|
niethan posted:Wrist control is actually pretty important in nogi grappling and mma. Still a very strange time to practice/practise it though, in standing gi grappling. e: Oh, you were responding to this: "I always sort of laugh inside when I imagine someone grabbing my wrist as its the go to move for hollywood hapkido but so rarely happens in real life." I get what you were getting at. Its perhaps the 'practical' version of grabbing the sleeve. Sorry niethan, I seem to press your buttons yes? Nierbo fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Jul 7, 2011 |
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 13:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 06:47 |
|
|
imtheism posted:No, and that's why no one uses them. It's pretty hard to wedge your finger into their neck or something in a way that incapacitates them from moving. It may work on someone who doesn't know how to move, but trying to pinch their armpit or something while they are putting you to sleep just isn't feasible. Gotta disagree with you there. People use the pressure point on the inside of the knees all the time to break their opponent's closed guard, and the clump of nerves along the jawline is very popular to force your opponent's chin up for a choke. The idea that you just hit someone in a certain location and they fall down unconcious might not be practical, but people are using the pain from pressure points to open stuff up every day in every kind of grappling. niethan posted:Wrist control is actually pretty important in nogi grappling and mma. You gotta get wrist control Thoguh fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Jul 7, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 14:32
|
|
|
Thoguh posted:Gotta disagree with you there. People use the pressure point on the inside of the knees all the time to break their opponent's closed guard ... I don't think anybody good uses that guard pass, though, it only works on new people, plus it's easily countered. There's a reason that people use structural guard passes. Pain stuff generally only works on new people who haven't figured out the difference between stuff that hurts and stuff that's dangerous. In other words, pushing your elbows on the inside of my thighs hurts, but I'm not really in any danger, so I can put up with it. An arm-bar, I don't really have a choice.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 15:15
|
|
|
Comrade_Robot posted:I don't think anybody good uses that guard pass, though, it only works on new people, plus it's easily countered. There's a reason that people use structural guard passes. Pain from somebody pushing their elbows on the inside of your knee or something like that isn't remotely close to pain from somebody properly pushing on the pressure point on the inside of your knee with their thumb, no more than the pain from a strong cross face or something like that being comparable to a thumb being sunk into your jawline just below your ear.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 16:22
|
|
|
First: opening the guard puts elbow pressure on those pressure points and creates a structural problem for the guy trying to hold his legs together. It's not either/or, it's both because usually the place you get the most mechanical advantage is also the spot where their nerves are closest to the skin. The pain thing is more an annoyance on anyone that's not a straight white belt, but it's there. That said, jabbing your thumb into a guy's legs isn't a great idea, you're just causing discomfort and opening yourself up for sweep/choke/triangles. Nierbo posted:I'm interested in this as a theory. Is it that a particular type of person (tough) is attracted to martial arts, or do they grow to have a high pain tolerance as they train, or is it an adrenaline thing or just a mental thing. I certainly don't have a high pain tolerance and never have but when I'm at judo I take all sorts of things in stride that I feel I wouldn't normally be able to. Perhaps telling myself that complaining will do no good makes me feel the pain less, like if I don't think about it, it won't hurt. Maybe its just 'the zone'. I'm trying not to get too abstract here. Can anyone relate? Your pain tolerance increases from training, at least mine and my friends' did. It gets very high when you're actually active and on the mat or in the ring. The adrenaline comes in for competitions, which basically lets you get through almost anything. For example: jacare had his arm broken and finished out his match. "Draculino" Magalhaes had a good quote: "If I can get the arm or the neck, I always go for the choke, because I've seen guys continue with broken arms, but never seen a man fight in his sleep".
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 16:58
|
|
|
Smegmatron posted:How bad is the arthritis and are you getting any sort of treatment for it? BJJ involves spending significant amounts of time with your body weight on your knees or shoulders. It doesn't matter if they're just weak or girly since they'll develop as you train more, but it might aggravate any a condition. If your shoulders are bad enough to keep you out of BJJ, you can definitely forget about judo. Wow, thank you both for the info. The state of my arthritis is mild rheumatoid on the borderline of moderate. Usually I can move around most of the day alright, if I've moving around too much or exerting too much that's when it starts to hurt. I was told physical therapy or a martial art would help strengthen my joints and slow down the progression of the arthritis. (I was warned to avoid any sports where there would be a lot of impact on the affected joints, like gymnastics, figure skating, or track) Most of the pain is stiffness and inflamed joints that lock my knees. both knees are afflicted whereas only my right shoulder suffers. I'll look into Kung-Fu, because it looks like it has the kind of mobility I'm looking for. I'm seeing different types of kung-fu in my area. Shaolin, Wing Lam, Chinese. What are the differences in these approaches and which do you think would be best?
