The Prison Thread

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Andropov: May 29, 2011; by angerbeet

Fatkraken posted:

But Skinner argues AGAINST free will; by his own reckoning there are not the good and bad people you were previously talking about, people are simply products of their environments.

Yes, and some people's environments are conducive to bad behavior. People do not have any personal autonomy, but some people are certainly more dangerous and harmful to society than others, not of their own accord, but dangerous and harmful nonetheless.

quote:

If you can change the environment, you can change the behaviour, you don't have to kill people to rid society of undesirable behaviour patterns. This is an argument in favour of stepping up efforts in rehabilitation and reintegration of criminals into non-criminal society.

Yes, but you can't go back in time. Some damage is irreparable. I am all in favor of optimizing the environment to make sure future generations do not become murderers and rapists and so on, but the murderers and rapists of the current day must be dealt with first.

quote:

What, specifically should this destination be? "betterment of society" and "advancement of national interests" is too vague, I'm after very specific goals like "a smaller number of innocent people should be killed prematurely", "standards of living should be improved for the poorest people" or "the ability to pursue chosen life goals regardless of the circumstances of birth should be increased for all people"

Those are all laudable goals and I would certainly consider them to be subsets of societal betterment.

quote:

What good does it do to society to execute innocent people?

It doesn't.

quote:

Literally fascism.

For those American posters shaking their heads and dismissing this poster as an obvious troll, please bear in mind that your government is currently engaging in exactly the kind of behaviour this poster is advocating. Except instead of "engaging in violence", your government chooses "inciting to terrorism (as secretly and unaccountably defined by us)" as its criteria for extra-judicial murder.

I don't deny that I am a fascist (which is not synonymous with national socialist; I am neither a racialist a la Jared Taylor nor a racist). I am not a troll, however.

Andropov fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Jun 26, 2011

# ? Jun 26, 2011 15:28

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# ? May 28, 2024 21:27

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Fatkraken posted:

You do know that 1984 was a political satire right?

Also DNA does not work that way.

# ? Jun 26, 2011 15:29

Perestroika: Apr 8, 2010

Andropov posted:

No, I am not OK with killing innocent people. DNA testing and the like can now show us beyond all reasonable doubt who did what, when, where, and to who. I propose installing surveillance cameras in all public areas, among other things, to decrease the chance of executing an innocent.

I hope you are aware that it is exactly this way of thinking that will in the long run lead to the downfall of societies. You fail to include things such as happiness or liberty in your equation of the greatest societal gain. Like it or not, people tend to be unhappy under constant surveillance and will only tolerate it for so long until they rebel. You would "fix" the judical system and break the rest of society.

# ? Jun 26, 2011 15:32

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

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I'm really happy you explained the divide between social background and conscious wrongdoing, Fatkraken! (E: and better than I could, too!)

My parents and most of my family are both psychically ill and alcoholics. I've broken the law more times than I have hairs on my head, and at long last I can keep track of what I do on purpose, and what is a consequence of my upbringing.

Thankfully I live in evil commie Scandinavia, so all I ever got was a slap on the wrist..

# ? Jun 26, 2011 15:34

Fatkraken: Jun 23, 2005; Fun-time is over.

Andropov posted:

Yes, but you can't go back in time. Some damage is irreparable. I am all in favor of optimizing the environment to make sure future generations do not become murderers and rapists and so on, but the murderers and rapists of the current day must be dealt with first.

You can turn someone who has committed murder into someone who will not commit any more murders. Even as it stands, the recidivism rate for murder relatively low. It's hard to find lifetime statistics, but I have found a three-year statistic of about 1.2%: of murderers released from prison, 1.2% commit another murder within three years of release. This means you have to kill 100 murderers to save one victim (who may well also be a murderer, since many multiple-murderers are gang members and kill members of rival gangs). So the death penalty as an insurance policy against future murders is not appropriate.

# ? Jun 26, 2011 15:36

Andropov: May 29, 2011; by angerbeet

quote:

I'm really happy you explained the divide between social background and conscious wrongdoing, Fatkraken! (E: and better than I could, too!)

There is no divide. Human beings do not possess any autonomy of their own as we live in a deterministic universe. "Free will" is a nonsensical concept. This is a totally different debate, however.

