|
RivensBitch posted:We should add this to the OP: Done
|
#
?
May 26, 2011 00:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 17:12 |
|
|
gotly posted:Yeah basically I play Bass and Guitar and want to record some samples into each other. All I need is Sample 1 + Sample 2 + level controls. I'm not producing anything worthwhile, just ideas. Tried fixing this with ASIO4ALL but the delay is still too long. Here's what I'm doing: Recording bass into existing tracks. I'm using an XLR to 1/8" converter to get a line level signal right out of the back of my amp head. This sounds awesome but it's annoying to line up the two tracks after recording in Audacity. I'd rather just press record on Audacity. I'm willing to buy hardware/software to make this happen. Any suggestions? My guess is I need a new sound card. The one I have right now is a "gaming" soundcard (Barracuda AC-1  ) and doesn't have any support.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2011 03:30
|
|
|
I'm going to do some basic acoustic guitar recordings with a guy on Saturday, in my living room. I almost never record acoustic instruments - what's the basic cheat sheet for mic placement and type? I was thinking about sticking a nice condenser about a foot or so back from the soundhole, but should you also aim something at the neck or whatever?
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2011 15:55
|
|
|
20 cms from the 12th section? of the arm, I don't know what the word for it is in english. It's usually okay there. If you have another condenser, try putting it at his ear level, facing downards towrds the front of the guitar. Fret? yeah 12th fret.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2011 22:52
|
|
|
Elijah Snow posted:20 cms from the 12th section? of the arm, I don't know what the word for it is in english. It's usually okay there. If you have another condenser, try putting it at his ear level, facing downards towrds the front of the guitar. It depends on the guitar really but more often than not putting the condenser where the player's ears are located is going to create a guitar sound that the player is going to like - since that's what he or she is used to hearing - but if she's monitoring anything, like, say, a click track, then you need a way to keep the headphones from bleeding into the microphone. I usually monitor with earbuds and then put gun mufflers over those. The problem, then, is keeping it so you dont hit the mic or the mic stand with the ear gear. As a player, this can get kind of frustrating. If you have a way to isolate the sound from the microphone from the sound of the guy playing all while being able to move the microphone around, I'd definitely do that, since it's kind of subjective as to where it sounds best, and that might change depending on the rest of the song's arrangement. I think if I were recording acoustic again I'd try to get some room ambiance as well by placing a couple microphones in different parts of the room as well. You could get some nice sound by hard panning the ambient microphones and leaving the main mic somewhere more central, if you have a nice-sounding room at least. Also, try to get your player to keep in mind the percussive aspects of the instrument, and to play with a lighter right hand than normal, or at least to try to keep the dynamics attenuated. Compression on an acoustic can get really obvious and distracting, really quickly.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2011 03:22
|
|
|
Edit: Ugh this choice is confusing me so much. Here's Turramurra's range of USB interfaces. I would rate my budget for an interface between AUD$200-300. Any recommendations from the stock in there? If any are particularly good with recording acoustic guitar by mic, that would be very helpful. On the subject of mics, any well rated cheap condenser mics I should get for acoustic guitar? I wouldn't rate that budget higher than AUD$150. Thanks in advance. Chroisman fucked around with this message at 13:48 on May 27, 2011 |
|
#
?
May 27, 2011 11:51
|
|
|
If you could double that for AUD$300 you could buy an Oktava MK-012 or a Studio Projects C1, cheaper than those I can't think of a mic I'd use, not that I have much experience but there ya go. For AUD$150 it'll be hard.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2011 15:19
|
|
|
The Focusrite Saffire 6 ($239) may be worth checking out. I own a Liquid Saffire 56 (more inputs/outputs and other bells and whistles) but I assume the pre-amps are the same throughout the Saffire range. Very clean and usable. Also, if you haven't already, you should check out the best entry-level audio interface thread.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2011 04:45
|
|
|
Elijah Snow posted:If you could double that for AUD$300 you could buy an Oktava MK-012 or a Studio Projects C1, cheaper than those I can't think of a mic I'd use, not that I have much experience but there ya go. I don't reckon I could go up that far. Do you (or anyone else) have any experience with the AKG Perception 120? That's $200; I don't know how much of a difference that would make. A Good Critique posted:The Focusrite Saffire 6 ($239) may be worth checking out. I own a Liquid Saffire 56 (more inputs/outputs and other bells and whistles) but I assume the pre-amps are the same throughout the Saffire range. Very clean and usable. Thanks for your help so far. Turramurra was a good suggestion. The Focusrite seems to look OK, but I've noticed that quite a few of these interfaces use USB 1.1. Is this an issue/what effects does this have on recording?
