|
cendien posted:Out of curiosity, is this because the legal market in Austin is next to nonexistent? Or hiring, at least. Very small and very crowded. A major law school is here and everyone loves this city. And every attorney knows every attorney. Fun fact #1: A local probate firm put out a job posting for an entry level position. They received 375 applications. Fun fact #2: the local battered women's shelter had a large number of Harvard law grads interviewing for a staff position, in addition to everyone else. Some of those grads said it was because they couldn't get a job elsewhere.
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 16:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 22:48 |
|
|
Vander posted:This one bothers me the most. I also love its brother: "I was talking to this partner at a law firm and he said that what the cops did totally violated my rights!" Either the partner hasn't actually practiced or studied crim law in 15 years, or he'll say anything to get the retainer and then get the guy to plead because "this judge has it in for me." (But if you have $15,000 he will absolutely win the case on appeal)
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 17:07
|
|
|
cendien posted:Out of curiosity, is this because the legal market in Austin is next to nonexistent? Or hiring, at least. Also the AG has been essentially on hiring freeze for a couple years, though rumor has it that might change with the end of this leg session.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 17:07
|
|
|
joat mon posted:Either the partner hasn't actually practiced or studied crim law in 15 years, or he'll say anything to get the retainer and then get the guy to plead because "this judge has it in for me." (But if you have $15,000 he will absolutely win the case on appeal)
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 18:48
|
|
|
nm posted:To be fair a lot of them whine and rarely about their actual rights. Or the flipside of it, where you do well and get "you're just as good as a real lawyer"
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 19:00
|
|
|
nm posted:Or the guy practices in a state where civil rights still exist. (I think Minnesota and Maine still have not abolished civil rights, but they're endangered in MN) Washington state, where our supreme court says that our version of the 4th Amd is stricter than the federal one, but "the analysis is the same as the federal constitution" anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 19:27
|
|
|
This came into my inbox and thought people in this thread might be interested in it, since it's not something that would typically come up in a lawyer job search. Sorry if this isn't the right place to post this- if not I'll edit it out. The Berkeley Center for Law & Technology is looking for a Digital Library Fellow: Qualifications: A successful candidate for the Digital Library Fellowship will hold a J.D. and will have experience with copyright issues, preferably those facing digital libraries, as well as demonstrated excellent research and writing skills, organizational and planning skills, substantive knowledge of both U.S. and international copyright law, and proven knowledge of and commitment to open access principles. Salary range is $62,532 – $86,316 depending on experience. The University offers excellent health and retirement benefits which can be viewed online at http://atyourservice.ucop.edu/. More information about the position at http://www.law.berkeley.edu/bclt.htm
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 19:43
|
|
|
Ainsley McTree posted:Or the flipside of it, where you do well and get "you're just as good as a real lawyer" "When you get out and have your own practice, I'm going to hire you!" (Because he could not conceive that a good lawyer would remain with the PD) "It's OK, Mama, he's a public defender AND a lawyer!" But there's always more of: "Man, how come you ain't working for me?!" (After getting the trafficking amount of drugs (life without) that fell out of his rear end suppressed, but failing to get the possession amount (4-20) in his pocket suppressed)
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 22:55
|
|
|
entris posted:I've been told twice by my future boss that I'm getting an offer, but that they are waiting on the numbers to be signed off by the head of the department. I am moving to a new city to take this job, and my wife and I are looking for apartments in the new city. Unfortunately, we can't get an apartment without proof of employment, so I'm stuck in this weird limbo where I'm hoping the offer letter comes any day (which it might) and I am pushing ahead looking at apartments. I hate to be a downer, even though that is the purpose of this thread, but: until you have actually signed employment papers you don't really have a job. I had an offer--the place I was going after law school--yanked two weeks before graduation. I also had a half-dozen promises of an offer as soon as the employer was ready to hire. None of them ever came through. As uncomfortable as it may be to put pressure on a potential employer, you really need to sign employment paperwork before you make your move. The worst thing is if--or when--you move and then, shock, the job isn't there.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2011 23:39
|
|
|
joat mon posted:"When you get out and have your own practice, I'm going to hire you!" Many criminal defendants (frequently rightly) perceive their court-appointed counsel as just another part of the system that wants to put them in jail. It doesn't mean they deserve half-assed representation or deserve to be represented by a guy who not only hates his job as a PD, but apparently hates the whole field of criminal law and is dismayed that it is "stressful."