# ? Jun 26, 2011 15:38

Perestroika: Apr 8, 2010

Andropov posted:

There is no divide. Human beings do not possess any autonomy of their own as we live in a deterministic universe. "Free will" is a nonsensical concept. This is a totally different debate, however.

So if there is no free will and everything is determined, who are you to say we should remove murderers from society? How can you say it isn't their destiny to commit their crimes unhindered?

Frankly it seems like you just read your first serious philosophical book and it "like totally blew your mind, dude" and now you take it for the one true gospel.

# ? Jun 26, 2011 15:46

Andropov: May 29, 2011; by angerbeet

I am a rational individual. Maybe it is their destiny to commit their crimes unhindered, but I'd rather they didn't.

I take inspiration from many books and many authors, so I would disagree with your amateur psycho-analysis.

# ? Jun 26, 2011 16:05

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Andropov posted:

There is no divide. Human beings do not possess any autonomy of their own as we live in a deterministic universe. "Free will" is a nonsensical concept. This is a totally different debate, however.

If you don't get that exposure to criminal and/or abuse in a young child will automatically lead to behavioural problems as an adult I don't know what to tell you.

Seriously, I cannot see how you can hold that position without having an extremely drat sheltered existence.

# ? Jun 26, 2011 16:06

Andropov: May 29, 2011; by angerbeet

quote:

If you don't get that exposure to criminal and/or abuse in a young child will automatically lead to behavioural problems as an adult I don't know what to tell you.

I have never denied this.

# ? Jun 26, 2011 16:08

Grazing Occultation: Aug 18, 2009; by angerbutt

Andropov posted:

I am a rational individual. Maybe it is their destiny to commit their crimes unhindered, but I'd rather they didn't.

I take inspiration from many books and many authors, so I would disagree with your amateur psycho-analysis.

You're a "rational individual" with an extraordinarily simplified and limited view of the world. DNA doesn't magically prove people guilty and courts often do make mistakes.

If it helps you feel more rational, many of your arguments sound like something pulled from Stalin's memoirs.

# ? Jun 26, 2011 16:08

jettisonedstuff: Apr 9, 2006

Please stop feeding the troll and ruining the thead, guys.

# ? Jun 26, 2011 16:18

Tias: May 25, 2008; Pictured: the patron saint of internet political arguments (probably)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

jettisonedstuff posted:

Please stop feeding the troll and ruining the thead, guys.

This. I don't think anything constructive will come of it.

An update on my Numbers Gang project: The girl I know that travels a lot in S. Africa and has the book on the subject has left town because she's moving, but I just wanted to say that I'm still working on getting a full copy of the story.

# ? Jun 26, 2011 16:24

ma i married a tuna: Apr 24, 2005; Numbers add up to nothing; Pillbug

Here's something about gay inmates putting a halt to prison rape back in the 70s.

quote:

Ed Mead was arrested relatively early in the Brigade�s trajectory, so he spent much of his organizing time behind bars. In his close to twenty-year sentence, Mead led work strikes, filed petitions, and generally did his best to fan the flames of discontent wherever he went. This made him something of a scourge to prison administrators, who bounced him through state and federal penal systems, moving him along whenever his organizing efforts began to bear fruit.

One of his more notable efforts was Men Against Sexism (MAS), a group of "tough faggots" who forcibly stopped the buying and selling of prisoners by prisoners for the purpose of sexual exploitation [violent pimping of weaker prisoners by stronger ones] in Walla Walla. During the group�s zenith in 1978, MAS proved so effective that a feminine male prisoner could wear a dress around without threat of violence. MAS backed up their work with homemade grenades, single-shot rifles, and a willingness to die to stop prisoner-on-prisoner rape. "Of all the political work that I�ve done," says Mead, Men Against Sexism is what I�m most proud of. (The group effectively disbanded after a foiled escape attempt in 1978 involving Mead, several other prisoners and an array of homemade weapons.)

http://www.feminisnt.com/2011/the-most-beautiful-photos-youll-see-today-70s-queer-resistance-in-prison/

# ? Jun 28, 2011 23:01

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

Andropov posted:

I am a rational individual. Maybe it is their destiny to commit their crimes unhindered, but I'd rather they didn't.

I take inspiration from many books and many authors, so I would disagree with your amateur psycho-analysis.

