The Prison Thread

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Schenck v. U.S.: Sep 8, 2010

Down Right Fierce posted:

Isn't that literally anywhere in this country? Like, I live in hell and can still name 3 parks and 2 schools within walking distance.

A few years back Miami got some attention because the only place in Dade County where sex offenders could live was in a homeless sex-offender colony under a bridge. Seriously. To me the most amazing thing about that story is that the authorities treat this as a reasonable solution to the problem, to the extent of depositing the offenders there after their release. No politician wants to vote against one of these laws because his next opponent will run ads accusing him of being a friend to child molesters, so basically any law restricting their rights can be passed, in spite of how counter-productive it is. As the CNN article notes, extensive restrictions will just cause most sex offenders to go underground and the system will lose track of them altogether.

Another fun one from Florida: 95 sex offenders living in one St. Petersburg trailer park, because the manager there was one of the few people who would rent to sex offenders.

# ? Jun 1, 2011 00:12

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# ? May 28, 2024 21:10

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

Orange Devil posted:

Goro, your comment in the thread about the Mormon brainwashing "school" about how they wouldn't let gang affiliated kids in such places cus they'd get killed combined with a video in the COTB thread about a Seattle cop abusing the poo poo out of a 15 year old girl. I figured, he probably wouldn't have done that to her if she was gang affiliated either.

Anyway, the question then. Let's say you're a regular Joe and poo poo like that happens to your kid and you kill the cop who did it and go to prison. How is that generally taken by the inmates? Does it even matter or are you pretty much guaranteed to be dead cus the guards will gently caress you up? If it does, is that different in the case an established gang member kills a cop? Like, how does this stuff work.

(note: not personally interested in killing cops)

A lot of it depends on the state, the facility, and even the politics of the particular yard you go to; but doing what you describe would have you thrown into a hole so deep your own lawyer would be lucky to find you.

Killing a cop in the course of an ad-hoc gunfight is one thing, and serious stripes in its own right. That can and does often count as 'making your bones' too, so that'd be one less hurdle you'd have to cross to join up with a gang if you wanted to (and you're never getting out so it might be tempting). But you're talking about hunting down a specfic cop and killing him in cold blood, which is something else entirely. There's just such a big difference with shooting the cop who happened to be there and hunting a specific one down like on Predator 2 or something. Understand you'd be the next Unabomber or Charlie Manson according to the media as soon as you were caught- if the cops even bothered to take you alive. You wouldn't be in the general population (no judge or warden in the country is going to determine you anything other than the highest possible security or 'administrative' risk), and you'd be on death row anyway. The inmates would definitely respect you from afar though, everyone likes a figurehead. Even if you wouldn't be the next Mumia, maybe you might be the next Tookie.

# ? Jun 1, 2011 04:09

Competition: Apr 3, 2006; by Fistgrrl

Just throwing this out there in case anyone finds it interesting:

An old acquaintance of mine is in prison in New York, he has a blog about it (seeing as he is an Englishman who has never been to any prison before it's a very fish out of water situation), here's a post by one of his visitors over what they have to go through:

quote:

I fill out the day visitor form and read over the many signs about what's acceptable and what's not. I was warned in advance not to wear anything with a logo or slogan on it, no hats, 'designer alterations' to clothing (including rips in jeans) etc. There's also an entire section of signs here about women and what's acceptable, boiling down to no flesh on display, nothing figure enhancing or suggestive, etc. As others arrive, there's a nice atmosphere. Plenty of family or women with kids (two women are sent away to get changed, one asks what's wrong with what she's wearing to be told "Oh honey, it's all wrong!") and after a wait outdoors we're allowed in to the reception area where we have our bags x-rayed and receive our locker keys to dump everything we're not taking in with us. We are then drug tested via a pocket swipe system like they use at airports and go upstairs to the visiting area.

# ? Jun 2, 2011 00:01

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

America�s Most Isolated Federal Prisoner Describes 10,220 Days in Extreme Solitary Confinement.

quote:

Thomas Silverstein, who has been described as America�s �most isolated man,� has been held in an extreme form of solitary confinement under a �no human contact� order for 28 years.