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 17:39
|
|
|
Nierbo posted:I'm interested in this as a theory. Is it that a particular type of person (tough) is attracted to martial arts, or do they grow to have a high pain tolerance as they train, or is it an adrenaline thing or just a mental thing. I certainly don't have a high pain tolerance and never have but when I'm at judo I take all sorts of things in stride that I feel I wouldn't normally be able to. Perhaps telling myself that complaining will do no good makes me feel the pain less, like if I don't think about it, it won't hurt. Maybe its just 'the zone'. I'm trying not to get too abstract here. Can anyone relate? I'm a huge pussy who cries if someone shoves hard and that certainly didn't stop me from starting martial arts. Then you get used to discomfort and pain, and in my opinion, the more you experience discomfort and pain which is only that: pain, the more you can tolerate it. Much of the "pain" your average joe suffers from, say, a sudden punch is really a scare. Have you seen what happens when someone who never had brothers to fight with or has never seen a boxing gym reacts when pushed over or punched a little? "AHHHH! WHAT HAS BEEN DONE UNTO ME! CALL THE POLICE! AND THE AMBULANCE, I'M DYING!" Even though they at most have a tiny bruise. So, umm, what I'm saying doing martial arts gets you over the scare and slowly builds your tolerance to discomfort. It carries over to everything, I recently fooled about playing stupid drunk parkour and slipped from a stone pole bruising my thigh rather deep, you felt it through a few beers, and couldn't care less forgetting to even wince. But I remember a time in my life when a similar bruise would've had me whimpering and probably sitting down for a while. Also my favourite personal BJJ anecdote, when I used to do it every week I had a couple of friends along and we intentionally crossfaced each other and used our arms to grind at face (maybe a shithead move but it was a mutual "it's ok") and after a while I noticed my tolerance of getting punched in the face while boxing had gone up leaps and bounds.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 19:02
|
|
|
Guys, we can all stop going to the gym. Dana White has us covered. UFC Personal Trainer for XBOX 360
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 19:33
|
|
|
Thoguh posted:Guys, we can all stop going to the gym. Dana White has us covered. What, your gym doesn't let you flip tiers in the cage? loving McDojos lemme tell ya
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 19:44
|
|
|
Nierbo posted:Some guy at Judo a few months ago grabbed my wrist and wouldn't let go during randori when he could have easily have grabbed my sleeve instead. It didn't hurt after the first few seconds and it didn't give him any advantage over grabbing my sleeve and it sure was weird. I always wondered wtf he was doing. Maybe he saw some pressure point thing on youtube and thought he'd try it out on the local white belt. It's a combination of everything. If you are training a live martial art, you chose to do something that you know will hurt. You get used to pain and discomfort, so you can just fight through it. Plus, adrenaline is awesome.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 20:03
|
|
|
AlteredAtronach posted:Can anyone recommend any BJJ schools in hawaii? I'm just starting out with no grappling experience beyond high school wrestling. Basically all I've found so far is Egan Inoue's place, a Relson Gracie school, and (not surprisingly) a Gracie Barra academy. I don't know how good it is, but BJ Penn has a place in Hilo. http://www.penntrainingandfitness.com
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 20:52
|
|
|
I've heard it's very good. Bj's brothers are, by all accounts, as good as him or maybe better at straight bjj and supposedly great teachers.
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 21:25
|
|
|
plus it means you're down with da best
|
|
#
?
