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cheese-cube posted:Can you elaborate on this? It's probably me just mis-reading it all but I'm not really sure what you mean by "urban". It's kinda difficult to explain without going down the obvious racial route, but essentially it used to be an underground niche for all walks of life, while nowadays your average listener is white, middle-class, and a young adult. Hopefully someone more eloquent than myself (not Infinity apparently, just seen that post) can explain better, I feel like I'll end up digging myself a hole if I'm not too careful.
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Jun 21, 2011 17:03
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I can't get enough of are Dan 
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infinity2005 posted:This thread needs to a refresh from the same repetitive poo poo both musically and the content. As soon as someone posted something actually slightly fresh (the Autonomic sound w/ examples) people ignored and went back to EVERY FRIDAY POST YOUR 5 FAVOURITE (MAINLY OBNOXIOUS LIQUID) YOUTUBES. I couldn't agree with you more. I stopped posting so much in this thread since it usually devolves into a discussion about netsky/hospital/pendulum. I felt putting effort into posts that were just being skimmed over was a waste of my time. That's not to say those topics shouldn't be discussed, but more that there's much more going on in dnb than the obviously visible. Thanks for saying what I've been wanting to say for the last month or so.
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Jun 21, 2011 17:14
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cheese-cube posted:Can you elaborate on this? It's probably me just mis-reading it all but I'm not really sure what you mean by "urban". Jungle here in the UK started off as an offshoot or kind of brother of the Hardcore Rave scene. When that scene started to get more... placid? A bit more formulaic, a bit more Ministry Of Sound-ish, the rougher, darker, more Ragga influenced stuff was locked out, pretty much told it was going nowhere. Of course that stuff was generally made by more working class, streetwise, city types(both black and white) than the more upper-middle/upper class type of folks you'd find at say a Progressive House dance in 1993. Basically Jungle came from people with a Dub/Reggae/Hip-Hop/Soul background. Anyway getting a bit convuluted there. Basically, Jungle got big underground, but began to get a bit of a bad name(some minor violence and all that) so the press and even some producers started calling it Drum & Bass to whitewash it(no pun intended), killing off the Jungle name(which I why I make a difference between Jungle and D&B). Of course by then almost all the energy and forward thinkers and girls(that bits important) had long since evaporated over to the garage scene. With that vacuum, in comes the new wave of generally middle class white kids who weren't cool or clued in enough to get on the bus before it took off. The bandwagon jumpers(of course not all jumpers are bad, but they're the ones who get their tickets from the conductor instead of just bumrushing it like the rest of the losers). D&B started to speed up some more and in doing that it take out a lot of the soul, energy and attitude - possibly because these new kids who made it never had much of those qualities in the first place. And no I don't count making as big a racket as you can energy or attitude. Making every sound massive and 'filthy' and wobbley or whatever is loving lowest common denominator poo poo, it's a piss easy way to get it going without actually needing to put effort into it. It's the microwave meal of the musical world. Sure it's quick but it tastes poo poo and is very unhealthy for you compared to making it up yourself with some nice fresh ingredients. I mean all that's fine I guess but shouldn't there be something more? Shouldn't you be pushing things? Shouldn't you be making an effort? Or at least trying to. Anyway all that leads to today where it's long since past a Peak Oil situation. Saturated with so much poo poo you spend more energy digging for the good stuff than what you get in return. It's not all bad though, sometimes formerly poo poo people can turn good. When I first started buying records it was Bad Company who were the top dogs. They were poo poo though, utter poo poo and I hated them, which is one reason why I never liked most D&B to start with. But then I find out that dBridge and his Exit records stuff - who I mostly like the sound of - was in Bad Company. Mind blown. Oh and Renegade Hardware can go gently caress itself no matter how good the stuff they're releasing are. I remember what they did to Kemal and Rob Data.
