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quote:With that SAID, I want to deal as much single target surprise burst damage as I can and I want to look cool doing it! The hybrid swordmage idea sounds kinda neat. I may investigate that a bit more. However, what is the cookie cutter "lots of melee attacks with bonus added damage Ranger" build that lots of (outdated?) guides seem to keep referencing? What would the core feats and powers be that might be associated with that? There's a few ways to do it. As mentioned, 'taking twin strike' is the core of most of them. Now, a few things about Twin Strike - it's pretty dependent on weapon size/static boosts to the damage. Most people go for Bastard Swords (1d10 1H weapons w/ +3 Proficiency), but I think Spiked Chain training in general is likely to be better even though it eats up a multiclass slot. It opens up some lovely Light Blade support (for example, Light Blade Expertise). Grab Two-Weapon Fighting and Swift Blade Style and you start really pumping up the damage.
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Jun 8, 2011 22:10
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Siets posted:Speaking of rangers, I just started a brand new one last night and would like some help! Are you totally married to being a twin blade ranger? If yes, then I would suggest following the OP with an 18 in Str and a 14 in wis, dump dex, boost your con as much as you can and take feats to get yourself up to scale armor, and take the trailblazer paragon path. Something like this guy: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/24022401/The_Trailblazer You are very hard to take down vs. your quarry target starting at level 16, and still hit very hard. Your stats will be 18, 13, 11, 10, 12, 8, and pump str and wis every chance you get. It's not as effective as being a str/wis class, but you do get an extra trained skill and fey step, which is a nice panic button. If not, a bow ranger is very very effective too, and you're much more mobile as well.
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Jun 9, 2011 04:30
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Ugh, just use the Essentials scout. It's basically a Two Blade Ranger that keys offa Dex rather than Str, and has some nifty stances as well. It's twin strike analogue relies on teh first attack hitting to get the second one, but adds Dex to the weapon damage so potentially does more damage. It has another accuracy boost as well, assuming you go light blade (use spiked chain!)
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Jun 9, 2011 10:30
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adaz posted:How do you feel about some hybrid action? If you like teleporting the class that comes to mind is a swordmage, and a swordmage/ranger hybrid might be interesting as an eladrin. The ability scores don't line up except for INT and you'd have to run a 16 int/17 or so, however there are ways of boosting your chances to hit so you'd only be a tad behind a pure striker. There are some cool eladrin feats for swordmages as well, giving you a free MBA when you teleport next to someone as an example. It'd be an interesting way to play a defender/striker. Splicer fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Jun 9, 2011 |
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Jun 9, 2011 13:51
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Splicer posted:hit people twice all day every day. Maybe at third level I'll be able to memorise a third magic missile! (sorry)
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Jun 9, 2011 14:57
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Joe_Richter posted:Maybe at third level I'll be able to memorise a third magic missile! 
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Jun 9, 2011 15:28
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bah, details! Comedy is the splice of life! Anyway, after talking to this, i went to make a spiked chain using halfling scout, but was stymied as the spiked chain counts as a 2 handed weapon, so halflings can't use them 
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Jun 9, 2011 15:38
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Joe_Richter posted:bah, details! Comedy is the splice of life! Without the multi-class feat it's a two-handed weapon - with it, it's two one-handed weapons and gains the Stout property so short dudes don't get screwed. E: Wait, that's Small. I still think they can use it, but the weapon size rules have always been stupid. RPZip fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Jun 9, 2011 |
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Jun 9, 2011 15:49
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Are there any good online databases of all the 4e feats and what books they are in, or should I just suck it up and get D&D Insider?
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Jun 9, 2011 19:03
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I've always liked the Skirmisher Sorcerer build that gets into melee and fries the crisp out of enemy monster; particularly the Cosmic Sorcerer class feature. Anyone have suggestions on how to make the sorcerer more survivable in melee? I've already made a Sorcerer/Paladin Hybrid that spends its Hybrid Talent Feat to get Paladin Armor Proficiency and works really well, but I'm curious if anyone has other options.