Thomas Silverstein posted:

The cell was so small that I could stand in one place and touch both walls simultaneously. The ceiling was so low that I could reach up and touch the hot light fixture.

My bed took up the length of the cell, and there was no other furniture at all�The walls were solid steel and painted all white.

I was permitted to wear underwear, but I was given no other clothing.

Shortly after I arrived, the prison staff began construction on the side pocket cell, adding more bars and other security measures to the cell while I was within it. In order not to be burned by sparks and embers while they welded more iron bars across the cell, I had to lie on my bed and cover myself with a sheet.

It is hard to describe the horror I experienced during this construction process. As they built new walls around me it felt like I was being buried alive. It was terrifying.

During my first year in the side pocket cell I was completely isolated from the outside world and had no way to occupy my time. I was not allowed to have any social visits, telephone privileges, or reading materials except a bible. I was not allowed to have a television, radio, or tape player. I could speak to no one and their was virtually nothing on which to focus my attention.

I was not only isolated, but also disoriented in the side pocket. This was exacerbated by the fact that I wasn�t allowed to have a wristwatch or clock. In addition, the bright, artificial lights remained on in the cell constantly, increasing my disorientation and making it difficult to sleep. Not only were they constantly illuminated, but those lights buzzed incessantly. The buzzing noise was maddening, as there often were no other sounds at all. This may sound like a small thing, but it was my entire world.

Due to the unchanging bright artificial lights and not having a wristwatch or clock, I couldn�t tell if it was day or night. Frequently, I would fall asleep and when I woke up I would not know if I had slept for five minutes or five hours, and would have no idea of what day or time of day it was.

I tried to measure the passing of days by counting food trays. Without being able to keep track of time, though, sometimes I thought the officers had left me and were never coming back. I thought they were gone for days, and I was going to starve. It�s likely they were only gone for a few hours, but I had no way to know.

I was so disoriented in Atlanta that I felt like I was in an episode of the twilight zone. I now know that I was housed there for about four years, but I would have believed it was a decade if that is what I was told. It seemed eternal and endless and immeasurable�

There was no air conditioning or heating in the side pocket cells. During the summer, the heat was unbearable. I would pour water on the ground and lay naked on the floor in an attempt to cool myself�

The only time I was let out of my cell was for outdoor recreation. I was allowed one hour a week of outdoor recreation. I could not see any other inmates or any of the surrounding landscape during outdoor recreation. There was no exercise equipment and nothing to do�

My vision deteriorated in the side pocket, I think due to the constant bright lights, or possibly also because of other aspects of this harsh environment. Everything began to appear blurry and I became sensitive to light, which burned my eyes and gave me headaches.

Nearly all of the time, the officers refused to speak to me. Despite this, I heard people who I believed to be officers whispering into my vents, telling me they hated me and calling me names. To this day, I am not sure if the officers were doing this to me, or if I was starting to lose it and these were hallucinations.

In the side pocket cell, I lost some ability to distinguished what was real. I dreamt I was in prison. When I woke up, I was not sure which was reality and which was a dream.

# ? Jun 2, 2011 07:31

Torka: Jan 5, 2008

Competition posted:

Just throwing this out there in case anyone finds it interesting:

An old acquaintance of mine is in prison in New York, he has a blog about it (seeing as he is an Englishman who has never been to any prison before it's a very fish out of water situation), here's a post by one of his visitors over what they have to go through:

Mind linking to the blog? Assuming it's not private.

# ? Jun 2, 2011 08:32

Pepperoneedy: Apr 27, 2007; Rockin' it

HFG, what's your take on the recent flooding of the Mississippi w/r/t Angola Prison? I only caught a few tidbits here and there, but I got the sense that parts of the prison were under water and that prisoners were being used for flood control measures throughout the state (and possibly others).

