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Dan Quinn as Vitor Belfort http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FIKfErYHZ0&feature=player_detailpage#t=41s
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Jun 20, 2011 02:56
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Jesus Christ on a Schwinn... Quinn is just hosed up.
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Jun 20, 2011 09:59
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I would like to know more about the "chin" of a fighter. Why do people seem to vary so widely in their ability to take punches? Is it something you can train, or will causing yourself damage in training just be counter-productive? Why does being knocked out a few times make you more vulnerable in future? Does a new or unusually dominant fighter who haven't been hit much know how hard they are to knock out, or is it the sort of thing you learn when it happens? Thankyou 
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Jun 22, 2011 17:28
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You can do what Shaolin monks used to do, develop their chins by swinging sandbags into each other's faces.
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Jun 22, 2011 17:43
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Phyzzle posted:You can do what Shaolin monks used to do, develop their chins by swinging sandbags into each other's faces. Did you just watch 36th Chamber of Shaolin too?
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Jun 22, 2011 17:59
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King Pawn posted:I would like to know more about the "chin" of a fighter. Why do people seem to vary so widely in their ability to take punches? Everyone is different. Some guys react poorly to the pain, some to the psychological stress of being hit, and others just go out if a punch clips their chin. quote:Is it something you can train, or will causing yourself damage in training just be counter-productive? There's some thought that suggests it's connected to your neck muscles. If you make those stronger, supposedly you're harder to knock out. Realistically, it's not something you can train for. Taking hits in training makes you easier to knock out in a fight. See my response below and the careers of Chute Box fighters (such as Wanderlei Silva and Big Nog). quote:Why does being knocked out a few times make you more vulnerable in future? Getting knocked out is a response to taking massive trauma to your brain. It is the definition of a concussion. Your brain doesn't want to remember getting hurt, so it shuts off. That damage doesn't just magically go away and your brain remembers how terrible it felt. Every time you get hurt, your brain shuts off a little bit easier. This is why chin seems to deteriorate so quickly. Once you start taking hits, your brain responds worse to them each time because of the previous damage it's already taken. This is also why you don't want to take those hits in training. quote:Does a new or unusually dominant fighter who haven't been hit much know how hard they are to knock out, or is it the sort of thing you learn when it happens? It's basically impossible to tell how good someone's chin is until they take some really solid hits. That's why Rampage vs Jones isn't a sure thing. It could be that Jones has an invincible chin so he can wade in and take Rampage down while shrugging off hooks, but maybe if his chin gets grazed he'll drop like a sack of grain. We have no idea until it happens.
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Jun 22, 2011 18:04
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mobn posted:Did you just watch 36th Chamber of Shaolin too? And the sequels.
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Jun 22, 2011 18:11
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King Pawn posted:I would like to know more about the "chin" of a fighter. Why do people seem to vary so widely in their ability to take punches? Is it something you can train, or will causing yourself damage in training just be counter-productive? Why does being knocked out a few times make you more vulnerable in future? Does a new or unusually dominant fighter who haven't been hit much know how hard they are to knock out, or is it the sort of thing you learn when it happens? The most honest answer is that we don't really know a lot about knock outs. People have different theories about it shocking your brains or twisting your neck around or something but I've never read any real proof of either one. Some people are probably going to come at you in this thread like they know something but they don't. As far as if you can train to have a better chin, again hard to say because it's unclear what factors into having a good chin. Sparring full contact and getting used to getting punched will probably help to avoid looking like Eldar Kurtandize or Brock Lesnar. Also it seems like the better someones cardiovascular endurance the better their ability withstand a big shot but na there aren't really good answers for your questions
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Jun 22, 2011 18:12
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Haraksha posted:Chute Box fighters (such as Wanderlei Silva and Big Nog). The Nogs were never in Chute Boxe, they were with BTT
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Jun 22, 2011 18:16
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niethan posted:The Nogs were never in Chute Boxe, they were with BTT Ah, my bad. I just mean, guys who train to fight to the death tend to fall apart later in life and guys who eat a lot of shots in their career also look like poo poo later on. Bundt Cake posted:we don't really know poo poo This is also true, so take what I wrote with a hefty grain of salt. I'm hardly an authority and just repeated what I've heard before.
