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artless barbarian posted:So I'm totally panicked right now and could use reassurance that I've done all I can. I really, really hope you find your Odette. You're going through a scenario I have nightmares about.  I'm very sorry to hear about it.
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Jun 27, 2011 23:33
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Just got home and our pigs seem to be okay. They feel a little skinnier but are wheeking eating pooping and moving like normal. We will keep a close eye on them. And take them back to the rescue lady to pig sit from now on
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Jun 28, 2011 05:51
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Late night update on Odette, for anyone who was worried: Found her about ten minutes ago!  She managed to get over the guardrail/barrier thing of my dishwasher, and was chilling there all drat day/evening because she forgot how to get out. I literally had to have her hanging onto a milkbone for dear life, simultaneously as I reached in with my other hand (seriously, the space was big enough for my hand, why she couldn't figure it out a second time isn't saying anything flattering about hamster neurology) to push her up and over. What the hell, Odette. Now she smells like eight kinds of death! Heartwarming! (My relief cannot be expressed in words right now. My advice to anyone who has lost a hamster: sit in the bloody dark and listen until you can feel your wimpy human hearing evolve to canine levels of acuity. Also maybe don't get a mong hamster in the first place. I hear that works out.)
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Jun 28, 2011 07:34
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artless barbarian posted:Late night update on Odette, for anyone who was worried: Woohoo! Congratulations. So about our pigs, while they are still moving around and squeaking and eating and poophing all just fine, they do feel skinnier from the whole event. Like we can feel their ribs far more than we could before. Should we be considering doing some sort of concentrated calorie delivery to get them back to where they were? Or should we just let eating normally get them back on course?
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Jun 28, 2011 14:29
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Do you keep weight records? How much actual weight have they lost in terms of % of former body weight? If it was 10-20% of body weight, I might give extra pellets every other day for about a week, but in general, overfeeding after underfeeding can lead to GI upset. I'd err on the site of caution and let them put the weight back on slowly and naturally.
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Jun 28, 2011 14:39
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alucinor posted:Do you keep weight records? How much actual weight have they lost in terms of % of former body weight? We've been waiting for our scale to come to start, it came while we were on vacation. So no we dont have weight records. Also, it is hard to know what the right measurements should look like. Clearly weight loss in a growing pig is bad, but wouldn't weight staying the same also be bad? We will give a little extra pellets, they haven't been eating a normal 1/8 of a cup since we got them (assuming because they are small still. So relieved that they made it.
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Jun 28, 2011 14:58
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Don't stress too much - they're young, which means they'll bounce back okay, and unless the cage was completely denuded of all edible material (including poops), they weren't into true starvation territory yet. The biggest risk would have been lack of water leading to exacerbation of kidney problems, or true starvation leading to stasis. I think you're clear of either of those. I've taken pigs from far worse situations (months and months of starvation; adult males weighing under 400 grams which is about a third of what a fat healthy boar would weigh) and they bounced back and it didn't even affect their lifespans too significantly.  There's no perfect weight pattern to compare them to (here's some for young pups but yours are probably older than this now) - sudden extreme abnormality in any direction is what you watch for. If they normally gain; drops or sudden cessation of gain is a concern; if they are already constant, both sudden gains or drops could be problematic. If they are still growing, you will see them slowly stop gaining and start maintaining; that's just their normal adult growth being reached. Small fluctuations and long slow changes are typically not of big concern.
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Jun 28, 2011 15:56
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Thanks alucinor. Definitely going to start weekly weighings now though.
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Jun 28, 2011 16:05
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So, I have to leave my four guinea pigs in care of a relative for several weeks where I'll be staying in the hospital. I know they'll be well-fed and get enough attention, but is there anything I can do for them before I leave? Leave a bit of clothing or something that has my scent on it? I know they'll be happy as long as they're fed plenty of greens but I worry about them becoming depressed or lonely.