# ? Jun 2, 2011 12:20

DonnyJepp: Jul 4, 2004

Somehow I doubt the situation for inmates in Michigan is as rosy as depicted:

School superintendent requests school be turned into prison

quote:

Dear Governor Snyder,

In these tough economic times, schools are hurting. And yes, everyone in Michigan is hurting right now financially, but why aren�t we protecting schools? Schools are the one place on Earth that people look to to �fix� what is wrong with society by educating our youth and preparing them to take on the issues that society has created.

One solution I believe we must do is take a look at our corrections system in Michigan. We rank nationally at the top in the number of people we incarcerate. We also spend the most money per prisoner annually than any other state in the union. Now, I like to be at the top of lists, but this is one ranking that I don�t believe Michigan wants to be on top of.

Consider the life of a Michigan prisoner. They get three square meals a day. Access to free health care. Internet. Cable television. Access to a library. A weight room. Computer lab. They can earn a degree. A roof over their heads. Clothing. Everything we just listed we DO NOT provide to our school children.

This is why I�m proposing to make my school a prison. The State of Michigan spends annually somewhere between $30,000 and $40,000 per prisoner, yet we are struggling to provide schools with $7,000 per student. I guess we need to treat our students like they are prisoners, with equal funding. Please give my students three meals a day. Please give my children access to free health care. Please provide my school district Internet access and computers. Please put books in my library. Please give my students a weight room so we can be big and strong. We provide all of these things to prisoners because they have constitutional rights. What about the rights of youth, our future?!

Please provide for my students in my school district the same way we provide for a prisoner. It�s the least we can do to prepare our students for the future...by giving our schools the resources necessary to keep our students OUT of prison.

Respectfully submitted,

Nathan Bootz, Superintendent, Ithaca Public Schools

# ? Jun 2, 2011 14:21

Bum the Sad: Aug 25, 2002; Hell Gem

joat mon posted:

As for false narrative of jail as the poor man's hotel/ hospital, I don't have any data, but five years' worth of anecdote: In five years of public defender work at the trial level, I never once had a client who wanted more time or chose in-time over probation or wanted to stay in longer to get more medical treatment. Winter or summer, felony or misdemeanor, it didn't matter.

Bullshit, I've known people who've chose to spend a weekend in jail over a year of harassing and demeaning probation.

Bum the Sad fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Jun 2, 2011

# ? Jun 2, 2011 14:50

Supeerme: Sep 13, 2010

DonnyJepp posted:

Somehow I doubt the situation for inmates in Michigan is as rosy as depicted:

School superintendent requests school be turned into prison

Well at first you might feel outrage but as you carry on reading it it sound more like someone asking for better funding with their school. It's kinda impressive that the prisions are being paid more than schools are.

# ? Jun 2, 2011 14:57

Gadaffi Duck: Jan 1, 2011; by Ozmaugh

Yeah, reading the whole thing it comes off more as a satire.

# ? Jun 2, 2011 15:18

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Bum the Sad posted:

Bullshit, I've known people who've chose to spend a weekend in jail over a year of harassing and demeaning probation.

Around here you can't trade a year's probation for a weekend in jail. If we could, we'd do it all the time. Anyway, that has nothing to do with going to jail to get free food and housing - you're talking about something completely different: Somebody making a very mature decision to put up with a little bit of suck now to forego a lot of suck (PO's gently caress-gently caress games or revocation from reoffending) later.
However, I do advise my clients who are going to prison that it will probably be better for them if they discharge their sentence than if they take parole, even if it means a few more months in. If you discharge, you're done. Of you take parole, even though you're out a little earlier, you're on the hook for the remaining 2/3 of your time and subject to revocation and going back in. Unfortunately, most people aren't very good at making rational choices, particularly when it requires delayed gratification.

If we could spend 30-40k a year per schoolkid on the front end, there'd be a lot less of them going to prison in later years.

# ? Jun 2, 2011 16:02

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

quote:

Consider the life of a Michigan prisoner. They get three square meals a day. Access to free health care. Internet. Cable television. Access to a library. A weight room. Computer lab. They can earn a degree. A roof over their heads. Clothing. Everything we just listed we DO NOT provide to our school children.

