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Nierbo posted:SQUASH THE BEEF, SQUASH THE BEEF. lol kimbo305 posted:I wasn't sure if you had a new question about training space or if it was following the throws conversation above. ah, no, it was just pointless chitchat. Throws and takedowns are fun, sucks I won't get an opportunity to learn or try them out very often. We've done osoto gari in class before and I have tried it a few times when we started from standup, but the guys tend to stay crouched pretty low and I wasn't able to pull it off.
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Jul 4, 2011 23:21
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Whats the tatami like at bjj? Harder than judo gyms use? V Oh poo poo, I had it all wrong. so I'm imagining a thud as you hit the mat as opposed to it giving a bit of leeway. Nierbo fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Jul 5, 2011 |
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Jul 4, 2011 23:54
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Nierbo posted:Whats the tatami like at bjj? Harder than judo gyms use? It's usually wrestling mats which are much softer than judo mats. Really not as fun to fall on as tatami. We use wrestling mat to cover the walls at my dojo and I'm so happy we don't have to fall on that
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Jul 4, 2011 23:59
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KingColliwog posted:It's usually wrestling mats which are much softer than judo mats. Really not as fun to fall on as tatami. We use wrestling mat to cover the walls at my dojo and I'm so happy we don't have to fall on that I like tatami better for groundwork as well. Are wrestling mats just cheaper or more available? Do people prefer wrestling mats?
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Jul 5, 2011 00:44
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Probably cheaper and more available, especially outside of Japan. They have to be flipped, rotated, are pains in the rear end to get properly aligned, etc etc.
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Jul 5, 2011 01:36
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Wrestling mats are easier to clean, I imagine?
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Jul 5, 2011 01:56
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Office Sheep posted:I like tatami better for groundwork as well. Are wrestling mats just cheaper or more available? Do people prefer wrestling mats? I think they are WAY cheaper. Tatami's are so expensive it's ridiculous.
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Jul 5, 2011 02:08
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:Wrestling mats are easier to clean, I imagine? Any tatami you get nowadays is covered with vinyl and can be mopped like any other mat. I am pretty sure it is a cost thing. Outfitting a large area with tatami costs thousands. The best floors are a layer of high density foam blocks covered by plywood with tatami on top. Tires can work alright in place of blocks, but tend to develop dead spots and uneven-ness over time. But once you get used to a sprung floor anything less feels terrible.
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Jul 5, 2011 03:07
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Wrestling mats are usually thinner than tatami as well, I believe. That probably plays a part in why they are cheaper and worse to fall on.
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Jul 5, 2011 03:20
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Thoguh posted:Any tatami you get nowadays is covered with vinyl and can be mopped like any other mat. I am pretty sure it is a cost thing. Outfitting a large area with tatami costs thousands. I've tried to get my club to invest in this too but it's just way too expensive for a small club. Someday when I'm a rich man I'll buy a new floor for my club.
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Jul 5, 2011 03:21
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiR25MgYlTM a magic happens
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Jul 5, 2011 03:34
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Worst floor I've ever experienced was at a tournament up in the twin cities. They used some kind of foam (I think similar to the kind of foam you see in boats) that wasn't very good at all and then covered it with loving canvas. By the end of that tournament everybody was so covered in matburns our faces were hardly recognizable, and while at most tournaments you'll see maybe zero or one injury that requires paramedics, at this tournament there were at least 5. And it wasn't that big of a tournament. The only time I've ever sent a guy to the hospital was at that tournament. He tried an uchi-mata and I countered with a whizzer and then did a tai-o-toshi, and he chose to plant his forehead rather than take the fall. Ended up tearing some ligaments in his neck. That was scary. Thoguh fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Jul 5, 2011 |
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Jul 5, 2011 04:02