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Jun 28, 2011 20:44
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A herd of four will be fine. They might get a little freaked out by the change in routine, but being there with their cagemates will keep them content. Guinea pigs are great for showing affection (at least as long as there's food involved, or the idea of food) but they really bond with other members of their species more effectively than with humans. The only time a long absence could be an issue is if you were keeping a pig alone, which is never a good idea. And yeah, Chin Strap, at this point you're probably fine. If the pigs were going to have an adverse reaction from starvation or dehydration, it would have happened already. It looks like they managed to get through okay. Just keep up with normal feeding, maybe a little extra hay or pellets now and again, and they'll be roly poly again before long. kazmeyer fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jun 28, 2011 |
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Jun 28, 2011 21:23
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Remember the lonely baby guinea pig Petunia? Well two weeks ago she got a big 'ol cubes and coroplast cage, and today she got a buddy! She and the new baby, Ruby, are two of the most spoiled piggies now . They are both really young, and got along amazingly well after only a chase or two around the cage. There was no tooth chattering or posturing or anything. Then when we would take one out of the cage they would both cry and look for each other. They love each other 
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Jun 29, 2011 04:22
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Thanks kazmeyer maybe I'm just going to miss them more than they'll miss me!
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Jun 29, 2011 06:02
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Even though I have had my two piggies for months now, I still can't tell if they like being handled or if they just tolerate it? Whenever I handle them I give them some sort of treat, usually a little bit of pepper. One of them may pur a little bit when I first give it to them and then will be mellow and just sort of sit in my lap while I work and gently pet it, but it never purs again after getting the food.
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Jun 29, 2011 19:45
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So apparently my boyfriend's two cats are terrified of my guinea pig. We just moved in together, and I was afraid that they would be interested in her since they used to play with his old ferret. But instead, my guinea pig Ginger likes to (while completely supervised, as in our hands around the cats) approach the cats and touch noses. And then she tries to bite their tails. It took a month for them to cohabitate, and now Gingie has the run of the place. So my question is, besides teeth and claws, what problems could guinea pigs have when interacting with cats? Diseases, etc. The cats are indoors and I think they're up to date on shots.  Here she is since I don't think I've introduced you to her yet!
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Jun 30, 2011 00:51
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Diogines posted:Even though I have had my two piggies for months now, I still can't tell if they like being handled or if they just tolerate it? Basically, you've got to read body language. If the pig stays all balled up like they're ready to take off, they're probably not digging it all that much. If they flatten out, stick a leg out, flop onto a side, or do anything else which suggests relaxation, it's a compliment of the highest order. Guinea pigs are always, and I mean ALWAYS prepared for a coyote to materialize out of thin air four feet away from them, and if you can get them to forget that instinct even for a moment you've done good. Unfortunately, some pigs never really get chill about lap time. My Kali, who bonded more with my ex than she did with me, was never comfortable when I was handling her. She'd take food from me, and I knew she loved me for the fact that I'd put an extra handful of hay outside her pigloo where she wouldn't have to fight for it with the other four, but she always hated it when I held her. (At least until I discovered the trick of laying down on the bed with her on my chest and pulling the sheet up like a tent. The extra overhead cover instantly relaxed her, and she'd start walking around and exploring.) As for guinea pigs and cats, I'll defer to others because I've never had multiple species interaction, but as far as I know if the cats are generally healthy there's not much to worry about (outside of the possibility of one of them reacting badly to a tail bite and swatting at the pig). I've definitely heard of pigs bonding with cats as well as dogs, and I've seen more than one picture of a cat and a pig asleep together inside a C&C cage. kazmeyer fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Jul 1, 2011 |
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Jul 1, 2011 11:57
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It is halfway between that. They don't really make any fear noises and they don't ball up, but they never "flop". I am never really sure on the right way to handle them during lap time, there are lots of good guides to piggy care online but it always seems to leave out that bit. A pig-burrito does not seem necessary as they do not freak out. Should I keep them in cover during lap time? Over their while body? Just over their head? I always give them a little food during lap time, should I give it to them when we first start, at the end, slowly during it?
