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In this situation it would never have been a case of "oh what a twist!". If Miura had done everything exactly the same except for mentioning Femto was Griffith at the beginning I think it would have been slightly better. You were always going to realise that Griffith would become Femto because of the crimson behelit, the fact that Guts was so close to Griffith and Griffith's deal with destiny etc. It just would have been more gradual and satisfying rather than an in your face payoff at the very beginning. I'm sure the reason Miura did it was to suck in readers at the beginning to lessen the chances of getting cancelled. He's great at storytelling but it really would have been in his best interest. Zetman did exactly the same thing with just a couple of pages at the very start. U-DO Burger posted:By contrast, the first arc in the manga sets the story up by showing you what Griffith was going to become. The starting arc was definitely important, it just didn't need to flat out state Femto is this guy called Griffith who used to be friends with Guts. We were going to find that out anyway along the way.
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Jul 11, 2011 16:47
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canned_fruit posted:The starting arc was definitely important, it just didn't need to flat out state Femto is this guy called Griffith who used to be friends with Guts. We were going to find that out anyway along the way. So? It doesn't mean that giving the information before hand wasn't important. It deliberately colored your perspective of the following arc. Griffith is easy to like, but it's a restless thing since you know poo poo is going to hit the fan, and you know he'll be at the center of it. So you naturally distrust him while reading it, which makes following his interactions with Guts all the more interesting.
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Jul 11, 2011 17:10
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People are just obsessive about anything that can be seen as a spoiler because they want MAXIMUM ENTERTAINMENT from a story. A story's premise should be compelling enough that you don't need spoilers to generate interest. But a story should be compelling enough in itself that spoilers don't ruin the experience. Everyone knows how Romeo and Juilet ends but its still well worth reading. You can't live and die by individual plot points and Berserk is bigger than Griffith becomes Femto. Hell, if you are reading this, the story is still going to be awesome regardless if you knew that Griffith becomes Femto.
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Jul 11, 2011 17:22
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Berserk: Maximum Entertainment One of the remarkable things about this series is the fact that the early Griffith/Femto reveal doesn't stop you from being shocked by the magnitude of the betrayal. The relationship between Guts and Griffith is well developed enough that it's easy to forget that it will end badly. This makes the eclipse a monumental plot point, even though the reader knows that something bad is coming up. A well crafted twist doesn't need to be a surprise.
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Jul 11, 2011 20:43
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Yeah Griffith being spoiled as Femto isn't a huge deal because it is basically impossible to know just how loving bad the Eclipse is going to be beforehand.
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Jul 11, 2011 20:46
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Zorak posted:... and then we're introduced to their beginning: a young man who knows only battle but is actually very fragile and lonely, and a young men who seeks ambition only to improve people's lives. And then it all falls apart at the crucial moment, orchestrated in the grand tragedy of events. The fact that these events are thematically ordained within the story itself with the specific effect of creating Femto makes the writing all the much better in that regard. It's deliberately poetic internally. I know I've posted this before, but one unique thing the golden age arc has going for it is that the structure was like a film noir. Film Noirs often had the structure of a tragedy, in that the story starts often near the end, and we see the story play out as mostly a flashback.(Double Indemnity being a perfect example of this.) The golden age arc had the same structure, and it adds a lot of tension, as you try and figure out how the characters are going to get where they are going to.
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Jul 11, 2011 22:22
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http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-07-12/berserk-golden-age-arc-to-be-made-into-3-anime-filmsquote:Berserk's Golden Age Arc to Be Made Into 3 Anime Films
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Jul 12, 2011 15:35
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By publicity character I hope they just mean their company's glorified news avatar. Three films for the Golden Age arc alone is amazing, it means we are more or less going to get a complete adaptation. And now I'm hoping they do the whole prologue.
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Jul 12, 2011 16:49
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So... that means the movies will be done sometime after the heat death of the universe.
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Jul 12, 2011 18:04
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Hey, it gives me something to look forward to over the next few decades.
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Jul 12, 2011 18:54
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On the other hand, I'm pretty sure stuff like this adds a level of tension to Miura that he has to keep pushing ahead, which is good.
