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kimbo305 posted:Right, to more clearly answer Office Sheep's question, there is certainly a concrete notion that Wushu is a performance art. However, I think it was also clear in that lady's mind that the wushu performance was actually deadly, as opposed to just acrobatics. It was not the case that the lady was trying to show Mechafunkzilla a better example of a Chinese Art. Yeah, just 1 point for pushing someone out of bounds. Remember, shuaijiao owes a lot to northern wrestling traditions, and Mongolian wrestling has no ring. As for my friend who took me to a Shaolin kung fu show, she understood that what they were doing was just a performance, but at the same time she was convinced that a Shaolin monk would easily dominate were he to compete in mixed martial arts.
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Jul 11, 2011 20:55
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Do Chinese MMA players differ much in styles from here? Do local fighting styles colour Chinese MMA in a Machida-esque way?
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Jul 11, 2011 21:57
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Office Sheep posted:Do Chinese MMA players differ much in styles from here? Do local fighting styles colour Chinese MMA in a Machida-esque way? Nope. Well, lots of guys with muay thai backgrounds, but there were no, like, Kung Fu fighters. Also most of the main card guys weren't Chinese. Freestyle/greco isn't really a popular thing there so all the Chinese dudes were your standard MT/BJJ.
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Jul 11, 2011 22:02
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Office Sheep posted:Do Chinese MMA players differ much in styles from here? Do local fighting styles colour Chinese MMA in a Machida-esque way? Art of War is the best and most competent MMA promotion in China right, and they got off the ground with fighters from the Beijing BJJ academy. Other than that, MMA is very new and very raw in China, so I don't think there's enough of a sample to label anything as "Chinese MMA." The non-BJJ-based fighters who fight are mostly Sanda or kickboxing strikers who are babies on the ground. So the most successful Chinese fighters you'll see (like Zhang Tiequan in the WEC/UFC) owe their style to modern BJJ than traditional arts. It is possible that down the road, you might see more sanshou techniques in MMA. For mediocre preview, see Cung Le's MMA matches. e: haha, just got to watching that shuaijiao video. After his first fall, lighter blue's coach smacks him and says to his off camera friends, "I had to smack him. If I didn't, he wouldn't show his skills. All his kung-fu is smacked out of him." And then lighter blue lands that throw  and his coach says, "you see?"
kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Jul 11, 2011 |
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Jul 11, 2011 22:05
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Kung fu guy chiming in. Been doin it for just over a couple months now, at this place http://www.waterlookungfu.com/ It has been a lot of fun so far, and I think iy will continue to be as long as I'm interested in the whole "package". Some night are self defense, others are forms (kata in Karate I think), other nights we work kicks or punching drills. There is sparing, but I haven't been able to participate because I don't have a high enough belt yet (this is my main complaint with the place). The whole experience has been great for fitness, which is the main reason I joined, and the environment is very friendly and fun. After reading this thread, I think I lucked out. The instructors are very aware of the unpracticality of the majority of kung fu for fighting, often saying things like "obviously in a real life scenario you would never stand or punch like this". When we do practice sparring techniques, it looks a lot more like kickboxing than kung fu, with rules like no elbows or kick below the waist. I think everyone there (at least who I've talked to) is pretty self aware of the practical limitations of kung fu in terms of fighting, and do it more for self improvement.
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Jul 11, 2011 22:16
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I would just like to point out that we've been discussing Chinese martial arts, a traditionally hot issue, for like 2 pages in an adult, non inflammatory manner. Hell, I was even completely wrong about something, and had people point out how wrong I was in a polite way. Good things, good things.