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Jun 9, 2011 19:06
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Markovnikov posted:I've always liked the Skirmisher Sorcerer build that gets into melee and fries the crisp out of enemy monster; particularly the Cosmic Sorcerer class feature. Anyone have suggestions on how to make the sorcerer more survivable in melee? I've already made a Sorcerer/Paladin Hybrid that spends its Hybrid Talent Feat to get Paladin Armor Proficiency and works really well, but I'm curious if anyone has other options. Dragon Sorcerors are probably a better bet in general; Burning Spray gives you a handy retribution feature to help dissuade opponents by default, and if you go Dragonborn Dragon Sorceror you can pick up things like True Dragon's Soul which make you even more survivable after you take your first beating. Which won't take that long, admittedly. But the nice thing is that the when-bloodied defensive features that Dragon Sorcerors get don't go away when you stop being bloodied, so with True Dragon's Soul you get +2 to AC and +1 to NADs after the first time you're bloodied. Sorceror/Paladin hybrid is another good way to do it, though.
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Jun 9, 2011 19:12
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I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask this but... Does anyone know if using a dagger as an implement allow you to add sneak attack damage if you're a rogue?
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Jun 9, 2011 19:18
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Markovnikov posted:I've always liked the Skirmisher Sorcerer build that gets into melee and fries the crisp out of enemy monster; particularly the Cosmic Sorcerer class feature. Anyone have suggestions on how to make the sorcerer more survivable in melee? I've already made a Sorcerer/Paladin Hybrid that spends its Hybrid Talent Feat to get Paladin Armor Proficiency and works really well, but I'm curious if anyone has other options. Well, you could hybrid with a warlock to get access to Shadow Walk, giving you partial concealment as long as you move 3 squares on your turn. There are some feats available that also improve shadow walk I believe. You could also run a hybrid Sorcerer/Ardent to give you access to more leader abilities plus all armor but plate with hybrid talent feat. Nice synergy of some powers there too, and the mantles will help out your allies in Melee range. e: I'm guessing when essentials hybriding rules come out sorcerer/blackguard will be a good option. Siets posted:Are there any good online databases of all the 4e feats and what books they are in, or should I just suck it up and get D&D Insider? Get insider, I don't think anything like that exists online. I mean, the character builder/compendium will tell you what books they are in but of course they are insider only. adaz fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jun 9, 2011 |
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Jun 9, 2011 19:22
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Phandy posted:I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask this but... The wording for Sneak Attack says "When you make an attack using a light blade," so if you're a Scoundrel MC'd into Sorcerer, this would work fine, if you are either flanking or have Distant Advantage and the target's being flanked. I'm pretty sure Hybrids restrict the striker feature to that class' powers only, so it wouldn't work for a Rogue|Sorcerer hybrid.
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Jun 9, 2011 19:25
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Gomi posted:The wording for Sneak Attack says "When you make an attack using a light blade," so if you're a Scoundrel MC'd into Sorcerer, this would work fine, if you are either flanking or have Distant Advantage and the target's being flanked. I'm pretty sure Hybrids restrict the striker feature to that class' powers only, so it wouldn't work for a Rogue|Sorcerer hybrid. The Rogue multiclass feat lets you use sneak attack. I had a monk build I was thinking about playing that exploited this, not especially powerful but I thought it was cool.
