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Gettin' in on this thread. I've picked up Game of Thrones since I've been deployed and I've burned through the first two books in short order (for me anyway). I tend to be a very fickle reader, too, so it actually caught me off guard how engaged I've been in the series. I'm currently a few chapters into Storm of Swords now and all I can say from the whole ending streak of ACOK is  Martin is incredibly adept at crushing my expectations constantly. Why can't we at least be treated to Stannis crushing Joff's head with his brother's hammer? Also, poor Renly. . . drat shadow baby-having witch. Go ahead and count me as one of those who grumbles whenever a Sansa or Daenarys chapter pops up. Danny has had exactly one interesting chapter to me, and that was the last one in GoT. At least Sansa's chapters have started serving the duel purpose of explaining the happenings around King's Landing and Stannis' attack. I realize that Danny's story is going to ultimately intertwine with the story more properly, but in the meantime they just serve as a completely unnecessary (at the moment) subplot that just takes away from the more interesting (to me) stuff happening in the Seven Kingdoms. On a final note, SOS opening with Catelyn having let Jaime go on his 'word' has made me want to beat my head on the table. Why are all the Starks (except for Robb and Arya it seems. Why isn't Robb a POV yet, dammit?) incredibly gullible and overly trusting? Dammit.
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Jun 26, 2011 10:30
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Yuran M. Bazil posted:I can't believe I actually forgot about Zombie Cat. Alright then, four prologue characters plus ned equals five Since when is the standard for being a main character that they have a POV chapter though? There are plenty of non-POV characters that people would care about more if they died than certain POV ones, especially since he started introducing so many new POVs. Robb, Renly, Oberyn and Drogo were all well liked prominent characters who got killed off. Tywin's death is notable since even though he was nominally a bad guy, he seemed untouchable until his death. hampig fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Jun 26, 2011 |
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Jun 26, 2011 13:11
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hampig posted:Since when is the standard for being a main character that they have a POV chapter though? There are plenty of non-POV characters that people would care about more if they died than certain POV ones, especially since he started introducing so many new POVs.  and so on that people say about the series.But who knows, maybe Daenerys, Tyrion or some other POV characters dies in Dance/Winds of Winter. That would make me change my mind. Kainser fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Jun 26, 2011 |
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Jun 26, 2011 13:27
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Hell Diver posted:Gettin' in on this thread. I've picked up Game of Thrones since I've been deployed and I've burned through the first two books in short order (for me anyway). I tend to be a very fickle reader, too, so it actually caught me off guard how engaged I've been in the series. Dany is pretty awesome in ASoS.
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Jun 26, 2011 13:48
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Kainser posted:Well, we've had 14 POV characters (20 if you include those with only 1 or 2 chapters in feast), and of those 1 is dead (2 if you include Arys Oakheart). For me that's really not enough to deserve the No-one is safe, main characters die all over the place, there is no happy ending! Which is completely missing my point. Just because a character has a POV chapter it doesn't make them a main character, and just because a character doesn't have one, it doesn't mean they aren't. How can you possibly argue that Aeron Greyjoy and Davos Seaworth are main characters compared to Robb or Tywin, or that people wouldn't be more upset by Littlefinger or Mance Rayder dying than Cersei? I tend to agree that the series isn't as depressing as people make out, but that isn't because not many of the POVs die.
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Jun 26, 2011 14:09
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hampig posted:Which is completely missing my point. Just because a character has a POV chapter it doesn't make them a main character, and just because a character doesn't have one, it doesn't mean they aren't. How can you possibly argue that Aeron Greyjoy and Davos Seaworth are main characters compared to Robb or Tywin, or that people wouldn't be more upset by Littlefinger or Mance Rayder dying than Cersei?
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Jun 26, 2011 14:26
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Kainser posted:I agree with you for the record, it's just that I dislike the fact that it feels like POV characters have plot armor, which, again, might change with the coming books. Yeah I get that. In some ways though it's understandable, some of them are merely windows into the world more than participants, killing a bunch of them doesn't guarantee emotional impact and would just obfuscate the storytelling and the narrative.
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Jun 26, 2011 15:43
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From death, yeah, because they are obviously needed to tell the story. From terrible things to happening to them otherwise? Hell no.
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Jun 26, 2011 15:43
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DarkCrawler posted:From death, yeah, because they are obviously needed to tell the story. From terrible things to happening to them otherwise? Hell no. Right? Jaime, a POV character, gets his hand cut off. Brienne gets savaged by Biter. Cersei's locked in a dungeon. Arya's blind. Theon is also locked in a dungeon, and half-crazy. I see no plot armor.
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Jun 26, 2011 23:19
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By the way, is it ever confirmed what happens to the Greatjon?
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Jun 26, 2011 23:52
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Yuran M. Bazil posted:By the way, is it ever confirmed what happens to the Greatjon? He's being held hostage by the Freys / Boltons.
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Jun 27, 2011 00:07
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So I'm a little bit into Book 3 and frustrated at the ongoing odyssey Arya has had to go through for all of Book 2. How hard can it be, to get out of King's Landing and find some decent people who would bring her to her brother/family? Her fate is the reason I even started with these stupid books after the TV season ended, and at this point she's still on the run. Argh.