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Jul 11, 2011 22:27
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TravellinDan posted:Kung fu guy chiming in. Been doin it for just over a couple months now, at this place http://www.waterlookungfu.com/ It has been a lot of fun so far, and I think iy will continue to be as long as I'm interested in the whole "package". Some night are self defense, others are forms (kata in Karate I think), other nights we work kicks or punching drills. There is sparing, but I haven't been able to participate because I don't have a high enough belt yet (this is my main complaint with the place). The whole experience has been great for fitness, which is the main reason I joined, and the environment is very friendly and fun. I've been getting on people to stay after class and do some kickboxing sparring in krav maga and it's been eye-opening to a lot of them. I've been sparring once or twice a week (generally 10 3-minute rounds) for 7 months and a lot of folks (including people who have trained years longer than I have) freeze up and realize that being able to execute a technique on cue is a hell of a lot different from executing it live. But the instructors are definitely putting more pressure on people to spar now, so things are getting better.
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Jul 11, 2011 22:44
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TravellinDan posted:Kung fu guy chiming in. Been doin it for just over a couple months now, at this place http://www.waterlookungfu.com/ It has been a lot of fun so far, and I think iy will continue to be as long as I'm interested in the whole "package". Some night are self defense, others are forms (kata in Karate I think), other nights we work kicks or punching drills. There is sparing, but I haven't been able to participate because I don't have a high enough belt yet (this is my main complaint with the place). The whole experience has been great for fitness, which is the main reason I joined, and the environment is very friendly and fun. Sounds like you're at a good place. Sparring is really the great equalizer when it comes to martial arts, since bad instruction will be immediately apparent when you're trying to do something against a resisting opponent. It's no coincidence that, say, a punch in muay thai, western boxing, and sanshou are almost identical -- there are certain things that just work the best in a given ruleset, and since all of these disciplines have been practiced for hundreds/thousands of years, peoples living thousands of miles apart have still independently figured out the ideal body mechanics for what they're trying to do. Authentic combat manuals from medieval eras are really fascinating to me, because even though they're 400+ years old and are from all over the world, they have basically the same techniques you see in things like modern wrestling and MMA -- not particularly surprising given that back then, armies actually did fight hand-to-hand, and training martial arts that really worked was a matter of life and death. Check this out, a German combat manual from the 1400's: http://www.scribd.com/doc/6498917/Medieval-Combat-A-15th-C-Illustrated-Manual-of-Sword-Fighting-and-CloseQuarter-Combat-Hans-Talhoffer Single- and double-leg takedowns, foot sweeps, back trips, hip throws, sacrifice throws, front headlocks, whizzers, side control, guillotine chokes...they really knew their poo poo. I also love that about half the stuff in an armed combat manual is just "get close, drop your weapon and grapple the dude". Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Jul 11, 2011 |
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Jul 11, 2011 22:51
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Mechafunkzilla posted:
This is really cool. Page 242 is absolutely essential for any martial artist of today and I really feel like it's not stressed enough in just about any school you'll go to.
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Jul 11, 2011 23:26
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Dirp posted:This is really cool. Page 242 is absolutely essential for any martial artist of today and I really feel like it's not stressed enough in just about any school you'll go to. Gonna bring this up at sambo. Anytime a guy spars a girl he needs to start in a waist-high pit while she swings a bag with a huge rock in it at his head. e: I'd be super-obliged if anyone can make plate 247 avatar-sized. Also plate 250 is  as gently caress.
Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jul 11, 2011 |
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Jul 11, 2011 23:37
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Single- and double-leg takedowns, foot sweeps, back trips, hip throws, sacrifice throws, front headlocks, whizzers, side control, guillotine chokes...they really knew their poo poo. I also love that about half the stuff in an armed combat manual is just "get close, drop your weapon and grapple the dude". I'm going to call BJJ "Knave Wrestling" from now on because of plate 207. The counter to this is apparently kneeing the opponent in the balls.
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Jul 12, 2011 00:53
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I guess there really isn't much you can do against someone in armor with a sword, so getting them to the ground is going to be essential.
