|
Soo.... Cobb AP is about the best bang for buck y/n? Should it be done before taking it to a competent tuner?
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 05:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 04:17 |
|
|
Simkin posted:Soo.... Cobb AP is about the best bang for buck y/n? Should it be done before taking it to a competent tuner? Cobb or open source. Depends on what you want. Open source is cheaper overall I think. You might want to call the shop you plan to use and see what they support.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 06:54
|
|
|
So this article seems to show that an AEM intake can add power and smooth the output curve without costly tuning. http://www.importtuner.com/powerpages/impp_1102_2011_subaru_impreza_wrx_sti/index.html Should I put any faith in this article? Is Subaru going to be pissed about an intake?
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 15:17
|
|
|
That intake will flow more air than the stock airbox, resulting in the car running dangerously lean (but running leaner means more power, hence their quoted power figures). So no, don't do that on a newer car. Cobb has a map for the AEM intake.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 15:59
|
|
|
Thanks for that unfortunate but good to know advice. I may just leave it stock for a couple months and get used to it. Mainly I'm just looking forward to the fact that this car has more reliability, more utility, and better performance than my current busted rear end Mazda. Now if I can just decide if the factory boost gauge is worth all that money... Does anyone know if installation requires screws going into the dash? It certainly appears to be the case, but I haven't seen one in person to verify.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 16:50
|
|
|
The factory gauge (at least that my friends '04 has) really sucks. Very slow to read and shows in MPa... I really prefer my autometer one.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 16:59
|
|
|
blargle posted:That intake will flow more air than the stock airbox, resulting in the car running dangerously lean (but running leaner means more power, hence their quoted power figures). So no, don't do that on a newer car. Cobb has a map for the AEM intake. Do you have any logging data that shows this? The MAF/MAP should (unless malfunctioning) prevent that exact situation. Unless of course they've increased the diameter of the tube where the MAF/MAP sits thus skewing it's readings to be artificially low, which would lead to a lean situation.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 17:17
|
|
|
The pictures I saw on the import tuner website looked like just the filter and ducting before the MAF. It did say something about a piece of internal equipment that would help ensure laminar flow across the vane of the MAF. It does seem like AFR is the point of that device, but I don't know if other factors limit fuel supply leading to a lean scenario. To me, an over lean scenario in the name of 20 hp is a bad choice.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 18:01
|
|
|
I'm not sure an intake on the later cars is even really worth it, the power difference on a cobb stage 1 vs cobb stage 1 AEM map is minimal. http://www.smyclustermaker.com/ Those clusters are great if you want to add something without doing any permanent damage.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 18:25
|
|
|
Amandyke posted:Do you have any logging data that shows this? The MAF/MAP should (unless malfunctioning) prevent that exact situation. Unless of course they've increased the diameter of the tube where the MAF/MAP sits thus skewing it's readings to be artificially low, which would lead to a lean situation. I don't have logs or anything, but just from spending a bunch of time on LegacyGT.com since I bought my car I've constantly heard the same anecdote about the Legacy w/r/t intakes. I'd actually be excited if this wasn't the case because I've really wanted an intake for a while. I could care less about the gains, honestly - I just really dig the sound. One of the first ones I test drove had an aftermarket intake on it and boy was that noise addicting. Once I found out the recommendation was to tune the car for an aftermarket one I figured I'd just wait until I could afford an exhaust and just go stage 2 Cobb.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 19:36
|
|
|
As far as gauge pods go, I'm getting the MB pod. They make them for the 08+ as well: http://www.rallysportdirect.com/MB-Gauge-Pod-52mm-Subaru-WRX-STI-2008-2011
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 19:45
|
|
|
THE BLACK NINJA posted:So this article seems to show that an AEM intake can add power and smooth the output curve without costly tuning.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 19:45
|
|
|
FENCH DIGGITY posted:I don't have logs or anything, but just from spending a bunch of time on LegacyGT.com since I bought my car I've constantly heard the same anecdote about the Legacy w/r/t intakes. IIRC the legacy's use a 70mm intake tube. So if you got a wrx/sti one (60mm) you'd have to re-tune as you'd have a smaller tube and thus a skewed MAF/MAP reading. So long as you get the correct part for your car, the MAF/MAP should take care of the rest.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 20:00
|
|
|
If there is no real performance gain to be had with an intake, why not just take off the silencer from the stock airbox? I personally put a k&n drop in just to avoid that sound, but hey to each their own.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 21:14
|
|
|
VolumeBroadcast posted:If there is no real performance gain to be had with an intake, why not just take off the silencer from the stock airbox? I personally put a k&n drop in just to avoid that sound, but hey to each their own. I read about this as well, there's a thread about it on LegacyGT. A whole bunch of (again, anecdotal evidence) posts about gas mileage dropping, weird idle, etc. It seems ridiculous that removing that could cause the issues some of these guys are saying it does, but after reading about it a little I figured I'd just leave it be. It could be these idiots are just not reconnecting the MAF or something right but oh well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 22:26
|
|
|
It does seem like the MAF would take care of things. Isn't jamal a professional tuner and Subaru modifier? If so, jamal, what does you expirience tell you if you are willing to share?
