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Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Xguard86 posted:

I did learn that if you are choking someone and they go for your eyes, you shove your face into their neck and it pretty much takes that off the table.

Yep, this goes for any other situation too, really. Say if you're in someone's guard and they go for your eyes, you bury your face in their chest.

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Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Mechafunkzilla posted:

Yep, this goes for any other situation too, really. Say if you're in someone's guard and they go for your eyes, you bury your face in their chest.

especially if its a dreamboat like Arona or Popovitch.

Thoguh
Nov 8, 2002

College Slice

CaptainScraps posted:

At my gym, there's a female instructor who's really, really big into empowering her female students, which is a good thing.

Unfortunately, one of said female students posted "I'm not scared of people who do MMA, I'd just kick them in the junk and go for their eyes," (paraphrased) on her facebook wall.

:ughh:

The number of petite females who think that they are totally safe because they took a one hour self defense seminar is equal to or greater than the number of bros who think they could mop up in the UFC because they went to one BJJ class.

Office Sheep
Jan 20, 2007

Mechafunkzilla posted:

My sambo coach loves doing this with new students who ask why you don't just reach back and gouge someone's eyes when they're choking you out. He takes their back and encourages them to try their best to poke him in the eye, let's them fumble about for a few seconds and then applies a RNC. They forget about the eyes real fast, what with being too busy trying to tap out, making funny throat noises and falling asleep.

I didn't think chokes existed in Sambo so I looked it up and discovered freestyle Sambo is something that exists. I wish it was in my area, it seems quite fun.

Office Sheep fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Jul 12, 2011

Syphilis Fish
Apr 27, 2006

Mechafunkzilla posted:

Yep, this goes for any other situation too, really. Say if you're in someone's guard and they go for your eyes, you bury your face in their chest.

First of all, why can they sit up to reach your face to scratch if you're in their guard.

Second of all, if they sit up, why isnt a straight right landing in their face as they do so?

If eyepokes are allowed, so are strikes, right?

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Office Sheep posted:

I didn't think chokes existed in Sambo so I looked it up and discovered freestyle Sambo is something that exists. I wish it was in my area, it seems quite fun.

Yeah, my coach is the guy who founded it :)


Syphilis Fish posted:

First of all, why can they sit up to reach your face to scratch if you're in their guard.

Second of all, if they sit up, why isnt a straight right landing in their face as they do so?

If eyepokes are allowed, so are strikes, right?

I don't think you understand how the guard works. You don't need to "sit up" to reach someone's face.

Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Jul 13, 2011

Smegmatron
Apr 23, 2003

I hate to advocate emptyquoting or shitposting to anyone, but they've always worked for me.

Syphilis Fish posted:

Second of all, if they sit up, why isnt a straight right landing in their face as they do so?

Are you one of those weirdos who gets off on pain and has a broken elbow fetish?

Also yay I landed an arm triangle in sparring :unsmith:

Office Sheep
Jan 20, 2007

Mechafunkzilla posted:

Yeah, my coach is the guy who founded it :)

It's a good idea to try to lure over Judo and BJJ players. I also like the little shorts.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Office Sheep posted:

It's a good idea to try to lure over Judo and BJJ players. I also like the little shorts.

We're like right next to Marcelo Garcia's school so there's no shortage of cross training bros (and bro-ettes). Everyone just wears normal board shorts, though.

Office Sheep
Jan 20, 2007

Mechafunkzilla posted:

Everyone just wears normal board shorts, though.

That's a shame.

KingColliwog
May 15, 2003

Let's go droogs
Wow, going to a new dojo is such a great experience.

1=> My throws that never work because everyone knows how I play work all the time, that's so much fun
2=> It's so much fun to fight with new people/get to know new people
3=> You learn new tricks that you wouldn't have otherwise.

If anyone has the opportunity, I highly suggest you do it!

--

Also, I just started using underhooks in judo and I love it. I'll get a regular right handed grip. Then with my left hand I'll let go of their sleeve and go for the underhook and hip throw from the left. This is working really well for me right now, anyone else has experience with that?

