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Melee attacks are definitely way weaker than any firearms in UA, but there are a few caveats. - Rolling a matched success on a weapon with a +6 bonus or better does firearms damage. - If your obsession skill is tied to your melee attack, you can get bonus cherries on matched successes ( you can't get cherry on firearms attacks ). - Some non-humans in the book, like automatons, do straight up firearms damage with their bare hands. Something like a chainsaw seems like it would do the same. - Sometimes, you don't want to kill a guy. Guns are maybe too good at killin' a guy. - Lastly, you can make up to three melee attacks in a round by splitting your total melee skill. Let's say I have Prison Shankin' at 70%. I full-focus on a guy for an extra 30, bringing my Shank skill to 100%. I can now split that into two attacks at 50% each. If I roll a 40 and a 35, I've dealt 14 ( + 6 for my shank ) and 8 (+6 again ). A frenzied flurry of blows can really wreck a guy up. You could split firearms attacks in the same way, but you almost never want to, because you'll only be reducing the amount of damage (unless you're using a peashooter with a low max damage). The other thing to keep in mind with UA, and this is critical, is that it is not balanced at all. Some adept classes are infinitely better than others. It's up to the DM to balance the game on the fly with narrative factors. Be hella careful letting a player decide to be both an adept and an avatar, or an automaton, because they will immediately catapult to mechanical stardom. I ran a global campaign with an automaton, and he soloed every combat, leaving the other players bored. (Automatons take firearms damage as melee, get two full attack actions a round and get a free dodge. They make great recurring NPC enemies because they are so drat hard to kill. ) I love UA - it is my absolute favorite system - but it can be difficult to keep things equal. EDIT: Dipsomancers. They can magically firearms your rear end with just two stiff drinks. A single boozehound on a bender can be a TPK. The combination of Masterless Man and Fleshworker is bloody unkillable. An executioner can deal firearms damage with any melee attack. But any of those guys, no matter how badass or dangerous, splat real nice when you hit them with your volvo. I guess the best thing to keep in mind is that anybody can kill anybody, at any time. That sense of danger is part of what I really liked about UA, so in that way it still works. Squidster fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Jul 13, 2011 |
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Jul 13, 2011 06:14
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Squidster posted:
Though a high skill avatar of the Warrior can ignore getting hit with guns or even cars if you are a member of the right group, going after him for the right reasons. Or any punk with a baseball bat could get lucky and cause some damage if they weren't part of the Avatar's personal opposition. I love the Warrior.
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Jul 13, 2011 15:03
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UA is a fun read, though I've never found a group that'd play it well. I'm not sure I would be able to play it well, really. I did really like the guy who was basically just James Randi, with the unconscious supernatural power to cause supernatural powers to fail in his area. I also liked how his 'dark secret' was that he really does just want to be able to have proof of magic, but won't believe it until someone can actually show it to him. That made me smile.
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Jul 13, 2011 15:25
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Mors Rattus posted:UA is a fun read, though I've never found a group that'd play it well. I'm not sure I would be able to play it well, really. Yeah I have this problem too. My group is fine with stuff like D&D and GammaWorld and I've gotten them to try stuff like Mouse Guard and some of my own homebrew games with good results but I just can't get UA to work for them. Its a real shame because I love the mechanics and style of the game. I ran them through a simplified version of the mechanics, no magic or madness meters, where they were a bunch of miserable goblins cutting through an old Mines of Moria style ruined fortress. They had to win points by disarming traps, finding treasure, or doing very goblin-y things while staying ahead of a group of Adventurers that start at the entrance a few turns behind them. They loved this so I set up a real UA game for the next week. I decided to run a scenario based off of John Dies at the End after reading someone's post in this thread and I just couldn't seem to get things to click. Everybody seemed to be enjoying the story and all the crazy things going on like getting a call on an egg mcmuffin from a friend PC they just saw die, but they just couldn't get into the madness meters and complained about how they kept failing rolls. I hope it hasn't soured them on the game and that I can bring out Bill in Three Persons later
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Jul 13, 2011 17:52
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Fenarisk posted:Just found out this cool dude lives only an hour from my house Well then that confirms that the Greg Stolze that my friend took jujitsu with is indeed that Greg Stolze. So I've read this entire thread over the last few days and have basically become a fanboy without having read a word of his stuff. I'm trying to figure out where to start. Reign sounds incredibly badass but Wild Talents has those awesome settings like the Kwhatsit Club. Which one would be better for getting a feel for ORE?
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Jul 13, 2011 19:49
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I have achieved Reign ownership now. And I have to say, it has perhaps the most interesting take on mass combat, mass social interaction and really group-on-group anything I've seen in a while. Especially if you let everyone work out ways they can help the plans out. The mechanics of ORE look pretty interesting, and I love both Dindavara and the Empire. And Deathforging is basically the best magic, I love it. Who do I have to bribe to get them to run this game?