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Jul 1, 2011 14:53
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Diogines posted:It is halfway between that. They don't really make any fear noises and they don't ball up, but they never "flop". I am never really sure on the right way to handle them during lap time, there are lots of good guides to piggy care online but it always seems to leave out that bit. A pig-burrito does not seem necessary as they do not freak out. Should I keep them in cover during lap time? Over their while body? Just over their head? I always give them a little food during lap time, should I give it to them when we first start, at the end, slowly during it? You are an excellent pig owner and I wish I could make you not worry so much that you're doing something wrong.  The only hard and fast guidelines for pig handling is 1) to give them a steady, level surface to sit on so they don't feel like they are slipping or losing their balance, both of which will make them feel insecure; and 2) hold them in such a way that they can't jump or fall. Really, that's it. There's no guide for the other things, because there really is no perfect handling method that you need to adhere to. Conversely, since you are clearly a sensible handler who is sensitive to their body language, there's also not much you can do to harm your relationship with them (barring obvious mishandling like squeezing or flinging them). If you really wanted a specific recommendation for handling, the only one I would suggest is to use a 3-4" deep wicker basket lined with a cuddle cup or towel like so:  I like this method and recommend it for people with kids, because it gives both secure footing and helps prevent jumping, and can be used for both lap time or transport from cage to couch. While you're holding them, get a small kitchen towel and cover half the basket. If they want to be fully covered they can move under the cover, if not they can sit half covered or uncovered. Offer food whenever YOU feel like it, or whenever you feel like they are asking for it. But really I can't promise that this will do anything for the pigs; it's mostly all for your peace of mind. MOST pigs will never like to be held or petted. They endure it once they realize it comes with food or that it doesn't involve being eaten by a predator. I can't tell you how many adopters return their pigs after 6 months or a year simply because "they don't seem to like me!" These are always people who really wanted a dog or cat but couldn't get one for space/landlord reasons. Most pigs just don't give a drat about people as long as the food shows up on time. The pigs that do bond with humans are rare treasures, but you shouldn't feel bad if you don't get one of those. You kinda have to end up liking them despite this defect. My favorite pig is the one who most hates being handled or touched. My favorite game is reaching throught the bars to give him a boop on the nose, because he always runs away, but then keeps coming back for another boop. His indignance and failure to learn to avoid boops makes him utterly endearing, despite the fact that he doesn't actually like me.
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Jul 1, 2011 16:32
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alucinor posted:My favorite pig is the one who most hates being handled or touched. My favorite game is reaching throught the bars to give him a boop on the nose, because he always runs away, but then keeps coming back for another boop. His indignance and failure to learn to avoid boops makes him utterly endearing, despite the fact that he doesn't actually like me. That is adorable. I can just imagine his thought process "What's going on over here? I'll check it out. AUGH! She booped me! The AUDACITY! *scurries* Hey, what's that going on over there?...."
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Jul 1, 2011 16:36
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I am not worried I am doing something wrong, they seem happy, so much as want to make sure I get it right . Thanks for the advice.
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Jul 1, 2011 17:07
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alucinor posted:You kinda have to end up liking them despite this defect. My favorite pig is the one who most hates being handled or touched. My favorite game is reaching throught the bars to give him a boop on the nose, because he always runs away, but then keeps coming back for another boop. His indignance and failure to learn to avoid boops makes him utterly endearing, despite the fact that he doesn't actually like me. Teehee. Our biggest pig is also the biggest hider. While she is eating I like to get stealth pets in. How long will our pigs keep growing? They are 12, 12, and 5 weeks now and show no signs of slowing down.
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Jul 1, 2011 18:06
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Cassiope posted:That is adorable. I can just imagine his thought process "What's going on over here? I'll check it out. AUGH! She booped me! The AUDACITY! *scurries* Hey, what's that going on over there?...." This works because when pigs see a human finger, they have to investigate because of the extremely small but non-zero chance it might suddenly transform into a baby carrot. (I boop my own girls on occasion, too.) quote:How long will our pigs keep growing? They are 12, 12, and 5 weeks now and show no signs of slowing down. Pigs tend to pack on weight until about 6 months or so, then it's a gradual increase from there. By the time they're one year old, they've pretty much settled at their natural weight, although it can fluctuate a bit. As for how big they'll get, it's a crapshoot. I had one pig that was 1.5 kilos at five months and never dropped below that weight, and I had one pig that never got bigger than 900 grams.