Jul 7, 2011 22:07
|
|
|
Jenner posted:
I have never practised kung fu but from what I've read in this and previous threads, a shaolin kung fu academy should have a strong focus on balance and yoga related exercises but a lot of the advanced stuff is high impact. You'll have to go there and watch a class and see the sort of things they do to make a real decision on whether it suits you or not and to make sure they're not doing any crazy mystical stuff. Like kimbo said, most forms of kung fu will be hard on your knees especially with those quick springy movements. If you want to start out slower, search for yoga or qigong in your area and take a few classes and see how you cope. Sorry to hear about your arthritis by the way. My dad has terrible arthritis in his hands and we can't weight lift together or do anything really, I hope whatever exercise you start can help. VV Of course they aren't related. I was providing an alternative to starting kung fu. i.e. if the yoga is too much, definitely don't take the next step to trying something more taxing. e2: many western kung fu schools do take some things from yoga though Nierbo fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Jul 8, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 01:54
|
|
|
Yoga and Kung Fu are completely unrelated. You should probably leave questions like this to people more experienced, especially when somebody's health is on the line. It's no good Sounding Knowledgeable In A Thread if somebody gets hurt from bad advice. I don't know enough about Kung Fu to weigh in on the conversation.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 02:12
|
|
|
woo, coming back from a nasty head cold all weekend, I ran a really great 3 mile time last night and I got my first submission tonight. Americana from mount, it was sloppy as hell, not even something I've learned yet in the class, just picked up from rolling, but hey, it works. I'm not obsessed with getting subs and beating up on people less experienced than me, but psychologically it's a great boost to know that its possible!
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 03:32
|
|
|
Crossposting this from Watch and Weight because leveling up and competing is fun, Fitocracy is a website that tracks your work outs and allows you to do competitions against others. It is heavily unbalanced towards weightlifting, but I think if we got enough martial arts goons on as a group it could be fun to get some competitions going for most mat time in a month and poo poo like that. The Watch and Weight group does monthly competition for most number of points, but unless you guys are powerlifting every day in your spare time there is no hope of competing in that. http://ftcy.co/lAGD2X (invite link) If anybody else is on this already, there is already a goons group, but if a few people want we can start a Martial Arts Goons group. I know it would make me work out more often if more people called me out when I hadn't logged a workout in a few days. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 04:15
|
|
|
Nierbo posted:VV Of course they aren't related. I was providing an alternative to starting kung fu. i.e. if the yoga is too much, definitely don't take the next step to trying something more taxing. Are you saying that the Chinese martial arts, which have existed in some form since what, 500 BC or so, have started drawing their inspiration from Yoga, which is basically the 19th century Indian-in-origin equivalent of Zumba? edit: No wait, Pilates. 02-6611-0142-1 fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Jul 8, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 05:19
|
|
|
Is wing chun effective? Or is it just a case of techniques being diluted/hosed up by the succeeding generation to the point of being unrecognizable?
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 05:58
|
|
|
Jenner posted:I'll look into Kung-Fu, because it looks like it has the kind of mobility I'm looking for. I'm seeing different types of kung-fu in my area. Shaolin, Wing Lam, Chinese. What are the differences in these approaches and which do you think would be best? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckWsR3Z5O5M This is one of those taolu that the poster a few pages back was refering to. I dunno if something like that could be good for your knees. But, as I said, kung fu is way too broad of a term for you to automatically elect or reject any gym labeled that. Your best bet is to check it out and to double check with your doc what you'd be doing and if it'd be ok. AlteredAtronach posted:Is wing chun effective? Or is it just a case of techniques being diluted/hosed up by the succeeding generation to the point of being unrecognizable? If someone were to try to fight using pure WC techniques as taught by most WC schools, it wouldn't be effective. As much as WC defenders try to deny it, the WC stance is no good for defending takedowns. Some of the ideas for maneuvering your arms in clinch range aren't strictly bad, but are if they're not practiced in a useful way, which again, most WC schools won't.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 06:20
|
|
|
