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10-8 posted:I love my job. I'm incredibly happy. The reason you shouldn't go to law school is because there were 20,000 applicants for my job when I applied. 20,000 applicants for about 20 positions. Just because one person (or 20) wins the lottery doesn't mean it suddenly makes sense to mortgage your house to buy lottery tickets. This. I love my job too. But law school came *this* close to being a huge waste of time and money for me. I got very lucky to almost fall into something good. Most aren't as lucky.
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Jun 13, 2011 19:58
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evilweasel posted:Biglaw doesn't do criminal defense unless it's white-collar (rich people committing non-violent crimes, usually federal, usually money-related). You probably want to look for places with well-respected white-collar practices - but from what I gather this may be a good way to get a good resume for when the DoJ starts hiring so it may not be terrible for you. If you want to do white collar crim, you can: Choice A: Step 1: DOJ Honors or Very good DAs office (Manhattan, Alameda, a few others, there aren't many) or Big law (no, you won't do crim) Step 2: US attorney, doing white collar crim Step 3: Big law Choice B: Step 1: Good Public defender's or DA office (slightly more relaxed that for US DOJ). Get to serious felonies. Step 2: Transfer to a well respected practice that does white collar and some blue collar. Federal. You'll merge over to white collar. Step 3: Big law, but you won't want to if you're in a successful practice. ---- These are the the steps that every single successful white collar attorney has done. One was even a partner at Jones Day until he went to a small firm where qualify of life was better. Left out of these steps is lots of luck and skill that you're born with.
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Jun 13, 2011 19:59
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quepasa18 posted:This. I love my job too. But law school came *this* close to being a huge waste of time and money for me. I got very lucky to almost fall into something good. Most aren't as lucky. To continue on the spectrum, I was accepted to law school and decided not to go and took a job in higher ed instead and I'm incredibly happy. I only hang out in here for tacochat and because I still like reading law review articles especially ones that WJ and I begin working on and then he never sends back the drafts he promised to revise
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Jun 13, 2011 20:46
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Thanks for the help everyone. And for those who are interested in Barrow, Alaska, I just read a really good article about its high school football team. Barrow's a really interesting place. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=tundra
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Jun 13, 2011 21:43
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Holland Oats posted:Thanks for the help everyone. And for those who are interested in Barrow, Alaska, I just read a really good article about its high school football team. Barrow's a really interesting place. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=tundra Barrow sucks butthe public defenders there are everyone's friends. It really really sucks.
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Jun 13, 2011 22:13
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BigHead posted:Barrow sucks butthe public defenders there are everyone's friends. It really really sucks. Ice and snow but people love me 12 months of winter but people love me 4 months of darkness gently caress it, I'm applying to guam instead.
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Jun 14, 2011 01:03
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I remember for a short period of time around 3 years ago my mother thought I should pursue something in International Law like a masters and that was a 'big new thing' and doing an exchange semester abroad showed I was interesting/wouldn't be as boring/typical as other people and would have some sort of benefit for my job prospects Even then I intuitively thought: 1. International law doesn't really exist except for a very few people; terrible terrible employment prospects. I wasn't familiar with the concept of international law panda but I at the time I still thought it sounded like "Im a special snowflake" 2. Going on exchange might provide some benefits but as if it really helps over some solid work experience at some sort of office/grades that people trust more. Also; going on exchange if anything just suggests you are keen to party/have fun (read: bad for being a lawyer). Then I came across this thread and was heartened to learn I was correct if not soul crushingly more correct than I could imagine. Lemonus fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Jun 14, 2011 |
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Jun 14, 2011 01:37
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nm posted:gently caress it, I'm applying to guam instead. Are you scared of spiders? Just curious.
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Jun 14, 2011 02:13
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prussian advisor posted:Are you scared of spiders? we don't even have any poisonous ones you babby
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Jun 14, 2011 02:37
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Abugadu posted:we don't even have any poisonous ones you babby Look at this noob. Like he doesn't know that the strongest weapon of the spider isn't its venom, but its ability to instill terror. They're nature's terrorists. Good luck in spider Afghanistan, nm.