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Jul 13, 2011 19:58
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Chance: Why do they keep failing rolls? Now, admittedly I was taught to run UA rather than reading the rules and applying them directly, but my understanding has always been that you roll under the stat for most skill checks, and under the skill for opposed checks or checks made in combat. They shouldn't be failing that much. Or am I just used to a houseruled skill setup?
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Jul 13, 2011 20:07
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Incidentally: really, really liking that the game takes a few pages to explain how to optimize chargen for what you want to do, and why what looks good might not be as good as it seems.
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Jul 13, 2011 20:18
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Mors Rattus posted:Who do I have to bribe to get them to run this game? I'd totally run a PbP of it if (although probably not in the 'default' REIGN setting, which I have an intense and unreasonable dislike for) I could figure out a good way to handle the ED and MD without bogging everything down.
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Jul 13, 2011 20:20
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TouretteDog posted:I'd totally run a PbP of it if (although probably not in the 'default' REIGN setting, which I have an intense and unreasonable dislike for) I could figure out a good way to handle the ED and MD without bogging everything down. Well - you're going to have rolling dice anyway. Easiest ways seem to be: 1. When you know a roll is coming, ask the players to declare their EDs beforehand, arrange for a 'default' MD - the highest die if there are no matches, in X situations widen a match, in Y situations make a new match that is higher. Requires a bit more work, I guess. EDs could also use the 'I default to doing X except in Y situations' method. 2. Have players give email addresses, poke them via email. Alternatively, do so via IM, same deal. (And the non-default thing is a sadness for me, though. I'm really enjoying what I read here.)
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Jul 13, 2011 20:24
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counterspin posted:Chance: Why do they keep failing rolls? Now, admittedly I was taught to run UA rather than reading the rules and applying them directly, but my understanding has always been that you roll under the stat for most skill checks, and under the skill for opposed checks or checks made in combat. They shouldn't be failing that much. Or am I just used to a houseruled skill setup? They ignored my warnings not to spread themselves over a lot of skills and the skills they did pick were so esoteric in some cases that they were ill equipped for a lot of the things they were trying to do. The little primer game I made for them earlier had pre made characters with specific skills that they would need. They did okay overall but I got a sense that they were frustrated with the small bit of combat and I'm sure only half of them actually read the rules because those two made optimized one sided characters.
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Jul 13, 2011 20:31
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A wierd thing about UA is people are actually encouraged to make a lop-sided character since most PCs are obsessed individuals.
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Jul 13, 2011 21:08
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Chance II posted:They ignored my warnings not to spread themselves over a lot of skills and the skills they did pick were so esoteric in some cases that they were ill equipped for a lot of the things they were trying to do. That is weird, because percentile skills are literally the easiest system in the world to figure out. It's not 'add four dice and reach a arbitrary abstract DC', it's straight-up x% chance of success. If your life depends on a skill with a 10% chance of success, your dude is going to die nine times out of ten.
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Jul 13, 2011 21:09
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Mors Rattus posted:UA is a fun read, though I've never found a group that'd play it well. I'm not sure I would be able to play it well, really. Try running Jailbreak (by Stolze!) or something else from the One-Shots sourcebook. Each of the 5 modules is a very different take on running UA by a different author. Maybe on of the others will float your boat.
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Jul 13, 2011 21:18
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rantmo posted:Reign sounds incredibly badass but Wild Talents has those awesome settings like the Kwhatsit Club. Which one would be better for getting a feel for ORE? You could always get the Reign Enchiridion or Wild Talents Essential Edition for $10 if you just want the system without the setting materials.
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Jul 13, 2011 21:44
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I'd considered the rules-only versions but I get the feeling that I'd miss out on a lot without the settings and since I'll probably end up buying the full thing anyway it seems a little silly to buy it twice.
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Jul 13, 2011 22:00
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Unless you really like hard copy, I suggest you get the PDF from drivethrustuff. It's cheaper, for one, and you get it instantly.
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Jul 13, 2011 22:23
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Can anyone give me advice on actually running UA? I want to run a short PBP scenario because I tend to be a pretty mediocre GM and I'd like to work on getting better.
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Jul 13, 2011 22:32
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Squidster posted:That is weird, because percentile skills are literally the easiest system in the world to figure out. It's not 'add four dice and reach a arbitrary abstract DC', it's straight-up x% chance of success. Yeah, unfortunately the two guys that really read the rules are the only ones with percentile system experience. I figure I'll try again when everyone has more free time although I'm afraid I'm going to have to fight to get them to let me run anything but 4e Dnd or World of Darkness. Keeping in mind that at least half the group doesn't have time to study rule books, do you think it would be better introduce adepts and the occult underground gradually? What would be a good way to do it. I think Bill in Three Persons makes a great intro to it but it seems a little off that a bunch of otherwise normal people would all of a sudden become the time of obsessives that would become adepts.