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Jul 12, 2011 01:10
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You can pretty much just use the sword for leverage in getting him down, stabbing weak spots (arm pits and whatnot) and bludgeoning with the pommel. loving medieval battle tanks. That Talhoffer manual is awesome, there are so many fantastic plates in it. In a different manual, I think it was Codex Wallerstein, there is an elaborate description of How To Rob A Peasant--slice through the skin of his throat to make blood go everywhere, then make off with his pouch. Great stuff. Bam: http://media.bibliothek.uni-augsburg.de/imageslimited/82787_perc_100_0.567934552229 Rhaka fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Jul 12, 2011 |
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Jul 12, 2011 01:32
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speaking of CMA, I just tried a Buk Sing Choy Lay Fut class tonight and it was pretty fun. Started off with knife sparring (I think I went 1-3) and worked hard on the basics - conditioning, footwork, blocks, jab and cross combo. My toe is still injured so I couldn't move around as comfortably as I would have liked. Hoping that it's healed up by next week. I don't know much about the style other than it branched off from the other CLF styles by emphasizing sparring above else and only once one is proficient sparring will the forms be taught. Turns out another goon is also in the class so I'm in good company. I told him to check into the AT MA thread.And those medieval manuals are loving awesome. Imma dig a hole in my backyard and surprise my girlfriend next time she comes over. Bangkero fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Jul 12, 2011 |
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Jul 12, 2011 05:09
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Is the knife sparring where you just have to land a nick or slash and that person counts as injured/dead?
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Jul 12, 2011 05:28
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kimbo305 posted:Is the knife sparring where you just have to land a nick or slash and that person counts as injured/dead? yeah, first one to 3 slashes and then rotate partners. Just the limbs (aim for attacking arm and leading leg) since we're all beginners the instructor didn't want to go for the body yet. In my FMA class we go by time limit rather than using a point system and spar in a small boxed area to maneuver in, emphasizing more hack and slash along with the counters. The principle we go by is to try attack the hand/wrist that the knife is in and also counter towards hitting important areas (the neck, body, arm with weapon, inner biceps).
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Jul 12, 2011 05:52
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Had the usual monday open mat/fighting session yesterday, and man, I feel busted up. It was my first standup with takedowns (and strikes) in almost six months. I'd forgotten how much fun performing european double leg takedowns are, and just how excruciatingly hard it is to fight in the clinch. Speaking of swords and poo poo, has everyone seen this video of crazy russians trying to beat each other up in armor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDdTB1GzHJw It might be geeky, but I would attend the gently caress out of an event like this. Just imagine the adrenaline rush you get being stuck in the middle of that melee!
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Jul 12, 2011 10:25
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Bohemian Nights posted:Had the usual monday open mat/fighting session yesterday, and man, I feel busted up. It was my first standup with takedowns (and strikes) in almost six months. I'd forgotten how much fun performing european double leg takedowns are, and just how excruciatingly hard it is to fight in the clinch. That looks both super metal, and like a splendid way to incur medical expenses. There was an Australian Viking re-enactor dude somewhere running an A/T thread, I wander what he'd think of that video.
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Jul 12, 2011 10:46
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Office Sheep posted:I'm going to call BJJ "Knave Wrestling" from now on because of plate 207. The counter to this is apparently kneeing the opponent in the balls. Don't forget plate 86 - the "Knave Hold" (or Knee on Belly).
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Jul 12, 2011 16:57
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Office Sheep posted:I'm going to call BJJ "Knave Wrestling" from now on because of plate 207. The counter to this is apparently kneeing the opponent in the balls. Like my Krav instructor always says (not hyperbole, every goddamn time we do groin kicks) "What's better then a groin kick? Two groin kicks!"
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Jul 12, 2011 17:05
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Winkle-Daddy posted:"What's better then a groin kick? Two groin kicks!" Requesting thread name change to this please.
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Jul 12, 2011 17:48
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the only groin kicks I condone is the "accidental" kind. Like when you go to overhead sweep a guy standing in your guard.
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Jul 12, 2011 18:46
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Check this out, a German combat manual from the 1400's: http://www.scribd.com/doc/6498917/Medieval-Combat-A-15th-C-Illustrated-Manual-of-Sword-Fighting-and-CloseQuarter-Combat-Hans-Talhoffer Hahaa that's really cool stuff, thanks for the link man
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Jul 12, 2011 18:47
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I was always taught that kicking someone in the balls isn't that great a move because when someone's adrenaline is pumping, it's relatively easy to shrug off. This is backed up by personal experience. Plus you're risking that the guy will catch your leg.
Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jul 12, 2011 |
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Jul 12, 2011 18:49
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So, yesterday I was rolling with a new guy and generally being a nice training partner and not going too hard. I have him in side control and I've given him a little room so he can bring his right arm in and either push me off or to just to let him frame up on me. Instead, this jackass uses the room to bring his elbow down onto the inside of my thigh near my balls, really loving hard. It doesnt hurt so bad at first and Im just kinda pissed, this guy tried to escape sidecontrol by bashing my balls in and I don't roll with him the rest of the night. The inside of my thigh hurts a little for the rest of the evening but it just feels like muscle soreness, no biggie. This morning, it feels like theres a fork jabbed into where this guy elbowed me, I'm struggling getting down stairs, or walking around all thanks to this jerkoff. There isn't any bruise or anything where he struck me so I'm confused as to whats wrong with me.
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Jul 12, 2011 19:11
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fawker posted:So, yesterday I was rolling with a new guy and generally being a nice training partner and not going too hard. Rest it for a few days, groin injuries are a bitch. Muscle bruises won't always show up as a black-and-blue mark.
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Jul 12, 2011 19:15
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Mechafunkzilla posted:I was always taught that kicking someone in the balls isn't that great a move because when someone's adrenaline is pumping, it's relatively easy to shrug off. This is backed up by personal experience. Plus you're risking that the guy will catch your leg. This one Finnish martial artist/bouncer/lifestyle fighter/martial arts nerd is always telling the same thing. He recalls his first time trying when he was 16 or so, and started a fight with some older guy who was at their home really drunk and making a mess. Anyway he thought kick-to-balls will surely prevail against a larger foe and proceeded to repeatedly kick the drunken and very enraged man in the testicles to no visible effect (at this point I have to remind any reader that even a 16 year old if fighting- or sports-inclined, or both, can have serious power in a kick). I don't remember if he choked the guy or somehow manhandled him out or what happened but he didn't win with the kick to the balls at all. HOWEVER as a surprise attack, when someone is not either on psycho-gear and/or drunk and/or high will cause serious amounts of pain and probably disable the person for a while. I mean, I don't know why someone would do something like that, but as witnessed, it really hurts. But yeah as far as SD goes, everyone who has ever instructed me always reminds that counting on pain and pain alone to get out of the situation can backfire in a bad way. If you can go for a solid knee between the legs, sure, but don't trust you'll drop him with it. edit: also gently caress I too just realized there really was a Chinese TMA discussion continuing 2+ pages without insults, enraged posters nor trolling, which makes posters in this thread somewhat special (for the internet at least) - I mean in a good way Ligur fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Jul 12, 2011 |
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Jul 12, 2011 19:19
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A friend asked me if I'd back off in a fight if the other person started fondling my balls. He thinks making a homoerotic gesture will scare off an attacker. Obviously, the dumbest martial arts discussion I've had yet. He also linked me this article http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31751_162-20025266-10391697.html
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Jul 12, 2011 19:27
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zalmoxes posted:A friend asked me if I'd back off in a fight if the other person started fondling my balls. He thinks making a homoerotic gesture will scare off an attacker. Obviously, the dumbest martial arts discussion I've had yet. The proper name for this is "the oil check". If someone were fighting me and they stopped defending their face long enough to try and fondle my balls they would be unconscious before I ever realized what they were trying to do. Not trying to be internet tough guy here but fights move really fast and if you're taking time out of defending yourself or hitting the other guy to try and grope them you're going to get hammered. Tell your friend that's a really bad idea. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Jul 12, 2011 |
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Jul 12, 2011 19:31
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Mechafunkzilla posted:I was always taught that kicking someone in the balls isn't that great a move because when someone's adrenaline is pumping, it's relatively easy to shrug off. This is backed up by personal experience. Plus you're risking that the guy will catch your leg. i doubt cheick kongo's victims suffer from a lack of adrenaline
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Jul 12, 2011 19:53
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explain your personal experience
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Jul 12, 2011 19:55
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Paul Pot posted:i doubt cheick kongo's victims suffer from a lack of adrenaline Cheick Kongo could knee you in the buttocks and you would still crumble into a pain-addled heap so it's kind of irrelevant. Paul Pot posted:explain your personal experience I've been kicked flush in the balls a few times while sparring and while it sucks real bad and I elected to stop for a minute to recover, were I in a real self-defense situation I would have been able to keep going.
