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LordMune posted:The character designer of Idolmaster is directing the new Berserk anime. Which will be distributed by Warner Brothers. So... maybe the references to playing Idolmaster were just hints of the fact that a person involved in Idolmaster was in talks to help with Berserk's movie? Makes a little sense. EDIT: To think about it, the extra delays jokingly appropriated to Idolmaster could of just been Miura in meetings with executives, fighting tooth and nail not to have the movie made into a PG-13 Buddy Comedy with a talking dog. In CG.
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Jul 5, 2011 18:48
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yaay posted:where are they starting plot-wise though? I really hate the prospect of waiting fifteen years after the original series to be told 'gently caress it, the first season is gonna be a prologue aaaaalll over again!'
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Jul 5, 2011 19:03
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Wait, do we know if its a full series or a movie or what?
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Jul 6, 2011 00:34
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yaay posted:where are they starting plot-wise though? I really hate the prospect of waiting fifteen years after the original series to be told 'gently caress it, the first season is gonna be a prologue aaaaalll over again!' I'd really be happy if they just started at Volume 1 and fit the first 3 volumes into the movie. The part of volume 1 that was animated before was all hosed up and didn't follow the manga at all. I'd like to see Puck introduced properly, and see it end after Guts kills the slug apostle and meets Femto. We'll see, of course, but I think they'd be doing fans a huge disservice if that all got skipped.
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Jul 6, 2011 00:48
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KoB posted:Wait, do we know if its a full series or a movie or what? Series of movies.
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Jul 6, 2011 00:54
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Demicol posted:Series of movies. Oh lovely, if it follows the usual Berserk schedule it'll take even longer to get out than the Eva movies.
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Jul 6, 2011 04:11
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The first movie comes out in January of 2012. I'm guessing from the screenshot that was included in the newest Young Animal that it will be covering the Golden Age up until the part where Guts leaves the Band of the Hawk.
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Jul 7, 2011 01:21
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I really have no desire to watch that, even if it's completely faithful to the manga. Everything pre-clusterfuck just comes across as so pointless after you've read through.
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Jul 7, 2011 02:13
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They do need to show exactly how Guts became such an unstoppable badass and why his relationships with Griffith and Caska matter at all, though. I think the first 3 volumes may be too little content for one movie if they are trying to cover everything.
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Jul 7, 2011 02:44
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yaay posted:I really have no desire to watch that, even if it's completely faithful to the manga. Everything pre-clusterfuck just comes across as so pointless after you've read through. Guts wouldn't see it as pointless, I'd figure that's what Miura would want us to understand.
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Jul 7, 2011 02:50
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The Golden Age is definitely the most marketable part of the series. Classic medieval military fantasy with elements of the supernatural gradually coming into the picture. It's the kind of stuff that makes Game of Thrones so interesting and it'll serve as a great way to get new people into the series. The first 3 volumes adapted faithfully would please the people who are already fans and especially the purists, but it's not actually a very interesting story. It's just Guts going around being mad and killing demons and Puck freaking out. They can adapt those volumes after the Golden Age is done, perhaps in the 3rd movie. I wouldn't be annoyed if they just cut it completely though. The first 3 volumes are when Miura was still unsure about where the story was headed, and they're pretty inferior. Maybe just have short scenes showing Guts take down the 2 first apostles in scenes before the 3rd or 4th movie title, which I'm expecting to cover Guts finally as The Black Swordsman. Then the meat of that movie could be Guts fighting Rosine and clashing with Farnese' knights. A first movie beginning at volume 4 and going until the end of volume 8 would allow for a fairly comprehensive showing of Guts, Caska, and Griffith's relationship. The fight with Zodd could be the mid-movie moment of real excitement, and then the fight between Guts and Griffith could finish the movie off. That leads into a much darker second movie. In fact I hope the do it this way. I'm getting a real sense of how it could work.