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 22:52
|
|
|
intakes DO make power, and it's not from simply altering the AFR. The good intakes are pretty carefully made to mimic the flow through the stock sensor and housing while just providing less restriction. Unfortunately the old Harman blog post isn't up anymore, but it showed about a 17hp gain from just swapping on an AEM intake over stock, without loving up the tune. The injen intake on the other hand, made power but hosed up the airflow readings and caused the car to knock. We did that test, and then started producing our own intakes, so you can see why they are so similar to the AEM parts and even use an AEM filter. On a related note, K&N owns AEM intakes (not electronics), and also makes the Cosworth intakes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 5, 2011 23:03
|
|
|
VolumeBroadcast posted:If there is no real performance gain to be had with an intake, why not just take off the silencer from the stock airbox? I personally put a k&n drop in just to avoid that sound, but hey to each their own. Taking poo poo off before the standard air box / air filter isnt going to change much - EXCEPT if you do what I did on my 04 XT and set up the air coming into the air box as cold. Also, taking air from inside the guard is an exceptionally stupid idea - it's kinda wet under there some of the time! What I did was remove the standard silencer, use a tube of PVC to turn the intake of the air box around so it was collecting air from under the bonnet again but also, created a cardboard cold air box that drew air from behind the lights and thence avoided hot engine air. This then gave me a better air path to the standard box, made sure the intake had a much colder air intake plus made sure that water wasnt going to ingress - which is one of the functions of the silencer. Very silly to look at but it works and servers as a good template for a real cold air intake. Difference? Nice intake noise, definatly colder (ie denser) air charge coming in.Will it be shown on a dyno? Doubtful as dynos dont really show the differences in ambient air temp changes. But anything you do to make the air charge colder, that's always better. Another little trick that helps in this is to set up a bypass of the intake throttle warming water pipes. My theory is simply it may not lead to ultimate power, but keepign it cooler preserves the power you have
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2011 00:39
|
|
|
jamal, which AEM intake did you test? The CAI or the short ram? Is your AQ intake CARB approved?