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Jun 14, 2011 02:39
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Abugadu posted:we don't even have any poisonous ones you babby Does anyone on the island cook and eat these spiders? Land-lobsters I would call them. Then again I would also call the people of Guam the Guamish.
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Jun 14, 2011 02:54
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nm posted:Huuuuum Don't forget the $140,000 starting pay. Ain't bad for a public defender.
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Jun 14, 2011 02:59
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Just read a resume from some retard who professes an interest in "nutrition law" What the gently caress are they teaching you entitled little shits in law school these days?
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Jun 14, 2011 03:00
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Just read a resume from some retard who professes an interest in "nutrition law" I specialized in daisies and ribbons law myself.
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Jun 14, 2011 04:02
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prussian advisor posted:Are you scared of spiders? I stayed a youth hostel in Australia with a spider the size of my head living above a fridge. I was only going to be scared if it wasn't there. BigHead posted:Don't forget the $140,000 starting pay. Ain't bad for a public defender. CaptainScraps posted:Then again I would also call the people of Guam the Guamish.  Hell I don't even know what to call em: Guambats? The Guamish?; Guamibears? nm fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jun 14, 2011 |
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Jun 14, 2011 05:15
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Just read a resume from some retard who professes an interest in "nutrition law" At my school we have a group called FoodSoc
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Jun 14, 2011 05:18
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Yo to the dude who failed out their first year and wants to go back: boy do I have a new USA lawyer drama for YOU! http://video.usanetwork.com/series/suits/previews_12/great-lawyer/v1331451 Tagline says it all: Without a law degree, can you be a great lawyer?
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Jun 14, 2011 05:20
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Haha, the main character in that has eidetic memory, add that to our list of reasons to go to law school.
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Jun 14, 2011 05:27
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Seems like there'd be so many more fulfilling things to use it on than admin law.
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Jun 14, 2011 05:30
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nm posted:Not really. Our ultimate frisbee team here is the Guambats, and if we bring two teams the second team is the Guammi Bears.
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Jun 14, 2011 05:45
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zzyzx posted:Seems like there'd be so many more fulfilling things to use it on than admin law. He always wanted to be a lawyer
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Jun 14, 2011 12:14
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Got an e-mail from an old law school friend today:quote:Hey man, hope all is well. you have a job, so that has to count for something. haha.. as for me, it looks like I've been relegated to enlisting in the national guard.. It's safe to say that the law degree isn't worth much (well, the economy obviously doesn't help).. but it's frustrating...
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Jun 14, 2011 13:55
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entris posted:Maybe. More facts please. undergrad GPA? LSAT score? Do you have a masters or Ph.D. In chem engi? Are you already in debt from undergrad? Where do you want to live? 2.95 GPA 170 LSAT no debt oklahoma bachelor's only would like to live in Houston
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Jun 14, 2011 19:26
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Based on the opposition we just received, opposing counsel pretty much flipped out that the motion I drafted claimed Twombly applies to the 34 (baseless) affirmative defenses he filed. Even if it doesn't work, my Civ Pro prof would be proud.