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Jul 7, 2011 04:35
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Ccs posted:The Golden Age is definitely the most marketable part of the series. Classic medieval military fantasy with elements of the supernatural gradually coming into the picture. It's the kind of stuff that makes Game of Thrones so interesting and it'll serve as a great way to get new people into the series. The first three volumes give us a taste of Guts, his adversaries, and his past. I like when the little girl who was the daughter of the Governor turned Apostle, gave Guts that mean stare, and said 'It's all your fault', and though we as readers don't know it yet, this reminded Guts of Casca, to the point where he starts crying too. Holy cow The Misty Valley arc would make an AWESOME feature now that you mention it. It especially illustrates the kinds of horrific things Guts does and gets blamed for in his pursuit of Apostles. There's something to be said about the way a story is written, where the hero kills children, and we're still rooting for him. Thinking about that takes me back to the Golden Age, when Griffith gave Guts the job of killing the Kings brother. Whether or not Miura really plotted every detail and milestone, there's a noticeable progression. Like Griffith, Guts has a lot of guilt to carry, and yet he is unrepentant. There is nothing to be gained in lamenting over what has been done.
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Jul 7, 2011 06:07
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 Shots from the newest Young Animal promoting the movie.
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Jul 7, 2011 16:24
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A.S.H. posted:Thinking about that takes me back to the Golden Age, when Griffith gave Guts the job of killing the Kings brother. Whether or not Miura really plotted every detail and milestone, there's a noticeable progression. Like Griffith, Guts has a lot of guilt to carry, and yet he is unrepentant. There is nothing to be gained in lamenting over what has been done. That was political intrigue. While it isn't the same as traditional battlefield it's still just as dangerous considering the guy attempted to poison Griffith. He has no more guilt over that one than killing a knight attacking Griffith on the battlefield. Griffith on the other hand does feel guilt, he decided to take more of the burden upon himself whenever possible. Sleeping with the fat governor was just one way of preventing another little kid from dying on the battlefield. YouTuber fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jul 7, 2011 |
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Jul 7, 2011 21:52
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YouTuber posted:He has no more guilt over that one than killing a knight attacking Griffith on the battlefield. Guts does bear some guilt, and it shows. Killing kids was never something he signed up for, referring back to the assassination plot Griffith devised in retaliation for the sniper attack. Hell, Guts still feels guilty for killing Gambino, his abusive adoptive father figure, even knowing the guy was going to kill him. Guts dreams reflect this guilt, the survivors guilt.
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Jul 7, 2011 23:03
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Guts abandoned the Hawks. He had reasons but we see the story from his point of view, not Caska or Griffith or the Hawks when they were fighting for their lives over that year. All because Guts had to do his own thing.
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Jul 8, 2011 04:39
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The reason he did his own thing and the reason he followed the Hawks were pretty mingled in the first place though. He was there because he respected Griffith and thought they were friends. He left because he respected Griffith and heard his speech about not being able to truly respect someone who lives for someone else's dreams.
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Jul 8, 2011 06:09
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Yeah, it's Griffith's fault for being a dumbass and sleeping with the King's daughter cause he lost the duel with Guts. Griffith is a complex character but he's still evil. Anyway more pics of from the magazine movie info thing:   
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Jul 8, 2011 06:14
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I like the only two pictures of Caska is of her crying. :O
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Jul 8, 2011 15:10
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Tormented posted:I like the only two pictures of Caska is of her crying. :O I noticed that too. A strong female character? Better downplay that til the release. Would you consider Caska a strong female character, actually? I'm not sure if I would. She's set up like that, but then she's there exclusively to execute Griffith's will, then is in love with Guts, or something, and then gets raped literally retarded. I'm actually kind of uncomfortable with the idea that rape may or may not play a part in her characterization. I really dunno what to think 
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Jul 8, 2011 15:50
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At least you're like, supposed to be extremely uncomfortable with it. And she comes across as a pretty strong character when they're out to rescue Griffith I think.