Thoguh posted:Crossposting this from Watch and Weight because leveling up and competing is fun, Fitocracy is a website that tracks your work outs and allows you to do competitions against others. It is heavily unbalanced towards weightlifting, but I think if we got enough martial arts goons on as a group it could be fun to get some competitions going for most mat time in a month and poo poo like that. The Watch and Weight group does monthly competition for most number of points, but unless you guys are powerlifting every day in your spare time there is no hope of competing in that. I like leveling up so I think this is a great idea. Signed up as BohemianNights. You can apparently connect it to your twitter or facebook, so signing up is really easy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 08:41
|
|
|
Nierbo posted:I have never practised kung fu but from what I've read in this and previous threads, a shaolin kung fu academy should have a strong focus on balance and yoga related exercises but a lot of the advanced stuff is high impact. You'll have to go there and watch a class and see the sort of things they do to make a real decision on whether it suits you or not and to make sure they're not doing any crazy mystical stuff. Like kimbo said, most forms of kung fu will be hard on your knees especially with those quick springy movements. If you want to start out slower, search for yoga or qigong in your area and take a few classes and see how you cope. Nierbo, How do you know all this poo poo if you started with judo like two months ago and just got your yellow belt. You donīt. I donīt know it either. Do not feel the responsibility to weigh in on questions you have no relevant experience with. It happens every time. Its great that youre enthusiastic but `STFU and trainī applies to us all. not trying to pick a fight with you (again, lol. no fighting in the fighting thread gentlemen). Arthritis guy, seek a doctor or physiologist. Ask him to give you advice. Arthritis sounds terrible and I can wait until I get it. Preferably very long.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 13:05
|
|
|
AlteredAtronach posted:Is wing chun effective? Or is it just a case of techniques being diluted/hosed up by the succeeding generation to the point of being unrecognizable? The short answer is no, it's not, though it isn't because of being "diluted" or anything like that. Wing Chun itself is only like 100 years old, it's just based on some really lovely principles.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 15:27
|
|
|
AlteredAtronach posted:Is wing chun effective? Or is it just a case of techniques being diluted/hosed up by the succeeding generation to the point of being unrecognizable? I'm sure at one point it worked. That Yip Man guy (is that his name?) fought all kinds of people all over China back in the early 20th century, trying to promote Chinese martial arts. I think he even fought some Muay thai fighters, karateka, or western boxers and catch wrestlers. It's possible all the fights were rigged but Occams razor suggests Yip man was just a good fighter. I don't really know, I just read some internet articles after watching that Jet lee movie. It also probably looked a lot like every other striking style, rather than what WC looks like today. It's no coincidence that boxing Muay Thai, San Shou and Kyokushin karate have fundamentally the same mechanics. Just like how there is a hip throw and a double leg in every grappling style (that hasn't outlawed touching the legs). "Effective" Wing Chun would be kickboxing except you can hit with any part of the body, wrist/arm control is legal, and you can clinch. Which, honestly, would be pretty neat and very practical. Maybe some kind of Wing Chun Machida will appear and beat the poo poo out of people in MMA and lead the revolution. Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Jul 8, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 15:28
|
|
|
Xguard86 posted:I'm sure at one point it worked. That Yip Man guy (is that his name?) fought all kinds of people all over China back in the early 20th century, trying to promote Chinese martial arts. I think he even fought some Muay thai fighters, karateka, or western boxers and catch wrestlers. It's possible all the fights were rigged but Occams razor suggests Yip man was just a good fighter. I don't think there's actually any evidence that Ip Man traveled around China defeating all comers. Ludicrous inflation of the reputations of CMA instructors is pretty common.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 15:39
|
|
|
Pretty much the only martial arts where there is actual documented proof of guys going around defeating all comers was Judo in the late 1800s/early 1900s and then BJJ a few generations later.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 15:43
|
|
|
Oh, I thought there were newspapers that covered his events. Then again, I cannot read chinese so I have no idea what is actually written on those papers.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 15:44
|
|
|
Xguard86 posted:Oh, I thought there were newspapers that covered his events. Then again, I cannot read chinese so I have no idea what is actually written on those papers. I speak Chinese, if you can find any of those articles and post them I'd actually be really interested to see them. Partly because it sounds really unusual for a newspaper to cover two guys sparring somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 15:46
|
|
|
I thought Mas Oyama actually fought dudes and what not? Or is that another TMA lie?