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Jun 9, 2011 19:48
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Siets posted:Are there any good online databases of all the 4e feats and what books they are in, or should I just suck it up and get D&D Insider? Even if you don't buy insider you can still search the compendium and see the source of the feats. You just can't read the rules text. Try it out: http://www.wizards.com/dndinsider/compendium/database.aspx
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Jun 9, 2011 19:51
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So I've been playing this character for just over a year. I made him when I was dumb and didn't know anything and have continued that trend throughout. My GM has been pretty good to other people about tweaking their characters, but I haven't done much. The main thing I like doing with this guy is shoving people down holes and totally ignoring opportunity attacks. But beyond that I do piddly damage (as a leader, so it's not that big of a deal) and generally keep everyone else up. Do you have any ideas on how to tweak my character? pre:Major Corrin, level 8 Halfling, Warlord Build: Resourceful Warlord Archer Warlord Optional Choice: Standard Warlord Armor Features Warlord: Combat Leader Commanding Presence: Resourceful Presence Background: Officer Who Came Out of Retirement (Officer Who Came Out of Retirement Benefit) FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 18, Con 13, Dex 10, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 16. STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 16, Con 13, Dex 8, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 14. AC: 23 Fort: 20 Reflex: 19 Will: 21 HP: 60 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 15 TRAINED SKILLS History +13, Intimidate +14, Diplomacy +14, Athletics +14, Insight +9 UNTRAINED SKILLS Acrobatics +5, Arcana +7, Bluff +7, Dungeoneering +4, Endurance +4, Heal +4, Nature +4, Perception +4, Religion +7, Stealth +3, Streetwise +7, Thievery +5 FEATS Level 1: Heavy Blade Expertise Level 2: Nimble Dodge Level 4: Superior Will Level 6: Fervent Talent Level 8: Mark of Healing POWERS Warlord at-will 1: Commander's Strike Warlord at-will 1: Opening Shove Warlord encounter 1: Hammer and Anvil Warlord daily 1: Lead the Attack Warlord utility 2: Rub Some Dirt On It Warlord encounter 3: Bloody Ending Warlord daily 5: Stand the Fallen Warlord utility 6: Inspiring Reaction Warlord encounter 7: On My Mark ITEMS Jagged Scimitar +3, Throwing Shield Light Shield (heroic tier), Magic Hide Armor +2, Resplendent Boots (heroic tier), Gauntlets of the Ram (heroic tier), Circlet of Authority (heroic tier), Cloak of Distortion +1, Kord's Mighty Strength (level 3), Potion of Healing (heroic tier)
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Jun 11, 2011 01:35
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How much will your DM let you change? Just feats, or can we re-order some ability scores? Your powers are look fine, was thinking of some feat jiggering to get you some more opportunities. You said like you pushing and shoving people correct? We could set you up as a polearm smashing and killing guy if that floats your boat with things like polearm gamble and polearm momentum
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Jun 11, 2011 03:44
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The feats are fair game, as are the powers. The only thing that really limits me is the fact that it's a Halfling warlord and therefore limited to weapon selections. Fortunately this, plus Heavy Blade Expertise, plus those boots give me +5 AC against opportunity attacks.
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Jun 11, 2011 03:59
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CommaToes posted:The feats are fair game, as are the powers. Your powers aren't bad, I wouldn't swap anything off hand if they are working for you, considering you are a bravura warlord. I haven't really had any luck coming up with anything super obvious, limited as we are by being a halfling and the ability scores. I'm honestly at a bit of a loss, the polearm feats would work with a Talenta Sharrash, but you don't have high enough dexterity to get them at all. I'm at a loss, maybe someone else will have some bright ideas.
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Jun 11, 2011 07:52
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adaz posted:Your powers aren't bad, I wouldn't swap anything off hand if they are working for you, considering you are a bravura warlord. Not a bravelord, a resourceful warlord. And really, this is where you go wrong: having two stats you want high is fine, having three stats you want high sucks. Pick either Int or Cha for your secondary and stick with it. By lvl 8 you should have, at minimum, 20 in your primary (Str). For most characters, being able to reliably score hits is the most important part of being effective. This is also why you should never use a scimitar over a longsword or even a shortsword. Also Nimble Dodge isn't that good, and are you going anywhere with Fervent Talent or did you just want another skill trained?