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 01:24
|
|
|
joat mon posted:"When you get out and have your own practice, I'm going to hire you!" One of the 1/2 contract public defenders where I'm at had a guy come into his office to try to hire him as private counsel; he had to turn the guy down but then when he showed up at the main PD office and found he was assigned that guy's case. I think he swapped cases with someone else to save the guy some embarrassment. J Miracle posted:Do your clients a favor and quit. The last thing anyone needs when they encounter the U.S. criminal justice system is a checked-out miserable former DA for a lawyer, who thinks that people asserting rights are "whining." If I was going to vent after a tough day I probably should have been much more specific. As a prosecutor, if all the Defense attorneys did was file meritorious motions I'd have loved it. While I was there there was a certain amount of cattiness and hard feelings between the prosecutors and the local defense bar as a result of the elections. I think that may have colored my perspective. As for the miserableness the job is very stressful and the learning curve is astronomical even after a year of doing it; I live in perpetual fear of not catching some meritorious claim or not doing some neat strategy or not being as good of a negotiator as some of the better neighborhood defense attorneys. It's frustrating as poo poo knowing that I can scrape and scrape and scrape for a good plea deal and it seems like I cannot get as good of an offer as some of the more experienced attorneys that who will just phone up the prosecutor, "Heeyy Bob, how about a 1-2, eh?"..."Oh okay!". It's probably their facts, sure, but I can't help getting that impression. I always want to do the best job possible, but the thing about being an attorney it is hard to be certain of that and any mistake you make hurts someone else. Also anyone else getting blowback from the Casey Anthony acquittal? If only I was that guy. 
Torpor fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jul 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 01:41
|
|
|
Edit: eep! double post.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 01:56
|
|
|
Torpor posted:One of the 1/2 contract public defenders where I'm at had a guy come into his office to try to hire him as private counsel; he had to turn the guy down but then when he showed up at the main PD office and found he was assigned that guy's case. I think he swapped cases with someone else to save the guy some embarrassment. I don't understand this. The guy tried to hire the PD with his own money, and while I'm not a PD that seems like it'd be a pretty strong endorsement of his skills and pretty flattering. Why would he swap the case with someone else? How's that embarrassing to anyone? Seems like it would just be a pretty funny and interesting coincidence.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 02:28
|
|
|
Chriswizard posted:This came into my inbox and thought people in this thread might be interested in it, since it's not something that would typically come up in a lawyer job search. Sorry if this isn't the right place to post this- if not I'll edit it out. Want to add that if anyone is serious about pursuing this I'm happy to look into it more, having some access to these people and all.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 02:49
|
|
|
prussian advisor posted:I don't understand this. The guy tried to hire the PD with his own money, and while I'm not a PD that seems like it'd be a pretty strong endorsement of his skills and pretty flattering. Why would he swap the case with someone else? How's that embarrassing to anyone? Seems like it would just be a pretty funny and interesting coincidence. "Contract public defender" almost certainly either refers to a private attorney who takes on overflow work, or a private attorney registered with the PD conflict registry. Either way, they're private attorneys and take oodles of cases privately for oodles of money. They just also take PD cases. They probably talked business, then the defendant decided he couldn't afford a private attorney and applied PD. The PD system randomly assigned it to the same attorney. Thus the switch. Also you guys' PD offices suck. I really like our PDs and think they're neat and we have a close working relationship (so far).