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Having trained on all of those discussed, I actually prefer the rubberized wrestling mats. (Although to be fair at my old gym we had our wrestling mats ontop of an additional set of 'old' mats ontop of a bare concrete floor. The nice thing about wrestling mats is that they can be acquired used relatively cheaply. The downside is moving them can be a pain. (They're bulky rolled up and just are'nt stiff at all.) Puzzles mat are not bad if they're set correctly. I've found the thicker ones, while nicer can be a bit more difficult to set. I want to say these were like 1.5" thickness, they were really nice. At my current gym we use the judo tatami, but I've found them to be very rough of the skin. Almost as bad as the canvas covered mats some Aikido places use. Tatami, puzzle mats, wrestling mats, ontop of bare concrete or even just a wood floor are going to hurt. I really think making that subfloor or layers of flooring is the key difference. I've actually been looking into getting a sub floor done for my friend's new school. My only concern is how will it effect our muay thai/kick boxing class. http://www.tatami-mats.com/sub_floors.php http://judoinfo.com/tatami.htm http://www.mygaragedojo.blogspot.com/ Senor P. fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Jul 5, 2011 |
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Jul 5, 2011 05:04
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Senor P. posted:I've actually been looking into getting a sub floor done for my friend's new school. My only concern is how will it effect our muay thai/kick boxing class. A good sprung floor with high density foam will still be fine for kickboxing type stuff. It'll only give noticeably for a big throw. If people are just throwing kicks and punches it'll be pretty much like any other sturdy surface. The floors discussed in those links are magical compared to putting mats on a concrete or wooden floor. I'm surprised about your statement about tatami vs. canvas. Modern tatami is basically just very high density foam covered in vinyl. It will give you matburn same as a wrestling mat will, but I don't think it even compares to the way canvas just tears you up. My biggest issue with wrestling mats is their tendency to lead to sprained ankles on foot sweeps because of how soft they are compared to tatami. Wrestling mats get the job done, especially if you aren't doing a lot of throws, but they are too soft for my tastes. For me the hierarchy of places I've worked with is: sprung floor >>>>>> tatami over wrestling/puzzle mats > bare tatami > gymnastics floor routine area > good, thick puzzle mats > wrestling mats >>>>>>> boxing ring > cheap puzzle mats > carpet/canvas.
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Jul 5, 2011 06:08
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Thoguh posted:I'm surprised about your statement about tatami vs. canvas. Modern tatami is basically just very high density foam covered in vinyl. It will give you matburn same as a wrestling mat will, but I don't think it even compares to the way canvas just tears you up. It might be these mats, or they're new, or maybe its due to the texturing. I just seem to be getting mat burn much more often. I've used some other vinyl covered mats before, but this is the first tatami type I've used.
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Jul 5, 2011 07:14
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Senor P. posted:I've actually been looking into getting a sub floor done for my friend's new school. My only concern is how will it effect our muay thai/kick boxing class. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehb7tfvrXe8 I've dislocated a toe because of puzzle mats like he describes. They're comfortable enough to roll around on, but the cracks and gaps give me the shits. Smegmatron fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Jul 5, 2011 |
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Jul 5, 2011 07:18
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Smegmatron posted:I've dislocated a toe because of puzzle mats like he describes. They're comfortable enough to roll around on, but the cracks and gaps give me the shits. Poorly-fitted tatami can be worse.
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Jul 5, 2011 07:45
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Ok, so here's me: 23, 5'6", 145 lbs, horrendously out of shape to the point of getting winded walking up a few flights of stairs, hardly ever done any serious physical activity in my life... except for a few times when I've taken fitness classes in school and actually made some minor but satisfying gains. Gains which were immediately lost as soon as the class was over, because I am apparently only motivated by going to classes. So, it seems like a martial arts class could be pretty great for me. I want to get fit, and my friends who do BJJ say it's awesome for them. HOWEVER, I worry that I am too out of shape to actually begin- like, I would need to increase my base level of fitness to not get laughed out of the class/beaten savagely. This is PROBABLY all in my head, but it would be nice to get some insiders' perspectives on this. If I show up to, say, a beginner's BJJ class, will they turn me away/expect more of me than my body can give?
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Jul 5, 2011 18:52
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showbiz_liz posted:If I show up to, say, a beginner's BJJ class, will they turn me away/expect more of me than my body can give? You will probably never be turned away. If they push you super hard beyond any reasonable limit, then that is probably not the school for you. And as is mentioned previously in the thread, just get out and get started. Doing BJJ will get you in shape.