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Jun 14, 2011 19:50
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Celot posted:2.95 GPA Since you are interested in patent work, you are going to be doubly hosed by your low undergrad GPA. Here is why you are hosed due to your GPA: 1) You will not get into a top law school with a 2.95 and a 170. Getting into a top law school is the single most important factor in whether or not you get a job that will enable you to pay off your loans after you graduate. And with a 2.95, you are going to have loans. This assumes you retake the LSAT to get a 175+ so that you have an outside shot of getting into a good school. 2) Even if you get into a good school, many patent firms will want to see your undergrad transcript. A 2.95 will cause concern even if your law school credentials are good. This is because as a patent practitioner you are expected to be able to discuss inventions with engineers on their level. Employers use your undergraduate GPA to screen for this ability. I had a similar GPA and was flat out told by my current employer that if I had been applying straight from law school without experience, my resume would have been binned based on my undergrad GPA alone. Also, you are hosed due to your background. Chemical engineering is not a hot field right now as far as patent practice goes. Firms are mostly hiring EEs and computer science majors. Two of my good friends have EXTREMELY strong credentials and chemical engineering backgrounds, and both were out of work for over a year before finding legal jobs. So, in order for law school to be "worth it" in the end, you must do ALL of the following: 1) Retake the LSAT and score a 175+ to offset your undergrad GPA. 2) Get into a top school (let's say T14+). Your 175+ LSAT may be enough to get you in, but you won't be getting much money due to the GPA issue. You will go into debt. 3) Do well enough in law school to convince an employer to look the other way on your undergrad GPA. 4) Hope that demand for chemical engineers picks up between now and when you are applying for 2L summer positions, enabling you to find a job. 5) Hope you do not burn out at your firm gig for long enough so that you can pay off your student loans. You may even like your job like some of us do, but this is a risk. In order to pull this off and land a job that will justify the debt you are taking on, you need for ALL of the above to happen. This is not likely. Potential mitigating factors: 1) You are a URM - this increases your chances of getting into a top school and makes you more desirable to potential employers. 2) You have several years of industry experience - this may mitigate an employer's concerns about your GPA. 3) You have no interest in patents - most non-patent legal employers don't give a gently caress about your undergrad GPA. You will still need to get into a top school, however. 4) A close family member has his/her name on one or more buildings at a T14 law school, and can ensure your admission. 5) A close family member is on the hiring committee/has their own law practice and is willing to give you a job. 6) You or your family are independently wealthy and can afford to take $100k+ and toss it in a trash can, toss in a match, and watch it burn. I suppose you can always retake the LSAT and get the 175+ and go from there. At least this is a low risk proposition, since it will not directly result in 6 figures of debt. However, you will not want a JD from any school that will accept you with a 2.95 and a 170, and you would be foolish to consider taking out loans to get a degree from such a school.
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Jun 14, 2011 19:55
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Well I guess I am hosed. Thanks.
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Jun 14, 2011 20:00
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Celot posted:Well I guess I am hosed. Thanks.
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Jun 14, 2011 20:07
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Could I even get a lovely law job if I went to a worse law school?
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Jun 14, 2011 20:16
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Celot posted:Could I even get a lovely law job if I went to a worse law school? Straight answer - if you move to Texas and obtain residency, you can probably get into UT with your numbers. That's a good way to get into Houston. I know some guy with your numbers in my year working patent law at a big firm come September, but he's an ME not a CE. HOWEVER Everything everyone else said is correct and you probably shouldn't go.
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Jun 14, 2011 20:18
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CaptainScraps posted:Straight answer - you can probably get into UT with your numbers. is that good enough to get a job at all I know these are really basic questions but I know nothing about it
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Jun 14, 2011 20:19
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Celot posted:is that good enough to get a job at all Too speculative based on economy-- I'd be predicting for 3-5 years hence. It's easier to assume no.
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Jun 14, 2011 20:22
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I'll offer a slight qualifier to the above: I have slightly better stats than Celot (3.05/177), applied stupidly late, and got into Texas (T14  ) with a small scholarship. I also got some hefty scholarship offers from the T25 which I should've probably taken in retrospect but Texas wasn't that bad being in-state. Also my degree is in Biology, and while ChemE might not be as "hot" as EE right now, it's still in-demand as gently caress compared to my pissant degree. Despite this I still got a decent enough job at a small firm in Houston.There's no harm in applying really early and seeing what you get. I think you'd have a fair shot at some decent target schools like GWU. Just make sure you come back to this thread for advice on weighing your offers.