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Jun 27, 2011 01:53
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I just finished ACOK in my re-read. I read the first 3 books right after ASOS came out, so it's been a looooong time and I basically forgot everything that happened in this book except for that there's a huge-rear end battle at the end. I have no idea how they're going to do that on TV. Now I start A Storm of Swords! This one I remember a little better:
Actually that's all I remember. Looking forward to this one! Here I go!
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Jun 27, 2011 04:32
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pigdog posted:So I'm a little bit into Book 3 and frustrated at the ongoing odyssey Arya has had to go through for all of Book 2. How hard can it be, to get out of King's Landing and find some decent people who would bring her to her brother/family? Her fate is the reason I even started with these stupid books after the TV season ended, and at this point she's still on the run. Argh. ACOK spoilers: The adventures of Arya were pretty much my favorite part of ACOK, so maybe you'll disagree, but I think everything that happens is pretty believable. Yoren was a decent person who was bringing her to her family, but unfortunately they had to trek through a warzone to get there so that didn't last. And Bolton is a Stark bannerman so maybe if Arya had revealed herself she would have been safely brought back. But if you're a 9 year old who's father and all his men were just murdered are you gonna trust anyone who you're not absolutely certain is on your side? Sansa might, but Sansa's an idiot.
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Jun 27, 2011 06:09
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If they don't use a variation of the prologue from SOS for the very last scene of season 2 of the show, I am going to weep. Nothing in the second book is as "OHSHITOHSHIT, OH poo poo" as the the horn sounding three times at the Fist of the First Men, and that would be a hell of a way to end the season.
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Jun 27, 2011 08:05
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Omnomnomnivore posted:I just finished ACOK in my re-read. I read the first 3 books right after ASOS came out, so it's been a looooong time and I basically forgot everything that happened in this book except for that there's a huge-rear end battle at the end. I have no idea how they're going to do that on TV. If it's anything like the show it'll be one set with lots of quick cuts with about 2-3 establishing shots to affirm that indeed it is a gigantic epic battle. I'm not complaining, just being realistic here.
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Jun 27, 2011 08:11
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oops
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Jun 27, 2011 16:34
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DFu4ever posted:If they don't use a variation of the prologue from SOS for the very last scene of season 2 of the show, I am going to weep. Nothing in the second book is as "OHSHITOHSHIT, OH poo poo" as the the horn sounding three times at the Fist of the First Men, and that would be a hell of a way to end the season. That would be great. They could just end the season on: "Three! I heard three...they never blow three. Two is for rangers returning. Three is for..." "Others."
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Jun 27, 2011 18:46
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Radish posted:oops Habibi posted:That would be great. They could just end the season on: 
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Jun 27, 2011 18:53
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Kainser posted:I agree with you for the record, it's just that I dislike the fact that it feels like POV characters have plot armor, which, again, might change with the coming books.
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Jun 27, 2011 18:58
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Kainser posted:Your post was ok by the way if that's why you edited it out. Wasn't it just Feast stuff in spoiler tags? Hrmm...yeah, I'd forgotten about that. Robs that line of quite a bit of its ominousness.
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Jun 27, 2011 18:59
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drat you Lost. Wasting our time for six seasons and stealing away the power of one of the best lines of the series
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Jun 27, 2011 19:14
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So there seems to be a problem with ADWD. Places in germany are starting to ship them out, and those with german amazon prime will get the books perhaps as early as tomorrow. I don't know if this has been posted yet because I avoid the bad thread like the plague as I'm not finished yet.
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Jun 27, 2011 20:34
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Oh, dammit. I hope the ebook versions haven't leaked or we're really done for.
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Jun 27, 2011 20:42
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Received the email with the changed expected delivery date of 29/6 this morning. Shows up like that in my account, too. Let's see what happens but I'd expect spoilers to start flying at around 8 AM GMT on Wednesday.
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Jun 27, 2011 20:49
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Kainser posted:That would be a pretty amazing end of the season. Just sucks that they changed the name of Others to White Walkers Old Nan actually refers to them as white walkers on pg.240 of GoT. "...while the direwolves grow gaunt and hungry, and the white walkers move through the woods." "You mean the Others," Bran said querulously." "The Others," Old Nan agreed.
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Jun 27, 2011 21:03
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schoenfelder posted:Received the email with the changed expected delivery date of 29/6 this morning. Shows up like that in my account, too. Let's see what happens but I'd expect spoilers to start flying at around 8 AM GMT on Wednesday. I'm honestly kindof excited for people posting spoilers but more the quantity of spoilers then actually reading them. The sight of huge black boxes of text in every discussion would indicate, at least, that poo poo Happens. I can wait a couple more weeks to find out about any particular plot developments but I can't wait to know if it's going to be a 1000 pages of disappointing nothing-in-particular-happening like Feast For Crows was. I think I can spoil everything that happens in Feast in a smallish paragraph...
