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Aliginge posted:They emailed back today, no dice for me I'm afraid. Sorry to hear that Aliginge, did you ask for feedback? I have the phone interview tomorrow morning for the AP position but I don't feel too confident. I'm just brushing up on some Agile (Scrum) knowledge in work as we speak. Andio fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Jun 16, 2011 |
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Jun 16, 2011 23:40
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I needn't ask, most of the interview was critiquing my work.  Ah well, wasn't a wasted experience. What was particularly useful was knowing more about what they want to see in a folio and what they don't. (Full environments and photoreal basically)
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Jun 16, 2011 23:52
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Aliginge posted:I needn't ask, most of the interview was critiquing my work. Was Adam Askew there by any chance? He's the guy I will be speaking to tomorrow. Do you have any industry experience?
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Jun 16, 2011 23:57
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Not to my knowledge no. I spoke to two environment art guys. And no, no industry experience yet. Best of luck brah 
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Jun 17, 2011 00:51
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isk posted:A lead producer was recounting an interview with the production assistant he ended up hiring. The PA had been in the military previously, primarily with logistics and procurement, telling one story where he had to move an entire base hundreds of miles in a short timeframe. This impressed the hell out of the lead, not just with the subject matter but with the delivery as well - calm, confident, and charismatic. Part of my problem is that I'm a recent grad. I've got a lot of experience leading student projects and working in student organizations, but no real work experience. I don't know if companies even count stuff like that, but at least I have a lot of experience with software development, so I'm hoping that that will get me an entry level job.
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Jun 17, 2011 02:06
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Space Opera posted:Part of my problem is that I'm a recent grad. I've got a lot of experience leading student projects and working in student organizations, but no real work experience. I don't know if companies even count stuff like that, but at least I have a lot of experience with software development, so I'm hoping that that will get me an entry level job. Thus, breaking into production requires either moving over from another discipline, or a lot of luck / knowing someone, or finding a really, really big studio willing to bring on no-experience PA's and train them up (ie. you might have luck at Zynga given the rate at which they're hiring). Shalinor fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Jun 17, 2011 |
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Jun 17, 2011 05:15
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Aliginge posted:I needn't ask, most of the interview was critiquing my work. I kind of feel like that's a little harsh for a guy with literally no industry experience. You have to take a punt on people and see what you think they're capable of. I'm sure they know what they're looking for but in my opinion it's a big ask to expect finished environments from someone who hasn't worked at a studio before.
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Jun 17, 2011 09:09
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Just got my first freelance gig. As soon as I picked the first one up another person contacted me about freelance. WOOHOO!
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Jun 17, 2011 09:11
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ceebee posted:Just got my first freelance gig. As soon as I picked the first one up another person contacted me about freelance. WOOHOO! Congrats dude!
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Jun 17, 2011 09:31
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In the OP it says for programmers to focus on their core math skills. Can someone elaborate more on this?
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Jun 17, 2011 10:01
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concerned mom posted:I kind of feel like that's a little harsh for a guy with literally no industry experience. You have to take a punt on people and see what you think they're capable of. I'm sure they know what they're looking for but in my opinion it's a big ask to expect finished environments from someone who hasn't worked at a studio before. I had three complete environments when I graduated college (one being a group project for a history museum), and a wip freelance environment that was good enough to show when I was looking for jobs. I also worked my rear end off and didn't do anything else and saved up enough money and lived frugally the last quarter of classes so I could quit my lovely job. There aren't excuses. 
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Jun 17, 2011 10:39
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I think that's a good point and you did really well to get to that standard whilst still in college. I just feel like college is there to give you a decent across-the-board grounding in art and we all did weird stuff there that we'd never do now and modelled things we don't anymore but it would be a shame not to have done them. I guess it boils down to getting a job at the end of the day. I just personally don't think employers should look for a rounded-product in someone who possibly hasn't found themselves yet. It's a pretty tough industry to get in to but I do feel that the people who I admire the most in it are the people that have experimented and tried lots of different things. It's a tough argument to make and you could just say "well fine but I'm not going to give them a job over someone who can clearly demonstrate they can do what I'm looking for" and you'd be right so I unno.
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Jun 17, 2011 11:14
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I guess that depends largely on the state of the studio. Here, we have a history of taking on people that aren't always fully baked and carrying them until they are, because it's an investment in people sort of thing that we like to do. But lately, we've fallen into the position where that's maybe not possible so we're not cutting people as much slack. Aliginge's interview was with Playground Games, who've been operating for two(?) years with no(?) products on shelves. Maybe they simply don't feel like they're in the position to take anybody on that can't hit the ground running because of experience or whatever. Edit: Double negative where I wanted a single negative doi. Akuma fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Jun 17, 2011 |
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Jun 17, 2011 11:21
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Yeah sorry I really don't want to pick out Playground Games at all, I guess I just like to give people a good break because I know I needed it a few years ago!