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Jul 12, 2011 19:55
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57Mva-3n7TY This is all I can think of any time I hear any discussion on the subject of punching balls in MA
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Jul 12, 2011 20:15
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I've requested this like twice before but it can't hurt to try to find it again. It's a Youtube highlight real of some self-defense school. At one point, the instructor ducks a punch and proceeds to fake chain-punch the attacker in the balls. Anyone?
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Jul 12, 2011 20:42
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Mechafunkzilla posted:
I got nailed by 225 kick boxer right in my (stupidly) cup-less junk. I finished the round, went home and got in the shower... It looked like I had one testicle. It was the color and size of a grape fruit or maybe a small eggplant. I walked weird for a week and had lingering nerve pain for over 3 years. Ball shots suck for many reasons, but they do not reliably end fights. I have a special irritation when womens' self defense courses teach girls to knee guys in the balls and run. First, it is not an easy target, even an untrained guy just knows how to defend his balls from a lifetime of experience. Second, you might make him regret it for the rest of his life, or at least several weeks, but it's not helping you in the next thirty seconds, which is what a "self defense" technique should do.
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Jul 12, 2011 20:43
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Just once in a movie I'd like to see the female protagonist knee the bad guy in the junk, and instead of comically falling down and groaning, he just kind of winces and then pistol whips her. Even in more serious action movies people getting hit in the nuts always act like they just got shot.Xguard86 posted:I have a special irritation when womens' self defense courses teach girls to knee guys in the balls and run. First, it is not an easy target, even an untrained guy just knows how to defend his balls from a lifetime of experience. Second, you might make him regret it for the rest of his life, or at least several weeks, but it's not helping you in the next thirty seconds, which is what a "self defense" technique should do. Most women's self-defense classes should just be renamed "how to provoke your attacker into murdering you". Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jul 12, 2011 |
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Jul 12, 2011 20:50
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Just once in a movie I'd like to see the female protagonist knee the bad guy in the junk, and instead of comically falling down and groaning, he just kind of winces and then pistol whips her. Even in more serious action movies people getting hit in the nuts always act like they just got shot. At my gym, there's a female instructor who's really, really big into empowering her female students, which is a good thing. Unfortunately, one of said female students posted "I'm not scared of people who do MMA, I'd just kick them in the junk and go for their eyes," (paraphrased) on her facebook wall. 
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Jul 12, 2011 21:02
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CaptainScraps posted:At my gym, there's a female instructor who's really, really big into empowering her female students, which is a good thing. My sambo coach loves doing this with new students who ask why you don't just reach back and gouge someone's eyes when they're choking you out. He takes their back and encourages them to try their best to poke him in the eye, let's them fumble about for a few seconds and then applies a RNC. They forget about the eyes real fast, what with being too busy trying to tap out, making funny throat noises and falling asleep.
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Jul 12, 2011 21:07
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I did learn that if you are choking someone and they go for your eyes, you shove your face into their neck and it pretty much takes that off the table.
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Jul 12, 2011 21:16
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Xguard86 posted:I did learn that if you are choking someone and they go for your eyes, you shove your face into their neck and it pretty much takes that off the table. This is my problem with krav maga: some of the "self-defenses" are really, really, really dumb. But they're not really meant for me to use.
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Jul 12, 2011 21:18
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