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Jul 5, 2011 19:15
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showbiz_liz posted:So, it seems like a martial arts class could be pretty great for me. I want to get fit, and my friends who do BJJ say it's awesome for them. HOWEVER, I worry that I am too out of shape to actually begin- like, I would need to increase my base level of fitness to not get laughed out of the class/beaten savagely. This is PROBABLY all in my head, but it would be nice to get some insiders' perspectives on this. If I show up to, say, a beginner's BJJ class, will they turn me away/expect more of me than my body can give? You'll have soreness in places you never knew existed after the first few times but it's definitely worth it. (It's also great fun)
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Jul 5, 2011 19:24
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showbiz_liz posted:Ok, so here's me: 23, 5'6", 145 lbs, horrendously out of shape to the point of getting winded walking up a few flights of stairs, hardly ever done any serious physical activity in my life... except for a few times when I've taken fitness classes in school and actually made some minor but satisfying gains. Gains which were immediately lost as soon as the class was over, because I am apparently only motivated by going to classes. No, they are used to/expecting you to be a beginner in both expertise AND fitness, that's why it's called a "beginner's" class. Any school that would belittle you or force you to do more than you're physically capable of isn't worth training at anyway. Just go.
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Jul 5, 2011 19:32
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showbiz_liz posted:So, it seems like a martial arts class could be pretty great for me. I want to get fit, and my friends who do BJJ say it's awesome for them. HOWEVER, I worry that I am too out of shape to actually begin- like, I would need to increase my base level of fitness to not get laughed out of the class/beaten savagely. This is PROBABLY all in my head, but it would be nice to get some insiders' perspectives on this. If I show up to, say, a beginner's BJJ class, will they turn me away/expect more of me than my body can give? You could be marathon-runner levels of fit and you will still be embarrassingly bad at BJJ for the first 3-6 months. I can't imagine it would actually happen, but any school that makes you feel bad for being new/bad/unfit isn't worth your time or money anyway. The instructors where I train actually tell the new guys to take it easy for their first few weeks because they don't want people overexerting themselves and blowing out all of the important BJJ muscles that nobody ever uses anywhere else for any reason.
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Jul 5, 2011 21:18
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showbiz_liz posted:stuff As others have said, just go for it. Getting into shape first was what kept me from going back for years. Once I just jumped in I noticed how quickly I adjusted to so much stress. The beginner classes in a lot of MA's I've taken expect nothing but a willingness to participate. Do not let increasing your "base fitness" become an excuse for not doing something great for yourself. A good instructor will know how hard they can push you. If you feel like you start getting off too easy, push yourself harder. You will be given allowances to always be pushing and improving yourself. DO IT!
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Jul 5, 2011 21:29
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showbiz_liz posted:Ok, so here's me: 23, 5'6", 145 lbs, horrendously out of shape to the point of getting winded walking up a few flights of stairs, hardly ever done any serious physical activity in my life... except for a few times when I've taken fitness classes in school and actually made some minor but satisfying gains. Gains which were immediately lost as soon as the class was over, because I am apparently only motivated by going to classes. I weighed like 280 when I started jiu jitsu and obviously it's harder to do something physical when you're way to(big/small) but you'll get over it quickly. And like everyone else said, if a school turns you away for being out of shape it's not a school you should be at anyway.
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Jul 5, 2011 21:31
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showbiz_liz posted:So, it seems like a martial arts class could be pretty great for me. I want to get fit, and my friends who do BJJ say it's awesome for them. HOWEVER, I worry that I am too out of shape to actually begin- like, I would need to increase my base level of fitness to not get laughed out of the class/beaten savagely. This is PROBABLY all in my head, but it would be nice to get some insiders' perspectives on this. If I show up to, say, a beginner's BJJ class, will they turn me away/expect more of me than my body can give? It's the best thing you can do for yourself. Also no one will care that you are horribly unfit, most people in the beginners class tend to be. Doing some competitive martial arts like BJJ will also give you additional motivation to do some conditioning. One of my friend who was similar to you (5'9, around 140 pounds of bones and skin) started judo 3 months ago and he really wasn't into sports at all. Now he will come to the gym with me because he has a motivation to do so.