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Jun 11, 2011 09:53
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J. Alfred Prufrock posted:Not a bravelord, a resourceful warlord. And really, this is where you go wrong: having two stats you want high is fine, having three stats you want high sucks. Pick either Int or Cha for your secondary and stick with it. By lvl 8 you should have, at minimum, 20 in your primary (Str). Resourceful Warlord was for more of a jack of all trades build. It's as much for flavour as anything, but I've been looking at paragon paths, and Infernal Strategist looks to be a good one. I agree having to balance 3 stats is annoying, but my defenses are at least pretty even. I agree with you that the Scimitar's +2 proficiency sucks, but it's the only heavy blade a Halfling can use one handed, and with Heavy Blade Expertise, I get +2 against opportunity attacks. Is a +3 proficiency worth only 1d6 damage and losing my opportunity attack bonus? I ask this because I'd have to totally change my tactics with my +5 AC vs opportunity attacks. The only other option is to take a feat for a Drow Long Knife, which is a heavy blade at +3 a Halfling can use. Nimble Dodge is actually really great. When I'm hit and I use Second Chance, they have to reroll at a -5 and they can't crit. Basically it's my best survival technique. Fervent Talent was seriously only for Insight since our party was lacking it, and I felt it was a better heal than the Bard one. I was looking at the Paladin one to get Divine Challenge. Edit: Rereading this it looks like I'm acting defensive. That's not the case. I'm really just trying to explain my reasoning behind the choices here. I appreciate the comments you have made. CommaToes fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Jun 11, 2011 |
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Jun 11, 2011 15:39
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Have you considered swapping out Combat Leader for Canny Leader or Battlefront Shift? +2 to Insight and Perception isn't as aces as training Insight flat-out, but it's something and you could open up that feat slot, unless you feel that your party could really use the extra daily heal. Battlefront Shift is a bit situational, and depends on what sorts of fights your DM likes to set up, but it can be pretty strong. My alternate take on the good Major involves Brash Assault. Bear with me here, it's kind of a lovely power on the face of it. The part that makes it pretty awesome is the Harlequin Style feat. Then it grants +CHA to all your defenses against the creature you target with Brash Assault for a turn. At that point you basically don't even care if you hit or if it takes the MBA against you or what. Use Brash Assault, then just stroll away with your +2-4 to all defenses. It means giving up Commander's Strike, which is kind of heretical, but nobody who loves shoving people into holes could be expected to give up Opening Shove. Tactician's Invitation lets you put enemies into a state where the next party member to hit them can slide them, which kind of fits with your shoving theme. Create a Target pushes and applies a weird forced-movement debuff. I'd take Shake it Off over Rub Some Dirt on It myself, but that sort of thing is party-situational and there's nothing wrong with your choice there. Deadly Distraction lets you build on the 'Your opportunity attacks are as nothing before this fully armed and operational halfling' angle, and Devastating Offensive grants a slide as well as repositions an ally. I would consider taking either of those. Staggering Spin is hilarious, kind of lets you avoid OAs by pushing enemies out of adjacency, pushes, and lets you kick a guy onto a buddy's sword. I'm saying I'd take it if it were me. Stand the Fallen is really good, though. They're both "I'm gonna wait till just the perfect moment to use this" powers, though, which depending on your personality might lead to a lot of fights where you almost use it then the fight's over and in retrospect you should have gone for it. Inspiring Reaction sounds good, but in my fights my Warlord is just rarely adjacent to anyone because we're usually trying to flank, so I've grown wary of powers that do awesome stuff to someone adjacent. Your mileage may vary. I'd go with Tactical Supervision, because more hits = more dead guys, and more dead guys = less need to heal up. Join the Crowd has a lot of potential if your party composition is such that you think you'll get to use it regularly. As I built this version up, I realized that you just don't have the feat space for Harlequin Style, so I dropped Brash Assault for Intuitive Strike. Weapon attacks vs. Will are very nice, and handing out attack bonuses means more deadguys