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So, did I miss something, or did Shadow Line have precisely one character (Bede) who you could spend more than one rather short sentence describing without having to mention his job and/or function to the plot? This is my issue with the show. Looks gorgeous, great cast, a plot with twists and turns in all the right places...but why should I care about any of the people in it? Why are they doing what they're doing? What's driving them? How do they feel about what's happening to them? Now with Bede, we get all of this. He's the decent man in a dodgy business, he likes everything to go smoothly, he's got a brain on him, he treats his partners with respect and keeps out of the limelight, he doesn't want to get in deep, he just wants to make his money back and provide for his family, then get out. Of course he has to take the lead, but he motivates himself to solve the problems and still plans his early getaway, but ironically he sets everything up so neatly that it's trivial for his less-scrupulous associate to remove him entirely from the picture and take over. Does he even care by the end? His wife means so much to him that it probably isn't an exaggeration to say he's already lost it all, and his betrayal merely serves as the full stop at the end of a finished sentence. We could go on for ages talking about him; but he's the only guy I feel I could hold that kind of a conversation about. The perfect examples are the two sidekicks; there's Jay Wratten, and then that chick who follows Gabriel around but I had to look it up on Wikipedia to find out her name is apparently Lia Honey. All right, Rafe Spall has real charisma and he plays the role really well and I'm looking forward to his scenes in every episode; but what does Wratten actually do? He either trails around after Bede, or he goes to frighten people with his screw-loose manner, and then he takes over at the end. Why does he do any of that? He's clearly a few sandwiches short of a picnic - why is that? What's motivating him to do the things he does? Why does he feel unable to trust Bede? How can he be sure that his underlings will follow a nutter? Has he even thought about that? And Lia Honey does even less; she just follows Gabriel about the place and gives him someone to talk to. She ineffectually tails someone and has a nicely-choreographed fight, and then it turns out in the final episode that somehow she's a skilled sharpshooter, and then she shoots Gabriel. Why the hell would she want to do that? Absolutely no clue. Look at most other characters, and you end up in the same place; they're people who do things because the plot demands that they do them.
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Jun 17, 2011 01:53
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Lurchibles posted:Mock the Week was hilarious again. My box missed out on the last 2 minutes though, what was the name of that female comic? She seemed rather strange Really? I thought it was pretty poo poo, it really needs to be put to bed. So many of the jokes are now really obvious ones, and now that the comedians in it are all mostly famous we've heard their routines a thousand times.
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Jun 17, 2011 03:03
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Taear posted:Really? I thought it was pretty poo poo, it really needs to be put to bed. So many of the jokes are now really obvious ones, and now that the comedians in it are all mostly famous we've heard their routines a thousand times. Show has definitely gone down hill since Frankie and Russell left but I still found it entertaining. You get good ones and bad ones with all "news-quiz"-type shows though don't you? And cheers for the link N3RDSTER.
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Jun 17, 2011 16:00
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Surely Luther deserves its own thread? Great show I love it! Had no idea it was back this week so it was a great surprise 
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Jun 17, 2011 16:28
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Apprently the BBC is has shortened a Dr Who series for more new Sherlock.
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Jun 17, 2011 21:46
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SeanBeansShako posted:Apprently the BBC is has shortened a Dr Who series for more new Sherlock. Yaaay. Although I don't know why it has to be a case of either or. So The Kennedys which is apparently so inaccurate no decent american channel would show it is now on BBC2, even though it's already been shown on History, a bit weird.
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Jun 17, 2011 21:55
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SeanBeansShako posted:Apprently the BBC is has shortened a Dr Who series for more new Sherlock. Is there really anything in the Sherlock Holmes canon that can be stretched out to cover a whole series? - as opposed to the three original hour-long episodes? Although I did love the show for Benedict Cumberpatch being a sociopathic weirdo, and the clever floaty-text tech presentation, more than anything. (certainly beats out gigantic Generic TV OS closeups)
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Jun 17, 2011 22:23
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so I could say that I finally figured out what this god damned cube is doing. Get well Lowtax.
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Speaking of Dr Who holy gently caress this website is incredibly insane and creepy.
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Jun 17, 2011 22:49
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SeanBeansShako posted:Speaking of Dr Who holy gently caress this website is incredibly insane and creepy. It's not real. And Steven Moffat has denied this has anything to do with Sherlock. I'm inclined to believe him since they can't make series 3 of Sherlock anytime soon since both it's stars are busy with the Hobbit. Private Eye suggests that the reason for the shortened series is that Doctor Who is financially in a terrible state.
