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Mister Macys posted:I've been hearing/reading that for like, ten years. This is hardly a coincidence. The American economy has been in the toilet for ten years. The housing bubble wasn't a real recovery. Massive federal deficit spending under Bush* and super-low interest rates made the economy look better than it was during those years. *Oh the irony. Our political class has such a short memory.
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 07:41 |
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# ? May 29, 2024 15:14 |
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nm posted:Too bad it isn't even on pay cable, but rather a pay cable show's website. It's a start, I guess. I doubt we'll be seeing the CBS/NBC/ABC evening news covering the issue any time soon, but it's better than nothing. I didn't take Adam "Anchorman" McKay as a social activist type guy, but the site he was plugging was for free protest songs which is cool.
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 18:15 |
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Venezuelan prison
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 18:26 |
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Mister Macys posted:Wait a minute, if Arizona is one of the most broke states in the Union, and if prisons are paid with tax bucks, how the hell is that bill getting any traction? Corruption is the key to the situation here. The state legislature here is overwhelmingly Republican, so all the lobbyists need to do is influence the Republicans. They do this most blatantly. The private prison business actually wrote our SB1070 immigration law. They also bankroll a lot of political campaigns. Our electorate as a group is so stupid, so ignorant, they don't even care.
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# ? Jun 5, 2011 21:30 |
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Torka posted:Mind linking to the blog? Assuming it's not private. No problem, it's a current case so he hasn't mentioned his charges (though the circumstances of his arrest and who he blames for it are mentioned) and since I went to uni 4 years ago I lost contact with the hardcore punk scene which is how I knew him and therefore I don't know the charges myself, I only got linked to the blog by chance and figured out it was him from his old stories and nicknames he uses (he only revealed his name and therefore confirmed it was him a couple months ago). It's also worth noting that he's been there for nearly over half a year now and has therefore posted most the stuff about the prison system he can, it's now largely about his musings on his life before prison. Here's some posts that fit in with the theme of the thread: quote:Things in MCC are definitely a lot more relaxed compared to some of the other jails i have heard stories about..after all, this is a pre-trial facility. Not to say that is doesn't has its fair share of shankings, beatings and what not.. But still, things could always be worse! quote:NEW YEAR quote:In jail things ain't pretty. Here's the address: http://newyorkprisoner63906054.blogspot.com/
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# ? Jun 7, 2011 01:06 |
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Mister Macys posted:You know how you always read about states cutting Education budgets? Specifically, California and Florida? They're trying. Detroit's literally trying to sell off it's public school infrastructure by making the whole thing charters. Things not getting cut every year: Prison spending. It's far more important to spend money on the result of our terrible school system than fixing it at the source.
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# ? Jun 7, 2011 01:15 |
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Zeitgueist posted:They're trying. Detroit's literally trying to sell off it's public school infrastructure by making the whole thing charters.
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# ? Jun 7, 2011 02:41 |
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HidingFromGoro posted:US department of education stimulus dollars mostly spent on education, though the lion's share goes to the prison system.
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# ? Jun 7, 2011 02:44 |
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The Brown Menace posted:US department of education stimulus dollars mostly spent on education, though the lion's share goes to the prison system. School of Hard Knocks.
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# ? Jun 7, 2011 02:54 |
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Some Pollsmoor Infogov.za posted:Young awaiting-trial prisoners at Pollsmoor have complained to the portfolio committee on correctional services of being raped in court cells, in the back of police vans and in prison cells. The very reason I am a good citizen Pollsmoor cells are overcrowded by almost 100%, in some cases like maximum security a lot more, no surprises here. wiki posted:By far the majority of prisoners live in communal bungalow cells, in which up to 40 prisoners sleep on double and triple bunks. Even the tiny single cells (of 2.5 by 2 metres) are occupied by one to three prisoners. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollsmoor_Prison
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# ? Jun 7, 2011 11:54 |
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So, with prison labor, is there any study showing success at rehabilitation with it? Oranges-to-oranges, is the recidivism rate lower? It seems like a good idea, even if the line between vocational training/slave labor is awfully blurry.
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# ? Jun 7, 2011 15:08 |
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I'm pretty sure nothing prison slave labour is used for entails useful job training.