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2011 00:56
|
|
|
cardboard and PVC. the best CAI solution. I do agree that a CAI is not the best in every situation and then can pull in water more easily. Whenever it rains here I'll get a couple calls where people went through a big puddle and it threw a CEL, and even had one guy rip off the front lip, fender liner, and stall the engine. Pulled plugs, cranked it over, put it all back together, it started up and has been fine ever since... We tested the AEM CAI vs Injen vs K&N shortram vs stock. Our intake is not carb approved although we're looking into having it done. I had the article back online for a short period of time but we're not in charge of harmanmotive.com anymore so it's gone again. I'll have to ask Dan if I can rehost it myself or something. jamal fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jul 6, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2011 01:37
|
|
|
Thanks for the input. It seems like AEM is a good call for a reasonable price, as long as I'm not going to lean out the motor. Either way, I would think waiting for at least 1000 miles before modifying is a good idea. Gave up on the idea of a stock boost gauge. I like the one that isnt a permanent installation because I doubt I'll have the car forever and maybe I'm wrong, but when I was looking at used as soon as I saw an aftermarket anything (boost gauge included) it was a dealbreaker. I do prefer the steering column location. Anyone else feel like offering any other random noob advice of any kind (STi related, ok)? That import tuner article also talked about oil blow by that lead to intake manifold/valve and intercooler fouling. Is that really a concern for a stock or Cobb "stage 1" tune? THE BLACK NINJA fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Jul 6, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2011 04:06
|
|
|
Cool, thanks. I'd assume the short ram ones like the SPT or Cobb SF aren't going to have the same improvements as the CAI, so maybe the AEM CAI is the one I'll go with.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2011 04:27
|
|
|
jamal, this may be directly specifically at you, but I'm curious if any GR STi owners are aware of a way to adjust the horizontal alignment of the HID lowbeams. I can find the vertical adjustment, but trying to make my vehicle a little less crossed eyed is difficult at the moment.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2011 06:29
|
|
|
jamal posted:cardboard and PVC. the best CAI solution. I do agree that a CAI is not the best in every situation and then can pull in water more easily. Whenever it rains here I'll get a couple calls where people went through a big puddle and it threw a CEL, and even had one guy rip off the front lip, fender liner, and stall the engine. Pulled plugs, cranked it over, put it all back together, it started up and has been fine ever since... While the cardboard / PVC kludge is very silly, one of things that I think bears repeating for readers (and this isnt for savvy people, this is a technical note for new to this) is that Cold Air Intakes..... are only cold air intakes if they are genuinely pulling in cold air. A lot of what is advertised ISNT a cold air intake, or even intended to drop air intake temperatures, which as we all know in this thread is very important for a turbo car. Sticking it outside of the guard isnt necessary gaining the desired effect and definatly putting the air filter int he engine bay - a very common mistake is basically a waste of time that will offset any intake gains with higher temps and robs performance. On my kludge (which is undeniably silly) we did it in the evening and while I dont have all the data on me - we had underbonnet temps of 68C, an outside temp of 12C and the difference between the factory intake and the PVC / cardboard of 7 degrees colder in the intake. The cardboard effectively shielded engine temps so we showed basically taking 12c air all the time, while the std intake could pull hot air. That wont work on a WRX as the air intake IS a cold air intake - it's shielded from warm air pretty well and thence I havent bothered altho I think some gains in temps could be made. Pity, cheap silly hacks that work are cool.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2011 09:34
|
|
|
I'm all for diy but a PVC and cardboard intake on a 39k msrp car seems ridiculous.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2011 20:03
|
|
|
THE BLACK NINJA posted:I'm all for diy but a PVC and cardboard intake on a 39k msrp car seems ridiculous. (Not having a go at you) That's a problem with the Subaru community - silly DIY is seen as a WTF, rather than a "Cool!", when in fact DIY hacks make for some of the most awesome ideas and also gives you the opportunity to learn not just how to load someone else's tune, but to actually understand why intake temperatures matter and how to influence them. It's no use buying a 300 dollar intake if you dont know or understand that the 11 hp you "gain" is wiped out when you need it the most by the car dragging hot air through it. Why do dyno time if you dont have the basics understood and right? You see that far too often. Lets find small things to do that make a difference. Let put on weird bits and see if they work, lets give this whole "Stage" thing the finger and learn how to hack Subarus. The one thing that always impressed me with the DSM / VR4 community was the hacker ethic and the ways people came up with cheap but very effective modifications and above that, were willing to share. There's an aweful lot of "Lets go to a workshop" with Subarus and not enough "I wonder if those brakes would fit.....?" Pulling apart the car to find what turned out to be the AVCS issue taught me more about Subarus and how they work than a year's worth of NASIOC posts.
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2011 22:59
|
|
|
Cat Terrist posted:Pulling apart the car to find what turned out to be the AVCS issue taught me more about Subarus and how they work than a year's worth of NASIOC posts. Will these rims fit? How much stretch do I go for? 195 tire width on an 8 inch wide rim?
|
|
#
?