Michigan school children don't get access to libraries, computer labs, roofs, or the internet? Is this a mistake or is it really that bad?

# ? Jun 2, 2011 16:49

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

Rutibex posted:

Michigan school children don't get access to libraries, computer labs, roofs, or the internet? Is this a mistake or is it really that bad?

I would bet that the prisoners don't get any of those things.

# ? Jun 2, 2011 17:30

JoshTheStampede: Sep 8, 2004; come at me bro

Zeitgueist posted:

I would bet that the prisoners don't get any of those things.

They probably get roofs. And internet access, for an hour a week, at approved sites, supervised.

# ? Jun 2, 2011 17:55

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

We're nearing that states some places in northern europe, and by all accounts things are worse some places in the states, so perhaps? I know nothing about the U.S. school system apart from hearsay, sorry.

# ? Jun 2, 2011 18:11

JoshTheStampede: Sep 8, 2004; come at me bro

Tias posted:

We're nearing that states some places in northern europe, and by all accounts things are worse some places in the states, so perhaps? I know nothing about the U.S. school system apart from hearsay, sorry.

There are certainly schools in parts of the US that have no or very little access to libraries, computers, or the internet. I think they all still have roofs however.

# ? Jun 2, 2011 18:19

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

Dominion posted:

There are certainly schools in parts of the US that have no or very little access to libraries, computers, or the internet. I think they all still have roofs however.

My school had a leaky roof and no AC sometimes. Bill and Melinda Gates foundation gave it money last year because the teachers are awesome though. That was in Memphis, TN.

# ? Jun 2, 2011 19:06

baquerd: Jul 2, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

Tigntink posted:

My school had a leaky roof and no AC sometimes. Bill and Melinda Gates foundation gave it money last year because the teachers are awesome though. That was in Memphis, TN.

I raise you abestos removal during school hours and air conditioning only in the administrator's offices.

# ? Jun 2, 2011 19:20

JoshTheStampede: Sep 8, 2004; come at me bro

Tigntink posted:

My school had a leaky roof and no AC sometimes. Bill and Melinda Gates foundation gave it money last year because the teachers are awesome though. That was in Memphis, TN.

Lack of AC is really common in Baltimore city schools. When it's very hot they have to let the kids out early because it's 90+ degrees in the classrooms.

# ? Jun 2, 2011 19:40

Slaan: Mar 16, 2009; ASHERAH DEMANDS I FEAST, I VOTE FOR A FEAST OF FLESH

My high school had no A/C and mold growing on the walls. The lights were also always going out due to bad wiring. It was also overcrowded by 50%. Built for 700, had about 1100.

# ? Jun 2, 2011 22:13

Sundae: Dec 1, 2005

I've actually never seen one that did have A/C in classrooms, and that's after attending fourteen schools from K-12 thanks to a military family.

# ? Jun 3, 2011 03:04

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

The Florida Department of Corrections wants you to rest easy that A/C is very rare in Florida prisons.

It even has a helpful website on this topic for you, which you are encouraged to print out and pass around to all your friends.

# ? Jun 3, 2011 03:34

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

Grave $avings posted:

HFG, what's your take on the recent flooding of the Mississippi w/r/t Angola Prison? I only caught a few tidbits here and there, but I got the sense that parts of the prison were under water and that prisoners were being used for flood control measures throughout the state (and possibly others).

Using prison labor for flood relief is relatively common, and unsurprisingly many inmates do it willingly. It's their communities getting flooded after all.

quote:

"They're out there doing quite a service to the community filling those sandbags," said Ralph Frazee with Homeland Security. The prison crews are turning out about 10,000 sandbags a day, but even though it's dirty, tiring work the crew members say it's worth it.

"It makes me feel good to give back, you know," said work crew inmate Brad Cooksey. "I messed up out there but this gives me a chance to give some of it back."

The sandbags are being called for by the thousands throughout southern Indiana.

The efforts of these inmates may not put them on the front line of the flood fight, but their work is making a big difference.