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Jun 17, 2011 11:26
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Watch me potentially insult the thread's artists! Just like I tell people who want to get into design to get a degree from a liberal arts school (albeit hopefully one in CS!) and programmers to do the same, and avoid "game degrees", in general, artists that go to traditional art schools (RISD, MICA, Pratt, etc) are far better long-term hires than people who are "game artists". The best artists I've ever worked with graduated college having barely used Photoshop and never Maya/Max. Their portfolios consist of paintings, illustration, and so on. They take way longer to ramp-up, but you can teach someone tools, but you can't teach them about light, composition, color, form, and so on. (Not to mention art school crits are more brutal than anything they'll ever face in their professional careers.)
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Jun 17, 2011 11:29
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devilmouse posted:Watch me potentially insult the thread's artists! Are you talking about hiring a 3d artist to a studio with no 3d art background?
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Jun 17, 2011 11:45
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Alterian posted:Are you talking about hiring a 3d artist to a studio with no 3d art background? Yup! For junior / intern spots, they're the investments that pay off. edit: concerned mom posted:I half agree with you devilmouse. I think they should definitely have a good understanding of 3d though otherwise it would be insane trying to train someone up. What if they decide they don't like it? You run that risk with any hire though. Sure the ramp-up investment of a few weeks of a mentor's time sucks to lose, but I've seen people from every discipline quit within a few months time for any number of reasons. I don't want to get into a debate of 3D vs not, but if you asked them, they'd say it was just another medium akin to oils vs watercolors (just like a programmer has different languages they work in). Granted, this is a very long view that I take. If you need someone to slot into a production artist slot NOW to bang out some decor or an environment artist to push into your level creation pipeline, this isn't the way to go at all. I'm just talking about people who come out of school and where they "top out". The art directors / leads have almost universally in my experience gone to rigorous traditional art programs. devilmouse fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Jun 17, 2011 |
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Jun 17, 2011 11:48
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I half agree with you devilmouse. I think they should definitely have a good understanding of 3d though otherwise it would be insane trying to train someone up. What if they decide they don't like it? Some investment! And you have to pay the person training them up to do just that. However I do agree that a fundamental understanding of art is invaluable.
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Jun 17, 2011 11:50
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devilmouse posted:Watch me potentially insult the thread's artists!
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Jun 17, 2011 13:49
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I can't remember if I posted this or not but I would like to learn to model. Where do I begin? What programs should I be looking at? Please approach these questions as if I were an idiot (I am).
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Jun 17, 2011 14:03
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Find some software. If you are a student you can get autodesk software for free it you sign up at students.autodesk with a .edu email. For beginners I recommend 3d Studio Max. You can also try the newest version of blender, it's free and open source. People might hate on it, but I love it. You can then start doing some tutorials. Search vimeo and youtube. You can also visit cgtuts. If you use blender you can go to blendercookie.
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Jun 17, 2011 14:13
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Monster w21 Faces posted:I can't remember if I posted this or not but I would like to learn to model. Where do I begin? What programs should I be looking at? Blender is free and a pretty good program. You should also be pretty good with photoshop. There's lots of forums and tutorials out there. BlenderCookie has some good stuff. I taught intro to 3d modeling using blender at a high school this past spring with students who weren't artistic and had never touched a 3d program before so I can recommend it. This is the textbook I used http://www.amazon.com/Blender-Foundations-Essential-Guide-Learning/dp/0240814304/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1308316411&sr=8-3 It wasn't too bad for a blender book, but if I were you, I'd mess around with tutorials and see how far that gets you. All of that is 100% free! Edit: Beaten by my husband 
Alterian fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Jun 17, 2011 |
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Jun 17, 2011 14:14
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I am pretty good with photoshop and I have art and design qualifications but I was under the impression that you needed to 'sketch up' models in max or maya before you started working in blender. If you're saying that's not the case then I'll check out that book. Cheers.