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2011 11:30
|
|
|
Chroisman posted:Thanks for your help so far. Turramurra was a good suggestion. The Focusrite seems to look OK, but I've noticed that quite a few of these interfaces use USB 1.1. Is this an issue/what effects does this have on recording?
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2011 12:56
|
|
|
A Good Critique posted:Given that these interfaces are streaming such few channels at once, I don't think them being USB 1.1 would have a noticeable effect on performance. It isn't like the interfaces predate USB 2.0, so I'm guessing it's just a case of the designers deciding that the USB 2.0 protocol wouldn't be necessary with such few ins/outs. If USB 1.1 wasn't enough for these interfaces, you'd probably see complaints in just about every review. Ah, alright. Thanks very much for the help. I'm still churning through the entry level interface thread, but I think I'm starting to lean towards either the Saffire 6 or maybe a Lexicon.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2011 14:04
|
|
|
Whats folks recomendation for restoring old lovely recordings. Just got passed some MP3s from my old guitarist of an old spazzcore band I was in in the mid 90s and its in reasonable nick for a cassette tape recording based off some old 4 track rehearsal room stuff, but yeah, needs some audio love. At this stage I'm thinking of putting it through some sort of noise reduction filter, but my worry is the drums seem pretty low in the mix (ugh) and the noise floor is pretty high. I know there are some noise filters can sample the ambient noise on the tapes, but I'm not sure what the outcome will be. From there I want to just compress it up a bit to control the gain on the recording (but this must obviously come after the noise reduction), then stuff it through Harbal and try and unfuck what was basically mixed on some paper home stereo speakers back in the day when home studio meant "tascam 4 track cassette". There is also one recording that was actually done in a studio that actually sounds pretty good except the mixer guy was a country music dude who seemed to think it was appropriate to mix the half off key punk vocals about 900 decibals louder than anything else. Not sure what I can do for that except very loving delicate eq + compressor fixage.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2011 16:58
|
|
|
Hey all, making a preliminary post to get some attention on here, since this is a slower moving, lower traffic sub-forum. I'm having some recording problems with my laptop. I'll post a more detailed description of the problem tomorrow morning, but hopefully, this will get the ball rolling on some trouble-shooting. A dell xps built in 2009, windows 7, protools, and an mbox mini. That's the set up. The problem is that when I am recording, in the middle of recording, the program will cease recording and say display an error box that tells me to adjust my buffer limit because its too low, or something. I do as the message says, and the problem still occurs, and tells me I've set it too low.  Anyhoo, I tried using an external hard drive, but the problem is still happening, so... any pointers? Also, I'm gonna get another external hard drive, any suggestions, considering I'll be doing recording and such?
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2011 01:38
|
|
|
What buffer size are you using. It sounds like your computers nuts are hanging out.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2011 08:49
|
|
|
duck monster posted:What buffer size are you using. It sounds like your computers nuts are hanging out. I don't know where my Computers nuts are.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2011 20:13
|
|
|
For simple home recording, is there any purpose for portable multitrack recorders (ie. Tascam DP-004)? Can't you just get an audio interface and record straight to your computer instead? I don't quite understand what you'd use a little multitrack recorder for.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2011 08:51
|
|
|
Okay goons, I'm looking for a usb (or maybe firewire 900) recording solution for myself. I usually record acoustic and vocals, with maybe a tad bit of electric thrown in (coming from a terrible line 6 amp plugged into an iMic). I'm not entirely sure what I need. I know I need a microphone, and if I could get a USB Microphone that could record vocals/acoustic decently, I am okay with sticking with the lovely setup for electric. I wish I had a bigger budget, but I can barely spare $100 right now, so that's my limit. I've looked around and seen the snowball and things such as that, but figured I'd come here for suggestions. I'm not recording anything professional, it's mostly just stuff for youtube, and I figured it's time I invest in something that isn't a laptop microphone  EDIT: upping budget to 150. I'd like to get some sort of Firewire interface with at least one xlr and one line. More XLR would be nice, but at this price range I can't be too picky. I'd like a decent mic in that too. TheBandOffice fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Jun 29, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2011 10:23