--

I need a good way to break the closed guard... I was fighting against a black belt (girl) and she was owning me with her closed guard, I was sort of ashamed. Any good idea that would be judo legal? I tried log splitter and passing both elbows to no avail

KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Jul 13, 2011

molotoveverything
Oct 18, 2010
Has anyone here taken a Bas Rutten fight class before? I'm new to martial arts and the Krav Maga Worldwide place that I've started taking classes with recently is offering it.

What can I expect from a class like that?

G-Mawwwwwww
Jan 31, 2003

My LPth are Hot Garbage
Biscuit Hider

molotoveverything posted:

Has anyone here taken a Bas Rutten fight class before? I'm new to martial arts and the Krav Maga Worldwide place that I've started taking classes with recently is offering it.

Probably some boxing drills like bobbing and weaving, slipping, standing against the wall and bobbing while people throw some light punches at you, high covers, and then some thai clinch work. There may be some light sparring thrown in at the end.

You're probably going to get popped in the face a few times but it's good for you.

At the KMW gym I'm at, it's recommended you have at least 2 months of krav basics down. Talk to the instructor.



Also-- the KMW gym in Houston is putting in a model of an airplane fuselage so they can train air marshals. What the gently caress.

G-Mawwwwwww fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Jul 13, 2011

ManicParroT
Aug 31, 2007

by T. Finn
With regards to all the ball grabbing eye gouging:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxZKZsqWdFw

One of the better responses that I've seen online, it's part of a very good interview series with Draculino.

Incidentally, is it just me or is that one of the most :metal: names in BJJ?

zalmoxes
Sep 30, 2009

:eurovision:

ManicParroT posted:

With regards to all the ball grabbing eye gouging:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxZKZsqWdFw

One of the better responses that I've seen online, it's part of a very good interview series with Draculino.

Incidentally, is it just me or is that one of the most :metal: names in BJJ?

That was a good mix of humor and techniques. I'm sending it to the friend I had the ball grabbing discussion about.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

ManicParroT posted:

With regards to all the ball grabbing eye gouging:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxZKZsqWdFw

One of the better responses that I've seen online, it's part of a very good interview series with Draculino.

Incidentally, is it just me or is that one of the most :metal: names in BJJ?

There's a slew of reasons why you don't want to hang out in guard in a real self defense situation (or spend much time grappling at all, really) but getting your balls grabbed definitely isn't one of them.

Lascivious Sloth
Apr 26, 2008

by sebmojo

CaptainScraps posted:

This is my problem with krav maga: some of the "self-defenses" are really, really, really dumb. But they're not really meant for me to use.

Are you talking about getting out of air/blood chokes? You're not meant to focus on attacking the face/eyes, it's just a possible concequence of the method to get out of the lock (reach high and pull down on the wrists as you turn into their kidneys, follow through with the knee and finish.) If you mean in general, what "self-defenses" and why?

Thoguh
Nov 8, 2002

College Slice
http://www.amestrib.com/articles/2011/07/12/ames_tribune/news/doc4e1c610146d77297098424.txt

I stand corrected about my self-defense seminar statement from earlier. Apparently sometimes just having some confidence is all it takes.

Though going along with the discussion from earlier, the korean instructor who teahes that class's favorite thing to teach the first day of class for a semester is stuff along the lines of "Guy try to rape you, you kick the nuts". Though she didn't take that route.

Syphilis Fish
Apr 27, 2006

Mechafunkzilla posted:


I don't think you understand how the guard works. You don't need to "sit up" to reach someone's face.

Not to have a bullshit fight on the internet, but if you let him reach your face while you're in his guard you are doing something wrong as the top guy.

Yes he can try to bring you down to him. but why are you letting him? it is the top guys lack of skill which lets the bottom guy pull top guy down in whatever way. top guy should be able to maintain position.

If you are in his guard in an MMA/realfight situation, you should not be pulled down using whatever; hips, legs, hands etc, all good ways to bring you down to him, but if you do what youre supposed to be doing, it should all be in vain because you're not giving him any of those as options.

And I certainly can't believe that you think that the top guy should just lay in/on the bottom guys guard?


Smegmatron posted:

Are you one of those weirdos who gets off on pain and has a broken elbow fetish?