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Jul 8, 2011 15:53
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She saw all of her friends eaten and killed by monsters, see's one of the people she loves turn into a monster and who is directly responsible for this and then he rapes her. That would be enough to break most peoples minds
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Jul 8, 2011 15:55
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The only reason Guts didn't lose it is probably because of his own physical and metaphysical nature. He was marked in his own way since "birth", and as we all know, he's pretty much representative of a sort of ubermensch. He didn't stay sane because he's a man, he stayed sane because he pretty much the avatar of violence and rage when you get down to it. That's also why Slann is so obsessed with him. His nature for the longest time reflects much on her own, as well as the "domain" of her influence. Hence why she'd do silly poo poo like summon an avatar of meat just for him to stab to death. God Hand are weird.
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Jul 8, 2011 17:15
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Plus he struggles with his sanity in the form of that demon dog thing.
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Jul 8, 2011 17:29
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I haven't read the manga, but watch I gathered from the anime was the Guts is kinda outside the influence of fate because he was a stillborn. It's why he's directionless until Griffith forces him into service.
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Jul 8, 2011 21:16
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Azubah posted:I haven't read the manga  till you have. There's no point discussing something you no nothing about. The anime doesn't cover much and takes quite a few liberties with what it does cover.
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Jul 8, 2011 21:45
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DamnGlitch posted:I noticed that too. A strong female character? Better downplay that til the release. Well, he tries to make her a strong female character but I have to agree that it seems that, no matter how strong, she is portrayed, the situation always makes her the victim. And this should be the next new thread title: Berserk: Raped literally retarded Tormented fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jul 8, 2011 |
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Jul 8, 2011 21:47
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How much of that is Miura's fault? How much of that is simply realistic from the view point of a feudal world? Yes Miura wrote the story, but what choices do most women have growing up the way she did? From the very beginning Casca's story is that of a peasant woman. Born in a border village under threat from bandits or skirmishes between military outfits, with little food to go around. Because she isn't able to the do work of a man in the fields, the girl is given up to a passing noble on vacation for sexual escapades. Then someone comes along and gives her a sword, and when she uses it to defend herself, Casca decides to defend the person who gave her the means. Whether or not it fits into a feminist view of a strong female character, it seems very human at least.
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Jul 8, 2011 22:22
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Considering he wrote the story, all if it is his fault. Why is a misogynistic portrayal of women necessary to fit the realism of the time period? I mean you have a whole bunch of giant rear end weird rear end monsters and poo poo you'd think that maybe since you're taking so many liberties with realism in other areas you could do the same with women. I don't remember the beginning of berserk too well since it was so drat long ago but I'm pretty sure Caska was like the only important female character for a long rear end time. And what happens to her? She gets sold into sex slavery, she gets into a fight where the author makes sure to mention how her body was actively working against her because she's a woman, then she gets raped, and now she's completely incompetent and it seems like she only exists because getting her back to normal is Guts's ~final challenge~ and so she can look after a kid or whatever. Oh yeah it's all coming back to me now. She almost gets raped by that group of dudes in some forest but then Mr. Big Strong Man comes to save her and what a surprise he almost rapes her too. Then there's Farnese (I think) who almost gets raped by a horse but thankfully Mr. BSM is there to save her. Then there's the side characters who only exist to get raped by monsters. I'm pretty sure this happened more than once, but I can only remember one instance of it. I don't remember enough about this particular scene to describe it without sounding like I'm summarizing the entire series though. Rape rape rape rape rape. Miura loving hates women.
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Jul 8, 2011 23:16
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You know that Miura isn't actually advocating the poo poo that happens in loving BERSERK right? Plus literally everyone gets raped, Mr. Big Strong Man is the way he loving is because his dad let him get raped. Also Guts now has a lot of girls in his party and they're likable and nothing terrible has happened in quite some time! Rakugoon fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jul 8, 2011 |
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Jul 8, 2011 23:20
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Guts got raped (at least once) and Griffith got sort of raped, sort of sold his body because he had no other option.