"Those guys coming in out here and working all day has definitely impacted and appreciated by all the community members getting those sandbags," said Frazee.

As for Angola, according to the Dept of Health & Human Services, "evacuations of Angola Prison in West Feliciana Parish were completed on May 16, 2011. No further evacuations are anticipated."

# ? Jun 3, 2011 03:45

Pepperoneedy: Apr 27, 2007; Rockin' it

HidingFromGoro posted:

Using prison labor for flood relief is relatively common, and unsurprisingly many inmates do it willingly. It's their communities getting flooded after all.

As for Angola, according to the Dept of Health & Human Services, "evacuations of Angola Prison in West Feliciana Parish were completed on May 16, 2011. No further evacuations are anticipated."

Interesting, it didn't really occur to me that prisoners would do that work willingly (since I don't normally associate "humanitarian" with "Angola Prison"), but it seems it's somewhat empowering for them at least.

# ? Jun 3, 2011 12:09

Alhazred: Feb 16, 2011

HidingFromGoro posted:

The Florida Department of Corrections wants you to rest easy that A/C is very rare in Florida prisons.

It even has a helpful website on this topic for you, which you are encouraged to print out and pass around to all your friends.

"Don't worry folks, we do our best to treat inmates like poo poo."

# ? Jun 3, 2011 12:22

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

Building levees is something that people volunteer for to feel good about themselves, so having prisoners do it for low wages is something that doesn't actually bother me. Labor is needed, it's not a particularly dangerous or difficult job, and the rationale is positive rather than punitive.

Of course this doesn't excuse the many other prison labor problems, but building levees I can get behind. I could see a hypothetical sane, fair and just prison system doing exactly the same thing.

The air-conditioning outrage to me is the same phenomenon as the color TV outrage. It's something old people think of as a luxury, therefore people deny it to the poor and powerless to score points with conservative olds. Waiting for people to die isn't a viable strategy for change, but at least it's a comforting baseline.

# ? Jun 3, 2011 21:12

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

It's still labor, and a form of such that is coached in manipulative terms so real "people" don't have to volunteer.

I'd side with you, but prison labor being what it is, we're seeing another form of slavery here.

# ? Jun 3, 2011 21:16

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

Grave $avings posted:

Interesting, it didn't really occur to me that prisoners would do that work willingly (since I don't normally associate "humanitarian" with "Angola Prison"), but it seems it's somewhat empowering for them at least.

In the northwest our prisoners raise endangered species and take care of kittens and puppies if they are on good behavior.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/107349239.html

quote:

MONROE, Wash. - Behind the barbed wire at the prison in Monroe, a unique program is saving hundreds of lives - through an unusual pairing of convicts and kittens.

Kris Howe, who is serving a sentence of life in prison without parole, is one of several inmates selected to raise a kitten in his cell.

"I just try to make the best of what I got," says Kris. "I killed somebody - something I'm not proud of. Wish I never would have done any of my crimes."

Kris Howe is among Monroe's mentally ill offenders, fostering feral kittens for adoption. The program saves the lives of animals that otherwise would be euthanized.

"You work with them and play with them, and eventually they break through wild streaks," Kris says.

The pairing calms more than cats.

The Monroe Corrections Kitten Connections Program partners prisoners with Purrfect Pals rescue agency in Arlington, saving hundreds of kittens.

Travis Cargile, another convicted murderer, also was selected to take part in the program.

"I'm helping an animal that would not have a home and be euthanized - and giving a new chance at life - which is what we look for, a new chance at life," Travis says.

Offenders must meet stringent requirements to care for kittens in their cells. They also must be psychologically stable and follow prison rules.

"I've never had an ambition in life before I knew we could come here and get cats," says Travis.

The prisoners say foster pet parenting builds their self-worth. And it doesn't cost taxpayers a penny.

"It's something positive when there's not a lot of positive things here in prison," says Kris.

Purrfect Pals in Arlington covers all the costs of care, and after spaying or neutering the kittens, puts them up for adoption.