|
|
|
krnhotwings posted:For simple home recording, is there any purpose for portable multitrack recorders (ie. Tascam DP-004)? Can't you just get an audio interface and record straight to your computer instead? I don't quite understand what you'd use a little multitrack recorder for. I wrote this a while ago for MY BLOG: 1. The limitation of 4-tracks keeps you, for lack of a better word, honest. You don’t have 8, 16 or 24 tracks to play with, so you have to make the individual parts stronger. It helps eliminate the chaff. And you can always add more stuff once you get into a proper recording studio—it’s almost impossible not to. 2. 4-tracks usually come with a built-in mixer and mic-preamp, which can improve the audio quality. Something can also be said for the sound profile of analog tape as opposed to digital hard disk-based recording, which, without the aid of some fancy outboard gear, sounds like crap. (Computers require a semi-retarded amount of gain to sound nice). 3. Computer sequencers tend to get you watching the screen more than listening to the sound. There’s also a tendency to think more structured, to make the little colored blocks of sound line up perfectly. This isn’t always a good thing. I find myself doing this sometimes, and when that happens I have to force myself to get up and go stand in a different room of the apartment so I can actually listen. 4. 4-tracks are portable, durable and can be used on tour. They also don’t require a whole lot to get up and running–just a mic and a wall outlet. I’ve owned several over the years, and I’m pretty sure that if I were to subject my laptop to the litany of drops, coffee spills and cigarette burns that I’ve put my 4-tracks though, I’d be unable to turn the thing on, much less make music with it. 5. They make great notepads. And their simple, unobtrusive nature makes them ideal for those times you wake up in the middle of the night with a melody and/or cold sweat. 6. Computers, due to their multi-functionality, can be distracting. Email, web surfing, googling the names of your friends, etc. All these things can sap the time you have available. 4-tracks gently require you to focus on the task at hand. 7. The 4-track “sound.” Examples abound, but I’ve always been partial to Winning Losers: A Collection of Home Recordings and Elliot Smith’s first couple of records. Maybe it’s the tape hiss, but I like to think there’s something raw and undiluted that comes through in those recordings that wouldn’t sound the same if they were instead pristine, lavish studio affairs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2011 11:47
|
|
|
And now a question of my own: what is the best way to wire up my Apogee Duet to my Mackie 1202-VLZ3? I'd like to be able to hit a switch on the Mackie and cut out the speakers and output to just headphones during recording to avoid feedback. It seems like the Duet has only a single stereo out. Does this mean I would run out from the Duet to the Mackie, into a regular stereo line-in input and then have that feed into the main out, maybe inserting a headphone amp with a mute/toggle switch on the way out to the amp/monitors? Here's a little diagram of how I have it now: iMac Firewire input to Duet -> Duet stereo 1/4" out to line-in on track 4 of the Mackie -> track 4 summed up into Control Room out -> amp -> monitors. I get sound, but I'm wondering if there isn't a more elegant way to set this up without having to introduce a separate headphone mute/toggle box. Can I use one of these fancy buses to route and then toggle between speakers and headphones straight from the Mackie?
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2011 03:38
|
|
|
Hey music goons, got a quick question! I'm using a Rodes NT1-A condenser microphone tucked into the corner of my room with a down comforter blanket hung along the wall as cheap absorption. It works great and all, but my computer is literally 2 feet from the microphone, and when I'm recording, it picks up the computer's fans. Not a big deal, it's not even really noticeable when the vocals are laid over my track... but I want to know how I should go about eliminating as much of this noise (as well as other ambient noise) as possible. Re-position the mic? Or what about something like this - http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/primacoustic-voxguard-microphone-isolation-panel/430579000000000 ? Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2011 03:03
|
|
|
So here's a tough one. I've googled and I've yet to find an answer for this one. I've found a Digidesign 888/24 IO. Basically, it's 8s ins and outs, and considering I was considering upgrading from 2-tracks to more, it's a nice find. Especially since they seem pretty good price, even now. The problem is that the back (which looks something like this) is proprietary as all hell. So, is it possible to get one of these running on a modern PC, be it Windows, or Mac? If so, would I be locked into Pro Tools?