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Jul 12, 2011 18:54
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Zorak posted:On the other hand, I'm pretty sure stuff like this adds a level of tension to Miura that he has to keep pushing ahead, which is good. This would be the same hope people have for an external driving force against GRRM's insistence to finish his super-series on his own time. Two drawn out sagas with TV/movie deals and contractual timelines. The fantasy world will implode under the collective hope of semi-regular release schedules.
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Jul 13, 2011 09:13
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Is Miura an extremely obese old man who could likely die at any second climbing up the stairs in his house though?
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Jul 13, 2011 10:53
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I know they both write about "edgy" "rapes" but can we please not talk about "the GRRM" here it makes me very uncomfortable.  Jose posted:Is Miura an extremely obese old man who could likely die at any second climbing up the stairs in his house though?
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Jul 13, 2011 11:04
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Jose posted:Is Miura an extremely obese old man who could likely die at any second climbing up the stairs in his house though? Oh, right, the Robert Jordan effect. Gordon R. Dickson and the Dorsai Cycle too 
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Jul 13, 2011 11:15
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Speaking of Song of Ice and Fire I just got the fifth book today. So YAY! But yeah, Miura just turned 45. Even considering how hard he works he's nowhere near to GRRM as far as risk of death goes. Hopefully. I hope he eats his vegetables. But anyway I know the series of movies is going to be finished. I know this because earlier this summer I discovered a small wormhole underneath my desk. Apparently it leads to the future and spits out future-y things occasionally. So far I've gotten a cool pair of laser sunglasses, a pen that works in zero-gravity (haven't gotten the chance to see if it actually works yet) and a book about the financial crisis of 2017 (hint: the CEO of Chase Bank isn't who he says he is). But this is the first time something Berserk-related has come out. I'm guessing it's a long-form poster for what I believe to be the FINAL Berserk movie. Unfortunately I can't read Japanese so I have no idea what it says. I post it here for your enjoyment. Spoilers though, clearly.  Ccs fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Jul 13, 2011 |
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Jul 13, 2011 18:34
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You can't link to imageshack from SA, use imgur or tinypic.
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Jul 13, 2011 18:37
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Ccs posted:a pen that works in zero-gravity (haven't gotten the chance to see if it actually works yet) We already have those.
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Jul 13, 2011 18:50
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Considering how many decades we have been regularly sending people into space, it would be incredibly strange if no one had designed such a pen.
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Jul 13, 2011 20:14
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I wouldn't compare ASOIAF to Berserk. It is a lot more soapy.
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Jul 13, 2011 21:06
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Nesetril posted:I wouldn't compare ASOIAF to Berserk. It is a lot more soapy. True, though soapyness in ASOIAF is handled well. The First Law is probably written most like what Berserk would be if it was a series of novels, as Logen Ninefingers is sort of similar to Guts. Of course one of the strengths of Gut's character is that so much of what he's thinking is hidden. His face demonstrates some of it, but he's much smarter than what you'd expect a muscled berserker type to be. quote:
Well apparently they still make them in the future.
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Jul 13, 2011 21:22
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KoB posted:We already have those. Yeah its called a pencil 
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Jul 13, 2011 21:38
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So I finally got around to reading through this series. Good stuff though some of the rape scenes seem a bit gratuitous. I then decided to read through the thread and came across this exchange from 2008.Diabetic posted:
What the gently caress have I gotten myself into. 7c Nickel fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jul 13, 2011 |
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Jul 13, 2011 22:15
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Jose posted:Yeah its called a pencil They don't use those in space. The graphite can break and mess things up. 
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Jul 13, 2011 22:19
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Anani Masu posted:
A glorious adventure.
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Jul 13, 2011 23:04
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Anani Masu posted:What the gently caress have I gotten myself into. Welcome to the sweet, sweet suffering that is Berserk.
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Jul 13, 2011 23:21
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Nesetril posted:I wouldn't compare ASOIAF to Berserk. It is a lot more soapy. I wasn't comparing content, I was comparing years since the series started and constant delays in release. To that, they are similar.
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Jul 14, 2011 02:08
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A teaser trailer About as long as those commercials that advertised the new manga volume Not sure about all that CG, but eh
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Jul 14, 2011 07:41
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Looks pretty sweet, also there is a bit with Guts with the dragonslayer/post eclipse gear, hopefully that means we get some form of the intro stuff.