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Jul 13, 2011 22:35
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...you can play UA and have the characters be normal people? I always figured that to get involved with the occult underground, you had to be kind of obsessed to begin with. It's actually the problem I think I have with the idea of playing UA - the obsession and offness of characters is hard to write consistently without feeling like I'm...well, writing kind of fishmalky.
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Jul 13, 2011 22:38
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Mors Rattus posted:...you can play UA and have the characters be normal people? UA works great as a horror game where you've got the PCs as completely normal people whose lives get completely and utterly hosed by the magical world.
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Jul 13, 2011 22:43
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Here's my suggestion for both Sombrebro and Chance II - make the PCs employees of The New Inquisition. Tell them it's like the FBI, except they have no oversight except each other and neck-breaking Ahnold. You can give them normal RPG-style missions of 'go find villain X! Kill him!' and 'go find mcGuffin Y! Kill anyone who gets in your way!' As TNI tends to attract people who already have the stock D&D murderhobo mindset, it works as a good start to ease PCs into a more realized world. Plus, they have a reason to be facing FaceRipper McMagicstein instead of just curiosity or obsession. Edit: One fun aspect we've often enjoyed is having a party of outgunned mundanes thrown up against Magickal Bullshit. It gives a good sense of the modern world triumphing over arcane bullshit. Snipe those wizzards before they see you, or hit them with your honda! (gun)Fighter supremacy! Squidster fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Jul 13, 2011 |
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Jul 13, 2011 22:45
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Thanks that sounds like a good idea and my guys tend to work better when there is a defined command structure to tell them to go murder things.
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Jul 13, 2011 22:47
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REIGN and Wild Talents are both excellent books that each have the same super-basics of the ORE system (which, honestly, could be summarized a single post), and each can be used as a different kind of generic system, but WT is slightly closer to being "universal". REIGN is more focused on "gritty fantasy"-type play.
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Jul 13, 2011 22:56
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It might be worth making a seperate ORE thread since though it started as Greg's baby it isn't any longer. (MaoCT, the Wild Talents splat books) And to cross the threads a little bit, check out NEMESIS. It's ORE with the UA madness tracks bolted on and it's free on the web. If UA straight doesn't float your players boat, NEMESIS might.
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Jul 13, 2011 23:35
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rantmo posted:I'd considered the rules-only versions but I get the feeling that I'd miss out on a lot without the settings and since I'll probably end up buying the full thing anyway it seems a little silly to buy it twice. REIGN isn't really that tied to the setting, and states so in the book/rules. Honestly REIGN would work just fine in most fantasy settings, since the abilities, skills, and company rules could really be used for anything. It is probably one of the crunchiest ORE applications though (with hit locations, hit points, etc) as opposed to A Dirty World or some of the others. Hell you could make REIGN rules work just fine in Eberron.
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Jul 13, 2011 23:41
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Xand_Man posted:And to cross the threads a little bit, check out NEMESIS. It's ORE with the UA madness tracks bolted on and it's free on the web. If UA straight doesn't float your players boat, NEMESIS might. Nemesis may be free on the web, but it is a little hard to track down - the homepage has been dead for a long time.
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Jul 13, 2011 23:45
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Fenarisk posted:REIGN isn't really that tied to the setting, and states so in the book/rules. Honestly REIGN would work just fine in most fantasy settings, since the abilities, skills, and company rules could really be used for anything. It is probably one of the crunchiest ORE applications though (with hit locations, hit points, etc) as opposed to A Dirty World or some of the others. Hell you could make REIGN rules work just fine in Eberron. Also Stolze released all the other settings he's written for free. So the only one you get for paying for it is REIGN, the others are free on his website.
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Jul 13, 2011 23:48
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rantmo posted:Well then that confirms that the Greg Stolze that my friend took jujitsu with is indeed that Greg Stolze. There's a free ORE game called Nemesis. http://www.arcdream.com/dennis/NEMESIS.pdf It has the UA sanity system 
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Jul 13, 2011 23:53
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Check out Xand_Man's post just a bit above yours. Speaking of that post... Xand_Man posted:It might be worth making a seperate ORE thread since though it started as Greg's baby it isn't any longer. (MaoCT, the Wild Talents splat books) I mostly think of this as the ORE thread, with official mascot and favorite cool dude, Greg Stolze. I mean, if we had a Gary Gygax thread, it probably would have a fair amount of discussion on editions and games that he had no direct part in, but that were part of a movement he symbolizes.