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 03:56
|
|
|
Carados posted:So, is it possible to get one of these running on a modern PC, be it Windows, or Mac? If so, would I be locked into Pro Tools? Possibly, but you would very much be locked into Pro Tools. It requires a Pro Tools MIX card, d24 audio card, Disk I/O card, or a DSP Farm card to be installed in your computer to even hook it up, unless you only want to use it as a standalone A/D converter. And that's assuming that if you can track down one of those older cards that it actually has drivers for it for a modern OS.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 04:13
|
|
|
HotCanadianChick posted:Possibly, but you would very much be locked into Pro Tools. It requires a Pro Tools MIX card, d24 audio card, Disk I/O card, or a DSP Farm card to be installed in your computer to even hook it up, unless you only want to use it as a standalone A/D converter. Thanks though. Carados fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Jul 7, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 04:14
|
|
|
Almost no audio manufacturer produces a product that has latency or reliability specs equivalent to even an outdated Pro Tools MIX system. The ones that do are all closed systems because USB and Firewire simply aren't fast enough to do it. If you did find a MIX card for free, I'm pretty sure you would be stuck at Pro Tools 6.4 to use it (which probably isn't happy running on anything but 32 bit XP because 7.1 was the first version that worked with Intel Macs so unless you have an old G5 tower running pre-Tiger OSX or OS9 kicking around...).
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 20:54
|
|
|
Yeah just to reiterate, Digidesign designed their own proprietary system because they wanted it to do things that nothing else could do at the time. That interface you have there was designed to work with a PCI card that did all of the mixing and DSP onboard, so back in the late 90s and early 2000s (Pentium2/Pentium3 days) you could record with minimal latency WITH A COMPUTER. There were no USB or Firewire interfaces back then. I used to own two gadget labs 8in 8out interfaces, they each had a single rack space breakout I/O box and a PCI card that they plugged into. If you found just the breakout box by itself today, it would almost be as useless as the PCI card, since they halted driver production at Win98. Even if you fired up an old win98 machine, you still would be stuck at 100+ MS of latency, you would need an external mixer to monitor while recording.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 23:51
|
|
|
Need help goons. I have bought this week: POD HD 300 and Reason 5/Record 1.5 combo. Current setup is pod hooked up to computer via usb and in reason/record I am using the podhd300 sound drivers. Problem I am having is I am having this incredibly loud and annoying crackle sound as if I am disconnecting the jack from a speaker turned all the way up. I fear for my ears. I have no idea what causes it. I tried every buffer size setting I can try. It happens randomly and without warning. It also happens when I am not doing any recording/playing so maybe that can help narrow it down. For what its worth the soundcard on the computer is the onboard motherboard soundcard. Any ideas what I can do to get rid of this problem?
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2011 03:59
|
|
|
Alright, I'll try to make this as detailed as I can, as I think I may have an obvious problem, a possibly lovely equipment problem, and then an actual question for basic drum recording. My roommmate is a super whizbang audio engineer who has tons of gear, so instead of giving me the advice I asked for on "cheap drum recording setup, maybe $200-400," he bestowed upon me the following: Digi002 Rack Shure Beta 52 Kick Mic SM 57 2 Oktawa Overhead Mics ProTools LE8 (current version, have active account) I'm trying to simply get an already excellent sounding kit to sound moderately to totally excellent in ProTools. I bought a $400 MacBook off CL that's just for this setup (stays in the rehearsal space), and it's plenty fast, 7200rpm, and is hooked up to the rack via FireWire. So, I've been testing a lot of different placements with the mics, as I figure it shouldn't be too hard to get a good enough recording to satisfy the project (completing a never-finished 10 song album from my old band that gave up 6 years ago). I have two sets of headphones. One is the standard Vic Firth Isophones, that I wear while actually playing. They simply just provide the click solo'd when I play, as I don't want to sweat on the nice set. The second is a $300-400ish pair of Sony studio monitor headphones (model I'd have to look up out, that was just what he told me they were worth if I broke them). It seems that every mic setup I've tried comes through as too quiet and lacking the full tone of the drums. I've got the kick mic'd through the porthole, with the Beta 52 aimed at the batter head beater patch. The snare is the SM57, mic'd to the top left of the batter side, about 1" above the snare aiming towards the center. The overheads are over the kit, about 7' in the air, pointing down. They're basically over my rack tom/right crash cymbal. I have almost exactly this setup, but just with mics B (pointed down, not crossed), C (snare), and D (kick):  When I keep the levels within 80% of max (before it clips), the resulting playback