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Jun 21, 2011 17:39
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infinity2005 posted:Well poo poo, sorry. I thought we were discussing all there is to discuss about d&b in this thread. Yeah, I'm a big fan of recent (mostly liquid) drum n bass, which is why I started this thread in the first place. But I also enjoy stuff from a decade ago and stuff that isn't liquid at all. I love Netsky, sure (I don't see anything wrong with that and I'm not sure why everyone feels the need to get so uppity whenever he gets mentioned), but I also love when people post their mixes in here and I listen to each one. I was under the impression that this is more or less as well-rounded as a drum n bass thread could be. What more would you like to see from this thread? If you have decent suggestions of stuff to discuss that we haven't already touched on in here, I'd like to hear them. Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Jun 21, 2011 |
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Jun 21, 2011 18:18
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i think jungle was the best thing to happen to drum and bass in the past ~15 years. also can we stop arguing about what this thread is and isn't and focus more on the music, christ.
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Jun 21, 2011 18:22
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What's the story between Kemal and Renegade Hardware?
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Jun 21, 2011 18:29
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beeps-a-palooza posted:i think jungle was the best thing to happen to drum and bass Drum and Bass was the worst thing to happen to Jungle.
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Jun 21, 2011 19:44
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a foolish pianist posted:What's the story between Kemal and Renegade Hardware? 28 Gun Bad Boy might know it better than I, but it had to do with "Messiah" and the name ownership rights of the Konflict name. I think the guys wanted to release "Messiah" on their own label, and supposedly RH's label head strong-armed them in to signing over the rights to the name and that tune. I can't remember the details though, but it signified the change from Konflict to Kemal & Rob Data, and ultimately the guys dropping out of writing drum'n'bass; Rob Data dealing with a family issue and then doing academic degree work, and Kemal going through some sort of spiritual identity questioning, feeling the work they did and the reaction to it was too dark/evil, and moving on to other projects eventually.
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Jun 21, 2011 19:45
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28 Gun Bad Boy posted:Jungle here in the UK started off as an offshoot or kind of brother of the Hardcore Rave scene. When that scene started to get more... placid? A bit more formulaic, a bit more Ministry Of Sound-ish, the rougher, darker, more Ragga influenced stuff was locked out, pretty much told it was going nowhere. Of course that stuff was generally made by more working class, streetwise, city types(both black and white) than the more upper-middle/upper class type of folks you'd find at say a Progressive House dance in 1993. Basically Jungle came from people with a Dub/Reggae/Hip-Hop/Soul background. thanks for your knowledge dude. I always enjoy reading your posts.
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Jun 21, 2011 19:51
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SUBFRIES posted:28 Gun Bad Boy might know it better than I, but it had to do with "Messiah" and the name ownership rights of the Konflict name. I think the guys wanted to release "Messiah" on their own label, and supposedly RH's label head strong-armed them in to signing over the rights to the name and that tune. Pretty much that. I can't quite remember how it started, I want to say Konflict originally gave RH the song to appear on a compilation(Aftermath?), but then the song blew up and when Konflict tried to get it back to actually release it as a single, the Renegade Hardware guys decided to go all Don Corleone. Details on what exactly happened are obviously pretty scarce, but RH got the tune in the end, and -pure conjecture on my part here- I can bet Kemal and Rob probably haven't seen much of the profit either. Mind you I seem to remember the guy who runs RH(Clayton someone?) seemed to screw over more than one artist. Bizarrely a few years ago when we were taking care of a dear old family friend(as close to a third parent to me as you could get) after he contracted lung cancer he got a visit from an old pub friend who turned out to be Rob Rogers dad. Really nice guy actually and like my uncle a complete old fashioned Glasgow boy. Funny stories about selling DVDs in the Barras and all that. Anyway he basically told me after all that poo poo, his brother sadly dying and generally getting bored of travelling about Rob just pretty much got bored and jaded and chucked it in.
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Jun 21, 2011 20:05
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28 Gun Bad Boy posted:Pretty much that. I can't quite remember how it started, I want to say Konflict originally gave RH the song to appear on a compilation(Aftermath?), but then the song blew up and when Konflict tried to get it back to actually release it as a single, the Renegade Hardware guys decided to go all Don Corleone. Details on what exactly happened are obviously pretty scarce, but RH got the tune in the end, and -pure conjecture on my part here- I can bet Kemal and Rob probably haven't seen much of the profit either. Mind you I seem to remember the guy who runs RH(Clayton someone?) seemed to screw over more than one artist. On the subject of Messiah, I never understood why it was included on DJ Rap's Bulletproof. Obviously it was supposed to be a studio mix, but since that idea got scrapped, I wonder why Messiah and Concord Dawn's Morning Light got tossed in there?