I have a question for a theory of mine: Do you work in IT or computer programming of any sort?

Sorry for the off topic.

# ? Jun 28, 2011 23:06

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

Oh rationalist determinist fascist, you so crazy. :allears:

I wish he could stick around to tell us more about how a punishment-based judicial system makes sense in a deterministic world.

# ? Jun 28, 2011 23:28

HELLO THERE: Mar 22, 2010

Andropov posted:

I am a rational individual.

No, you're not.

You didn't derive your belief system from first-order logic, you're basing it on what you've read or been told and then you've built your worldview on your own irrational reactions to these things, just like everybody else.

# ? Jun 29, 2011 01:45

dm: Jun 5, 2004; There is no alternative.

"indefinite" hunger strike at Pelican Bay.

quote:

Prisoners in the Security Housing Unit (SHU) at Pelican Bay State Prison (California) are going on an indefinite hunger strike as of July 1, 2011 to protest the cruel, inhumane, and torturous conditions of their imprisonment. The hunger strike has been organized by prisoners in an inspiring show of unity across racial and geographic lines upheld and exacerbated by prison officials.

more info here on solidarity stuff. it might even get a bit of media coverage so it has the potential be a really good opportunity to bring a lot of these issues out into the foreground.

immediate context that has probably already been mentioned in this thread more than once is that California's prison system has been in federal receivership for being in violation of the eight amendment for quite a while now. the state government has resisted coming into compliance and puts everything it has into litigating against federal injunctions. just one example:

"American Bar Association posted:

The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld a cap on California�s prison population that was imposed by a three-judge federal panel to reduce prison overcrowding and improve inmate health care.

At the time the cap was imposed, it could have resulted in the release of 46,000 prisoners. Since then, 9,000 prisoners have been released, reducing the potential number of prisoners that could be freed under the order to 37,000.

The U.S. Supreme Court's 5-4 decision on Monday found that the cap was authorized by the Prison Litigation Reform Act and needed to combat violations of inmates� constitutional rights to medical and mental-health care. Justice Anthony M. Kennedy wrote the majority opinion (PDF).

The potential release of prisoners under the cap is �of unprecedented sweep and extent,� Kennedy wrote, but �so too is the continuing injury and harm resulting from these serious constitutional violations.�

An appendix included two photos of crowded prison conditions and a third showing the small cells for people waiting for a bed for mental-health crises.

Before the cap was imposed, California prisons were housing nearly double the numbers they were designed to hold. Under the lower-court order, the state was required to reduce the prison population over a two-year period to 137.5 percent of the design capacity.

�For years the medical and mental health care provided by California�s prisons has fallen short of minimum constitutional requirements and has failed to meet prisoners� basic health needs,� Kennedy said. �Needless suffering and death have been the well-documented result.�

here is a post HFG made on Pelican Bay specifically.

e: wow, this is classy

quote:

According to the wife of a Pelican Bay SHU prisoner, �The prison has been advertising the 4th of July holiday Menu, with hotlinks, strawberry shortcake and ice cream. They have NEVER had ice cream in the SHU, and in the nearly 20 years he has been in the CA system, he has never seen a strawberry.�

This shows us the range of divide-and-conquer tactics the CDCR is using to break the strike even before it has started. It also shows how seriously the CDCR is taking this action�as something to repress before it begins, but also not-significant enough to warrant any substantial change in prison conditions. More so, this tactic of repression demonstrates the purpose of Security Housing Units�to crush prisoner�s capacity for building relationships and collective resistance by further isolating them. We need to make our solidarity with the prisoners loud and clear!

dm fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Jun 29, 2011

# ? Jun 29, 2011 15:35

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

AZ: Wal-Mart/Martori Farms Use & Abuse of Women at Perryville Prison

quote:

Wal-Mart has described its relationship with Martori Farms as an example of "fruitful collaboration."

quote:

One of the women prisoners at Martori Farms told Truth-Out: "We work eight hours regardless of conditions .... We work in the fields hoeing weeds and thinning plants ... Currently we are forced to work in the blazing sun for eight hours. We run out of water several times a day. We ran out of sunscreen several times a week. They don't check medical backgrounds or ages before they pull women for these jobs. Many of us cannot do it! If we stop working and sit on the bus or even just take an unauthorized break we get a MAJOR ticket which takes away our 'good time'!!! We are told we get 'two' 15 minute breaks and a half hour lunch like a normal job but it's more like 10 minutes and 20 minutes. They constantly yell at us we are too slow and to speed up because we are costing $150 an acre in labor and that's not acceptable... In addition, the prison has sent women to work on the farms regardless of their medical conditions."