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 03:07
|
|
|
prussian advisor posted:I don't understand this. The guy tried to hire the PD with his own money, and while I'm not a PD that seems like it'd be a pretty strong endorsement of his skills and pretty flattering. Why would he swap the case with someone else? How's that embarrassing to anyone? Seems like it would just be a pretty funny and interesting coincidence. He almost unwittingly hired the PD as an attorney. A lot of people here apply for a public defender while they're at a court house and then go home and talk and summon up funds to hire a private attorney. Some people also don't tell the whole truth on their financial affidavits. Torpor fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Jul 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 03:08
|
|
|
prussian advisor posted:I don't understand this. The guy tried to hire the PD with his own money, and while I'm not a PD that seems like it'd be a pretty strong endorsement of his skills and pretty flattering. Why would he swap the case with someone else? How's that embarrassing to anyone? Seems like it would just be a pretty funny and interesting coincidence. Perhaps it is because the client didn't have enough money.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 03:19
|
|
|
Torpor posted:It's frustrating as poo poo knowing that I can scrape and scrape and scrape for a good plea deal and it seems like I cannot get as good of an offer as some of the more experienced attorneys that who will just phone up the prosecutor, "Heeyy Bob, how about a 1-2, eh?"..."Oh okay!". This is only going to work in some places, some places the DA is a bunch of jackasses, but it is useful as it is one of our greatest advantages is that everyone knows us.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 04:41
|
|
|
nm posted:This is only going to work in some places, some places the DA is a bunch of jackasses, but it is useful as it is one of our greatest advantages is that everyone knows us. Agreed. Towards the end of my year as a PD I got a couple dismissals I don't think I otherwise would have gotten. Having a long history helps. If the DA is offering something ridiculous I can say why are you treating him different than Mr. Smith, Mr. Johnson, and Mr. Jones? They can't BS me. And when there's no BS, you start talking about what's provable at trial and what a jury will buy or not buy as opposed to how objectively bad your client's conduct was.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 04:53
|
|
|
Also you start to get a feel for which prosecutors are lazy whores slash are afraid of trials and will give really good deals because they don't like trials
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 07:28
|
|
|
Stunt Rock posted:Is this a paying gig? Hrmmmmm. Also add me to the list of people waiting for a call back on a job "this week" The last time I posted a real LAWJOB, nobody was interested. It is weird that people are tripping over themselves to go to Barrow, Alaska, but nobody wants to move to Cleveland, Ohio.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 11:50
|
|
|
Well it is Ohio. (Still better than Alaska.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 12:11
|
|
|
Solomon Grundy posted:The last time I posted a real LAWJOB, nobody was interested. It is weird that people are tripping over themselves to go to Barrow, Alaska, but nobody wants to move to Cleveland, Ohio. Still not one person in this entire thread has sent me their resume when I've offered a couple times to give them to my dad who runs a small labor law firm in a really convenient location in downtown DC. It makes me wonder how hard people are actually trying here. He's not hiring now though. It pisses me off how so many future lawyers have dreams about glamorous do-gooder jobs that don't actually exist, but when there's an actual legal field that has jobs and doesn't pay badly and where you can feel good about helping workers and their families get pensions and other good things, nobody gives it a second glance.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 14:05
|
|
|
hypocrite lecteur posted:Also you start to get a feel for which prosecutors are lazy whores slash are afraid of trials and will give really good deals because they don't like trials Maybe it has to do with the fact that a prosecutor actually looks closely at the disclosure as opposed to glancing aka look at the charge, the damage/injury, and the accused's criminal record.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 14:41
|
|
|
Torpor posted:I live in perpetual fear of not catching some meritorious claim or not doing some neat strategy or not being as good of a negotiator as some of the better neighborhood defense attorneys. You've got to work hard on this right now. It is (in my opinion) a very dangerous mindset that is easy to fall into when practicing law, and it can have bad effects on your life. I have similar issues after practicing for 10 plus years, and it can reach a point where it can eat up your life. You don't want to have your non-office hours time be spent thinking about what you might have hosed up, whether you missed something in a contract. You don't want to wake up at three in the morning wondering whether that indemnification provision you drafted really catches all of the possibilities. If you can't correct it, I would actually pretty strongly advise finding a different line of work, because otherwise your life, not just your working life, can become pretty miserable. MoFauxHawk posted:Still not one person in this entire thread has sent me their resume when I've offered a couple times to give them to my dad who runs a small labor law firm in a really convenient location in downtown DC. It makes me wonder how hard people are actually trying here. He's not hiring now though. I'll go one better. I'm a partner in a large Twin Cities law firm. I'm listed in the alumni contacts directory, and have said it is okay to contact me. In my ten plus years of practice (including five plus as a partner), I've been contacted by exactly one student from my law school.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 15:55