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Jun 17, 2011 22:52
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marktheando posted:It's not real. I'm disturbed actually why I'm saddened by this news.
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Jun 17, 2011 22:53
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SeanBeansShako posted:I'm disturbed actually why I'm saddened by this news. It's still hilarious, fake or not. Especially the guy's insistence that he isn't a pervert.
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Jun 17, 2011 22:59
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marktheando posted:It's still hilarious, fake or not. Especially the guy's insistence that he isn't a pervert. The indignity of not being written back by an elderly women over her knickers from the sixties is another kicker too.
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Jun 17, 2011 23:05
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marktheando posted:It's not real. Ahh booo. If it's true though I'd be pleased - Sherlock > Dr Who. Dr Who tits me off a bit because the beeb spends a big chunk of budget on a sprawling scifi series with loads of scope and it's charming and all but it's never going to be quite satisfying enough because it's a bloody kid's show (apologies to any autists/whofans) Come ooooooon gently caress the kids they already have loads of shows, give me a proper british scifi series. Taear posted:Really? I thought it was pretty poo poo, it really needs to be put to bed. So many of the jokes are now really obvious ones, and now that the comedians in it are all mostly famous we've heard their routines a thousand times. Yeah Mock the week is loving painful to watch. I don't know why but it winds me up worse than anything else on TV - except maybe the variations of "teenagers do a thing" shows you get on BBC3. It's weird because I like a lot of the comedians they have on fine in other contexts 
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Jun 17, 2011 23:08
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Wormophile posted:Ahh booo. If it's true though I'd be pleased - Sherlock > Dr Who. Dr Who tits me off a bit because the beeb spends a big chunk of budget on a sprawling scifi series with loads of scope and it's charming and all but it's never going to be quite satisfying enough because it's a bloody kid's show (apologies to any autists/whofans) It's a show for the whole family, not just kids! And what, you weren't satisfied with Outcasts? But seriously Doctor Who (along with Top Gear) is one of the BBC's most profitable shows what with foreign sales and merchandising so its budget doesn't really take away from other shows. I'll bet it makes more than its budget back for them. Its still dealing with budget cuts though along with the rest of the beeb so it's not surprising that its finances seem to be hosed enough that they can't afford a full next series.
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Jun 17, 2011 23:42
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marktheando posted:It's a show for the whole family, not just kids! And what, you weren't satisfied with Outcasts? Yes! I was excited about Outcasts and thought might shape up to be a pretty good show in later series, but it got cancelled. And I understand Dr Who! I like Dr Who! It's just it's the only british sci fi show with a decentish budget at the moment and it's so lame a lot of the time. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm honestly not sure how telly works) but isn't it very hard getting that sort of series commissioned in this country because they are very expensive and risky? And with Dr Who already ticking the scifi box for the BBC wouldn't they be less likely to commission any ambitious new series? Not rejoicing in slashed budgets, poor old telly  I'm sure I'll become less grumpy about Dr Who when Misfits comes back on
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Jun 18, 2011 00:33
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marktheando posted:It's a show for the whole family, not just kids! And what, you weren't satisfied with Outcasts? Dr. Who is a poorly written and filmed travesty of a show. We need less shows like that loving up the "image" of the sci-fi genre on TV and more shows with a similar quality to that of the Shadow line. Outcasts was also rubbish. There's so little good sci-fi on TV right now that something of an extremely high calibur needs to come out or eventually networks won't see the value in producing any at all.
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Jun 18, 2011 00:41
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I think what pissed me off most about the new Doctor Who is one storyline where the Master literally has the Doctor over a barrel and is about ready to gently caress him in the rear end - his plan worked absolutely loving flawlessly and the writers pulled a deus ex machina so deep from within their rear end that it had phlegm on it, and had the Doctor saved by the power of prayer. They literally prayed and chanted for the Doctor to be saved and lo and behold he was. Couldn't they think of anything better?
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Jun 18, 2011 00:59
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Wormophile posted:Yes! I was excited about Outcasts and thought might shape up to be a pretty good show in later series, but it got cancelled. And I understand Dr Who! I like Dr Who! It's just it's the only british sci fi show with a decentish budget at the moment and it's so lame a lot of the time. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm honestly not sure how telly works) but isn't it very hard getting that sort of series commissioned in this country because they are very expensive and risky? And with Dr Who already ticking the scifi box for the BBC wouldn't they be less likely to commission any ambitious new series? Not rejoicing in slashed budgets, poor old telly I was joking about Outcasts, I thought it was a terrible disappointment. Well even Doctor Who with all the piles of money it makes the BBC has had big budget cuts, so sadly I can't see them giving the green light to more expensive sci fi. I'd also love to see a new good British sci fi series. Oh well. Ddraig posted:I think what pissed me off most about the new Doctor Who is one storyline where the Master literally has the Doctor over a barrel and is about ready to gently caress him in the rear end - his plan worked absolutely loving flawlessly and the writers pulled a deus ex machina so deep from within their rear end that it had phlegm on it, and had the Doctor saved by the power of prayer. Russel T Davies (the former showrunner who wrote that awful, awful episode) is no longer running the show or writing for it so you might want to check out some of the Matt Smith ones (series 5 and onwards). With Steven 'Sherlock' Moffat as head writer the writing is a lot more consistently good.