# ? Jun 30, 2011 07:13

PTBrennan: Jun 1, 2005; by Y Kant Ozma Post

We can't even afford to properly clothe our prison population.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8607429/US-inmates-forced-to-wear-dirty-underwear.html

quote:

US inmates 'forced to wear dirty underwear'

A clothing shortage is forcing inmates in at least one Illinois prison to wear the same underwear several days in a row, causing a health and hygiene concern, a watchdog group said.

The John Howard Association found during a recent visit to the Taylorville Correctional Center that inmates wore dirty and badly worn clothes that were washed twice a week, The Bloomington Pantagraph newspaper reported for a story published on Wednesday.

The prison in central Illinois issues each inmate only two pairs of underwear, which means they must be worn multiple days without washing.

"The practice of administering used underwear that inmates must wear multiple days without washing raises serious hygiene concerns," a report issued by the group states. "(The Department of Corrections) must find a way to provide sufficient clothing for inmates."

"I think this is a problem system wide," said John Maki, who is director of the association. He said the underwear shortage is a symptom of larger problems such as overcrowding in the state's prisons.

A spokeswoman for the Department of Corrections says officials are doing their best in difficult financial times. The state has a multibillion-dollar budget deficit.

"This issue is like many facing the state where budget constraints prevent us from being able to do mass uniform replacement," Stacey Solano said.

Inmates once were given a new set of clothes every six months. That no longer happens.

May not seem like a big deal to some but it's very telling of overall problem with our system. We can't afford to give them underwear yet we can afford to take away their freedom and subject them to inhumane conditions which leads to even worse social behavior/consequences. We're taking a problem and making it 10x worse in the end.

# ? Jun 30, 2011 15:34

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

dm posted:

"indefinite" hunger strike at Pelican Bay.

more info here on solidarity stuff. it might even get a bit of media coverage so it has the potential be a really good opportunity to bring a lot of these issues out into the foreground.

immediate context that has probably already been mentioned in this thread more than once is that California's prison system has been in federal receivership for being in violation of the eight amendment for quite a while now. the state government has resisted coming into compliance and puts everything it has into litigating against federal injunctions. just one example:

here is a post HFG made on Pelican Bay specifically.

e: wow, this is classy

If it doesn't work they'll just force feed them anyhow.

# ? Jun 30, 2011 17:23

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

nm posted:

If it doesn't work they'll just force feed them anyhow.

Knock them out with drugs and then use a feeding tube.

# ? Jun 30, 2011 18:04

PTBrennan: Jun 1, 2005; by Y Kant Ozma Post

quote:

Knock them out with drugs and then use a feeding tube.

I wouldn't be surprised if they used the hunger strike as some sort of evidence of mental instability.

Prisoners won't eat so we are forced, to ensure their safety and well being, to medically render them unconscious and administer life saving nutrients via feeding tubes.

Unless this has already been done before and I'm just not that up to date with our horrible prison practices?

# ? Jun 30, 2011 18:17

anonumos: Jul 14, 2005; Fuck it.

PTBrennan posted:

I wouldn't be surprised if they used the hunger strike as some sort of evidence of mental instability.

Prisoners won't eat so we are forced, to ensure their safety and well being, to medically render them unconscious and administer life saving nutrients via feeding tubes.

Unless this has already been done before and I'm just not that up to date with our horrible prison practices?