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Jul 14, 2011 07:54
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OnimaruXLR posted:A teaser trailer Christ that looks awesome.
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Jul 14, 2011 08:07
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OnimaruXLR posted:A teaser trailer Looks loving awesome. Bad CG is just a reality of new anime movies though. I dunno. The rest of it makes up for it completely. After the new eva movies, which are loving gorgeous and have loving awful cg people like berserk, it's just something you gotta accept I suppose.
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Jul 14, 2011 08:56
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DamnGlitch posted:Looks loving awesome. Anime? It's the standard to animate extras and background elements with canned animation all over. The amount of money saved trumps the awkwardness.
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Jul 14, 2011 09:01
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So is this like a re-do of the original anime that was released? Are they going to have another part (or more) showing the later arcs (post-eclipse)?
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Jul 14, 2011 15:52
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hog wizard posted:So is this like a re-do of the original anime that was released? Are they going to have another part (or more) showing the later arcs (post-eclipse)? I believe the plan right now is to have the 3 movies covering the Golden Age, then continue with the rest of the story in some form. Whether the continuation will be standard episodes, more movies, or OVAs is still unknown, I think.
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Jul 14, 2011 16:09
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Andrigaar posted:The amount of money saved trumps the awkwardness. Well apparently. I don't like it but I can live with it. Like I said it's just a reality.
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Jul 14, 2011 16:15
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U-DO Burger posted:Not to mention that the Berserk anime did a terrible job of foreshadowing. Almost all of the supernatural stuff was cut, so when Griffith turned into Femto, I was not thinking about how shocking this turn of events was. I was thinking "Why is this even happening? There was nothing in the previous story that indicated that something like this was going to happen at all." It all felt pretty stupid. Is this where the "LAST EPISODE OF BERSERK WTF  " comes from?I read the manga first and even though I had the Eclipse spoiled for me, I could still see it coming a mile away. I've never sat through more than a couple of episodes of the anime, it was just so poor compared to the source. I can imagine the Eclipse coming outta nowhere probably blew the minds of a few 14-year-old anime fans back in the day.
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Jul 14, 2011 16:17
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Hatter106 posted:Is this where the "LAST EPISODE OF BERSERK WTF Everyone spoils it. Not what happens just that it's a terrible ending. So I was like "welp I guess that's pretty bad as bad endings go, but at least it leaves it open for a sequel"
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Jul 14, 2011 16:24
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That trailer looks awful and is a mishmash of different animation techniques. Hell poo poo looks wierd with the proportions too.  At least the original had a old timey look and feel to it which mirrored the universe.
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Jul 14, 2011 17:00
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My but Isma certainly has increased the level of underaged nudity in my nice, wholesome manga about genocide, rape, orgies, incestuous nobles, and man eating abominations against god. Will Berserk become another casualty of the next great ADTRW Pedo Purge, ending with Zorak being forced to turn his gun on himself? Find out next time on more TALES OF INTERNET! Also: We will always carry you on in our hearts, silly tentacle pirates.  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 14, 2011 17:05
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It's been six or seven years since I've seen the anime, but I don't feel that lack of foreshadowing is the real problem that people have with the ending. While it is true that a lot of the supernatural elements were downplayed, they were far from absent. Two apostles were included in the show, prior to the eclipse. If Nosferatu Zodd and Cobra Commander could exist, then why shouldn't there be others? The show also included the behelit, which came with at least two prophecies. The first was relayed to the audience by Griffith, after the playful, homoerotic water fight. The second came from Zodd, after he got tired of slapping Guts and Griffith around. Both of these pointed toward some bad poo poo going down eventually. There was plenty of reason to expect an unpleasant ending to the story. I think that most people aren't willing to admit that their real problem with the ending was how shocked they were by it. The betrayal, and violence, and death, and rape were all quite a bit worse than anything that we'd seen up to that point. These things were happening to characters that we'd grown to care about, and that made it even worse. A lot of the time, it's easier to say, "that makes no sense", than it is to say, "that was too horrible for me to accept".
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Jul 14, 2011 17:35
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