sounds muffled and very....lovely. It's lacking treble, and it sounds like just a room mic from 10 feet away. However, nothing is clipping and I've EQ'd each track to get a decent sound. But again...it doesn't sound clear. My roommate is very adamant about never recording any "raw" tracks that clip, as you're losing part of the audio when it does. If I turn the input's gain up to the point where the sound I'm getting through the headphones is exactly what I'm hoping to have on the recording, it's maxing out probably 5 times over. It sounds good through the headphones, but is just a solid block of WAV if recorded. Even if I turn down the track in the mix before recording, it still either clips out or falls in to that muffled territory that I'm trying to avoid. I've used Cubase and PTLE8 before to edit already recorded tracks, but I'm new to doing mic placement and levels myself. I know that I could just compress the mics and have a nice blocky-looking track that sounds like what I'm hearing in the headphones, but that's obvious not what I'm going for. So, I would be forever in debt to those of you who can advise me on how to not have my drum tracks sound like poo poo. I have 3 questions, and I can almost guarantee it's just me not knowing poo poo about how to properly set levels yet. 1. Is it really possible to gauge the quality of a track using just headphones plugged in to the rack? I ask because I think that maybe if I had powered monitors playing what I recorded much louder, I could easily find the right balance. 2. Is compression on the snare really as evil as a lot of people make it out to be? I've seen plenty of debates about compression, but so far the only snare sound I can get to track that matches its actual sound is when it's clipping or compressed. 3. Can I get respectable guitar sounds plugging directly in to the Digi002 and using on of the plug-ins or amp mods? Every guitar I've tried (6 so far) is again muffled and has a fuckton of background noise. Any advice I can get would be awesome. I can take a picture of the setup if it would help. The kit is a custom maple blahblah and sounds incredible, and I've got the best "recording" cymbals set up for this (at least in my opinion). If it matters, the cymbals are: 18" Meinl Byzance Crash 18" A Custom Projection Crash 14" New Beat Hats/15" Istanbul Hats (not mine, but sound killer) 21" A Rock Ride I've watched videos on how to mic, where to place mics, and I definitely should be able to get good sounds out of this. But...I'm failing miserably. It's weird that I'm pretty competent at editing and EQ'ing/mixing what's already recorded, but horrible at setting up the gear to record on my own. Help. Please - I want to finish this album...it's way overdue, and I want to drop it on my friend's birthday as a surprise (since we were in this band and always wished we'd recorded our songs).
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 01:43
|
|
|
Sometimes I've gotten tricked by input levels when micing stuff. Turn everything down to 0 and start fresh. You're going to want to get reasonable gain into your digi board and then solid output levels to your computer. Working through it a mic at a time from scratch means you don't overlook something easy like having the input gain be really low on the mics but the output on the digiboard being off the scale (giving really muddy sound). Good luck!
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 02:58
|
|
|
In general with respect to the "level problem" you're having (I apologize if this gets beyond what you wanted to think about, but all I can do is describe what's happening): You should have to turn your headphone or speaker volume knob up at least double to have your tracking session seem as loud as a typical commercial release, at least if you're dealing with recorded tracks. You should be recording with your peaks at -6 or so, which will probably make your average (RMS) something like -20dB when you're recording vocals or acoustic instruments. Your average 90s album clocks in with an RMS at -12dB or so, most 2000 and later pop music RMSs at -10 or -9dB. In these units (dBFS RMS) an increase of 6dB results in a doubling of perceived volume, so your drum tracks at -20 are almost 4 times quieter than a commercial release. But you have 4 channels of drum mics all pointed at the same thing. When they sum together, it will probably add 2-3dB every time you double the number of tracks, so we'll say you gain 6dB and you're at -14. This is cool we're getting close to 90s era music levels! But wait, now our mix bus is clipping on most kick and snare hits because the peaks are taking us up to 0dBFS and beyond. So now we have to turn each fader down 3dB and we're back to about a little under half the RMS of a commercial release. At this point your peaks are as high as they can get, the only way to make it be perceived as louder is compression. This is what a compressor does, it increases the ratio of RMS to peak level. In your case I would recommend putting together a drum mix you like (maybe that includes compressing individual channels, maybe not) and then bussing the entire drum mix through a compressor to make it to the level you need, but there are a lot of ways to skin a cat. Badvertising posted:1. Is it really possible to gauge the quality of a track using just headphones plugged in to the rack? I ask because I think that maybe if I had powered monitors playing