I understand you can armbar from guard. But see the above point; Top guy has to make a mistake for bottom guy to take op guys arm for an armbar/kimura/guard attack. You can only force moves on people who are weaker than you. And what's the point of that, since you can already beat them?


(Check this/the previous thread, I have some videos that'll show you that I've been competing/training for awhile if you doubt my credibility as a martial artist.)


REGARDLESS, this seems like a derail, we were on the subject of eyepokes ?

Syphilis Fish fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Jul 13, 2011

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Syphilis Fish posted:

Not to have a bullshit fight on the internet, but if you let him reach your face while you're in his guard you are doing something wrong as the top guy.

Yes he can try to bring you down to him. but why are you letting him? it is the top guys lack of skill which lets the bottom guy pull top guy down in whatever way. top guy should be able to maintain position.

If you are in his guard in an MMA/realfight situation, you should not be pulled down using whatever; hips, legs, hands etc, all good ways to bring you down to him, but if you do what youre supposed to be doing, it should all be in vain because you're not giving him any of those as options.

And I certainly can't believe that you think that the top guy should just lay in/on the bottom guys guard?

What are you talking about? Guard is a control position. If you're sitting postured up, even if the guy has his legs around you, you're not really in guard. Also the idea that if you're not posturing you're "doing something wrong" is hilarious. There are a lot of passes that don't involve posturing up.


quote:

I understand you can armbar from guard. But see the above point; Top guy has to make a mistake for bottom guy to take op guys arm for an armbar/kimura/guard attack. You can only force moves on people who are weaker than you. And what's the point of that, since you can already beat them?


(Check this/the previous thread, I have some videos that'll show you that I've been competing/training for awhile if you doubt my credibility as a martial artist.)


REGARDLESS, this seems like a derail, we were on the subject of eyepokes ?

The top guy has to make a mistake...like throwing punches from guard? That's, like, exactly what the bottom guy wants you to do to let him go for an armbar. Plus, if you "never made a mistake" you wouldn't be in guard in the first place. Fights don't always go exactly as you would like, because you've got a resisting opponent trying to exert his will on you. And don't pull the "I train" card, virtually everyone in this thread trains.

Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Jul 13, 2011

gunblade
Sep 1, 2008

-Just lucky, I guess

kimbo305 posted:

I've requested this like twice before but it can't hurt to try to find it again. It's a Youtube highlight real of some self-defense school. At one point, the instructor ducks a punch and proceeds to fake chain-punch the attacker in the balls. Anyone?

This it?

http://youtu.be/yzAVAJNzHtU


Also:

Mechafunkzilla posted:

My sambo coach loves doing this with new students who ask why you don't just reach back and gouge someone's eyes when they're choking you out. He takes their back and encourages them to try their best to poke him in the eye, let's them fumble about for a few seconds and then applies a RNC. They forget about the eyes real fast, what with being too busy trying to tap out, making funny throat noises and falling asleep.

I guess a lot of people have seen this, but here's Bas Rutten's retort to "eye-gougers": http://youtu.be/f0QeNFpq1Tw?t=8m15s (starting at around 8 minutes 15 seconds.)

gunblade fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Jul 13, 2011

Syphilis Fish
Apr 27, 2006

Mechafunkzilla posted:

What are you talking about? Guard is a control position. If you're sitting postured up, even if the guy has his legs around you, you're not really in guard. Also the idea that if you're not posturing you're "doing something wrong" is hilarious. There are a lot of passes that don't involve posturing up.


The top guy has to make a mistake...like throwing punches from guard? That's, like, exactly what the bottom guy wants you to do to let him go for an armbar. Plus, if you "never made a mistake" you wouldn't be in guard in the first place. Fights don't always go exactly as you would like, because you've got a resisting opponent trying to exert his will on you. And don't pull the "I train" card, virtually everyone in this thread trains.

First of all, I'm pretty sure that the textbook definition of being in someone's guard is : bottom guy is on his back & has his legs around top guy who is sitting up.

If you think throwing punches from guard is a mistake, then I will concede the argument to you. There is no arguing with someone who thinks that, except for gong sau. From my point of view, you have some clue what you're talking about, but believe to be infallible, grappled a whole year now?