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Jun 18, 2011 01:14
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marktheando posted:I was joking about Outcasts *cough* er yeah, me too 
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Jun 18, 2011 01:18
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Ddraig posted:I think what pissed me off most about the new Doctor Who is one storyline where the Master literally has the Doctor over a barrel and is about ready to gently caress him in the rear end - his plan worked absolutely loving flawlessly and the writers pulled a deus ex machina so deep from within their rear end that it had phlegm on it, and had the Doctor saved by the power of prayer. When the Doctor became Jesus, things got a little silly yeah. Blame that Russel oval office for making GBS threads that lazy assed solution out.
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Jun 18, 2011 01:42
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Dr Who is science fantasy, like Star Wars.
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Jun 18, 2011 13:12
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I can't believe anybody thought Outcasts was going to be any good. It was basically Survivors 2, but not quite poo poo enough to be as funny.
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Jun 18, 2011 14:08
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Trin Tragula posted:So, did I miss something, or did Shadow Line have precisely one character (Bede) who you could spend more than one rather short sentence describing without having to mention his job and/or function to the plot? Overall I enjoyed The Shadow Line, but the character development was easily its weakest part. Bede and Gabriel are the only two that had any decent amount of time devoted to their flawed lives (and I think both characters were excellent) - the rest were all rather one-dimensional or cartoonishly evil. Gatehouse was the worst written character on the show. Looking back, for a thriller that's intended to be relatively gritty and realistic, I'm rolling my eyes at what a ridiculous villain he's shown to be. I think his character is contrived and lazily written because he's that bastard that knows everything, happens to be ten steps ahead of everyone else, is a master of surveillance and snooping, a master string puller, people shake in fear at the mention of him, and he can take half a dozen bullets to the chest, survive and walk out of the hospital a few days later (after, of course, having thwarted an expert assassin). He's like a disappointing mix of Professor Moriarty, Scaramanga, Dr. Fu Manchu and Darth Sidius. I didn't have a problem with the very glib conclusion of the show, though. The police getting away with murder and protecting their own is quite apt given what's happened since summer 2005.
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Jun 18, 2011 14:32
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Lurchibles posted:Show has definitely gone down hill since Frankie and Russell left but I still found it entertaining. You get good ones and bad ones with all "news-quiz"-type shows though don't you? Mock the Week is so painful these days that even if it had Lee, Herring, Robin Ince, Addison, and 2 other people who I really like, I still wouldn't watch it. They don't really have much to work with these days.
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Jun 18, 2011 14:35
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thehustler posted:Mock the Week is so painful these days that even if it had Lee, Herring, Robin Ince, Addison, and 2 other people who I really like, I still wouldn't watch it. They don't really have much to work with these days. Really? I still find it funny, probably shows how small minded I am... I don't find it that painful, but nowadays I definitely prefer "Have I got News for you".
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Jun 18, 2011 14:54
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goatface posted:Dr Who is science fantasy, like Star Wars. As terms, science fiction and science fantasy sound pretty interchangeable to me.
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Jun 18, 2011 15:38
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The Doctor gains and loses abilities so often that he might as well be 1970's Superman. The "science" is just a setting.
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Jun 18, 2011 15:55
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goatface posted:The Doctor gains and loses abilities so often that he might as well be 1970's Superman. The "science" is just a setting. Well if having realistic science is a requirement for sci fi I can't think of anything that would qualify. Certainly not any tv series or movies.
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Jun 18, 2011 16:14
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marktheando posted:Well if having realistic science is a requirement for sci fi I can't think of anything that would qualify. Certainly not any tv series or movies. It's not really realistic, it's more that they attempt to explain it. It's not just magic with another name. Just compare Star Trek with Doctor Who - although the former isn't exactly hard sci-fi or anything, it still has a bash. Dr Who never does.
