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Jork Juggler posted:Motor Trend had a race driver take a new Boss 302 for a few laps at Laguna Seca. It did a 1:40.2. For comparison, a '10 GT500 clocked 1:44.3, a '09 BMW M3 did 1:42.9, and a '10 Audi R8 did 1:40.8. I think Ford has perfected the live axle if their 4-passenger $41k car beats a mid-engined near-supercar around Laguna Seca. Holy crap. I stand quite solidly corrected. I just haven't been keeping up with that kind of thing in the last several years. I though they squeezed all they could squeeze out of the live axle at that point. I guess I was quite wrong.
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# ? Jun 9, 2011 13:55 |
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# ? May 16, 2024 18:58 |
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dissss posted:Leaving Porsche aside I'd say the similarities between Volkswagen and Audi products are pretty widely known and in some cases actually overstated. To someone who's really up-to-date with cars, yes the similarities are obvious, but the average new Audi buyer is probably more up to date with the latest news in sunglasses than cars.
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# ? Jun 9, 2011 15:48 |
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Trip report: 2011 Kia Optima Pros: - This is a really nice looking car. In profile it looks like it should cost about $10k more. The rear end is really well done. The front, well, it looks like other ias with the gaping grill. One nice touch is the top of the windshield has a small kink in it that matches the front grill. - Decent power. I didn't have any problem with a lack of power from the 2.4L four. Granted it's not what I would call quick but it's certainly sufficient for most people. - Very large inside. Cons: - The car drove a lot like the Forte. Steering was fairly numb and it felt jittery. I'd say it drives like a car $5k cheaper (The car was $23k as optioned) - The driver's seat at least was not very comfortable. I wouldn't want to spend an entire day in it. My back is a bit sore from the hour long commute I have. - The six-speed transmission isn't very refined and it didn't really communicate all that well with the engine in determining a good gear to be in. All in all it was a pretty decent car. I can see why people would buy it. Driving dynamics-wise, it's not nearly as good as some of the other cars out there, but being a Kia I thought it would be worse. It really does look a lot more expensive than it is. It's a shame the neighbors will see the Kia badge and assume it cost half of what you paid, though. At least in my experience people associate Kia with cheap economy cars, and I wouldn't really call this car a cheap economy car. More like a cheap economy car in a big expensive car's body, if that makes sense. If it stops raining I'll post some pictures.
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# ? Jun 9, 2011 16:05 |
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I found this today! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/308542211/lubricheck-the-digital-blood-tester-for-your-car Looks fun. Shame I didn't get a chance to back it.
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# ? Jun 9, 2011 23:23 |
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Jork Juggler posted:Motor Trend had a race driver take a new Boss 302 for a few laps at Laguna Seca. It did a 1:40.2. For comparison, a '10 GT500 clocked 1:44.3, a '09 BMW M3 did 1:42.9, and a '10 Audi R8 did 1:40.8. I think Ford has perfected the live axle if their 4-passenger $41k car beats a mid-engined near-supercar around Laguna Seca.
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# ? Jun 9, 2011 23:41 |
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grover posted:What type tires and what skill level drivers of those cars? From what I can remember of the article it was a professional driver, but I can't remember if they tried to match the tires between the two. Their main point seemed to be that you could have the track performance of an M3 for half the cost.
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 01:18 |
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CornHolio posted:Trip report: 2011 Kia Optima I personally have been really shocked that Kia has stepped it up. When we were searching for our new SUV we did drive a Kia Sportage with the 2.0 turbo charged 4 cylinder. I admit it, it was kinda fun to drive. Really great bang for the buck for an SUV. When we looked at the Hyundai Santa Fe, I did ask to drive the Genesis Coupe. That could really give the Ze Germans a run for the money, if they did some suspension work, and a little work on the gear box (it was an auto, the only one on the lot with a 3.8). The manual could prove to be fun, and if they slot the V8 in the front, it would be a great all around car for not much money.
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 01:33 |
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dissss posted:Leaving Porsche aside I'd say the similarities between Volkswagen and Audi products are pretty widely known and in some cases actually overstated. I think you're seriously overestimating the general knowledge of the American car buyer (not surprising, I suspect you're European since you mentioned Skoda and the Polo). Most Americans don't understand the relationship between Acura/Honda, Infiniti/Nissan, Lexus/Toyota for one, and the only reason they know the link between the GM brands and Ford/Lincoln is that GM insists on putting those stupid badges on all of their cars, and they both sell the different nameplates at the same dealerships.
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 01:51 |
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SwashedBuckles posted:From what I can remember of the article it was a professional driver, but I can't remember if they tried to match the tires between the two. Their main point seemed to be that you could have the track performance of an M3 for half the cost. I don't think there's any question the Mustang will be more bang for the buck, but without knowing more, it's still tough to say which bang is bigger. grover fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Jun 10, 2011 |
# ? Jun 10, 2011 02:01 |
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grover posted:It's tough to compare lap times without knowing more. The Boss 302 was almost certainly driven by a professional driver for Motor Trend, and quite likely on r-comps and track prepped. For all we know, the R8 time was the owner taking it for a spin on street tires at door-jamb pressures and street alignment. Or do we know more about that run? Yeah, if the R8 were 5 seconds faster, it would totally poo poo on the theory that Ford still knows how to set up the live axle.