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Jul 14, 2011 00:00
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clockworkjoe posted:There's a free ORE game called Nemesis. http://www.arcdream.com/dennis/NEMESIS.pdf I just found this for the first time and it is sooooo good. Like, a go-to for a mortals game over nwod good. On that note though I noticed in Nemesis (maybe I never noticed it anywhere else), that everyone announces what they're doing before rolls. How do people know to dodge or block before an action occurs? Also, I imagine it leads to a bunch of times where it's just someone beating on a guy and the guy defending round and round, choosing to eventually go down slowly or forsake the defense to just get beat on and get put down in the end. Am I missing something? Is this just for Nemesis, because I swear you picked how you defend in A Dirty World once the attack was coming and it didn't affect how else you could act in the round.
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Jul 14, 2011 01:40
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Fenarisk posted:On that note though I noticed in Nemesis (maybe I never noticed it anywhere else), that everyone announces what they're doing before rolls. How do people know to dodge or block before an action occurs? Also, I imagine it leads to a bunch of times where it's just someone beating on a guy and the guy defending round and round, choosing to eventually go down slowly or forsake the defense to just get beat on and get put down in the end. Am I missing something? Is this just for Nemesis, because I swear you picked how you defend in A Dirty World once the attack was coming and it didn't affect how else you could act in the round. And yes, ganging up is very effective; every time you're hit before your action, you lose one die off your pool. If you drop below two dice, you lose your action.
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Jul 14, 2011 01:47
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TouretteDog posted:I'd totally run a PbP of it if (although probably not in the 'default' REIGN setting, which I have an intense and unreasonable dislike for) I could figure out a good way to handle the ED and MD without bogging everything down. Thinking more on this, I think the 'this is what I default to' option is best. Since EDs and MDs are only used in skills you've bought them in (outside special situations, like aiming in combat), you will generally be using them in the same situations and can thus declare 'and unless I say otherwise, do X'. In combat, well, that's a more player-choice-intensive thing regardless. I don't actually know how PBPs usually handle it.
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Jul 14, 2011 04:12
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TouretteDog posted:UA works great as a horror game where you've got the PCs as completely normal people whose lives get completely and utterly hosed by the magical world. I ran a game where mundanes got pulled into the occult underground, and for the reason that they weren't crazy obsessives like everyone else, all the movers and shakers took interest in them.
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Jul 14, 2011 07:20
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While we're on Nemesis, I don't know how WT does it but reign explains how to do difficulty modifiers a bit confusingly. Nemesis does it much, much better on pages 9 and 10. Go read it. I find it good because if you can't decide what catagory the penalty falsl into, you probably need to have a think about why you want to make it harder in the first place.
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Jul 14, 2011 11:39
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Mors Rattus posted:Thinking more on this, I think the 'this is what I default to' option is best. Since EDs and MDs are only used in skills you've bought them in (outside special situations, like aiming in combat), you will generally be using them in the same situations and can thus declare 'and unless I say otherwise, do X'.
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Jul 14, 2011 12:32
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Wouldn't the default for the expert die be 10, unless otherwise noted?
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Jul 14, 2011 16:20
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Dear Greg Stolze please make a game system as good as ORE but with d6's so as tackle the barrier for new players to the market (ie - not normal people dice) thanks in advance  Edit: Would it really break things if players were allowed to defend each round against attacks rather than splitting the pool up from deciding how to act prior? Kind of like how A Dirty World does it. Fenarisk fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Jul 14, 2011 |
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Jul 14, 2011 18:05
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You could pretty easily replace the d10s with d6s for an intro scenario or two if need be. The character creation and hit location wouldn't work as written, obviously but other than that it would mostly work. The chance of getting a match goes up much faster, but the basic Width*Height mechanic would be unchanged, which is the key thing to understand mechanically. Allowing a defense each round wouldn't break things, I don't think, just make combat less lethal and require more dice rolls. I do think the fact that each round each participant rolls one set of dice is one of the elegant things about the system, compared to almost every other game where you might have a roll to hit, a roll to dodge, a roll for damage, a roll for damage location, etc. etc.
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Jul 14, 2011 20:00
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I guess another option is that rather than splitting dice between a normal action and the choice to defend, players roll normally but if attacked can use some of their matches as gobble die from a normal action. It brings the option where a player can choose to ignore the attack to use a single match, to skip their action to defend instead, or to benefit from multiple matches to both defend and do their action they planned. Not inflicting the -1 die penalty to the pool would help this out (since it's not stated multiple action), and there would be no additional rolling needed.
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Jul 14, 2011 20:37
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