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Jun 27, 2011 21:24
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TMNT-Rocksteady posted:Old Nan actually refers to them as white walkers on pg.240 of GoT. "...while the direwolves grow gaunt and hungry, and the white walkers move through the woods." "You mean the Others," Bran said querulously." "The Others," Old Nan agreed. Old Nan Joke related to this spoiler: Old Nan is an original hipster, she knew the White Walkers before they sold out and changed their name  I vastly prefer 'White Walkers', the others is just so generic
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Jun 27, 2011 21:52
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Started reading the books as I'm sure a lot of people have because of the shows. Never really had the impulse to try them out before, figured what the hell, I like the show, the 4 pack is 15 bux on Kindle, I'll give em a shot. Holy moly the writing is rough. When Tyrion talks to Jon in the courtyard in the first book, he goes through the door and "for a moment, his shadow stands as tall as any king" are you for loving real. is there no other way to communicate that tyrion has regal qualities belied by his outward freakishness other than with that anvil of a metaphor I'll keep plugging cause it's not so bad as to be totally unentertaining but ffffffffffff it's embarrassing in some spots hypocrite lecteur fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Jun 28, 2011 |
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Jun 28, 2011 01:43
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hypocrite lecteur posted:Started reading the books as I'm sure a lot of people have because of the shows. Never really had the impulse to try them out before, figured what the hell, I like the show, the 4 pack is 15 bux on Kindle, I'll give em a shot. I don't see anything wrong with that?
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Jun 28, 2011 01:47
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Good writing -- you get the sense that someone is regal or intelligent or evil because the things they do and say, or the way they're described, leads you to develop a sense they're evil or regal or whatever Bad writing -- "The ugly dwarf is actually as tall as a king when you look at him the right way! You know this because I, the narrator's voice, have explicitly told you." show, not tell
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Jun 28, 2011 01:51
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hypocrite lecteur posted:Started reading the books as I'm sure a lot of people have because of the shows. Never really had the impulse to try them out before, figured what the hell, I like the show, the 4 pack is 15 bux on Kindle, I'll give em a shot. See also: Tyrion doing a  backflip.
Kainser fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jun 28, 2011 |
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Jun 28, 2011 01:53
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hypocrite lecteur posted:Good writing -- you get the sense that someone is regal or intelligent or evil because the things they do and say, or the way they're described, leads you to develop a sense they're evil or regal or whatever I think you're totally misinterpreting that scene, dude. It has nothing to do with his 'regal qualities.' It seems to me that GRRM is just drawing an illustrative line between how people perceive Tyrion and the fact that he's only stunted on the outside. It's a bit of creative writing, and isn't intended to show that he has regal qualities or is intelligent or is good or is evil or whatever. That, plus it's a great way to write the image of someone's shadow being thrown across the floor by a light behind them. I think if there's one thing GRRM does extremely well it's avoiding describing his character's traits and attitudes, and instead giving you that character's words and actions for you to make your own decision about them. Eg: There's never a sentence that reads, "And Sansa was an annoying little pratt who was annoying and whined about things and was annoying."
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Jun 28, 2011 02:19
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hypocrite lecteur posted:Good writing -- you get the sense that someone is regal or intelligent or evil because the things they do and say, or the way they're described, leads you to develop a sense they're evil or regal or whatever Since the books are written from a limited third person perspective, you are kinda seeing things in the way that the chapter's POV character does. I forget whose POV that was (Jon's, or Tyrion's?), but it could be a sad little throw-away thought.
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Jun 28, 2011 02:21
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Habibi posted:Eg: There's never a sentence that reads, "And Sansa was an annoying little pratt who was annoying and whined about things and was annoying." There's lots of that kind of sentence. And Catelyn's chapter has like a half dozen mentions of how significant it is that a dire wolf would have been killed by a stag. The guy doesn't leave a lot to the reader. Anyways I'm not going to argue with you cats about it if you like it that's good I'm not saying I don't just that GRRM isn't exactly a subtle touch
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Jun 28, 2011 02:35
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I wouldn't call him a master of the written word, but he's pretty good once he gets going. He's a much stronger storyteller, and the story gets pretty awesome and then Book 4 happens, holy poo poo.
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Jun 28, 2011 02:38
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Kainser posted:There is some spotty writing earlier on in Game of Thrones, I think GRRM was going for a different tone for a while before changing his mind. Did Tyrion really backflip? Was it Jon's inflated sense of Tyrion's capabilities? as Drunk as Jon was? It's not written in an over complicated manner, but two directions that can work to both sides - 1) Jon was drunk and thinks Tyrion more capable physically, not just mentally or 2) Tyrion is more than he seems and allows himself (for an instance) to be truly seen that he's somehwhat capable?
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Jun 28, 2011 02:58
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But at the end of the day, the direwolf wasn't killed by the stag.  Yet
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Jun 28, 2011 03:00
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I just finished ACOK finally Oh no jon Don't join the wildlings 
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Jun 28, 2011 04:09
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hypocrite lecteur posted:There's lots of that kind of sentence. And Catelyn's chapter has like a half dozen mentions of how significant it is that a dire wolf would have been killed by a stag. The guy doesn't leave a lot to the reader. 
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Jun 28, 2011 04:20
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