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Jul 5, 2011 21:31
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I was an out of shape fatty mc fat fat when I started and I was ok. I was pretty sore after classes the first few months. But thats to be expected as my body wasn't too used to using alot of the muscles that are used in BJJ (especially neck, and core muscles) Like everyone else mentioned, no one is going to FORCE you to work until you puke, and if they did, you dont want to be at that gym. I put off BJJ for at least a year and the half because I was "waiting until I was in shape" to get started. I want that 1.5 years back so bad because I love BJJ and I wish I had started earlier. I would also like to mention that just going to classes really motivated me to improve on my fitness outside of class as well, because I wanted to roll longer and harder with my training buddies. Staying fat and unfit would allow me to roll for maybe 1 minute before being a big wheezy sweaty mess that would be easily swept/submitted.
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Jul 5, 2011 23:37
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Welp, I've got a twice weekly, one on one rehab pilates session for my neck and a rescan in six months to see if I can wrestle again. The physio and pilates have okayed me for waist down exercise that is not jolting or straining neck (so no jumping, jogging, swimming, biking, kicking). Have a video of my first night back if people are interested.
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Jul 6, 2011 01:26
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So, I have some questions on the feasibility of me continuing training. Back in late feb, as I've mentioned before in this thread, I dislocated (anterior) my left shoulder (non dominant). After taking 2 months off (not long enough obviously), I thought I'd go and do some light rolling at a BJJ gi class. During one of the drills (moving out of a triangle attempt into a sort of side control i think), I posted my left arm out overtop my partners body, but at a high enough angle that it popped my shoulder out again. Because the first time I dislocated my shoulder, I landed on it (with my partner ontop of me) chickenwinged (kind of like in a kimura position), I thought as long as I kept my arm tucked in during the roll, and no one attacked it, I should be fine. I didnt realize that I would pop it out by posting my arm out, bad mistake. Talked to a shoulder specialist and he did a test of it where he compared my left and right shoulders and asked me if I felt there was any fear of dislocation, which there was for my left shoulder when he started to move it further and further behind me. With this, he concluded that I need Bankart lesion repair for my shoulder in order to fully rehab it. He put me on the waitlist for the surgery, which unfortunately, is over a year waitlist here in Canada to do it. Now, if I was to go ultra conservative on this, what would happen is that I would not do any training for the next year, get my surgery, then I would be in a sling for a month, not be able to do any wait training for 3 months, and then finally be able to do BJJ in 6 months. Once that 6 months is up however, Ill be going away on training (im in the Army Reserves here in Canada) for 4 months. This gives me a grand total of 2 years before I'd be able to train again. Now, couple this with another issue is that this 4 month course, I will need to be in extremely good shape to do my best in. I worry that a 6 month recovery, with no weight training for 3 of those months might severely hamper my physical fitness to do this course, so that means I may not even be able to opt into this surgery until AFTER this course. So, I made some posts in other forums and many have suggested simply rolling much more carefully, maybe even one armed holding my belt. While I really can't stand being away from training anymore, I also can't jeopardize getting injured again and losing my ability to stay in shape for my Army courses coming up. From what the shoulder specialist said, basically any time my arm is up above my shoulder line, and pressure is pushing my shoulder backwards, that is a good chance of dislocation. As well as the aforementioned awkward chickenwinging, those seem to be the only ways I could dislocate it again. I really need more advice from people who not only know shoulder injuries, BUT also grappling sports as well because I need more info to balance out the chance of injuries and well, training for a sport I love. I guess my question is exactly how likely is another dislocation if I only do drills, and maybe roll lightly with an instructor or someone I trust only. I mean, accidents happen, so I know I cant ultimately eliminate any risk but still, I love BJJ and MMA training too much to quit for up to 2-3 years for something that seems very basic in terms of injuries. I'm currently back into weight training, sans lifts heavy above my head, and I also do rotator cuff strengthening exercises given to me by a physiotherapist. As well I'm taking chondroitin and glucosamine to strengthen those ligaments there. swagger like us fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Jul 6, 2011 |
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Jul 6, 2011 02:16
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I don't have a solution to your problem, but whoever bought you that avatar text is an rear end in a top hat. e: V oh good. Nierbo fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Jul 6, 2011 |
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Jul 6, 2011 04:13
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Nierbo posted:I don't have a solution to your problem, but whoever bought you that avatar text is an rear end in a top hat. hahaha thats actually really funny, someone gave me that years ago over a comment on a youtube video, nothing to do with my current shoulder issue. Funny how it looks related right now.