|
|
|
Penguins Like Pies posted:I think it's ridiculous that someone can get a better deal pleading guilty the day of the trial rather than entering an early guilty plea, despite the fact that an early guilty plea should be a mitigating factor (in Canada anyways). It's also the fact that when you're doing your first appearance, receiving disclosure, setting down a date, there's basically no upside to the prosecutor to stay a charge. Might as well set a date and let someone deal with it, even if there's no reasonable prospect of conviction you get the deals monday morning of trial week when the crowns assigned realize there's no earthly way they're getting through all the poo poo set down for trial and start culling the herd
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 16:57
|
|
|
hypocrite lecteur posted:It's also the fact that when you're doing your first appearance, receiving disclosure, setting down a date, there's basically no upside to the prosecutor to stay a charge. Might as well set a date and let someone deal with it, even if there's no reasonable prospect of conviction Where I'm at, we have a resolution process to expedite things. Basically, you fill out a sheet while the file is still in docket and wait for an offer. The letter usually says it's the lowest they can go. Complete bull. Where I worked last summer, it was frequent occurrence for our offers to go from 18 months probation to community services hours with no criminal record or peace bonds once the matter is set for trial. What's the point in having a resolution unit to speed things up if the Crowns don't actually take a careful look at the file? We've had Crowns give illegal sentences or jail for first time offenders who stole cosmetics. Jail should be reserved for those who deserve it, not because some 18 year old girl decided to steal a $20 lipstick from Sephora. /rant
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 17:19
|
|
|
SlyFrog posted:I'll go one better. I'm a partner in a large Twin Cities law firm. I'm listed in the alumni contacts directory, and have said it is okay to contact me. In my ten plus years of practice (including five plus as a partner), I've been contacted by exactly one student from my law school. That said, if you're hiring, I'm admitted in MN and want to move back to the TC. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 18:06
|
|
|
Torpor posted:I live in perpetual fear of not catching some meritorious claim or not doing some neat strategy or not being as good of a negotiator as some of the better neighborhood defense attorneys. SlyFrog posted:You've got to work hard on this right now. It is (in my opinion) a very dangerous mindset that is easy to fall into when practicing law, and it can have bad effects on your life. I have similar issues after practicing for 10 plus years, and it can reach a point where it can eat up your life. You don't want to have your non-office hours time be spent thinking about what you might have hosed up, whether you missed something in a contract. You don't want to wake up at three in the morning wondering whether that indemnification provision you drafted really catches all of the possibilities. I think that's exactly how you should feel if you've been working as an attorney for all of 14 months and working as a PD for 8 or 9 of those months. If Topor didn't feel like that, then he/she might actually merit some of J Miracle's invective. If that fear paralyzes you and makes you avoidant, then you need to find a mentor who will push you as well as teach you or a different line of work. If you don't care enough about your clients to feel that fear, then please find a different line of work - your clients deserve better. So long as that fear of failing your client keeps you moving forward and working, researching, investigating, and asking advice (do this a lot) you'll be OK. It took me about two years as a PD to lose the constant 'oh crap, what am I missing' feeling. The fear will stop being perpetual, but it won't go away. I've got oral argument on my first capital appeal coming up in a couple of months. There are a lot of motivators, but fear of what happens if I fail is definitely one of them. That fear should never go away, whether you've been practicing 1 or 17 or 34 years. On the other hand, balancing that fearsome responsibility to your client and your responsibilities to yourself and your loved ones is hard. Sly Frog's warning is absolutely real. I shorted my family a great deal, and it's only been in the past few years that I've been able to work out a healthier balance.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 18:12
|
|
|