sooner. Furious Smash (vs Fort, only Str mod damage, but one ally gets +Cha to hit and damage on your target) and Rousing Assault (vs AC, +Cha to HP restored with any warlord healing power) are also worth considering. This version grabs Drow Long Knife proficiency -- dropping the die size loses you 1 point of damage on average and you get the +3 proficiency bonus. I decided to drop the multiclass to make room for it -- your call as to whether or not that's a worthwhile tradeoff. I dropped Superior Will for Improved Defenses, for a FRW of 21/20/20 vs 20/19/21, but the anti-stun/daze bonus on Superior Will is just too good to do without, especially for a leader, so stick with that. The only other thing I'd consider trading for the Longknife proficiency is Mark of Healing -- your call on how saving throw-intensive your fights are going to be. Major Corrin remix posted:Major Corrin, level 8
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Jun 11, 2011 21:33
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New 4th edition players: anyone who tells you that you shouldn't max out your attack stat (which normally means starting with a 20, but might involve starting with a 19 if you're in a one shot or other game in which stat-ups will max out your attack stat at an even number anyway) is literally lying to you for the purpose of harming your character. That +1 to attack/damage and +1 to one or two defenses is superior to +1 to two or three defenses is so transparently obvious that anyone who tells you differently is clearly lying with malicious intent. Like Locus said, there are like a handful of builds floating around based on spamming one particular attack with an overpowered rider effect over and over again that might make an 18 worth it, and obscenely accurate characters like avengers might be able to get away with lower accuracy than normal (but they'll generally do that by using an executioner axe/mordenkrad instead of a fullblade) but in the absolute, undeniable majority of cases lowering your attack stat is the first step on the road to ruin.
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Jun 12, 2011 21:18
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Is it cool if I post a concept in here for direction on how to make it work mechanically? I'd love to someday play a mounted defender of some sort. I don't know if the Cavalier works as a class or not, so I figured I'd ask.
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Jun 12, 2011 22:45
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Cavaliers work pretty well, and are definitely your best choice for mounted combat.
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Jun 12, 2011 23:20
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Really Pants posted:Cavaliers work pretty well, and are definitely your best choice for mounted combat. Cavaliers don't work all that well, because their punishment doesn't scale all that well (based on a secondary, and on a class which probably wants a reasonable spread of stats - CON for surges (HP too possibly), DEX for INIT and REF, CHA for riders and WILL, possibly also WIS for riders if you're trying for Paladin support), and more crucially, has absolutely no support (and what makes DC scary generally is all the extra stuff you can do with it, not the damage per se). They also lack the real threat of the Paladin, which is a mark applied in a burst 5 that is punishable from anywhere as long as the Paladin keeps engaging the target. Cavs are better if you pick up Sanctioning powers, but there aren't all that many available since you get fewer dailies, and no encounter and at-will choices. Taking the new Cavalier multiclass feat from Dragon (once they've sorted out the name of it) and power-swapping for Call Steed sadly doesn't work either, since they removed the level. The best option for a mounted character who isn't either a Small Sentinel or a ranger with Beast Rider/a horse companion is a Jade Horse, the summoning item included in the cavalier steed article. It's a level-scaling, ridable Badge of the Berserker.
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Jun 13, 2011 08:31
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Now that the Executioner has access to an OAssassin daily through the new Shadow Master feat, it's possible to get access to Knock Out without having to limit paragon path options. (Shadow Master for the daily, Sneak of Shadows for rogue multiclass, Adept Power to swap dailies) It takes three feats to get it, but maximizing the Assassin's Strike damage on a helpless target once a day and getting to keep the awesome Executioner paragon path seems worth the trouble. Would those two feats (sneak of shadows is a good feat by itself) really make the difference?