what I recorded much louder, I could easily find the right balance. quote:2. Is compression on the snare really as evil as a lot of people make it out to be? But you will find you get to a point with compression where drums start to sound smaller and crappier instead of bigger and louder. Compressing the poo poo out of cymbals is hard without creating a horrible wash of midrange noise. Be aware that this will happen. Make most of your compression decisions with the whole mix going, not with the individual track solo'd. quote:3. Can I get respectable guitar sounds plugging directly in to the Digi002 and using on of the plug-ins or amp mods? Every guitar I've tried (6 so far) is again muffled and has a fuckton of background noise. quote:I've got the best "recording" cymbals set up for this (at least in my opinion). If it matters, the cymbals are: A lot of things come into play when you multitrack live acoustic instruments like drum sets or grand pianos, making 4 or 12 or however many mics work together with each other, the room and the instrument at the same time. It sounds like you are lacking a good frame of reference to judge the tracks you're coming away with. It's hard to guess what you're hearing despite the amount of time you obviously put into describing it and there are several things that aren't easily fixable after the fact (bad phase between 2 mics is hard, bad phase caused by reflections in the room is impossible). Is it possible you could upload a 2 or 3 minute sample of the tracks you're coming away with and let a few goons take a crack at diagnosing them or putting them together? Failing that, have you tried buying your roommate a 6pack and making him record you for an hour (then you'll have his settings and you can record to your hearts content as long as you don't bump anything)?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 04:14
|
|
|
Reason 6 just got announced http://www.propellerheads.se/reason6/
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 16:01
|
|
|
keyframe posted:Need help goons. Ideally you don't want to use your internal card, or Windows drivers at all. Ideally you just use ASIO and do all of your IO with the interface. Without a headphone output that will be difficult with that POD, but a lot of uncontrollable things happen behind the scenes with Windows audio drivers. It's ideal to stay away from them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 18:44
|
|
wixard posted:Total awesomeness This is an awesome reply, so thanks. I understand it, and definitely think what I really need to be looking about is the db levels and settling with compression on some channels. I think my anti-compression stance comes from my roommate's hatred of over-compressed commercial releases, and snare/kick tracks being replaced by samples. We're both fans of "real" tracking, whatever the gently caress that means...no quantization, no samples over real sounds, whatever. I realize that this is pretty much impossible to do, especially at my level. There are albums that I know were done not only without much compression (if any), but also live, and they sound incredible, so my goal is to get similar sounds to them. While I'm not as big of a fan of this band as I was, RX Bandits did "The Resignation" and "...And The Battle Begins" all live in studio, and those albums sound great. TSOAF's "The Ocean and the Sun" is one of my favorite albums, and that was also done with a really simple setup (in a garage IIRC - the vocals on their first album were done in my old roommate's bedroom, and that album, "The Tiger and the Duke," sounds great). But, reality is I'm probably far from skilled enough to record myself without using compression on at least the snare, if not much much more than that. I've tried to get my roommate boozed up and over to Bedrock, hoping he'll level and set a perfect 4-mic template for me, but he's pretty much in his sound dungeon 24/7. Sometimes he's out of the country/state on tour, which I often find out about after the fact. quote:You should have to turn your headphone or speaker volume knob up at least double to have your tracking session seem as loud as a typical commercial release, at least if you're dealing with recorded tracks. You should be recording with your peaks at -6 or so, which will probably make your average (RMS) something like -20dB when you're recording vocals or acoustic instruments. Your average 90s album clocks in with an RMS at -12dB or so, most 2000 and later pop music RMSs at -10 or -9dB. In these units (dBFS RMS) an increase of 6dB results in a doubling of perceived volume, so your drum tracks at -20 are almost 4 times quieter than a commercial release. This is what I really need to look at. I've done mic by mic leveling/setup countless times, but I need to really look at the RMS of the tracks. Every time I get frustrated with what I hear in playback, it's just a reset to default, and doing each mic one by one agian. Given that I'm using just headphones, coming straight out of the rack, I'm probably just hearing decent sounding tracks at such low dB levels that I think I'm losing quality/range when I'm not. Guitar sounds probably are related to this too - I'm using the instrument switch when plugging in to the rack directly. I think the problem there is the same as everything else, so there isn't a need to spend time on guitar tracking in this thread. quote:I'm not trying to be snide, but do you have