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Jun 17, 2011 14:16
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Monster w21 Faces posted:I can't remember if I posted this or not but I would like to learn to model. Where do I begin? What programs should I be looking at? -3dsmax -Maya -Softimage XSi Choose one. Max and Maya are both very popular, with Softimage trailing behind a little bit. You'll come across people who claim to be Max Guys or Maya People, as transitioning between programs is hard once you've learned how to model in one. Chose one? Cool, now download the Tutorial files and tutorial sample scenes from the Autodesk website for your program and go through them one by one. Once you've done those, start looking further afield for your tutorials. That'd be my advice EDIT: Just reinstalled max 2011 oh my GOD it's so nice seeing a familiar UI and no retarded default settings ala Max 2012. ;_;
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Jun 17, 2011 14:18
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Monster w21 Faces posted:I am pretty good with photoshop and I have art and design qualifications but I was under the impression that you needed to 'sketch up' models in max or maya before you started working in blender.
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Jun 17, 2011 14:19
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No blender is a fully functional 3d software package. It even has features that I like better than some of the big boys like Max and Maya. These were both made completely in blender: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSGBVzeBUbk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRsGyueVLvQ
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Jun 17, 2011 14:19
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Monster w21 Faces posted:I am pretty good with photoshop and I have art and design qualifications but I was under the impression that you needed to 'sketch up' models in max or maya before you started working in blender. No. Blender does it all. Blender use to be kinda sucky, but the new Blender 2.5x is comparable to other 3d modeling packages. You can even do zbrush/mudbox type stuff in it.
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Jun 17, 2011 14:20
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devilmouse posted:I don't want to get into a debate of 3D vs not, but if you asked them, they'd say it was just another medium akin to oils vs watercolors (just like a programmer has different languages they work in). This is the key to your point, and it is valid whether the person has 3D in their portfolio or not. In my opinion, the real question is not "is this person classically trained or are they 3d only" but "does this person have an eye for design/color/lighting/shape language/style/etc instead of mere know-how in a program". I think it is perfectly legitimate to expect finished environments in an environment portfolio, experienced or otherwise, and it's kind of weird to me that people would think otherwise. Take this guy for example: http://www.brameulaers.com/ Remove his Bionic Commando work and he still has about 5 fully-fleshed out environments that he's done presumably just because.
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Jun 17, 2011 15:54
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I have a indie developer friend who would like to get in contact with GameSpot about reviewing one of his DSiWare titles. Has anybody here dealt with them before/know how to get that rolling?
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Jun 17, 2011 16:56
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Hiring artists with classical backgrounds was something that happened more often when the industry was younger and there were very few people with skills in the relevant areas. It's probably still a good bet today.
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Jun 17, 2011 18:06
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I had the phone interview today and it went really well. I don't expect a call back as he mentioned there are plenty of experienced Producers applying. It was something I enjoyed and feel privileged to have been given the opportunity to speak to them.
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Jun 17, 2011 18:37
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Classical training is a great benefit to any artist, although it isn't required. I'm self-taught 3d and have a business degree, and I would love to have more classical training. A lot of the classical skills that I have (understanding materials, observation and analysis, notions of form and color theory, etc) I learned bass-ackwards. The problem with 3d-centric programs is that a lot of them skimp on the fundamentals, and if you spend all your time in college just learning software and not learning any of the fundamentals you will get hosed. Even when you're photo-reffing an authentic M16, all of those fundamental skills come into play, from color theory (I think it actually becomes more important when you're working with something that is a 'fixed' color in the real world) to understanding form, and especially observation. Most of my observation skills come from a lot of long walks on campus with my rendering programmer friend. Learning to observe how light interacts with colors, forms, materials, and then moving on to understand the construction of objects, shapes, wear and marking and damage, etc, is a really difficult to learn skill unless someone is walking you through it. Monster - most people have suggested the things I would already, although I will say get involved in forums asap. Always be making something. Reading and watching tutorials makes you really good at reading and watching tutorials - you will learn faster and 'better' if you constantly work on something new and discover the problem areas on your own, so you can research them. A tutorial that dodges the pitfalls doesn't teach you where not to step, it teaches you to follow a line and when you steer away from it you will inevitably stick your foot in a hole. I would avoid open source software just because there are more tutorials and better documentation for the commercial software. 3ds Max or Maya (I prefer Max, Maya is better for animation but not for poly modeling, and Max has a better tool in Render to Texture than Maya does Project Surface), read the documentation, work through the intro tutorials so you aren't stumbling over rotating poo poo, etc. Read as many tutorials/watch as many as you can. Just don't think that lets you advance ahead on the "work out the bad" track. You're going to have to make a lot of poo poo work before you make anything good, and there isn't any shortcutting that. Pick someone who you really admire as a 3d artist and observe their work and try to emulate and learn from that - you'll get a lot farther than comparing yourself to scrubs. Aliginge posted:Max and Maya are both very popular, with Softimage trailing behind a little bit. You'll come across people who claim to be Max Guys or Maya People, as transitioning between programs is hard once you've learned how to model in one. I disagree - the transition is fairly easy, so long as you know enough about what you're doing in Max/Maya to understand the concepts - if your understanding of the workflow is 'I push this specific button and it makes Art' then you're going to have a hard time, but if you understand the higher concepts they're pretty easy. Don't get me wrong, it'll take a couple of weeks to get up to 90-95% efficiency in the new program, but that's something that jobs will allow for (and its easier in a workpalce where you can turn around and ask Ben 'whats the button to bridge two open edges together with a new polygon?') and that's realistically not that long of a time. Sigma-X fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jun 17, 2011 |
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Jun 17, 2011 20:03
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Sigma-X posted:To add to this, I would also say don't look for criticism on Deviantart or other ''artsy'' social boards. The spectrum of criticism is simply off the wall (From what i've seen at least).