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Jun 21, 2011 20:18
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I thought I bought the Messiah disc under the Kemal and Rob Data name - it was during my prime vinyl purchasing spree - but now I can't seem to find any online singles with that name. I might be thinking of Star Trails. Sucks that the label managed to hold onto the track, if that's what happened. Speaking of old label business, what happened to Higher Education? I loved their jackets, then they just sort of disappeared.
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Jun 21, 2011 20:30
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a foolish pianist posted:I thought I bought the Messiah disc under the Kemal and Rob Data name - it was during my prime vinyl purchasing spree - but now I can't seem to find any online singles with that name. I might be thinking of Star Trails. Sucks that the label managed to hold onto the track, if that's what happened. I'm pretty sure RH got more than just the track masters, I think they got all of the stems/parts, hence why there were a few remixes and even a remastered version released. The whole RH/Trouble On Vinyl/Renegade Recordings group operated in that manner I imagine, hence a lot of remixes of their hits, and sometimes remixes several years later. There were several aspects to that label that I liked, but the stories were pretty gnarly too. a foolish pianist posted:Speaking of old label business, what happened to Higher Education? I loved their jackets, then they just sort of disappeared. That was one of DB's labels (DB of Breakbeat Science), coupled to F-111 I think, and they were funded by a major label, maybe Sony? Chances are sales were not going as well as the major hoped, and they were dropped. I bet Airline Industries did the design, as they did the logo and sleeve design for Breakbeat Science and Orgone (I think), plus they did the design for a local promoter in DC. Probably in my personal top three designers/design collectives. The Airline guys did work for several of Dieselboy's releases, with Akira (https://www.aintshite.com) doing the Dungeon Master's Guide and a few others. Jon Black of Magnet Design is another favorite of mine, did the original Virus Recording sleeves, a lot of the Ram Records stuff in the late 90s, several Metalheadz sleeves, and a lot more.
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Jun 21, 2011 20:40
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HJB posted:I like this post, it's funny how you're essentially apologising for listening to a mainstream label in the past, then you go on to say you've 'moved on' to another mainstream label. Just listen to the music you like and gently caress what people on the Internet have to say about it (which of course includes me, but hey). I mean, I'm not a fan of the direction Hospital have taken in the last 18 months or so, but if they put out something I like I'll be more than happy to listen to it. Yeah I was kind of in a rush at the time I wrote that and wasn't entirely fair. A lot of Hospital's stuff sounds the same anymore. I will still white-knight for Netsky - the kid isn't even 21 I am pretty sure. That's awesome in my book. Most of his songs do sound pretty similar, but there are some great ones like Tomorrow's Another Day VIP. I haven't been very impressed with the quality of LPs released by them lately, namely Nu:Tone and London Elektricity. Both albums had about 2 tracks I really cared for. I am not claiming that Viper is any less mainstream - they just aren't as repetitive in my book. At least Worldwide 001 covered a number of different artists and sounds. We learned that Matrix and Futurebound probably shouldn't touch drumstep, but at least it was something new. That's better than what's coming out of hospital these days. Though I like that N3GUS track quite a bit. In short, I was a little rash about that. Skrillex is still a disgrace to the name dubstep.
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Jun 22, 2011 14:21
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What are the important labels to pay attention to in DnB now, then? I've been pretty consistently impressed with Black Sun Empire, but surely some of that is nostalgic pleasure left over from Epilogue. I really liked that J-Majik/Wickaman track from a couple of years ago, but I haven't been following labels in ages.
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Jun 22, 2011 15:04
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28 Gun Bad Boy posted:Awesome Thankyou for the excellent explanation and insight. I'm probably quite the scrub when it comes to D&B so I'm not really across a lot of the history but it is very interesting.