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Jun 18, 2011 16:19
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Taear posted:It's not really realistic, it's more that they attempt to explain it. It's not just magic with another name. I don't know, I'd say they are on about the same level of unrealism, and the technobabble they spout in Star Trek is worse than no explanation at all. Everything relies on magic crystals or whatever. I do know what you guys are getting at though, I just think making a distinction between science fantasy and science fiction is silly. Robots and spaceships and lasers are robots and spaceships and lasers whether they have technical manuals available or not.
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Jun 18, 2011 16:35
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Kin posted:Dr. Who is a poorly written and filmed travesty of a show. We need less shows like that loving up the "image" of the sci-fi genre on TV and more shows with a similar quality to that of the Shadow line. Kin being wrong again. Taear posted:It's not really realistic, it's more that they attempt to explain it. It's not just magic with another name. Not really, it just makes up particles and violates physical laws using technology. Which is basically magic.
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Jun 18, 2011 16:40
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The Star Trek writers used to do scripts that read "The ship need technobabble to fix the technobabble so the technobabble will reroute the technobabble to the technobabble Captain" any argument that places Dr Who on the side of 'well it's just magic fixing everything' puts Star Trek and Star Wars there too. And if you're arguing that some of the most obvious and well known works in science fiction are 'science fantasy' because of some weird reason you decided then you're being the epitome of 
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Jun 18, 2011 18:27
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ibroxmassive posted:And if you're arguing that some of the most obvious and well known works in science fiction are 'science fantasy' because of some weird reason you decided then you're being the epitome of But there's a distinction you don't seem to be aware of. The point of Star Trek, and a lot of science fiction, is to ask "what would it mean for us if science/technology advanced to this level?" Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, Time Cop, all pose that question. Dr Who and Star Wars have magic aliens with magic powers for the purpose of magic adventures. Since you're focusing on Star Trek, it should be noted that it was at it's best when it stuck to this idea, and at it's worst when it didn't.
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Jun 18, 2011 18:41
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Taear posted:It's not really realistic, it's more that they attempt to explain it. It's not just magic with another name. Haha motherfucker, you don't know shite. quote:At his recent keynote speech at the New York Television Festival, former Star Trek writer and creator of the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica Ron Moore revealed the secret formula to writing for Trek.
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Jun 18, 2011 18:45
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I'm not saying that science fantasy is bad or anything, soft sci-fi is good because it focuses on the people. The reason that you don't see a lot of hard science fiction on TV or in the cinema is because a lot of it would be really, really dull. That's why Moon was so good.
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Jun 18, 2011 18:56
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I like Doctor Who and see it as a good introduction for people to consider science fiction as a 'proper' genre rather than something fat poo poo nerds obsess about. It's just a shame a lot of the time programme makers still consider science fiction audiences to be these fat poo poo nerds and that's why there's an episode of Torchwood with a cyberman with tits. C'mon for fucks sake. On the radio there is sometimes good, hard sci-fi. And I could imagine the BBC commissioning a six part series tackling classic sci-fi such as I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream or Flowers For Algernon or maybe something witty and interesting like Sapphire and Steel. Instead I reckon we'll end up saddled with more poo poo like Outcasts or the one about the submarine, the survivors reboot, day of the triffids remake or some bullshit.
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Jun 18, 2011 20:28
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I'm still not quite sure why Doctor Who being science-fiction or not is a bad thing. Its a TV show about the adventures of an immortal alien who can travel to anywhere in the universe and at any time. The writers are trying to create entertaining weekly shows based around this premise and since its return, they haven't really written episodes which serve as a commentary for advanced technology. Going into it expecting them to do that is just destined to leave you disappointed, because its not the point of the show.
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Jun 18, 2011 20:34
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Anyone watch the Penn and Teller Fool Us show this time? Entertaining as before, but far too few acts, and too much faffing. But then it seems to be a limited series now at least, so that's not the end of the world.
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Jun 18, 2011 20:59
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justcola posted:Can we just all agree to pretend this never happened? This was where I gave up on Torchwood. I couldn't even finish watching the episode, though I did see Countrycide a bit after the first series aired and rather liked it. Also yesterday I spent a train journey watching a whole series of I'm Alan Partridge (series 2). I've never really given the series a watch before, and I had to try so hard to stop from cracking up in a public place, because some of that stuff is just absolutely hilarious. The one where he tries to present an award ceremony and ends up nearly passing out from blood loss and vomiting profusely while covered in glitter is one of the funniest things I've seen on TV in a long time. ChuckDHead fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jun 18, 2011 |
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Jun 18, 2011 21:00
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Yeah, give Alan another series, you poo poo.
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Jun 18, 2011 21:59
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