The state prisons at Walla Walla and Stafford Creek are considering duplicating the program.

Here's the frog story http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009421766_inmatefrogs06m.html

In crazy surprising news - The inmates who do this are less violent! WHO KNEW?!

# ? Jun 3, 2011 21:21

s0meb0dy0: Feb 27, 2004; The death of a child is always a tragedy, but let's put this in perspective, shall we? I mean they WERE palestinian.

Tigntink posted:

In crazy surprising news - The inmates who do this are less violent! WHO KNEW?!

But they're also HAPPIER. They're supposed to be sad and remorseful!

# ? Jun 3, 2011 22:27

Tokyo Jesus: Jun 5, 2004; WORST POSTER EVER

Hey Goro,

This is without question the most interesting thread that I've ever read on SA. I read it through once - shocked, even though I thought that I was fairly well read on the issue, and a second time just to collect up all of the links for further study.

Can you recommend some books or whatever that give some historical analysis of how gangs were created after Attica in order to control the inmate population? I'm most interested in how race was reformulated in prisons to create racialized gangs. What was the racial dynamic in prisons like before Attica, and how was it changed (like, what was the specific role of the prison management in the creation and growth of the new gangs)? I guess the question that I'd really like to get at is if and how Attica can be compared to - say, Bacon's Rebellion, another turning point in American history which (at least in my mind) promulgated racialized slavery?

I'd really like to read in depth about Attica and its aftermath with regards to race relations, generally. Can you help me out?

# ? Jun 4, 2011 01:38

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

Tokyo Jesus posted:

Hey Goro,

This is without question the most interesting thread that I've ever read on SA. I read it through once - shocked, even though I thought that I was fairly well read on the issue, and a second time just to collect up all of the links for further study.

Can you recommend some books or whatever that give some historical analysis of how gangs were created after Attica in order to control the inmate population? I'm most interested in how race was reformulated in prisons to create racialized gangs. What was the racial dynamic in prisons like before Attica, and how was it changed (like, what was the specific role of the prison management in the creation and growth of the new gangs)? I guess the question that I'd really like to get at is if and how Attica can be compared to - say, Bacon's Rebellion, another turning point in American history which (at least in my mind) promulgated racialized slavery?

I'd really like to read in depth about Attica and its aftermath with regards to race relations, generally. Can you help me out?

Lockdown America: Police and Prisons in the Age of Crisis
The Color of Justice: Race, Ethnicity, and Crime in America

and to a lesser extent

The Perpetual Prisoner Machine: How America Profits From Crime

# ? Jun 4, 2011 02:30

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

Keep Autism Wired posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9knn1uUM7E4

This is despicable.
The idea that private prisons have an agenda made me think of a question though:

In states that have both private prisons and the death penalty, are any of the prisons/corporations/whatever pushing to remove it, in favor of life inprisonment without parole, for... guaranteed income, so to speak?

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

Correct me if I am wrong, but there has never been an actual proven statistical study of people choosing to commit crimes just to be able to go into the "relative" care of prison right?

Not a study, but I'll type a snippet from this book: Crime School: Money Laundering (2004) by Chris Mathers (not his real name), twenty year veteran of the RCMP :canada:

, and undercover officer.
(Forward by Norman Inkster, former Commisioner of the RCMP and President of Interpol, and a compliment on the back by a former CSIS director)

From time to time, the police will intercept the private communications of prisoners by tapping the payphones or by bugging their cells or the visiting rooms. You usually don't get a whole lot of intelligence from these kinds of intercepts, but once in a while, you do. And just to show you how things are, here's a short transcript from an intercept that was made in the early 1990s. The inmate is a Russian criminal, locked up in Kingston Penitentiary, in Canada. He is calling his friend, presumably another criminal, in St. Petersburg, in the former Soviet Union.

Inmate: I'm in prison in Canada and I eat meat three times a day.
Friend: Meat?
Inmate: Yes. And potatoes... you should come here and commit a crime.