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Jun 22, 2011 18:22
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Haraksha posted:This is also true, so take what I wrote with a hefty grain of salt. I'm hardly an authority and just repeated what I've heard before. I agree with most of what you said. I was still typing when you posted. The neck thing seems like it has pretty weak evidence to me but its been awhile since I cared about this very much so maybe something better and new is out there to read, I don't know.
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Jun 22, 2011 18:30
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the real ticket is to not be someone who relies on their chin but instead uses good defense to minimize those shots. Of course, to be a top level fighter, you need at least a decent chin because everyone gets unlucky and you're going to take some whoppers at some point.
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Jun 22, 2011 18:31
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Are there pride DVD (or blu ray) box sets available that show the complete events as aired? I was going to purchase the ones distributed by the UFC but apparently they dont show any of the walkouts and cut out any camera shots of the commentators.
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Jun 22, 2011 18:55
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Phyzzle posted:And the sequels. Holy poo poo, there are sequels? I haven't seen those anywhere, are they just numbered titles, or are they called something different?
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Jun 22, 2011 20:12
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Teepkick Shakur posted:Are there pride DVD (or blu ray) box sets available that show the complete events as aired? I was going to purchase the ones distributed by the UFC but apparently they dont show any of the walkouts and cut out any camera shots of the commentators. I think the bushido dvds are all the broadcast in its entirety but I could be wrong.
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Jun 22, 2011 20:20
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Teepkick Shakur posted:Are there pride DVD (or blu ray) box sets available that show the complete events as aired? I was going to purchase the ones distributed by the UFC but apparently they dont show any of the walkouts and cut out any camera shots of the commentators.
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Jun 22, 2011 20:45
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mobn posted:Holy poo poo, there are sequels? I haven't seen those anywhere, are they just numbered titles, or are they called something different? They are sometimes all called The Master Killer movies instead of the 36th chamber.
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Jun 22, 2011 22:23
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Teepkick Shakur posted:Are there pride DVD (or blu ray) box sets available that show the complete events as aired? I was going to purchase the ones distributed by the UFC but apparently they dont show any of the walkouts and cut out any camera shots of the commentators. http://www.amazon.com/Pride-Fighting-Championships-Legacy-Vol/dp/B000NJL4PS/ref=pd_cp_d_2 is what you're looking for. I have 28-32 and it shows everything, including bas and quadros talking about the fights over a beer.
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Jun 22, 2011 22:26
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mobn posted:Holy poo poo, there are sequels? I haven't seen those anywhere, are they just numbered titles, or are they called something different? Return to the 36th Chamber, and Disciples of the 36th Chamber. I've never seen Disciples. I know what I'm doing tonight.
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Jun 22, 2011 22:41
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ForbiddenWonder posted:http://www.amazon.com/Pride-Fighting-Championships-Legacy-Vol/dp/B000NJL4PS/ref=pd_cp_d_2 is what you're looking for. I have 28-32 and it shows everything, including bas and quadros talking about the fights over a beer. These look promising. Thanks.
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Jun 22, 2011 23:14
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LvK posted:Return to the 36th Chamber, and Disciples of the 36th Chamber. I found them, looks like I'm losing an evening this week.
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Jun 23, 2011 00:02
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Save Russian Jews posted:I think the bushido dvds are all the broadcast in its entirety but I could be wrong. My Bushido ones show everything including the weird video game like start with the high stage, the spotlights and the crowd waving and the walkouts. On the knockout thing I did read somewhere in an article written by a doctor where he talked about the muscles in the side of the neck have something to do with it because their density leads to a slower rotation of the head on hooks and a less sudden snapping motion on uppercuts. He pointed to Tito Ortiz as an example of someone who's been TKO'd but never knocked lights out (not sure if that's true). Then again I can't find the article so I can't post a source. I think at the end of the day the general consensus seems to be, medical science has theories, but mostly they point to concentrated force, and or sudden rotation / snapping of the head causing massive shock trauma to the brain that makes it hit the reset button. Adding to that the general consensus on avoiding getting knocked out seems to be to keep your chin tucked in, your hands up and move well enough to avoid taking clean shots to the head as much as possible. BlindSite fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jun 23, 2011 |
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Jun 23, 2011 00:41
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I am no expert, but I wouldn't be too surprised if the reason Tito hasnt really been knocked out cold may be because he has a big rear end gorilla skull that protects his brain much better than any human engineered helmet ever could.