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Jul 1, 2011 22:33
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Chin Strap posted:Teehee. Our biggest pig is also the biggest hider. While she is eating I like to get stealth pets in. It is the exact same with mine! The larger of my pair is clearly the more dominant of the two and also much more shy about being petted. The smaller one lets me pet her in the cage though. Anecdotal evidence: Piggies who are used to being bossed around by other piggies are more tolerant of also being touched by humans?
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Jul 2, 2011 06:18
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Diogines posted:Anecdotal evidence: Piggies who are used to being bossed around by other piggies are more tolerant of also being touched by humans? Unfortunately not universal. In my original herd of five, I had one definite beta pig and two definite alpha pigs. The beta pig (Kali) absolutely hated being handled, while one of the alpha pigs (Indira) would stand up at the bars and wheek at me until I reached in and petted her. (They were sisters from the same litter, to boot.)
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Jul 2, 2011 10:40
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I have a follow-up question regarding my hamster Odette, who escaped and was the subject of a very frantic post in this thread about a week/two pages back. She was under my dishwasher for the better part of a day, and came out really matted and filthy. She ended up grooming it all out, but pulled a few chunks of her fur out in the process. (One particularly matted leg's been given a bit of a close shave, and there's fur missing from one cheek and a bit off the top of her head.) The exposed skin underneath isn't bumpy or red or irritated at all, and I've been giving her regular inspections to check for further hair loss/irritated skin/etc. So far, no other bald patches have cropped up, but Odette's grooming seems to now include more itching/gnawing-to-relieve-itches tendencies. It's been a week since her great escape. Should I chalk it up to her still just not feeling clean enough or could she potentially have mites? We really don't have many bugs where I am (southern BC, Canada) or if we do I rarely see them inside my house. I haven't seen any black flecks on her fur or other evidence of mites (her belly fur is totally fine, for example), and I changed her bedding completely about a day after I found her again.  Am I just being paranoid? Would it be harmful to Odette at all if I bought mite spray and treated her with it as a preemptive measure? I know her initial fur loss was due to stress/matted fur due to stress, but it's been a week and she acts 100% normal otherwise, so I doubt that's still the catalyst to her itching/scratching herself. Should I just give her more time to chill out and see if the behaviour lessens? Ugh I swear to god I have had more drama concerning this hamster than my previous two combined. She's lucky she's adorable. 
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Jul 4, 2011 17:19
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I've planted a forage area for the guinea pigs we have at work. Right now I've planted rye grass, parsley, and coriander. What other things could I plant in there for variety? Also is rye grass okay for them? I tried looking it up and it seemed like just any grass was okay as long as it is dog/cat/pesticide free.
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Jul 6, 2011 15:12
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Yep, rye is fine, very low in calcium. Basil and dill would be great. Maybe some baby lettuce mix? artless barbarian, I wouldn't use any commercial mite spray, many have ingredients which could harm her. I would only use ivermectin or possibly revolution/advantage but you'll have to get your vet to tell you what the doses are; for a little thing like her it will be a TINY amount. Just give it a week and see if anything changes.
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Jul 6, 2011 15:30
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alucinor posted:Yep, rye is fine, very low in calcium. Awesome, I've got basil seeds too but wasn't sure about putting them in there. I also have chive seeds but I assumed those were a no-go, right? Thanks for the baby lettuce and dill idea too, I'll pick some up soon
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Jul 6, 2011 16:17
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So we just got a winter white dwarf hamster and she's the cutest thing imaginable, but we're wondering whether to get another female to keep her company. Is it a good idea to have multiple dwarf hamsters together? We're unsure of introducing another one now little Stouffer has made the cage her home. It's only been a day since she was introduced to the cage, so I suppose there's some leeway but we're unsure whether to proceed. The cage we have is big enough to support two comfortably so space isn't an issue.