Jul 6, 2011 23:29
|
|
|
Haha yeah, I hardly got any of my information at all on what to do from NASIOC, I actually talked to some of the better regarded tuners and then did a bunch of verification on my own. Jamal convinced me that the AEM CAI was a good idea (I verified it with logs), I'd heard too many issues with intakes on WRXes, but I didn't understand why. A lot of the rest of it was logic. DSM guys are the epitome of "I have no money but will find a way to go faster anyway." They're pretty awesome like that. I still need to get my Openport replaced and my right strut taken apart. I couldn't defeat the drat thing with hand tools.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 03:32
|
|
|
Goddammit. My wife is looking at selling our '05 Legacy GT Limited Wagon to help with monthly expenses (since we don't really drive it much since moving to Portland). Judging from bluebook and Edmunds, it should fetch around $14.5k, but I can't help but think that the rarity of the manual transmission, low miles (71k), and complete set of maintenance records should improve it's real market value. Anyone have a guidance as to what manual LGT wagons are going for nowadays?
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 07:49
|
|
|
Got my Legacy dyno tuned again by PDXTuning (who I highly recommend for OR/WA people) after adding a new fuel pump, 850cc injectors and an FMIC. Prior to this the car was  stage 2. 291/376 on E85, 239/307 on pump Very happy with the gains, my pump numbers are pretty much where my E85 numbers were before the new upgrades and the E85 numbers now definitely exceeded my expectations. Boost was kept on the low side for the pump tune since that'll be my conservative, fuel-saving mode - so there's probably some power left on the table there. This should keep me happy until my stock turbo goes out (at 55k now.) Sterndotstern posted:looking at selling our '05 Legacy GT Limited Wagon Sent you a PM. dphi fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jul 7, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 09:40
|
|
|
Wrar posted:I'd heard too many issues with intakes on WRXes, but I didn't understand why. Too mnay manufacturers out to get the buck of 95% of modders who dont understand what they are doing - which pretty much goes for all cars. Almost all aftermarket really isnt worth the money outside of a select handful - and even then you need to have an understanding what's going on to get the best out of it, just getting a shipping list isnt going to work. How many people get a "CAI" that has the air filter under the hood with no air box to protect it?
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 12:21
|
|
|
dphi posted:
What does that even mean? Seen stage 1,2,3. I guess they're supposed to mean something good but I've got no loving clue. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 14:03
|
|
|
slidebite posted:So, honest and somewhat embarrassing question: Stage 1 is traditionally a reflash on a stock car, stage 2 is reflash with downpipe. Beyond that there is no consistency.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 14:15
|
|
|
Cat Terrist posted:(Not having a go at you) I think thats a good point you are making. I guess for me, I've been doing the DIY thing with shady intakes, questionable problem/performance "solutions," and generally working my car on the cheap for long enough that I'm ready to move on to something more clean. Also, I realize that right now I'm that annoying guy asking 1000000 questions but I do appreciate all the help/discussion.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 14:48
|
|
|
Sterndotstern posted:Goddammit. My wife is looking at selling our '05 Legacy GT Limited Wagon to help with monthly expenses (since we don't really drive it much since moving to Portland). My gut tells me, that $14-15k is just about right if in great shape, if you wait for the right buyer. If you want to sell quick though, you're going to take a hit. I would spam it around on all the subaru boards.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 16:08
|
|
|
slidebite posted:So, honest and somewhat embarrassing question: Stage one is just retune, possibly a catback. Stage 2 is supposed to be uppipe (where applicable) and downpipe/full exhaust. Stage 2.5/3 etc is undefined, usually involves a turbo upgrade.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 20:00
|
|
|
nm posted:Take a look around LGT. yeah, the LGT wagon with manual is the rarest of rare. I wouldn't sell it for under $15.5 honestly, just be patient about it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 20:06
|
|
|
slidebite posted:So, honest and somewhat embarrassing question: It means exactly nothing and should be ignored as it is neither good or useful. quote:Also, I realize that right now I'm that annoying guy asking 1000000 questions but I do appreciate all the help/discussion. How are you going to learn if you dont ask questions? I'd be annoyed if you didnt want to learn.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 21:40
|
|
|
But, it does mean something - stage 1 and stage 2 are pretty well defined things at this point.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 00:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 04:17 |
|
|
Sterndotstern posted:Goddammit. My wife is looking at selling our '05 Legacy GT Limited Wagon to help with monthly expenses (since we don't really drive it much since moving to Portland). Got any pictures? I live a couple hours away from Portland (Oregon, not Maine) and might be interested in taking it off your hands. Shoot me an e-mail at adam (DOT) jacob (DOT) love (at) gmail (DOT) com
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 02:31
|
|