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Jun 22, 2011 16:13
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a foolish pianist posted:What are the important labels to pay attention to in DnB now, then? I've been pretty consistently impressed with Black Sun Empire, but surely some of that is nostalgic pleasure left over from Epilogue. Always a personal and subjective question but, for me, the labels that I think are pretty important now are the ones really going back to Drum and Bass essentials. I noticed that as producers bled out into dubstep, electro/breaks, whatever, it left a core that are still doing that kind of stuff. The most impressive recent album for me was Marcus Intalex's album 21 which really took me back to late 90s more simple essentials. The song Hot Hands is a good example. Plus some of the new samplings of Virus that have been put up have done me a lot of good. I would say they swung back into my line of sight after they produced Chubrub. When I saw them in Hong Kong a few years ago they played a lot of this more simple style that the genre was moving away from and I really thought to myself "Yeah, this is what I was missing". I promptly went back and listened to Industry by Dom & Roland, Wormhole by Ed Rush & Optical, and Calibre's Musique Concrete and have been there ever since. Plus I got to chat with Ed Rush and Optical extensively after the show because Ed Rush was trying to hook up with one of my friends. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Plus he gave her a mix cd that she promptly gave to me which, at the time, was smoking brand new dubs.
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Jun 22, 2011 17:02
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i'm loving a lot of stuff from g13, ganja, 535 recordings, and apex
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Jun 22, 2011 17:04
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Ive been loving Wilkinson - Overdose as well as some of his other stuff. As terrible as the name is, Drumstep-style has definitely piqued my interest recently like Urban Assault and Whiskey Pete. edit: also Camo and Krooked's Pulse of Time EP Play fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jun 22, 2011 |
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Jun 22, 2011 22:14
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What the gently caress is drumstep though in this context, I don't get it? There was DnB being made like this for years. So it's half-time, it's drumstep? This is what i would have thought the dubstep bro's would like to have as their dnb counterpart. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHoRvKa54xU Got loads of silly wobbles and samples they should love it. I think literally if you play the worst cheesy jump-up dnb at a current US dubstep 'massive' they'll love it. Where's that dickhead Clipz surely he'd love to be taking advantage of this poo poo? Btw Hospital should re-release that Zarif/Danny Byrd track as a single intended for radio play, it'd be Katy B big imo.
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Jun 22, 2011 22:43
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infinity2005 posted:What the gently caress is drumstep though in this context, I don't get it? There was DnB being made like this for years. So it's half-time, it's drumstep? pretty much. in fact its even stupider because this existed before "step" music if any kind
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Jun 23, 2011 06:17
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0TRZL6eP1M Please come back.
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Jun 23, 2011 06:22
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infinity2005 posted:Where's that dickhead Clipz surely he'd love to be taking advantage of this poo poo? Funny you should say that actually. As of late 2009 he completely reinvented himself as Redlight...and he's really good. It blows my mind he's had quality like this in him all this time while making poo poo like 'Offline'. Here's a few Redlight tracks. When they get dropped on nights out it's pure carnival time, I love it. What You Talking About ft Ms Dynamite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7nUXLjzjhM (the instrumental to this is called MDMA if you're interested) Source 16: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPrXFOCi-d8 Stupid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yERZC42S4T4 (Disclaimer: none of these are d&b. They are, however, proper party tunes. Don't expect Clipz to have started making Autonomic tunes.)
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Jun 23, 2011 11:25
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Ahaha ok i dunno why i didn't know that. Well fair play to him. Should i be expecting to find Dillinja making deep soulful house tunes or something as well now instead then?
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Jun 23, 2011 13:05
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infinity2005 posted:Ahaha ok i dunno why i didn't know that. Well fair play to him. Should i be expecting to find Dillinja making deep soulful house tunes or something as well now instead then? I wish he was doing that rather than what he's doing now. 
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Jun 23, 2011 13:35
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Anae posted:(Disclaimer: none of these are d&b. They are, however, proper party tunes. Don't expect Clipz to have started making Autonomic tunes.) Joe Nice had a couple early Redlight tunes on dub, before the shift to the 135-ish BPM range, and it was mindblowing because I was never a Clipz fan. Been snatching up every release I can, plus awaiting the Roller Express stuff (Redlight & Toddla T). Like Anae said, it's straight up party music. I play a lot of it in my non-dnb sets, and it gets a great crowd every time. Also saw Redlight play in DC in April with Untold and Toddla T, and it was a fun, rowdy night.