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Jul 6, 2011 04:21
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Went to another club for the first time today. Instructor has one of those fancy white and red belt and seems to know his stuff quite a bit. Also The majority of students are brown and black belts which is always nice. They just moved to a new space so the mats weren't ready yet (only the padding that goes below it, which was covered in some vinyl) so we only did groundwork and I learned a few new neat tricks. Also turns out I'm pretty freaking flexible. I knew it since my usual coach calls me rubberman, well during my second randori the coach passes by and goes "well, you're quite flexible, that's a good thing" or something like that. It made me feel all fuzy inside. Anyway, there's a japanese dude that trains there and he only speaks japanese and english (I'm in Quebec) it was his birthday and it was celebrated by him being thrown by everyone one after the other. I thought it was a cool idea. TLDR new club seems cool but much more expensive than my old (ridiculous cheap) one. --- gently caress swagger  I don't know what to tell you, I was one of the guys who told you to stop for a very loving long time after a dislocation before the second one happens fast and then you're very susceptible to a third [...]. It sucks so much that the worst actually happened to you. I really don't know what to tell you, this will all be about juggling with the risks. I have no idea what I would do in your situation, best of luck
KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Jul 6, 2011 |
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Jul 6, 2011 04:22
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KingColliwog posted:Instructor has one of those fancy white and red belt and seems to know his stuff quite a bit. Yeah, those 6th Dans may know a few tricks.
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Jul 6, 2011 04:43
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swmmrmanshen posted:Yeah, those 6th Dans may know a few tricks. I guess. Looking at his pedigree on the club website and he was a referee at the sydney Olympics in 2000, that's pretty cool too.
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Jul 6, 2011 04:58
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Grappling arts are ridiculously hard on the body. I don't know what to say other than that. I seem to get hurt even when making a conscious effort to roll lightly, so I don't know if that is really an option for you. What about taking up striking, where there is no pressure in the form you described causing it to pop?
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Jul 6, 2011 06:19
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KingColliwog posted:I guess. Looking at his pedigree on the club website and he was a referee at the sydney Olympics in 2000, that's pretty cool too. Never trust a ref
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Jul 6, 2011 07:12
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Ridleys Revenge posted:Never trust a ref What are you talking about? Its the best way to get your black belt.
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Jul 6, 2011 07:37
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In some martial arts/regions, refereeing/managing tournaments/teaching are all requirements for ranking up past a certain point.
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Jul 6, 2011 07:44
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imtheism posted:Grappling arts are ridiculously hard on the body. I don't know what to say other than that. I seem to get hurt even when making a conscious effort to roll lightly, so I don't know if that is really an option for you. Im worried however with clinching, and especially left hooks and overhand lefts being an issue because they put my shoulder in a pretty vulnerable position (I asked the shoulder specialist and demonstrated the position my arm would be in with a left hook and he said it could be a real risk). We'll see, I've been doing some bag work with basic jab combos and footwork, and maybe Ill get back into light sparring and boxing training, we'll see.
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Jul 6, 2011 08:07
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Nierbo posted:What are you talking about? Its the best way to get your black belt. Those aren't really legit, real judoka only recognize black belts awarded by the Kano family.
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Jul 6, 2011 08:34
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swagger like us posted:Im worried however with clinching, and especially left hooks and overhand lefts being an issue because they put my shoulder in a pretty vulnerable position (I asked the shoulder specialist and demonstrated the position my arm would be in with a left hook and he said it could be a real risk). We'll see, I've been doing some bag work with basic jab combos and footwork, and maybe Ill get back into light sparring and boxing training, we'll see. hey i've gone through that bankart lesion repair twice on my left (non-dominant) shoulder. grappling is just really rough on it so i took up boxing and muay thai, except i box southpaw and only use my left for straights and uppercuts. i have the same problem with left hooks, my shoulder is too jacked up for them. give southpaw a try imo.
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Jul 6, 2011 08:56
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