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/07/how-law-schools-are-helping-elite.htmlquote:In 2010, tuition at Yale was $48,340, plus $18,900 in estimated living expenses. About 45 percent of the incoming students paid full price. In rounded terms, nearly 25 percent received a remission of half or more of tuition, 29 percent received less than half, and no student received a full tuition scholarship. At Harvard a bit more than half of the entering JD students paid full price; tuition was $45,026, with estimated living expenses of $22,874. At Stanford half of the students paid full price; tuition was $44,121, plus $23,739 in living expenses. Harvard and Stanford handed out a number of full scholarships, but otherwise their scholarship numbers were in the same range as Yale’s. The top schools, with some variation, distribute scholarships roughly along these lines: 50 percent of the students pay full fare, 25 percent get a discount of half or more, 25 percent get less than half off, and a handful of students enjoy full scholarships.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 19:04
|
|
|
yeah I'm not buying that people are turning down Yale for Duke. Wealthy elite attend HYS because they've been groomed for it. also the author doesn't seem familiar with HYS need-based aid. My parents are employed in two of the jobs the author lists as middle-class and HYS need-based aid ended up giving me more money than Duke or any other T14 except maybe one did, and that's still only a difference of a few thousand dollars. The author also talks about the necessity of working in biglaw if you have HYS debt, but 70%~ of HLS' class ends up doing that anyway. A majority of law school students want to work in biglaw, debt or no. It could be worse. Law schools could actually care about your undergraduate school. There's a large degree of merit involved in law school admissions, at least, and one's decisions prior to one's undergraduate education isn't too strongly held against them. The entire premise seems sort of self-defeating when you look at the fact that HYS are the only schools that help students out, scholarship-wise, based on financial need. It would likely be more accurate to compare the non-HYS T15 to T1 and T2 schools, I imagine that might result in a more fruitful point about the domination of the wealthy elite among elite law schools. topheryan fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jul 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 20:57
|
|
|
HYS also give pretty good loan repayment assistance, so no one's actually forced into Biglaw.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 21:24
|
|
|
nm posted:As a UMN alum (if you're UMN), I will say that no one has ever pointed anyone to this list. I didn't even really knew it existed. Nope, Michigan, sorry.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 23:29
|
|
|
Our good friend Dan Dargon has been ordered to pay $250,000 in fines / restitution to people he scammed with his unlicensed loan originations, loan modifications, and debt settlements http://www.nh.gov/banking/10-004-ford-20110630.pdf
Linguica fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jul 13, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2011 23:43
|
|
|
SlyFrog posted:Nope, Michigan, sorry. I think they don't tell students about this poo poo. Unfortunately the UMN alum network here in CA is pretty weak.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 00:26
|
|
|
I got my job out of school through those lists. Nobody I talked to was hiring, but one guy I had lunch with (during which time we whined about a lovely professor we shared for an hour) pointed me to a friend of his. That said, there were probably 200 attorneys on that list and I contacted over half of them, 99% of the time I had the same results as sending resumes out blindly. But that probably has a lot to do with me being an obviously lovely attorney. As for you guys and your dads who never got contacted, I'm willing to bet there's just not many people in this thread that live in their cities. I know I definitely felt like I was never ever going to leave Chicago after passing the bar, it feels like you're trapped forever.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 01:00
|
|
|
diospadre posted:As for you guys and your dads who never got contacted, I'm willing to bet there's just not many people in this thread that live in their cities. I know I definitely felt like I was never ever going to leave Chicago after passing the bar, it feels like you're trapped forever. I think I'm the only one who mentioned my dad and I'm in Washington, DC, one of the biggest legal markets and a popular and desirable metropolitan area. It's also a state whose bar you can waive into if you pass in any other state, I think. If people here are willing to move from places like NYC to places like Alaska and Missouri to find jobs, they're willing to move to DC.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 01:06
|
|
|
Yeah that's true but has anyone actually moved anywhere like that (let's just not count Guam)?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 01:51
|
|
|
Rationally I know that only 15-20% of bar takers in Texas fail so why am I terrified? Hold me sweet lawgoons.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 03:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 22:48 |
|
|
Roger_Mudd posted:Rationally I know that only 15-20% of bar takers in Texas fail so why am I terrified? Have you been consistently studying? Have you done at least the majority of BarBri recommended assignments? Then you will be fine!
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2011 03:38
|
|