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Jun 14, 2011 20:24
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Celot posted:Could I even get a lovely law job if I went to a worse law school? It's not outside the realm of possibility. I somehow blundered into a solid job with mediocre credentials (top third of my law school class, lovely undergrad GPA) from a school near the bottom of T2. Just recognize that the odds are stacked against you, and that at this point in your career, getting into a top law school is everything. Like Elotana said, might as well apply and see where you get in and what kind of money you get offered. Just remember that the lower the law school is ranked, the more of a gamble you are taking in attending. Anecdotally, two of the smartest guys I know (each of whom were either at or near the top of their law school class at T2 law schools - one of them graduated with over a 4.0) have B.S. degrees in chemical engineering and patent registration numbers. Both spent a significant amount of time unemployed (1 year+) after graduation. Obviously your circumstances are a bit different, and maybe I just have unlucky friends, but getting into a T14 law school is a must, because you're taking a significant gamble at a lower ranked school. NJ Deac fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jun 14, 2011 |
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Jun 14, 2011 21:03
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NJ Deac posted:Also, you are hosed due to your background. Chemical engineering is not a hot field right now as far as patent practice goes. Firms are mostly hiring EEs and computer science majors. Two of my good friends have EXTREMELY strong credentials and chemical engineering backgrounds, and both were out of work for over a year before finding legal jobs.
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Jun 14, 2011 21:36
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Also just to reiterate: apply really early. It's very important for splitters. Ideally you want your applications to be complete by the early decision deadline (don't actually check the early decision box unless it's non-binding). This means round up letters and transcripts now now now. Are the strikeouts on your undergrad transcript engineering classes or bullshit electives? If you can point to a more solid major GPA that will help you. I doubt employers care about your D in Crit Lit Bullshit since undergrad writing is totally different from drafting patent claims. Your "reach" schools should be Texas, G'town, and either Duke or Northwestern (if you have work experience). UT would be best for Houston but you'd probably pay full price and that's iffy. Your "safety" schools should be Baylor/UH and maybe OU. Don't actually attend these without a job guarantee from a family member or a 66% or more discount on sticker price. For "target" schools, pepper the middle of the T1, especially any schools known for good IP programs (GWU), or for being LSAT whores (WUSTL). Wheel and deal for scholarships. Elotana fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jun 14, 2011 |
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Jun 14, 2011 21:48
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sigmachiev posted:Yo to the dude who failed out their first year and wants to go back: boy do I have a new USA lawyer drama for YOU! Ah the land of make believe, no way this violates any sort of ethics rules. Course they didn't show him in the court room so I am guessing he is some sort of glorified paralegal. I love how this guy is pleading for help for this person to what looks like a partner, I can tell you the two word response of a partner and one of those words is off.
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Jun 14, 2011 22:14
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gvibes posted:I'm assuming Houston is better than the rest of the country for chemeng work, but maybe I'm wrong. This very well may be true - to the best of my knowledge my friends were primarily striking out in the greater NYC/Philadelphia/DC metro areas.
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Jun 14, 2011 23:30
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Scooter_McCabe posted:Ah the land of make believe, no way this violates any sort of ethics rules. Course they didn't show him in the court room so I am guessing he is some sort of glorified paralegal. I love how this guy is pleading for help for this person to what looks like a partner, I can tell you the two word response of a partner and one of those words is off. Do you have an autistic spectrum disorder?
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Jun 14, 2011 23:50
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Scooter_McCabe posted:Ah the land of make believe, no way this violates any sort of ethics rules. Course they didn't show him in the court room so I am guessing he is some sort of glorified paralegal. I love how this guy is pleading for help for this person to what looks like a partner, I can tell you the two word response of a partner and one of those words is off.
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Jun 15, 2011 00:11
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Hell to the yes with grades and rank.Phil Moscowitz posted:Just read a resume from some retard who professes an interest in "nutrition law"
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Jun 15, 2011 00:16
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