any experience making good recordings of drums? Because the best drum tracks I've ever been a part of have been budget Sabian cymbal packages or totally old trashy sets that just fit the drummer. I don't mean to say you have the wrong cymbals, I'm trying to point out that you're going to need to be a little creative and trust your ears to get the drum sounds you want. Unless you've done it 100 times you aren't going to be able to predict what a certain mic in a certain place in a certain room on a certain drum is going to sound like when you play it back. I easily get that my post could come across as cocky/smug, so I don't take that as a snide response at all. I barely know what the gently caress I'm doing, beyond being able to use all the editing tools once things are recorded. With cymbals, I'm talking within context of the sounds I've been able to get out of the setup now, and in my rehearsal space (which I share with 3 drummers, with tons of interchangeable gear) there are easily 30+ cymbals. I've tried almost every combination, including "shittier" ones like B8s or ZXTs. I actually think that some of the really expensive ones don't sound good at all, so when I say "best" setup, I really mean "best sound I've been able to get so far." I've tracked (a long, long time ago) and been around when excellent cymbal sounds were put down, but I really only was involved as a player/bystander. This is my first attempt at doing it all by myself. I'm constantly surprised at how different certain cymbals sound when mic'd, and at how much midrange/washy noise comes out of certain ones. We have everything from cracked ZBTs to crazy vintage Zildjians to Istanbuls to Meinls...cymbals are obviously really subjective. I'm a fan of, and looking for on this recording, bright and articulate hats, bright short-to medium sustain crashes, and a ride with a nice ping and as little sustain as possible. The current setup meets that need pretty well, but I'm sure once done properly it'll be something different. The ones I have boner for but don't have access to are Meinl's new SoundCaster Fusion Medium Hats and the SoundCaster Fusion Power Ride - they sound like a perfect commercial recording when played, but I don't own them (none of us do), so I don't know if that tone carries over. I can tell you that played in a typical drum room/semi-sound proofed space, my all-time favorite cymbal setup is: 14" Meinl Medium Fusion SoundCaster Hats 19" Sabian AAX-plosion Crash (also fast? have to check) 17" Sabian AAX-plosion Fast Crash 22" Meinl Medium Fusion Power Ride quote:Is it possible you could upload a 2 or 3 minute sample of the tracks you're coming away with and let a few goons take a crack at diagnosing them or putting them together? Definitely - I was planning on getting in a serious Bedrock session tonight, at least 4-5 hours, so I'll take a good look at dB levels, mic placement, compression on the snare, and mix down at least a 1 minute sample, if not a whole take. Sadly, it's not playing the tracks that's been the problem...it's listening to them and thinking they sound like poo poo. I won't bother tracking guitars until drums are done, so it's an endless loop of leveling, doing good takes, listening, deleting it all, re-leveling, etc etc. Playback/Leveling Headphones are these: http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Monitor-Headphones-foldable-metallic/dp/B0052W48AO/ref=sr_1_21?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1310498971&sr=1-21 Tracking headphones are just $50 Vic Firths, but again, I'm just using this to hear the click when playing. That was a loving great response, thanks. I already have a ton of info to start looking at.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 21:11
|
|
|
Drums are the most challenging instrument to record and mix by far... The main cause of lovely sounding drums seems to be phase issues. If you're only using four mics, the majority of your sound will be from the overheads. It follows that the placement of the overheads is very important. I've had good results with the Recorderman technique, which equalizes the distance of both overheads to the kick and snare drums. Alternatively, using the 90-degree mic crossover labeled as A in your diagram will also keep the drums in phase quite well. Using either of those methods will probably be a big step in the right direction. As you add in your kick and snare mics, you will need to phase correct again, as those mics are inches from the sound source. If your overheads are 5 feet away from the snare, and the snare mic is directly next to it, we need to find out how much longer it takes for sound to reach the overheads. Sound travels at 1126 feet / second. Divide 5 by 1126, and it turns out it takes about 0.00444 seconds of latency. Set a 100% wet delay on the snare mic with a time of 0.00444 seconds and it should be in phase again. Do this with your kick as well, then send everything to a bus for compression. There are phase correction plugins that do this if you can afford them. When I set up my compression for a drum bus, I set the threshold to only trigger on snare and kick hits. Set the attack and release to pay respect to the tempo of your song - let the compressor release completely before the next kick or snare hit. My favorite compressor to use for drums is Density MKII because it's free, stereo, and has a wet/dry knob for easy parallel compression. Hope this helps!