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# ? Jun 7, 2011 15:51 |
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nnnnghhhhgnnngh posted:Not sure it's hyperbole at all. Already seems like prison labor is a significant chunk of the economy. There's prisoner rental; for example BP saved some change, and got tax breaks, for having convicts clean up beaches after their Gulf spill. There are direct savings; IIRC prisoners produce a huge chunk of US military gear, backpacks and webbing and the like just for starters. HidingFromGoro posted:Lockdown America: Police and Prisons in the Age of Crisis You should read that book. It touches on the subject a bit. One of the points the author makes that I find myself paraphrasing a lot in these threads is that the whole point of globalization was a steady supply of cheap and highly-disciplined labor overseas. Prisons are used for some things that are difficult to outsource but really they aren't all that appealing for a lot of obvious reasons: prisons are lovely work environments, fights break out, workflow is disrupted constantly by guards and general prison bullshit. It doesn't make a lot of sense to use prison labor except for a handful of things that for various reasons can't be done in the third world. Prison labor is part of the story, but the economic benefits, from the perspective of power, are indirect: the law-enforcement apparatus in it's current state is designed for total control, and prisons play the role of shattering community ties and pitting the impoverished against eachother. Like a divide and conquer kind of thing. It's much better to think of crime-fighting as something police and prisons do sort of as a bonus in between suppressing dissent and ensuring that the lower classes can never get their poo poo together and start murdering bankers en masse. The reason we have police is to dress up people in riot gear the next time there's a protest, and the reason people put up with them is because ostensibly they "fight crime" when they're not destroying lives. So the economic benefit of prisons turns out to be that they work as a way of protecting the political relationships that make the U.S. such a lucrative place for corrupt shitheads in the first place. It's not necessarily about having PIC and contractors and getting cheap labor at home--those are just perks, so to speak.
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# ? Jun 7, 2011 16:20 |
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Heh. I sent the link to the prison post compilation at http://lf.dont-read.com to my mother, she read it all and now she's talking like a depressed nihilist. But she's also already talking about how she'll be less likely to let it slide when people in everyday life say awful things about prisoner treatment. It's amazing how effective this information is when you just get people to read it.
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# ? Jun 8, 2011 00:23 |
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Torka posted:Heh. I sent the link to the prison post compilation at http://lf.dont-read.com to my mother, she read it all and now she's talking like a depressed nihilist. One of the things I've noticed is that little individual facts can easily be ignored, but a huge wall of text can be wielded like a bludgeon.
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# ? Jun 8, 2011 01:26 |
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Just saw this on the Exile: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/06/07/u-s-inmates-40-years-in-solitary-must-end-amnesty/ 40 years in solitary confinement? I can't imagine how profoundly decimated the minds of those two men must be. When I hear about things like that, the death penalty almost sounds like a humane alternative. By the way, this sentiment about a life sentence being worse for some prisoners than death, I've heard it from a man that worked with inmates at San Quentin for years.
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# ? Jun 8, 2011 17:26 |
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G. Hosafat posted:Just saw this on the Exile: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/06/07/u-s-inmates-40-years-in-solitary-must-end-amnesty/ They are 2 members of the Angola 3. What happened to the third one? He's award-winning author and internationally-recognized prison reform activist Robert King (scroll to picture). He stayed behind during Katrina to make candy for cops and firemen- no, seriously. Here's King getting released from prison after 29 years in solitary: Ear to ear, baby! It's almost impossible for us to imagine how he felt on that day. HidingFromGoro fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jun 8, 2011 |
# ? Jun 8, 2011 19:02 |
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HidingFromGoro posted:They are 2 members of the Angola 3. What happened to the third one? He's award-winning author and internationally-recognized prison reform activist Robert King (scroll to picture).
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# ? Jun 8, 2011 19:55 |
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Now I gotta read up on his story. It takes a disciplined mind to survive such treatment, and I wonder what lessons we can learn from his experience. Absolutely inspiring work can blossom out of prolonged profound suffering, but those are the few lucky people who could maintain their mind throughout their ordeal. I bet he has some unique insights...
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# ? Jun 8, 2011 20:48 |
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nm posted:How long until they make this an argument that solitary is harmless? Solitary, with supervised human interaction and reasonable recreation and "outside world" contact like phone calls, internet, visitors, etc, is not much worse than prison in general. In many ways it's better, because you are less at risk of being raped or killed. Solitary confinement is not supposed to be "locked in a closet with literally no contact or stimulus ever". E: I don't mean that to say that prison isn't terrible, or that Angola in particular isn't a horrible place, just that "proper" solitary is not what people think it is.
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# ? Jun 8, 2011 21:20 |
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nm posted:How long until they make this an argument that solitary is harmless? I'd pay to see that debate, King would eat them alive- doubly so if Dr. Kupers was up there with him. Plus, since King's the master of "kill 'em with kindness," after he got done wiping the floor with them, he'd probably make some cookies to help them feel better.
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# ? Jun 8, 2011 21:26 |
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Dominion posted:Solitary, with supervised human interaction and reasonable recreation and "outside world" contact like phone calls, internet, visitors, etc, is not much worse than prison in general. In many ways it's better, because you are less at risk of being raped or killed. Disagree with all of that.
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# ? Jun 8, 2011 21:27 |
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HidingFromGoro posted:I'd pay to see that debate, King would eat them alive- doubly so if Dr. Kupers was up there with him. They'll wait till he's dead, then.