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Jun 13, 2011 10:19
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Ferrinus posted:New 4th edition players: anyone who tells you that you shouldn't max out your attack stat (which normally means starting with a 20, but might involve starting with a 19 if you're in a one shot or other game in which stat-ups will max out your attack stat at an even number anyway) is literally lying to you for the purpose of harming your character. That +1 to attack/damage and +1 to one or two defenses is superior to +1 to two or three defenses is so transparently obvious that anyone who tells you differently is clearly lying with malicious intent. What about leader classes? For example, the taclord that I ran used an 18/18 str/int. Having extra squares on re-orient the axis, or a few extra damage on Adaptive stratagem, etc. seemed like it was worth it.
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Jun 13, 2011 16:55
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Drewjitsu posted:What about leader classes? For example, the taclord that I ran used an 18/18 str/int. Having extra squares on re-orient the axis, or a few extra damage on Adaptive stratagem, etc. seemed like it was worth it. Taclord is one of those builds "based on spamming one particular attack with an overpowered rider effect over and over again" (i.e. Commander's Strike)
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Jun 13, 2011 17:14
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Drewjitsu posted:What about leader classes? For example, the taclord that I ran used an 18/18 str/int. Having extra squares on re-orient the axis, or a few extra damage on Adaptive stratagem, etc. seemed like it was worth it. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jun 13, 2011 |
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Jun 13, 2011 17:17
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This stupid loving argument just further proves the superiority of the 8 Strength/20 Intelligence lazylord
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Jun 13, 2011 17:26
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crime fighting hog posted:Is it cool if I post a concept in here for direction on how to make it work mechanically? I'd love to someday play a mounted defender of some sort. I don't know if the Cavalier works as a class or not, so I figured I'd ask. Dwarf Hybrid Ranger beastmaster /Fighter w/ beast protector feat and mounted beast feat. Congratulations, you are an OA provoking machine and can ride your pet into battle as well as have access to all the crucial fighter marks, feats, and paragon paths. Also if you want to get cheesy get a polearm, polearm momentum/gamble, and you can be a reach 2 OA provoking machine. STR is your primary with both classes, so you don't have to sacrifice much for NADs, although I would say get up to a 16 wisdom or so by paragon so you can pick up superior will. e: 
adaz fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jun 13, 2011 |
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Jun 13, 2011 18:18
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How do you twin strike with a polearm?
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Jun 13, 2011 18:22
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Meepo posted:How do you twin strike with a polearm? I was thinking the Talenta sharrash could be wielded one handed by a medium or larger creature but I was in fact wrong, the small property just means a small creature can use a two handed weapon. Actually, that one isn't even reach, so I was really remembering wrong.
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Jun 13, 2011 18:28
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You twin strike with a spear by using a gythka.
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Jun 13, 2011 18:35
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How dependent on specific races are the optimized builds, usually? I was looking at the Barbarian Bruiser, which is a charge-oriented goliath barbarian that multiclasses fighter to take Kensei as its PP. But I'm wondering if a warforged that took the Warforged Juggernaut as its PP could be as good (or better) without straying from the course's goals. I don't see what you'd be losing out on by going warforged over goliath, and then I don't see any reason not to take Juggernaut over Kensei if you're warforged, but since I haven't actually played a paragon-tier game yet, I'm guessing there's something I'm missing here that brings down the efficiency of the character?
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Jun 13, 2011 19:25
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You lose out on the Avalanche Reaver feat, which allows you to Push 1/Shift 1 on a charge, but requires you to be a Goliath. Otherwise, someone asks the same question as you here, and you can see LDB's response for yourself.
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Jun 13, 2011 19:50
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Klungar posted:You lose out on the Avalanche Reaver feat, which allows you to Push 1/Shift 1 on a charge, but requires you to be a Goliath. Otherwise, someone asks the same question as you here, and you can see LDB's response for yourself. I didn't even think to search the thread. Thanks.
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Jun 13, 2011 19:57
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thespaceinvader posted:You twin strike with a spear by using a gythka. It's a spear, but it's not a polearm.
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Jun 13, 2011 20:00
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