It has been used before, as recently as 2009 (especially in Gitmo).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force-feeding#In_prisons

quote:

Under United States jurisdiction, force-feeding is frequently[7][8] used in the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, prompting in March 2006 an open letter by 250 doctors from seven Western countries in the medical journal The Lancet, warning that, in their opinion, the participation of any doctor is contrary to the rules of the World Medical Association.[9] Retired Major General Paul E. Vallely visited Guantanamo and reported on the process of force-feeding[10]:

quote:
They have to restrain the prisoners when they feed them because they attack the nurses. They spit in their faces. They're simply restrained for 20 minutes so they can be fed Ensure. They get their choice of four flavors of Ensure. It's put in a very unobtrusive feeding tube smaller than a normal straw and it's put in there for 20 minutes, so they get breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Main article: Guantanamo hunger strikes

On December 6, 2006, the UN War Crimes Tribunal at The Hague approved the use of force-feeding of Serbian politician Vojislav �e�elj. They decided it was not "torture, inhuman or degrading treatment if there is a medical necessity to do so...and if the manner in which the detainee is force-fed is not inhuman or degrading".[11]

In 2008, a Connecticut prisoner, William B. Coleman, was sued by the state who sought an injunction to force feed the competent prisoner against his will. As of 2009, that case, Coleman v. Lantz, is pending before Judge James Graham of the state's superior court.[12]

In 2009, "Shoe bomber" Richard Reid was force fed while on a hunger strike in a Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado.[13]

And, just this past winter an inmate in Salt Lake County died on a hunger strike. New policies in the jail will allow jail staff to ask for a court order to force feed prisoners on strike in the future. It appears most such actions will require a clear and imminent danger of starvation before force-feeding begins, but we all know that's ripe for abuse in the early days of a hunger strike. Kind of a, "Look out, he's comin' right fer us!" situation.

http://www.thecrimereport.org/archive/2011-06-ut-jail-proc

quote:

After Utah Inmate Dies of Starvation, Jail To Act Quickly in Similar Cases

The Salt Lake County sheriff said his jail is making it easier to force-feed after an inmate died of starvation and dehydration this winter, says the Salt Lake Tribune. Sheriff Jim Winder said any staff member who realizes an inmate isn�t eating can inform superiors, who then notify health professionals and quickly determine how to proceed. If professionals and jail administration decide the inmate needs to be force-fed, jail staff will pursue a court order.

The previous procedures required specific staff to make note of a hunger strike and initiate a staff discussion about how to proceed. Winder said the old procedures for force-feeding appear to have been designed for rational inmates who launch hunger strikes as a form of protest. "In the future we will be acting much quicker," Winder said. Carlos Umana, 20, who was awaiting trial on attempted murder charges, died at the jail on Feb. 27. Umana was 5 feet 3 inches tall and at least 180 pounds when he entered jail in late October. He weighed 77 pounds at his autopsy.

# ? Jun 30, 2011 18:31

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

Oh my god, I said that in jest. Why was I right?

# ? Jun 30, 2011 19:27

PTBrennan: Jun 1, 2005; by Y Kant Ozma Post

quote:

Oh my god, I said that in jest. Why was I right?

It doesn't surprise me one bit.

They beat, humiliate, abuse and pretty do what they want to prisoners, why wouldn't they be allowed to force feed them?

quote:

It has been used before, as recently as 2009 (especially in Gitmo).

Thanks for the links and info brotha. Adding them to my bookmarked pages and gonna read up on them.

PTBrennan fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jun 30, 2011

# ? Jun 30, 2011 19:57

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Tigntink posted:

Oh my god, I said that in jest. Why was I right?

Wait, you thought I was joking?
Nothing in prison shocks me.

# ? Jun 30, 2011 22:23

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

nm posted:

Wait, you thought I was joking?
Nothing in prison shocks me.

I thought it was sarcasm! :eng99:

It's like that little girl who murdered her toddler brother and I said "well theyll charge a 12 year old with murder, why wouldn't they charge a 6 year old with murder" and I didn't really want to believe that they would but in my heart I know it's a possibility.

I knew it was a possibility, I just didn't want to believe it already happened.

# ? Jun 30, 2011 22:27

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

As far as I know force feeding prisoners on a hunger strike has been done as least as far back as the Suffragette movement in the early 20th century. Back then they actually had to force a tube down the womens' mouths or noses, which led to all kinds of injury. The women back then categorized it as a form of torture. Then again, back then hunger strikes were seen as a big deal and women were regularly released when they became sick. Ofcourse after they had recovered, they'd be put right back in prison.

Then:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Forcefeeding.jpg

Now:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Restraint_chair_used_for_enteral_feeding_-b.jpg

# ? Jun 30, 2011 22:39

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Tigntink posted:

I thought it was sarcasm!