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 17:08
|
|
|
KidDynamite posted:I thought Mas Oyama actually fought dudes and what not? Or is that another TMA lie? No, he did, or at least his students/other Kyokushin dudes did. He also karate chopped bulls to death in his spare time. The thing is, Mas was a sport Karate competitor and ex-soldier who founded a martial arts organization with a clear structure, set of rules, and competitions. He also didn't do anything else all day but lift heavy rocks in the mountains and punch people, and he cross-trained in other martial arts. Yip Man was an opium-addicted degenerate policeman who opened a martial arts school to fund his drug habit. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Jul 8, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 17:38
|
|
|
Man, I feel like a part of my childhood was raped. Bloodsport has been on a local channel the last few days (Channel 2-2 "this" if you live in the Portland area). Since this was supposedly based on the true story of Frank Dux competing in the Kumite and winning, I decided to look up some more info on it. Turns out the whole thing was likely a fabrication.  Now to the reason I posted. While looking up Frank Dux it looks like he started some kind of MMA/Ninjitsu school in California. Anyone been to this or know anything about it? Is his super-awesome-secret Ninjitsu school available only to "Exceptional Law Enforcement" and Intelligence Agency personnel as loving retarded and full of poo poo as I assume it is? I need to stop looking up the actual events based on a "true story." A while ago my brother who attends U of O had a speaker come in who claimed to be ex-CIA and the inspiration behind the movie "Taken." Turns out he did nothing he claimed and was also a total piece of poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 20:50
|
|
|
Jenner posted:Wow, thank you both for the info. The state of my arthritis is mild rheumatoid on the borderline of moderate. Usually I can move around most of the day alright, if I've moving around too much or exerting too much that's when it starts to hurt. I was told physical therapy or a martial art would help strengthen my joints and slow down the progression of the arthritis. (I was warned to avoid any sports where there would be a lot of impact on the affected joints, like gymnastics, figure skating, or track) Most of the pain is stiffness and inflamed joints that lock my knees. both knees are afflicted whereas only my right shoulder suffers. For someone with your health issues that also enjoys kung fu stuff, I'd recommend starting with Tai Chi. It's very likely that one of these schools in your area offers it, and they'll probably recommend it as soon as you mention the arthritis. It's still Chinese martial arts, very low impact and really good physical and mental exercise. It looks easy even though in fact it's hard as hell; you'll need to work to get those smooth transitions between stances and the flowing movements. I tried taking a few classes and was totally humbled by 70-year-old ladies. Going slow is so difficult! Some videos: Monk performing a short form Girl performing in a different style My school's Taiji promo
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 21:10
|
|
|
Thoguh posted:Crossposting this from Watch and Weight because leveling up and competing is fun, Fitocracy is a website that tracks your work outs and allows you to do competitions against others. It is heavily unbalanced towards weightlifting, but I think if we got enough martial arts goons on as a group it could be fun to get some competitions going for most mat time in a month and poo poo like that. The Watch and Weight group does monthly competition for most number of points, but unless you guys are powerlifting every day in your spare time there is no hope of competing in that. Looks like at least a handful of people were interested, so I created a "Martial Arts Goons" group. Everyone should join it. Hurray for peer pressure to hit the mats.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 22:49
|
|
|
Thoguh posted:Pretty much the only martial arts where there is actual documented proof of guys going around defeating all comers was Judo in the late 1800s/early 1900s and then BJJ a few generations later. http://judoforum.com/index.php?/topic/47873-did-the-police-jiujitsujudo-challenge-matches-happen/
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2011 23:44
|
|
|
Senor P. posted:I think it's pretty smart to be dubious about any kind of stories of folks going around kicking someone's rear end. Unless you can get into contact with both parties and witnesses and verify their claims... Judoforum is a horrible place that no one should ever go to for anything other than links to articles and match results. In regards to my post I did have the police matches in mind but I was more thinking of guys like Kimura, where there is very real, documented evidence of his matches.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2011 00:19
|
|
|
Thoguh posted:Looks like at least a handful of people were interested, so I created a "Martial Arts Goons" group. Everyone should join it. Hurray for peer pressure to hit the mats.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2011 01:08
|
|
|
I joined. I will not win any mat time competitions though since I am limited to 3 hours a week because of knee problems.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2011 02:52
|
|
|
Joined as well, but I had to search for you, thoguh, since for some reason the group wouldn't show when I was searching for it. I'm currently out with a toe injury (silly mat cracks) so it'll be a slow start for me but hopefully I'll pick it up after a week or so. edit: bah, even my 17km of cycling today is no match for mat work! Bangkero fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Jul 9, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2011 04:58
|
|
|
Xguard86 posted:Oh, I thought there were newspapers that covered his events. Then again, I cannot read chinese so I have no idea what is actually written on those papers. You sure you're not mixing him up with Huo Yuanjia, as loosely told about in Fist of Legend and Fearless? One guy who went around China and did the leitai challenge thing was a wrestling master. I'm inclined to believe this story only because of the skillset advantage he had over strikers and the mundane way he is said to have won (thrown people or clinched them).
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2011 06:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 06:47 |
|
|
Signed up. But pretty much all my MA stuff is closed for the summer, so expect some lameass Starting Strength type stuff or something.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2011 16:28
|
|