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jun 4, 2011

# ? Jun 4, 2011 04:28

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

Mister Macys posted:

This is despicable.
The idea that private prisons have an agenda made me think of a question though:

In states that have both private prisons and the death penalty, are any of the prisons/corporations/whatever pushing to remove it, in favor of life inprisonment without parole, for... guaranteed income, so to speak?

There really aren't enough death sentences for that to be cost-effective, both in number of inmates and the PR damage from opposing the death penalty. What they do instead is influence legislation on things like immigration law, which ensures thousands of inmates per year instead of one death-row guy every few years.

Don't believe me? Check this out, and remember that's only one bill in one state.

# ? Jun 4, 2011 04:55

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

Wait a minute, if Arizona is one of the most broke states in the Union, and if prisons are paid with tax bucks, how the hell is that bill getting any traction?

Is the solution to every problem in Arizona to go deeper in debt? (as evidenced by Glendale sacrificing it's sewage/drainage reserve money to keep the Coyotes another year)

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Jun 4, 2011

# ? Jun 4, 2011 05:07

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Mister Macys posted:

Wait a minute, if Arizona is one of the most broke states in the Union, and if prisons are paid with tax bucks, how the hell is that bill getting any traction?

Is the solution to every problem in Arizona to go deeper in debt? (as evidenced by Glendale sacrificing it's sewage/drainage reserve money to keep the Coyotes another year)

Do you care about money or one of these sicko perv violent illegal alien drug using commies getting out and raping your daughter, wife, and killing you?

# ? Jun 4, 2011 08:23

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

nm posted:

Do you care about money or one of these sicko perv violent illegal alien drug using commies getting out and raping your daughter, wife, and killing you?

I'm Canadian, and single, so... the first one?
Yeah, definitely the first one.

Seriously though, hasn't anyone told Arizona that the best way to not dig yourself into a hole is to... you know, stop loving digging?

Actually, that begs another question:
How much of a deficit would Arizona have to run/accrue before they default? And how likely is it to happen, within say, ten years?
Also, what would the fallout of such an event be?

I'm amazed the industry hasn't lobbied the feds to allow them to negotiate housing prisoners from/with other countries, like that one to the south...

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Jun 4, 2011

# ? Jun 4, 2011 09:52

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

Funny story about that: U.S. states don't run deficits. Most have budget-balancing provisions in their constitutions that force them to only make pro-cyclical budget decisions. This is the main way the federal government exerts power over state-level decisions, since the states are always on the verge of a budget meltdown and need Federal aid for just about everything.

But it's not enough, so states have to pull short-term budget wizardry just to maintain their most basic services. Arizona, for example, recently signed a long-term lease on its capitol building over to a private wealth fund and now rents the capitol from the private company. It did this to generate money selling the lease, but that money will be gone long before the state gets the capitol building back. States all over the country take these kinds of rear end-backwards insane deals to cover budget holes because they aren't allowed to run deficits. So they make deals which are essentially borrowing money anyway, but much worse.

Man explaining this country always makes it sound worse than when I started explaining.

# ? Jun 4, 2011 10:37

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

You know how you always read about states cutting Education budgets? Specifically, California and Florida?
I've been hearing/reading that for like, ten years.

How can they have been cutting them every year, if they never increase them? Shouldn't at least one state have hit zero for its Education budget by now?

# ? Jun 4, 2011 11:07

Eat This Glob: Jan 14, 2008; God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. Who will wipe this blood off us? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent?

On the "Overtime" segment of Real Time With Bill Maher last night ( here for free on HBO.com), they touched on prison reform and poverty and all that good stuff. Nice to see it coming up in conversation as a real issue finally.

# ? Jun 4, 2011 21:35

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# ? May 28, 2024 21:10

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Eat This Glob posted:

On the "Overtime" segment of Real Time With Bill Maher last night ( here for free on HBO.com), they touched on prison reform and poverty and all that good stuff. Nice to see it coming up in conversation as a real issue finally.

Too bad it isn't even on pay cable, but rather a pay cable show's website.

# ? Jun 4, 2011 22:56

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Prison Thread

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