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Jun 23, 2011 13:53
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28, could you tell us more about modern jump-up? I find it a really interesting sub-genre and there really isn't that much of it here in the states (which is kind of nice, I can surprise crowds with some really deep tunes). I have noticed there are good jump-up producers (taxman,heist,majistrate,hoogs,harvest)and bad jump-up producers, and I'm wondering, as a clueless foreigner, when did this wobble/breakbeat d&b get popular?
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Jun 23, 2011 18:06
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beeps-a-palooza posted:28, could you tell us more about modern jump-up? I find it a really interesting sub-genre and there really isn't that much of it here in the states (which is kind of nice, I can surprise crowds with some really deep tunes). Believe it or not I'm not really the man to ask about D&B, Subfries or some of the other regulars around here would be. D&B was never my thing, I started in the garage/grime/broken beat thing(well a bit of House and Techno stuff before that) as by then D&B was probably well off the radar in terms of what was cool and progressive. Not that it wasn't selling but barring a occasional track every now and then it wasn't selling to me. Like I said before when I first started buying records it was people like Bad Company who were the top dogs in D&B and I just hated them. I really liked the early Hospital stuff, but that was mostly because they were big on the Broken Beat thing for a while(they've been dead to me ever since they dropped that, honestly just because it wasn't 'selling' or whatever. What is this a business!?) and when they did D&B it was great stuff like those early Landslide singles. I do remember they used to call the Jump-up stuff Clownstep for a while, I guess they probably still do. Basically like how people use 'Brostep' nowadays. Whatever it was it wasn't really any worse than the other stuff I heard I guess. The only D&B I really didn't like when I first heard it was that really wannabe-aggro sounding American stuff. Gridlok and all that. To me a lot of that was just like,"no gently caress you mum I won't tidy my room!" kinda deals. Pretty soulless, swaggerless tripe. I know more about it when it was about during the Jungle days, with your Ganja stuff and all that. But even then that's when I kind of lose interest in Jungle. If it says anything past say 1996 on the label generally I'm not that interested. Even anything past 1994 I tend not to look for. The jump-up stuff is fun to listen to in a mix though. Even the Ragga stuff I'm generally not too keen on, too many folk in the mid-90s tried to jump on the band wagon and stick their stuff over a amen and a bassline. Sometimes it was done well, but other times you hear it and you're just nah, no thanks. I still love this though: TNT - 2 Degrees. I actually picked up the reissue by mistake as at the time they were doing garage so I figured oh it must be garage.
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Jun 23, 2011 19:21
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As he said up there, I was going to say that Ganja was the first label that I remember that REALLY did the whole wobble distort jump up thing a lot. Twisted Individual was, for me, the first guy that was super huge and doing this. But I'm probably a bad example because I was in college with no money in Virginia in the US where dnb wasn't exactly 'huge' so I didn't hear a lot of tunes out that were probably coming.
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Jun 23, 2011 19:27
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i guess it really appeals to me because there are tons of jungle influences in jump-up which I love, like ragga vocals and really dope/complex breakbeats.
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Jun 23, 2011 19:51
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It's important to know that Jump-up can refer to a few different types of D&B. Jump-up originally referred to the wobbly bassline stuff that was made famous by guys like Mickey Finn & Aphrodite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3PsT5Hynfc see also: Dream Team - Clear my Throat DJ Zinc - Ska Shimon & Andy C - Night Flight Dieselboy - 97 Octane (DJ mix) The more modern jump-up (also called Nu-school jump-up or Clownstep) took the original idea and, in my opinion, distilled the enjoyability of the tracks by filling every available frequency with noise. When done properly, there is nothing more hype than dropping a massive jump-up tune on a big system. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLJ6hwsq624 see also: Heavy Hittahz & Shufunk - Let the Bass Kick DJ SS - We Came to Entertain (Sub Zero remix) Original Sin & Taxman - Penamana (could also be considered Drumstep) Twisted Individual - Hand Grenade (Clipz remix)
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Jun 23, 2011 20:25
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Come on man, no Twist 'Em Out by Dillinja? This was the original 'clownstep' anthem. Even though it annoyed the hell out of me (Especially people talking about it) it hit like a ton of bricks in a club with a good system. Plus you're right about Aphrodite and Mickey Finn. I find that stuff a lot more listenable than the newer Clipz things, just not my sound. :subjective101: In addition, some great jump up stuff came from Ram, especially from Moving Fusion's LP. Songs like Ghost Lane and Guy Fawkes are just legendary for me. I LOVE dropping those now because they're just old enough to be forgotten and everybody goes 'Ohhhhhh yeaaaaaaah' and gets down.