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 02:08 |
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The Boss 302 was running Pirelli PZeros, and during the 1:40.2 lap it was being driven by 2010 Rolex 24hrs Daytona GT class winner Jonathan Bomarito. The M3 and Audi R8 lap times were set by professional drivers as well, but they didn't specify whom. "With a professional racing driver behind the wheel, the 2009 BMW M3 that competed in our 2008 Best Handling competition clocked a 1:42.9. In our 2009 Best Driver's Car competition the 2010 Shelby GT500 lapped in 1:44.3 while a 2010 Audi R8 did it in 1:40.8." The Boss 302 Laguna Seca edition was running r-comp tires and set an even faster lap time.
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 03:36 |
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I swear, i'm starting to like bench racing more than real racing. The boss 302 was on the stock pirelli pzero The audi r8 was also on stock pirelli pzero the BMW m3 was michelin pilot sport PS2s, but had a 7 speed auto and steel roof/sunroof Both the audi r8 and M3 were driven by randy pobst, another winning professional race driver. The same randy pobst who pushed a GT500 past a zr1 on streets of willow springs
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# ? Jun 10, 2011 05:22 |
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Holy poo poo, rotary lovers! To be honest this isn't actually a car, but you, yes, YOU could have a little baby-sized rotary engine chargin' your gadgets! http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/06/tiny-rotary-engines-could-power-gadgets-with-gasoline/
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# ? Jun 13, 2011 20:17 |
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That is just simply awesome. I home it gets cheap enough to use as a portable generator. In other news: Reuters posted:Porsche Reveals More Details About the All-Electric Boxster E
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# ? Jun 15, 2011 10:44 |
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grover posted:That is just simply awesome. I home it gets cheap enough to use as a portable generator. Porsche needs to drop the Boxster with it’s wannabe-911 image and revive a classic like the 356 or 914 as a small-ish electric car with a radically different design. In any case, it sounds like its going to be a pretty nice city car. I’m envisioning the Active Sound Design tuners of the future, where ricers take the sound unit out of the latest V12-immitating Ferrari EV, turn up the volume to 11 and put it in their Prius.
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# ? Jun 15, 2011 10:58 |
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New M5 is official now, full press release with more pictures available here: http://www.autoblog.com/2011/06/15/bmw-opens-the-floodgates-on-2012-m5/ 4.4L twin scroll twin turbo V8, 560 hp, DCT. But really, just look at this diagram. Look at it.
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# ? Jun 15, 2011 18:59 |
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eames posted:Look at that torque I want one, right loving now.
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# ? Jun 15, 2011 21:25 |
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I guess the torque is limited to save the transmission?
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# ? Jun 15, 2011 21:45 |
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sanchez posted:I guess the torque is limited to save the transmission? It's probably more just BMW makes weird dyno charts.
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# ? Jun 15, 2011 21:56 |
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KozmoNaut posted:No poo poo...This really makes me wonder how powerful cars are going to get before energy costs/regulations or the recession make these kinds of cars impossible to sell. There is no doubt in my mind that Dinan will make an 800 ft./lb tune for that beast.
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# ? Jun 16, 2011 01:46 |
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Lowclock posted:It's probably more just BMW makes weird dyno charts. It's more about modern turbo engines. Here's what ford released for the taurus SHO ecoobost
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# ? Jun 16, 2011 05:25 |
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I'm impressed by the power to weight, going by the figures the new M5 weighs in 200lbs lighter than the outgoing!sanchez posted:I guess the torque is limited to save the transmission? It's also done for driveability. When you have two tiny turbos it's really easy to get them to spool very early and use wastegate actuation to maintain a constant torque curve and provide extremely linear power instead of the peakiness experienced with earlier turbos and NA cars. Muffinpox fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jun 17, 2011 |
# ? Jun 16, 2011 05:36 |
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Fayez Butts posted:Holy poo poo, rotary lovers! To be honest this isn't actually a car, but you, yes, YOU could have a little baby-sized rotary engine chargin' your gadgets! It's a real-life version of this Nissan Leaf ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0sCCJFkEbE&feature=player_embedded Interesting idea for camping or something, but a fuel cell is probably a better idea.
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# ? Jun 16, 2011 09:27 |
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Those ultra flat torque curves mean show two things. First that modern variable nozzle turbos, electronic wastegates, and direct injection enable automakers to really fine tune the output of their engines. Second that they left peak torque and corresponding midrange power on the table.
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# ? Jun 16, 2011 13:22 |
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What is different about the BMW engine that it continues to produce near-peak power once torque falls off? Is it just producing more torque, as if the torque dive is shallower? If so, what makes this possible?
