out the guy actually flew in the Black Buck raids of the Falklands conflict and received a DFC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Black_Buck

# ? Jun 2, 2011 17:59

B4Ctom1: Oct 5, 2003; OVERWORKED COCK; Slippery Tilde

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=68f_1306880662

# ? Jun 2, 2011 21:11

ought ten: Feb 6, 2004

B4Ctom1 posted:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=68f_1306880662

If he'd put his gear down he would have landed. :psyduck:

# ? Jun 2, 2011 21:53

Colonel K: Jun 29, 2009

This may have been posted here before. Low and slow.

# ? Jun 3, 2011 05:33

Arrath: Apr 14, 2011

B4Ctom1 posted:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=68f_1306880662

I'm fairly certain that if I was the cameraman I would've poo poo myself.

# ? Jun 3, 2011 06:13

Armyman25: Sep 6, 2005

I'm fairly certain this guy probably did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvDDDKnNhuE

# ? Jun 3, 2011 06:24

Ruse: Dec 16, 2005; Gentlemen, let's broaden our minds!

Too bad there's no video for this:

# ? Jun 3, 2011 10:42

_firehawk: Sep 12, 2004

Hey we fly low too.

# ? Jun 3, 2011 12:39

2ndclasscitizen: Jan 2, 2009; by Y Kant Ozma Post

Ruse posted:

Too bad there's no video for this:

Does this count?

# ? Jun 3, 2011 13:18

Vatek: Nov 4, 2009; QUACKING PERMABANNED! READ HERE

~SMcD

Did somebody say low pass?

# ? Jun 3, 2011 20:41

Gray Stormy: Dec 19, 2006

Vatek posted:

Did somebody say low pass?

Thats what started this conversation. Weve come full circle.

# ? Jun 3, 2011 20:49

Dr. Despair: Nov 4, 2009; 39 perfect posts with each roll.

Vatek posted:

Did somebody say low pass?

Yeah, this guy did.

B4Ctom1 posted:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=68f_1306880662

On another note, I found out today that the last flying FJ-4 will be at the airshow tomorrow :toot:

e. Just had 2 migs and the fj-4 fly right over my house but my phones sd card filled up right before that, so my video got nothing :negative:

e2. watching an old Mig fly right over your house, then bank over into a turn with fire coming out the tailpipe is amazing.

Dr. Despair fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jun 3, 2011

# ? Jun 3, 2011 20:51

Vatek: Nov 4, 2009; QUACKING PERMABANNED! READ HERE

~SMcD

Goddamnit.

Whatever, it's worthy enough of being posted twice. :colbert:

# ? Jun 3, 2011 21:01

Slo-Tek: Jun 8, 2001; WINDOWS 98 BEAT HIS FRIEND WITH A SHOVEL

Mr. Despair posted:

Yeah, this guy did.

On another note, I found out today that the last flying FJ-4 will be at the airshow tomorrow

e. Just had 2 migs and the fj-4 fly right over my house but my phones sd card filled up right before that, so my video got nothing

e2. watching an old Mig fly right over your house, then bank over into a turn with fire coming out the tailpipe is amazing.

Is this the one they belly-landed the other year? I'm surprised they got it back up and going.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnuKgAcOD2Q

# ? Jun 4, 2011 03:30

Ygolonac

Nov 26, 2007

pre:

*************
CLUTCH  NIXON
*************

The Hero We Need

Gray Stormy posted:

Thats what started this conversation. Weve come full circle.

Full circle is next year, when the grass has grown back.

# ? Jun 4, 2011 04:11

dogmaan: Sep 13, 2007

Apparently the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet got knocked out of the MMRCA due to poor maneuverability.

I thought the F-18 was supposed to be very maneuverable at low speed?

I didn't realise the Rafale and Typhoon were that much better, or is it all just political?

# ? Jun 4, 2011 05:06

Ygolonac

Nov 26, 2007

pre:

*************
CLUTCH  NIXON
*************

The Hero We Need

Was there a B-58 infodump in the thread already? I don't seem to recall one offhand.

# ? Jun 4, 2011 07:27

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# ? May 9, 2024 23:29

ming-the-mazdaless: Nov 30, 2005; Whore funded horsepower

Vatek posted:

Did somebody say low pass?

No-one can mention low flying without a repost of the French Air Force in Chad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nltc_dq_VXI

# ? Jun 4, 2011 07:37

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > AIRPOWER/Cold War - Its literally the first two lines of their hymn

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