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Jun 17, 2011 20:15
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Odddzy posted:To add to this, I would also say don't look for criticism on Deviantart or other ''artsy'' social boards. The spectrum of criticism is simply off the wall (From what i've seen at least). Yeah, polycount, gameartisans, threedy, cgtalk - these are all good sites. Deviantart is the worst. You want forums, not 'portfolio' sites. Also if you're learning 3ds Max and have questions feel free to IM me - this actually applies to anyone in this thread: SigmaX01 A lot of stuff when you're learning is a lot easier if you can just harass someone for an answer. Sigma-X fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jun 17, 2011 |
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Jun 17, 2011 20:40
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Sigma-X posted:Most of my observation skills come from a lot of long walks on campus with my rendering programmer friend. Learning to observe how light interacts with colors, forms, materials, and then moving on to understand the construction of objects, shapes, wear and marking and damage, etc, is a really difficult to learn skill unless someone is walking you through it. If you're not stepping to the other side of little dividers so that you can look particularly closely at a bush in a pedestrian mall that's lit in a funny way, seeing how the shadow is cast from it onto your hand, laying on the grass under it so that you can get a better angle on how the light works through the layers of leaves, etc - you should be. Exploring the world around you is what will inform an instinctual approach to making things look awesome, unique or realistic as necessary. You should also be staring at your hands and wiggling your fingers to get a sense for how the skin warps around the bones as you flex, getting a sense of how fabrics feel and how that feel translates into how they're lit / how the light scatters. That's how you get better with surface modelling and animation systems. AI programmers should similarly pay attention to how people walk in groups, and how those groups interact. Physics programmers should be fascinated by how things move. Etc. You should be informing your approach to simulation with real-world experience, NOT just with books and equations that approximate something you've never looked closely at yourself. (which means, amongst other things, if you ever find yourself modelling a gun or simulating its use, for pete's sake, go find a firing range and at least SHOOT A GUN already, consider playing a bit of paintball or laser tag, something, anything - the number of artists and programmers on combat systems that have never tried anything related boggles the mind...) ... and apparently this is how artists get it too, so yay artists, do this too I guess. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Jun 17, 2011 |
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Jun 17, 2011 20:46
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Sigma-X posted:walking around campus I hope you didn't get your sense of color and texture from walking around!
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Jun 17, 2011 20:55
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Irish Taxi Driver posted:Got an email today from Raven about a design internship they want me to interview for! Hooray!
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Jun 17, 2011 21:01
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Alterian posted:I hope you didn't get your sense of color and texture from walking around! I don't know what you're implying I should have done instead but like I said, I don't have a college level formal art background, most of my fundamentals come from high school and from self learning. This is why I think a college program that stresses these is valuable - I didn't have it
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Jun 17, 2011 21:12
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Is it best practice to send a follow-up email after an interview? If so, does anyone have any examples of what should be in the email (Associate Producer role)?
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Jun 17, 2011 21:46
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Andio posted:Is it best practice to send a follow-up email after an interview? If so, does anyone have any examples of what should be in the email (Associate Producer role)? Absolutely yes. Always send a thank you note after an interview. Just thank them for their time and tell them how much you enjoyed talking to them and how excited you are about their company. If possible send it to the lead person you actually interviewed with, but if you don't have their information send the letter to the HR rep you've been working with and ask them to pass it on for you while ALSO thanking the HR rep. It is never going to hurt your chances to send a thank you letter and as an example there is one job that I edged out some more qualified people for simply because I was the only person to bother sending a thank you. So thank you letters - they are awesome!
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