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Jul 7, 2011 00:40
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From what I understand you can try to keep two together, but only if you are prepared for the possibility that it may not work out and you are going to be able to keep them separately if it doesn't.
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Jul 7, 2011 04:12
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Plavski posted:So we just got a winter white dwarf hamster and she's the cutest thing imaginable, but we're wondering whether to get another female to keep her company. Is it a good idea to have multiple dwarf hamsters together? We're unsure of introducing another one now little Stouffer has made the cage her home. It's only been a day since she was introduced to the cage, so I suppose there's some leeway but we're unsure whether to proceed. The cage we have is big enough to support two comfortably so space isn't an issue. You might want to look around the internet and see if white dwarf hamsters do well together. My wife and I have kept several sets of Roborovski's for years now and while they supposedly do well in pairs, we've had to eventually separate all of them due to fighting. Sister's from the same brood have lasted the longest together.
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Jul 7, 2011 06:59
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Yeah, after more research online it appears that the best chances of companionship is if they come from the same group at the pet shop at the same time. I think we're just gonna keep her on her own and not risk any violence or potential separation requirements. Thanks for the advice.
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Jul 7, 2011 11:16
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I have a very young guinea pig (about 3 months old) and a grown guinea pig (2 years old). How do you solve the problem of them needing different diets - the young pig needing alfalfa and the grown pig needing timothy. My adult pig is already chubby, so I know she doesn't need the extra protein/calcium/etc that alfalfa has for growing pigs. I have tried giving the young pig her own floor time and feeding it to her then, but that's not always on her eating schedule and sometimes she only eats a stick or two. Also, she gets "lonely" really quickly and starts alarm wheeking for the other pig. Will she be okay with mostly/only timothy or will that hurt her in some way or stunt her growth?
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Jul 9, 2011 04:36
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I saved a baby mouse from one of our cats yesterday... under 2 weeks old, its eyes were still closed. We got some formula, and it seemed to be doing well, it was energetic and friendly, and seemed to love falling asleep in my hand... I just got home and found it dead. I'd never had/cared for a mouse before, but I'm so broken up about it. Ugh. I knew that the success rate for hand-nursing them is low, and I did everything that I could, but still. loving heartbroken. 
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Jul 9, 2011 06:16
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INeedANewCrayon posted:Will she be okay with mostly/only timothy or will that hurt her in some way or stunt her growth? Yes, she'll be fine on timothy alone. If you still want to supplement her, a few times a week you can offer the younger pig alfalfa in the form of pellets, rather than hay - most pigs will stop everything and gobble pellets. Rather than taking her out of the cage, you can also try dividing their pig cage for an hour or so for pellet time - just place the small pig and her bowl on one side and make sure the divider is strong enough that the big pig can't knock it down. You can just make a box of four grids if that's easiest. You can achieve the same thing with veggies - at feeding time, try to get the adult pig interested in a bell pepper or some romaine, and then offer the younger pig kale or spinach, both of which are higher in calcium. Good for the younger, not so much for the elder. So in other news, my recently-acquired 5 year old female died on Wednesday of bladder stones. Haven't had her for more than three months! Her mom died a couple weeks after intake of the same thing - their previous owner had been feeding unlimited alfalfa pellets for the whole four years they'd had them. This means I'm down to one pig (a neutered male) for the first time in 10 years. This time, I want to adopt young females, and I'll have them spayed so that I can get a few more years out of them then I seem to get out of intact girls. I've been trolling Petfinder and there's only six female guinea pigs listed in all Wisconsin. I'm planning to head down to one of the shelters today to meet a couple of girls, and last night the director of the defunct WI GP rescue emails me, and says that shelter called her asking if they could take a pregnant female.  If she's not too far advanced I will still plan to spay her next week, but if she's within a few days of popping it looks like I'm going to acquire between two and six new piggies.