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Jun 23, 2011 20:42
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synertia posted:Come on man, no Twist 'Em Out by Dillinja? This was the original 'clownstep' anthem. Even though it annoyed the hell out of me (Especially people talking about it) it hit like a ton of bricks in a club with a good system. I considered putting Andy C's Body Rock in there, as well. quote:In addition, some great jump up stuff came from Ram, especially from Moving Fusion's LP. Songs like Ghost Lane and Guy Fawkes are just legendary for me. I LOVE dropping those now because they're just old enough to be forgotten and everybody goes 'Ohhhhhh yeaaaaaaah' and gets down. Oh man, about a month ago, I grabbed up just about every Moving Fusion track I could get my hands on. Such great tunes and they're appropriate for just about any set.
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Jun 23, 2011 21:38
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chrix posted:Oh man, about a month ago, I grabbed up just about every Moving Fusion track I could get my hands on. Such great tunes and they're appropriate for just about any set. Since we're on the subject of both older jump-up and Moving Fusion...mix Mickey Finn & Aphrodite - Badass with Moving Fusion - Turbulence. You won't regret it.
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Jun 23, 2011 22:55
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28 Gun Bad Boy posted:I still love this though: TNT - 2 Degrees. I actually picked up the reissue by mistake as at the time they were doing garage so I figured oh it must be garage. The submarine tune! Such a guilty pleasure... it was on so many jump-up mix tapes I had from the late 90s. I'm not the right person to ask about jump-up, but it looks like chrix, synertia and Anae have it covered. I'd say check out stuff on Formation, True Playaz, Ganja, D-Style, Grid and Zombie. Way, way back it was mainly stuff on True Playaz, early Frontline (they kind of shifted to a little techier & deeper territory IMO), Joker, early Trouble On Vinyl (another label that shifted styles over the years).
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Jun 24, 2011 13:37
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SUBFRIES posted:The submarine tune! Such a guilty pleasure... it was on so many jump-up mix tapes I had from the late 90s. Ok, so hopefully you can help me. One of the first dnb mixes I ever listened to was this random mix cd a friend of mine was given at a party. The entire CD was full of awesome classic jump-up tracks, but unfortunately I've lost it and have been trying to hunt down a certain track from the mix. Perhaps you might know what I'm talking about. It contained samples from Jermaine Dupri's "Money Ain't a Thang" and I'd love to be able to track this down. Any ideas?
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Jun 24, 2011 16:49
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chrix posted:Ok, so hopefully you can help me. One of the first dnb mixes I ever listened to was this random mix cd a friend of mine was given at a party. The entire CD was full of awesome classic jump-up tracks, but unfortunately I've lost it and have been trying to hunt down a certain track from the mix. Perhaps you might know what I'm talking about. It contained samples from Jermaine Dupri's "Money Ain't a Thang" and I'd love to be able to track this down. Any ideas? Off the top of my head I don't know, but I did a search on rolldabeats.com and it came up with a Mulder remix from 2000. No audio on youtube.com though. Mulder was definitely a jump up guy around then.
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Jun 24, 2011 17:35
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SUBFRIES posted:Off the top of my head I don't know, but I did a search on rolldabeats.com and it came up with a Mulder remix from 2000. No audio on youtube.com though. Mulder was definitely a jump up guy around then. That's the only thing I found from a link to DOA, but since there wasn't audio I couldn't be sure. There are way too many terrible bootlegs out there. Thanks anyway!
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Jun 24, 2011 18:15
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hey can somebody please post some really cheesy dancefloor dnb? (not netsky please) thanks 
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Jun 24, 2011 21:19
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brathering posted:hey can somebody please post some really cheesy dancefloor dnb? Cheesy in what way? House/trance vocals? Jump up?
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Jun 24, 2011 21:49
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