Tan Dumplord fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Jun 16, 2011 |
# ? Jun 16, 2011 14:12 |
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Cream_Filling posted:Who knows? Maybe by 2015 or whatever, this will be the start of a new roadster fad and even Hyundai and Kia will put out affordable Solstice/Sky cousins at 20k or under. Surprised it hasn't been posted yet: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/265831/kias_mx5_rival_revealed.html
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# ? Jun 16, 2011 14:33 |
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That's a really, blatantly obvious photoshop of a Pontiac Solstice. And not even a good one at that. I do wonder what an actual Kia roadster will look like
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# ? Jun 16, 2011 15:08 |
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Q_res posted:That's a really, blatantly obvious photoshop of a Pontiac Solstice. And not even a good one at that. I do wonder what an actual Kia roadster will look like .....I think that's the point
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# ? Jun 16, 2011 18:40 |
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I was making more of a comment on them having the gall to publish it in a "newsstory". A Kia roadster almost certainly won't look even remotely like that. So what's the point of including it? In other words, internet "journalism" is pathetic
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# ? Jun 16, 2011 19:09 |
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Particularly as the only evidence they seem to have is a quote that "we would like to have something like the MX-5 in the future." "Like to" not "we have something in the pipeline". I mean how do you take these quotes quote:Bosses are calling it Kia’s MX-5. The fast-expanding company has earmarked a roadster in its future plans as it works to position itself as a “dynamic, sporting, fun brand” – and our images show what the car could look like. This is pure 100% bullshit and it's bad even by the standards of internet or auto "journalism". OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jun 16, 2011 |
# ? Jun 16, 2011 20:29 |
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eames posted:Porsche needs to drop the Boxster with it’s wannabe-911 image and revive a classic like the 356 or 914 as a small-ish electric car with a radically different design. Isn't that the plan for the Porsche version of the Bluemotion?
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# ? Jun 16, 2011 23:45 |
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My whole point about those dyno graphs was that they're really really basic (and pretty much incorrect) fits of the real data which I guess would look impressive to someone who doesn't know what a dyno is. Here's an actual SHO dyno sheet. Real (blue is stock with CAI, red is tuned) vs. Whatever this is supposed to be I'm sure that BMW one is doing the same thing. E: VVV Probably so they can use cheaper parts that are common with their other vehicles instead of having to make some stronger parts that would only be used on a fraction of their cars. ee: Throatwarbler posted:How is either of those incorrect? The information is more or less identical on both. Lowclock fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Jun 17, 2011 |
# ? Jun 17, 2011 00:00 |
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I'm still confused as to why these makers would be peak-shaving the torque curve to artificially limit power. Wouldn't MORE TORQUE be even better than an artificially low-but-flat torque curve?
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# ? Jun 17, 2011 00:04 |
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Lowclock posted:My whole point about those dyno graphs was that they're really really basic (and pretty much incorrect) fits of the real data which I guess would look impressive to someone who doesn't know what a dyno is. Here's an actual SHO dyno sheet. How is either of those incorrect? The information is more or less identical on both.
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# ? Jun 17, 2011 00:15 |
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The east and west coasts of America are both at sea level, therefore the entire country is perfectly flat and level.
InitialDave fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Jun 17, 2011 |
# ? Jun 17, 2011 00:23 |
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grover posted:I'm still confused as to why these makers would be peak-shaving the torque curve to artificially limit power. Wouldn't MORE TORQUE be even better than an artificially low-but-flat torque curve? Usually it's either an issue of drivetrain preservation, or drivability
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# ? Jun 17, 2011 00:59 |
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Lowclock posted:Here's an actual SHO dyno sheet. That's a really unfortunate curve.
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# ? Jun 17, 2011 08:42 |
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grover posted:I'm still confused as to why these makers would be peak-shaving the torque curve to artificially limit power. Wouldn't MORE TORQUE be even better than an artificially low-but-flat torque curve? 1) Not if you pick up the tab when it breaks 2) it depends on the compressor map. If 10psi@1500-6000 rpm lands you in the 95% compressor efficiency range for the whole band, bumping it up to 15psi for part of it but going into the 80% efficiency range would be a diminishing return in terms of output. For those returns you get substantially more heat produced and higher compressor speeds, which reduce turbo life. Since you have to replace these systems when poo poo break, it behooves you to artificially limit power the max amount of power for longevity. Also, the large flat torque curve is largely a function of variable valve timing, which might be an extremely agressive profile for the whole range, but without it the car would have the normal hump torque profile. Lowclock posted:My whole point about those dyno graphs was that they're really really basic (and pretty much incorrect) fits of the real data which I guess would look impressive to someone who doesn't know what a dyno is. They're just smoothed curves which fit the torque profile, it's not exact but pretty close. That SHO looks like it's pulling timing or retarding boost because I've seen another one where the torque curve stays going much later. Muffinpox fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Jun 17, 2011 |
# ? Jun 17, 2011 14:03 |
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The new Alfa derived Dodge Caliber is almost done.
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# ? Jun 27, 2011 02:24 |
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# ? May 16, 2024 18:58 |
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That might actually be attractive.
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# ? Jun 27, 2011 08:17 |