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 21:20
|
|
Barn Door posted:Drums are the most challenging instrument to record and mix by far... Again, amazing...I've tried the overhead cross technique (A), and found it to be worse-sounding than both directly down, but again - totally new to this. Your compression setup/explanation just kind of blew my mind and probably is perfect for what I'll need to do. My big challenge with the overheads in general has been getting them to NOT pick up certain things - I had them in one position/setup where the sound of the pedal hitting the batter head was noticeable. Then another where the midrange garbage noise on the cymbals cut through to an unbearable level. I settled on having them point down due to phasing issues and having it be easier to manage the Tom (floor specifically) when they weren't pointed in a cross-pattern like diagram A. Again, this is because I'm totally loving clueless to a lot of this, but with these posts I think I'll learn quickly. You guys are awesome. I'm determined to not use drum replacement samples and quantization on this LP - I know it would be an easy out, and would probably sound fine, but to me I want it to sound like it did when we played it. I feel like I rarely hear a song these days where I'm not sure if the snare (if not all drums) has been replaced by some sample from Drumkit from Hell or whatever.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 21:51
|
|
|
Compressors have been around since the 60s, don't confuse their use to make instruments sound lively with overcompression during the mastering process. Tape saturation has been an instrumental sound since the Beatles first sat down in front of a microphone, and it's just another form of compression. A good rule of thumb if you want things to sound open and full of dynamics is to use compressors to change the character and tone of an instrument, not to regulate it's volume. That should be done by the player and by the arrangement/orchestration of the song.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 22:53
|
|
|
Badvertising posted:
I'm not familiar with your specific overheads, but from your description it seems like they have a lot of coloration when sound hits them off-axis. If that's the case, the cross pattern is a bad choice and you should really consider Recorderman, as both overheads point down at the center of the snare. Try a distance of about 4 ft to start. Good luck! Recording drums on a budget is fiendishly difficult, but it makes it that much more satisfying when you have a sound you're pleased with.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 23:52
|
|
|
wixard posted:This is often a sync issue if it's happening regularly. Are the sample rates for both your internal and your POD set the same? I am using the pod as a audio interface and using its asio drivers. Maybe there is something wrong with the usb cable, I will try and get a new one and see if that solves the problem. -- Another question to the Reason users: I have created a combinator and created some bass sound and a bunch of fx under it that I like. I saved it out as a patch (from combinators save button) but when I bring it back in to a new song I hear no sound from it even though it looks like its recieving midi input when I press my keyboard keys. Any idea what I am doing wrong?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 00:38
|
|
|
Badvertising posted:RX Bandits did "The Resignation" and "...And The Battle Begins" all live in studio, and those albums sound great Incidentally, RX Bandits played a festival last summer that I designed the PA for so I was the default house engineer and got to watch their engineer work. I was really, really impressed with their set and their live sound, but it was far from compression-free. They're so dynamic, there's no way to set up a mix where you can hear all the subtleties with no compression, despite how good the actual musicians are at dynamics. The part that goes unspoken when engineers poo poo on compression strangling everything is that all the mixes they would say are the best used compressors liberally. In mixes they work on they use compressors liberally. Nobody dreams about mixing in a control room with a Neve or SSL and inserting a bunch of awesome outboard EQs, they'd much rather use the SSL EQ on everything and have the same racks full of awesome compressors. I am definitely one of the people that will argue philosophically that compression is bad and will bitch and moan about albums sounding like poo poo these days, but mixing is a game of psychoacoustics and compression done tastefully is usually pleasing to a musical ear. A few dB on each channel is imperceptible in terms of actual dynamics but it's a few dB extra on the final mix right off the bat, plus getting to enhance a track you already liked. I'm telling you as a fellow compression-hater you can see a lot of lights on a compressor before you've gone too far sometimes. Play with compressors, you'll find a lot of ways they can make things sound "more musical," to use the industry-standard term for it. There's no risk (with proper saving) to going a little wild with the Bombfactory 1176 clone (that's the stock Digi plug-in I remember going to by default) on everything and then A/B it to where you were before that (ie bounce the mix as it is in progress with little to no compression and import it on 2 new channels in the session so you can solo it for comparison anytime). As long as you keep a solid reference to go back to you aren't at risk of losing perspective and going compression crazy and hating yourself the next day because you didn't notice.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 02:12
|
|
|
keyframe posted:I am using the pod as a audio interface and using its asio drivers. Maybe there is something wrong with the usb cable, I will try and get a new one and see if that solves the problem. It could be a bad cable. Does it happen on the recording inputs as well, or do just the headphones pop? I mean if you're recording when it happens, does the pop get recorded or is the track clean?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 02:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 17, 2024 17:12 |
|
|
wixard posted:Ah sorry, you mentioned your internal soundcard and I missed that the POD had a headphone jack when I glanced at its manual. I assumed you were monitoring with your headphones/speakers plugged into the internal soundcard. The track is clean. I dont think its the headphones either though because it doesnt happen when I am playing the pod by itself or when I use them with something else.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 05:51
|
|