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Jul 9, 2011 14:39
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alucinor posted:If she's not too far advanced I will still plan to spay her next week, but if she's within a few days of popping it looks like I'm going to acquire between two and six new piggies. I like how you're pretending not to be excited for a bunch of baby cottonballs. Baby guinea pigs are the softest little puffballs in the world, and like 75% of their body is face.
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Jul 9, 2011 14:58
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alucinor posted:This means I'm down to one pig (a neutered male) for the first time in 10 years. This time, I want to adopt young females, and I'll have them spayed so that I can get a few more years out of them then I seem to get out of intact girls. Would you suggest doing this? How old should we do this at and how much would we be looking at spending? Money isn't much of an issue just curious
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Jul 9, 2011 17:48
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Serella posted:I like how you're pretending not to be excited for a bunch of baby cottonballs. Baby guinea pigs are the softest little puffballs in the world, and like 75% of their body is face. Babies are adorable for 3 weeks, they they're assholes for about 18 months. I have enjoyed enough baby faces in my life, I'm happy to take older pigs at this point.  Chin Strap posted:Would you suggest doing this? How old should we do this at and how much would we be looking at spending? Money isn't much of an issue just curious I'm doing it, so yes, I would recommend it. Just in my own personal experience, I have observed the following typical lifespans: Neutered males: 7-9 years Intact males: 6-7 years Spayed females: 6-7 years Intact females: 5-6 years. One of my former vets said he sees ovarian/uterine problems in female pigs often enough that he recommends spaying all of them, just like with rabbits. But few people can afford it, and not all vets are good enough to do it, so it's really a matter of personal choice as to whether the risk and cost is worth it to you. The last two spays I had done privately both cost around $500; the ones I have had done for the rescue cost about $200, but that's on top of the regular ~$200 we spend in pre-adoption vet costs; which makes it far too costly for animals that only bring in a $70 adoption fee. We rarely spay in the rescue for that reason, but from here on out all my personal pigs will be spayed. My current personal vet doesn't feel comfortable doing spays but has done a number of them in the past, and she said she will do them if I insist. I would not recommend using a vet that said this to anyone else. My former vet would spay anything over 600 grams with no hesitation. If you're near an exotics specialist vet who has done lots of spays, is comfortable doing them, can help you provide excellent aftercare, and money is no object - I would say it's worth it. So this is what I came home with:  Her name is Susie, she's about 2 years old and came in alone on 6/7, so with luck, she may not be pregnant (this shelter sucks at sexing so it's still a 50-50 chance as to whether she was housed with a male after intake). She's got very red urine which I'm praying is from too many carrots (this shelter doesn't feed hay) and she has a cyst or something on the back of her neck. She's quite skittish. She just had her first dose of ivermectin and she's got a vet visit next week, so she'll be in quarantine another 3-4 weeks before I introduce her to Dozer. The other female had 3 babies early this morning, so they'll call me when they're weaned and I'll go back and pick up the mom and maybe one of the daughters.
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Jul 9, 2011 21:46
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I don't know how common it is but my boars have stopped caring about high Ca greens that they would wolf down like there was no tomorrow when they were growing up. I know it's not something you should rely on them doing themselves, but are pigs good at eating stuff that is healthy and avoiding poisonous foodstuffs?
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Jul 9, 2011 22:45
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alucinor posted:(this shelter doesn't feed hay) Seriously, that's one of the most basic things about guinea pigs. Even *some* hay would be better than none. I know shelters don't specialize in small animals, but they can't just Google it real fast?
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Jul 10, 2011 19:10
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Serella posted:Seriously, that's one of the most basic things about guinea pigs. Even *some* hay would be better than none. I know shelters don't specialize in small animals, but they can't just Google it real fast? Food sources observed in shelters for guinea pigs/rabbits: cat food dog food bird seed rat food rotting vegetables straw (as in, landscaping straw) dog biscuits nothing terrible guinea pig pellets Meanwhile animals like rats that could eat cat or dog food short term until they could get something better, they will feed alfalfa blocks, hay, and guinea pig pellets. It's the damndest thing.
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Jul 10, 2011 20:01
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