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Jun 23, 2011 02:04
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fawker posted:I am no expert, but I wouldn't be too surprised if the reason Tito hasnt really been knocked out cold may be because he has a big rear end gorilla skull that protects his brain much better than any human engineered helmet ever could. It’s hard not to be in awe of Tito Ortiz's head. So imperious in its shape and proportions. So defiantly unbowed. So … well, frankly, so unbelievably mammoth.
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Jun 23, 2011 02:12
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can someone please post jokes.jpg I need it for a totally unrelated reason
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Jun 26, 2011 10:26
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Jun 26, 2011 16:55
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Xguard86 posted:the real ticket is to not be someone who relies on their chin but instead uses good defense to minimize those shots. Of course, to be a top level fighter, you need at least a decent chin because everyone gets unlucky and you're going to take some whoppers at some point. Doesn't help to have as little head movement as the Nogs do, and have a boxing style predicated on counters... you can tell when they fight that they are used to decades of being punched in the face, countering those landed punches and winning so the wear makes sense.
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Jul 13, 2011 21:56
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Has any fight in a major organisation resulted in a submission victory via omoplata?
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Jul 16, 2011 15:20
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Shane del Rosario did one in Strikeforce.
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Jul 16, 2011 18:44
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Lid posted:Has any fight in a major organisation resulted in a submission victory via omoplata? Gracie beat Akebono with one at K-1 Dynamite!!! 2004, but it's highly questionable whether that counts as a fight in a major organization.
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Jul 16, 2011 22:31
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I thought Akebono tapped to the wristlock.
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Jul 16, 2011 23:49
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1st AD posted:I thought Akebono tapped to the wristlock. It's very possible but I figure if someone gets a tap with an omoplata/facelock it should still count as a win via omoplata and I don't think an omoplata/wristlock is any different.
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Jul 17, 2011 02:23
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Something that I've often wondered is the reasoning behind cutting fighters. Paulo Thiago is 3-3 in the really stacked welterweight division. On the other hand, Chris Camozzi won 3 in a row, lost one, and was cut. While I imagine there are as many answers as there are fighters, what are some of the factors that can influence whether fighters get cut? Obviously big stars are more likely to get a break, but what affects it for the lower tiers?
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Jul 17, 2011 13:20
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Well not just the number of wins/losses, but obviously also who your opponents were, the profile of the fights, if you were dominated for 3 rounds or lost a controversial split decision, the potential the company sees in you, your marketability, especially if you are from a market the company wants to tap, your actions outside the ring, if you put asses in seats, the color of your hair, if dana likes your attitude, if you want to be a loving fighter, if you have a grudge match they can sell,
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Jul 17, 2011 14:17
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niethan posted:Well not just the number of wins/losses, but obviously also who your opponents were, the profile of the fights, if you were dominated for 3 rounds or lost a controversial split decision, the potential the company sees in you, your marketability, especially if you are from a market the company wants to tap, your actions outside the ring, if you put asses in seats, the color of your hair, if dana likes your attitude, if you want to be a loving fighter, if you have a grudge match they can sell, I figured those would be factors. I guess in the case of the two I brought up, there's not really a shortage of mean mugging brazilians and WW has a backlog of amazing fighters (even if Thiago is in BOPE) but the middleweight division is kind of short on prospects. It's not like Camozzi was setting the world on fire, but it seemed a little sanguine. Tying into this a little (further behind the scenes stuff) How do they determine who gets title shots and eliminators? I mean, the Fitch discussion has its own thread, but, say, Jim Miller, who's on a seven fight win streak, is finally fighting guys near the top of the division. He's far from a decision fighter or grinder, what's taken so long? The obvious answer is they thing he's hard to sell or something, but I can't see why that is.
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Jul 17, 2011 14:47
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Snowman_McK posted:but, say, Jim Miller, who's on a seven fight win streak, is finally fighting guys near the top of the division. He's far from a decision fighter or grinder, what's taken so long? Two BJ fights, a promise of a title shot to Pettis, a draw, and an injury. Circumstances have created a logjam at the top of 155, so a lot of guys who are deserving of a title shot have been treading water.