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Jul 8, 2011 23:22
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Rakugoon posted:You know that Miura isn't actually advocating the poo poo that happens in loving BERSERK right? Yeah Elysiume posted:Guts got raped (at least once) and Griffith got sort of raped, sort of sold his body because he had no other option. Forgot about Griffith but yeah. I was about to ask what happened to Guts for a minute but then I started wondering how I forgot about that poo poo. Was he an important character (before rape was used as character development) or just some nameless grunt in Gambino's group? Not that that changes anything, I'm just wondering. e: quote:Also Guts now has a lot of girls in his party and they're likable and nothing terrible has happened in quite some time! Yeah it's pretty refreshing. I'm not even gonna try to spell the mage girl's name but she's pretty interesting and one of the most important characters right now. Farnese as a mage is also looking to be pretty neat. I just hope none of the bad poo poo that's been so frequent in the series makes a return. bofa salesman fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Jul 8, 2011 |
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Jul 8, 2011 23:27
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Hell, remember the Trolls that were raping and killing everything? If you pay attention, they're equal opportunity rapists.Frome posted:Was he an important character (before rape was used as character development) or just some nameless grunt in Gambino's group? Not that that changes anything, I'm just wondering. Uhhh yes. Guts killed him even, remember? And he's still haunted by him in his nightmares.
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Jul 8, 2011 23:32
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Frome posted:Considering he wrote the story, all if it is his fault. Why is a misogynistic portrayal of women necessary to fit the realism of the time period? I mean you have a whole bunch of giant rear end weird rear end monsters and poo poo you'd think that maybe since you're taking so many liberties with realism in other areas you could do the same with women. Uh... no? The whole convergence of fantastical and realism is one of the central themes of Berserk. It's not like other fantasy stories where it's just "BTW dragons." The weird monsters are literally a plot point.
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Jul 8, 2011 23:37
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Zorak posted:Hell, remember the Trolls that were raping and killing everything? If you pay attention, they're equal opportunity rapists. Yeah, I remember. I just meant was it more of an "oh poo poo what's 'dude's name' doing moment" or a "oh poo poo what's this ugly dude doing" moment. OnimaruXLR posted:Uh... no? The whole convergence of fantastical and realism is one of the central themes of Berserk. It's not like other fantasy stories where it's just "BTW dragons." The weird monsters are literally a plot point. Why is misogyny one of the realistic elements that has to be included in the story though? They can still have this convergence and leave out all the rape and a single period resulting what the heroes initially thought was a pyrrhic victory and it wouldn't set off any suspension of disbelief alarm bells or anything.
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Jul 8, 2011 23:47
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I think the point is that everyone in the manga gets hosed, one way or the other. Women get raped, children get enslaved, men die in battle or eaten by monsters. That's just part of the whole "dark fantasy" thing. Nearly every single character is deeply hosed up in some way, regardless of gender. Also if you want a strong female character in Berserk, then just remember Luca. She's a prostitute, but she's still has more fortitude and intelligence than almost all the main characters. She pretty much turns misogyny on its head. And of course there's Schierke, and Farnese is shaping up pretty well. Hell, Farnese probably has the most perverse backstory, but her character development makes her really interesting. ANIME AKBAR fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Jul 9, 2011 |
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Jul 9, 2011 00:04
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I'm really having trouble understanding how you're equating events in the plot with Miura is misogynist. First of all, there is lots of sexual assault/rape, but it's not limited to women. Hell, Guts was raped and Griffith sold himself reluctantly. Secondly, I really struggle to see how you look at Caska in this way:Frome posted:I don't remember the beginning of berserk too well since it was so drat long ago but I'm pretty sure Caska was like the only important female character for a long rear end time. And what happens to her? She gets sold into sex slavery, she gets into a fight where the author makes sure to mention how her body was actively working against her because she's a woman, then she gets raped, and now she's completely incompetent and it seems like she only exists because getting her back to normal is Guts's ~final challenge~ and so she can look after a kid or whatever. Oh yeah it's all coming back to me now. She almost gets raped by that group of dudes in some forest but then Mr. Big Strong Man comes to save her and what a surprise he almost rapes her too. So the fact that she is second only to Griffith before Guts came along means nothing? That she is quite clearly a highly capable mercenary who has great fighting skills means jack poo poo because Miura happens to note that she's female, and that this fact means Caska is at a disadvantage in a field dominated by men? And let's overlook the entire, complex relationship between Guts and Caska and Griffith, and just paint her as a MacGuffin to be cured, because that's obviously the only thing that Miura was going for there, right? Not to mention, let's also overlook Flora and Schierke and Farnese and their character growth and development and power, and let's also just ignore Sonia in Griffith's crew as well, since, you know, she's not a great big hulking strong man like Zodd.