It's like that little girl who murdered her toddler brother and I said "well theyll charge a 12 year old with murder, why wouldn't they charge a 6 year old with murder" and I didn't really want to believe that they would but in my heart I know it's a possibility.

I knew it was a possibility, I just didn't want to believe it already happened.

Our office entertained some high-level Vietnamese criminal lawyers a few months ago. They were genuinely aghast that in America we can charge 12 year olds with crimes.

# ? Jun 30, 2011 23:26

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Tigntink posted:

It's like that little girl who murdered her toddler brother and I said "well theyll charge a 12 year old with murder, why wouldn't they charge a 6 year old with murder" and I didn't really want to believe that they would but in my heart I know it's a possibility.

They still might. Prosecutors have said it is "unlikely" they will charge her as an adult but that implies they haven't actually ruled it out.

# ? Jul 1, 2011 00:15

BigHead: Jul 25, 2003; Huh?; Nap Ghost

joat mon posted:

Our office entertained some high-level Vietnamese criminal lawyers a few months ago. They were genuinely aghast that in America we can charge 12 year olds with crimes.

There are a lot of high-level American criminal lawyers are aghast that American lawyers can charge 12 year olds with crimes. These same lawyers are even more aghast that American lawyers do charge 12 year olds with crimes. It's not a lawyer problem, it's a politician problem.

Edit: \/\/ Agreed

BigHead fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jul 1, 2011

# ? Jul 1, 2011 18:25

shovelbum: Oct 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

BigHead posted:

There are a lot of high-level American criminal lawyers are aghast that American lawyers can charge 12 year olds with crimes. These same lawyers are even more aghast that American lawyers do charge 12 year olds with crimes. It's not a lawyer problem, it's a politician problem.

It's a business issue, politics is just the public face.

# ? Jul 1, 2011 18:26

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

Cory Maye to be released from prison.

# ? Jul 2, 2011 00:13

silicone thrills: Jan 9, 2008; I paint things

HidingFromGoro posted:

Cory Maye to be released from prison.

I'm very glad to see that. It still makes me angry that he served time at all and he'll always have manslaughter on his record. Anyone else had broken in and he would have hailed a hero by the NRA for using a gun to stop an intruder.

# ? Jul 2, 2011 04:56

Eat This Glob: Jan 14, 2008; God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. Who will wipe this blood off us? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent?

Tigntink posted:

I'm very glad to see that. It still makes me angry that he served time at all and he'll always have manslaughter on his record. Anyone else had broken in and he would have hailed a hero by the NRA for using a gun to stop an intruder.

Forget the NRA. Mr. Maye is a hero to me. He acted to protect his daughter when he had no reason to expect the police to come crashing through his door. I'm surprised he lived to see this day. Black man, Mississippi, on death row, "cop killer." I hate to call this "justice" a miracle, but with all the points against him, yeah, his walking out of jail is pretty miraculous.

# ? Jul 2, 2011 07:38

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Tigntink posted:

I'm very glad to see that. It still makes me angry that he served time at all and he'll always have manslaughter on his record. Anyone else had broken in and he would have hailed a hero by the NRA for using a gun to stop an intruder.

Hell, if he was white he'd be a hero among the more extreme gun people.

# ? Jul 2, 2011 08:10

Countblanc: Apr 20, 2005; _{Help a hero out!}

Does anyone have any sources handy comparing the US treatment of prisoners and similar things to that of other countries? I almost got in an argument the other day before realizing that I actually have no idea how each stacks up. I've heard vague "other countries put more money into rehabilitation" but I don't really know what that means specifically. What are the prison cultures like in other countries, both inside and out?

# ? Jul 7, 2011 19:59

HidingFromGoro: Jun 5, 2006

CA: Inmate hunger strike expands to at least 11 prisons, is latest challenge to brutal CA prison system

e

GA: The return of the convict lease

HidingFromGoro fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Jul 8, 2011

# ? Jul 8, 2011 08:11

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# ? May 28, 2024 21:27

Trogdos!: Jul 11, 2009; A DRAGON POKEMAN
well technically a water/flying type

To give a 'little' contrast, let me say that today I saw in the news that a dangerous prisoner for life has escaped in Finland. While on a permitted walk in the centre of the 16th largest city in Finland.

So uh, hello USA prison system.

# ? Jul 8, 2011 15:22

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