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Jul 17, 2011 16:21
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Snowman_McK posted:I figured those would be factors. I guess in the case of the two I brought up, there's not really a shortage of mean mugging brazilians and WW has a backlog of amazing fighters (even if Thiago is in BOPE) but the middleweight division is kind of short on prospects. It's not like Camozzi was setting the world on fire, but it seemed a little sanguine. Paulo Thiago isn't a generic prospect, he's an established contender who is 3-3 with finishes over the interesting two AKA welters. His back to back losses came to two of the most stalwart welterweights of the past half decade. Camozzi lost to an Australian, and looked quite bad trying to wrestle the korean guy in the match before that. Thiago and Camozzi are not equivalent. quote:Tying into this a little (further behind the scenes stuff) How do they determine who gets title shots and eliminators? I mean, the Fitch discussion has its own thread, but, say, Jim Miller, who's on a seven fight win streak, is finally fighting guys near the top of the division. He's far from a decision fighter or grinder, what's taken so long? The obvious answer is they thing he's hard to sell or something, but I can't see why that is. Aside from what Fatherdog said, that there hasn't been a shot for him to have, which is totally correct, there's also the rapidly changing nature of the lightweight division. Fisher, Pellegrino, Joe Daddy, BJ, Kenny, Sherk and Franca (by the way, check out Frank Edgars sheet if you want to see a bad rear end record) went from being the top dogs of the division to being irrelevant in a blink. Now prospects who were basically laughably bad only a couple years ago, like Guida, Guillard and Siver, have moved into that position. Think about the amount of traction Sotiropolous had after beating Joe Daddy and Pellegrino. Miller just hasn't had those kind of wins over established top guys. But its not just a question of why hasn't he gotten those match ups, theres a pretty big question of who those opponents would even be. Guida seems to have that type of juice now, but I don't think Melvin or Siver have convinced people they are outstandingly credible yet. Jim and Guida kind of exist in that top contender zone by themselves, where there used to be about ten guys. There is another related point I couldn't find the right time to make when people were mentioning it earlier, but the UFC is actually pretty good at awarding title shots to the people who deserve it. They know there is something in it for them to maintain the credibility of the champions, and while they definitely like to put their most known quantities in title fights, they have repeatedly put on title fights that ain't worth a poo poo to them business-wise because the fighter deserved the shot (Marquardt and Okami come to mind). However, that doesn't really relate to Jon Fitch this time around, because he exists in a division that's changing almost as fast as lightweight, and most the guys he's fought are complete non-entities. But he had a fair chance to get the shot against BJ, and he blew it, and furthermore hes refusing to face the new guard, which is fundamentally different than what is going on with Jim Miller right now.
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Jul 17, 2011 17:59
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I understand the mindset a bit, but I'm kinda frustrated by name guys who refuse to fight less known guys. You get a name by beating an established fighter. Someone's gotta give them that chance.
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Jul 17, 2011 19:47
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It's annoying, but it's smart. Fitch knows not to bet on MMA, especially when it's his reputation he's gambling with. He knows he has the potential to beat anyone at 170, but he also knows it's possible for him to lose against anyone they'd book him against. A loss against someone who's in the middle of the pack right now would practically guarantee Fitch won't get another title shot.
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Jul 17, 2011 22:09
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Thermos H Christ posted:It's annoying, but it's smart. Fitch knows not to bet on MMA, especially when it's his reputation he's gambling with. He knows he has the potential to beat anyone at 170, but he also knows it's possible for him to lose against anyone they'd book him against. A loss against someone who's in the middle of the pack right now would practically guarantee Fitch won't get another title shot. I agree with you and from a pure business persepective if I was him I'd be doing the same thing. As the UFC sees it though he's not a brock lesnar or a Rashad evans who'll do a tonne of buys when he jumps in. On the Lightweight title thing, as of the completion of Maynard Edgar III there will have been 4 title fights in 17 months with 3 guys fighting for a title. That's a little nuts, and guys who want the next shot in that division cannot afford to rest up and wait because people will forget you in such a stacked division. Guys you could consider "in the mix" is almost the same number of guys most people can name at MW in the UFC. BlindSite fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jul 18, 2011 |
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Jul 18, 2011 00:25
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