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# ? Jun 8, 2011 21:28 |
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I just wanted to recommend this fascinating conversation with UC Berkeley Prof Loic Wacquant about the history and sociology of the collapse of the black ghetto and the rise of the penal/ghetto complex; and Wacquant's critique of the "Prison Industrial Complex" and his advocacy of the "Penal State" as a more accurate description of the modern American carceral apparatus. I hope that everybody will listen and provide feedback. Listen here: --->http://www.againstthegrain.org/program/441/id/232343/wed-6-08-11-punitive-turn<--- Wed 6.08.11| The Punitive Turn Loïc Wacquant, Punishing the Poor: The Neoliberal Government of Social Insecurity Duke U. Press, 2009 http://www.amazon.com/Punishing-Poor-Neoliberal-Government-Insecurity/dp/082234422X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1307583802&sr=8-1 What are the real reasons for this nation's unprecedented (in world history) boom in incarceration? Is the prison a tool to fight crime, or does it serve an entirely different function? And what about the notion of a Prison Industrial Complex: does it have any relation to reality? Loïc Wacquant shares his thoughts about the relationship between penal policy and welfare/workfare policy, and much more. http://sociology.berkeley.edu/faculty/wacquant/ http://sociology.berkeley.edu/faculty/wacquant/wacquant_pdf/
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# ? Jun 9, 2011 02:47 |
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HidingFromGoro posted:Disagree with all of that. Yeah, and also I don't think there's any freedom from rapes and beatings in solitary considering solitary still has guards.
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# ? Jun 9, 2011 03:36 |
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Tokyo Jesus posted:What are the real reasons for this nation's unprecedented (in world history) boom in incarceration? Is the prison a tool to fight crime, or does it serve an entirely different function? And what about the notion of a Prison Industrial Complex: does it have any relation to reality? Loïc Wacquant shares his thoughts about the relationship between penal policy and welfare/workfare policy, and much more. It's not unprecedented in world history:
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# ? Jun 9, 2011 04:57 |
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Rutibex posted:It's not unprecedented in world history: Don't post made-up stuff here.
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 04:51 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 05:34 |
Just saw the last part of Justin Theroux's doc about the Miami mega jail. And was wondering what people think of the boot camps. Also, trying a fourteen year old as an adult, what the gently caress America?
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 15:47 |
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Alhazred posted:Just saw the last part of Justin Theroux's doc about the Miami mega jail. And was wondering what people think of the boot camps. Also, trying a fourteen year old as an adult, what the gently caress America? If done competently, boot camps work for some people. You'll get your best results after probation fails but before someone's gone to prison. "Competently" does not mean "put the big, mean, loud guy who did boot camp at Parris Island in charge." Good DIs are worth their weight in gold, but unfortunately, most DOCs don't pay in gold. I'll see your fourteen year old and raise you a twelve year old: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ld-brother.html
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 17:48 |
I like how the DA described him as young man instead of the more correct term "child". It's like she knows that trying a child as an adult is loving insane and is trying hide that fact.
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 18:04 |
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If we can charge 12 year olds as adults then I'm not sure why we even bother with the child/adult distinction. I can't think of anyone who considers 12 year olds adults (other than 4 year olds maybe).
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 18:21 |
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joat mon posted:If done competently, boot camps work for some people. You'll get your best results after probation fails but before someone's gone to prison. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110609/us_nm/us_kansas_drowning_charge
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 18:37 |
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nm posted:Raise you a 5 year old. Maybe What the loving gently caress. Pretty sure in civilised systems you can't even charge (try?) kids younger than 10 or 12.
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 18:40 |
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'civilization' is words, and we use words to conceal our evil. No way the people who make the laws give a poo poo about age as long as it's not rich white kids that get shafted.
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 18:47 |
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nm posted:Raise you a 5 year old. Maybe I like how people in the comments say "Oh well no jurisdiction will charge a 5 year old with murder..." If it wasn't required to make an account to to comment there I would link the 12 year old charged with life in prison as an adult. No one is too young the way our criminal justice system works.
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 19:09 |
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nm posted:Raise you a 5 year old. Maybe gently caress me. My optimistic side hopes this is only a statutory investigation requirement in case the ME rules the death a homicide (as a civil records-reporting matter) and will not be referred for prosecution (or declined if it is) On a brighter note, Oklahoma now has one less guy on death row.
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 21:19 |
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Of course it's a requirement, and of course they're not going to charge a 5 year old.
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 21:24 |
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Adar posted:Of course it's a requirement, and of course they're not going to charge a 5 year old. I used to say that about people under 14 but I got proven wrong.
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 21:29 |
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# ? May 29, 2024 15:14 |
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On the one hand this is the kind of thread about Really Bad Things where people get upset for good reason and followup overreactions are understandable. On the other, no, they're not going to charge a 5 year old for murder and you're being silly. fake edit: I did some followup Googling, and, once upon a time (1929), a jury did decide to convict a 6 year old of manslaughter: http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2000/03/05/loc_kentucky_6-year-old.html. Of course the conviction was instantly overturned and he never served a day in reform school back then, either.
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 21:35 |