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Jul 9, 2011 00:05
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I can understand that you find the rape unpleasant, but that's kind of the point. Berserk is about struggling to make your way through a nightmarish hosed up world with as much of your humanity intact as possible. That's true whether you're a hooker with a heart of gold, a 300 pound of pure muscle with an intensely phallic sword, a tiny wizard girl, a passive aggressive foppish master swordsman, a creepy sadist apprentice magician, whatever. Besides, if we assume that Miura has beef with everyone that horrible things happen to in Berserk, then that would mean he hates men, women, rich people, poor people, children, old people, European people, Indian people, politicians, soldiers, horses, dogs...
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Jul 9, 2011 00:07
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Frome posted:Yeah, I remember. I just meant was it more of an "oh poo poo what's 'dude's name' doing moment" or a "oh poo poo what's this ugly dude doing" moment. Frome posted:Yeah, I remember. I just meant was it more of an "oh poo poo what's 'dude's name' doing moment" or a "oh poo poo what's this ugly dude doing" moment. No one here, nor the author, seems to be condoning misogyny or glorifying rape. The sexual abuse the main characters have experienced are not gratuitous, they impact how they have developed and how they maintain their relationships with people. Far too many fantasy stories reduce sexuality to lovely harlequin romance, rather than depicting it in a realistic light. Not all depictions of human sexuality are non-consensual, and what's refreshing is that none of them are overly romanticized. Guts has to get over his fear of physical intimacy, and also ends up being too rough, but it's not like Casca felt violated. Griffith took the princess' virginity in a rather brutal fashion, but it wasn't as simple as a straight out rape. Berserk has strong female characters, hell, Casca was downright badass until she went shell-shocked. They exist in a world where they are culturally below men, but that's true of most women around the world right now. Being a rape victim himself, Guts is unique in that not only is he a macho male, but he is able to be more emphatic than most characters of his type in this genre. If you left out rape from the story, you'd lose that kind of character depth. The depiction of misogyny, extreme violence, and power over the weak helps draw parallels between the monstrous nature of people like Guts' rapist, and the apostles that he fights. These people and creatures have no regard for the life of their victims, and at one point, they show female prisoners basically being farmed for demonic birth and their corpses merely let to drop and rot unceremoniously. This is very disturbing, probably the one scene in this series to actually make me feel physically uncomfortable reading. However, because of this, the reader feels scorn for the apostles that they would otherwise not feel if all they were doing was locking up women in cages or leaving them on train-tracks. A cheap shock trick, maybe, but it's effective and it doesn't feel like there is a misogynist message being conveyed. The world of Berserk is fantasy, but is based on a time period where serfdom still reigns, and women (and children) were second class citizens. This does give the series more realism in the historical context of it's setting, but it also serves to allow the author to depict human nature as it realistically occurs. If you want sex-equality literature, you are best off reading light fantasy or sticking to sci-fi, where the idea is more better depicted. As far as I'm concerned, Miura has lightened the tone of the series as it goes, perhaps this is a reflection of how his world view changes as he ages, he did start this series about 21 years ago. edit: beaten by 3 posts, gently caress me.
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Jul 9, 2011 00:23
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Caska's current state is more about having whole life ripped from her, right down to her womb producing a demon child. Guts had plenty of batshit insane moments, its okay if Caska is hosed up too. She said she would disappear if something ever happened to the Hawks. She has. If you see her state as being hosed crazy, maybe that says something about you. I'm tired of the tough girl idea of feminism. Its okay to have female characters that are weak. I think Farnese is probably a stronger character because she was so weak. temple fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Jul 9, 2011 |
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Jul 9, 2011 00:29
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