Fontoyn
Aug 25, 2009

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Mechafunkzilla posted:

The top guy has to make a mistake...like throwing punches from guard? That's, like, exactly what the bottom guy wants you to do to let him go for an armbar. Plus, if you "never made a mistake" you wouldn't be in guard in the first place. Fights don't always go exactly as you would like, because you've got a resisting opponent trying to exert his will on you. And don't pull the "I train" card, virtually everyone in this thread trains.

Literally all I do from guard is throw punches to pass. Body-body-head-stand or simple knee pass is how I get through guard in the majority of my MMA sparring.

And takedowns into guard are fine because I don't like scrambles and most other takedowns I work with end in some kind of scramble because I suck at controlling people in midair.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

ManicParroT posted:

With regards to all the ball grabbing eye gouging:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxZKZsqWdFw

One of the better responses that I've seen online, it's part of a very good interview series with Draculino.

Incidentally, is it just me or is that one of the most :metal: names in BJJ?

Draculino is one of the coolest guys in bjj. He came through my old school twice a year and I never missed a seminar. He also does some of the most ridiculous poo poo, it's like matrix bjj.

Youtube is blocked at work so i can't watch the video, but if it's the same one I've seen before then the guy with the sideburns trying to bite his way out is was once the assistant instructor at my old school.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Syphilis Fish posted:

First of all, I'm pretty sure that the textbook definition of being in someone's guard is : bottom guy is on his back & has his legs around top guy who is sitting up.

If you think throwing punches from guard is a mistake, then I will concede the argument to you. There is no arguing with someone who thinks that, except for gong sau. From my point of view, you have some clue what you're talking about, but believe to be infallible, grappled a whole year now?

What I meant was that the armbar is a counter to someone throwing punches from a high posture in guard, and that the attitude that you would literally always be postured up in guard unless you "made a mistake" (completely ignoring the fact that you're not sparring with a mannequin) was dumb. And cut out the sarcastic poo poo with "grappled a whole year now?", it makes you look like a douchebag. I don't think my grappling knowledge is infallible at all, but the idea that someone will never be able to reach your head in guard unless you let them is silly. I guess that's why triangle and guillotine chokes literally never happen in high-level MMA :downs:

Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jul 13, 2011

Weebay
Apr 8, 2008

Reality is a question of perspective; the further you get from the past, the more concrete and plausible it seems - but as you approach the present, it inevitably seems incredible.

Bangkero posted:


Turns out another goon is also in the class so I'm in good company. :) I told him to check into the AT MA thread.


Hey Bangkero! Your CLF buddy here.

I was told the primary reason we are doing the knife work is to get used to the speed.

Winkle-Daddy posted:


Like my Krav instructor always says (not hyperbole, every goddamn time we do groin kicks) "What's better then a groin kick? Two groin kicks!"


Mine says this as well, along with "Strike early and strike often"

As to my experience with the practical application of groin strikes, sometimes they will take people right out other times they won't, it's unreliable, but if given the opportunity I won't hesitate.

I've got about 7 years of bouncing and 11 of martial arts under my belt and the most reliable thing we do is choke people out. There is always more than out of us, and it doesn't leave you looking like you really have anything to complain to the police about, if anything most people look stoned.

viewtyjoe
Jan 5, 2009
I'm going to be honest and admit I haven't read the whole thread due to time constraints, but I have two questions:

First, I'm interested in learning Aikido/Aiki Jiu-Jitsu, and I'm going to assume I'm more likely to find a place to learn Aikido than Aiki Jiu-Jitsu. Either way, what major governing bodies should I be looking for certification or whatever for American schools?

Secondly, would there be anything gained from learning Aikido if I were to move on to something more contact based like BJJ? Obviously I'm not going to expect to magically be able to stuff every takedown ever because I'm an AIKIDO MASTER or anything, but it'd be nice to know that there's a little overlap between an art that's descended from a (relatively) practical style.

zalmoxes
Sep 30, 2009

:eurovision:

viewtyjoe posted:

I'm going to be honest and admit I haven't read the whole thread due to time constraints, but I have two questions:

First, I'm interested in learning Aikido/Aiki Jiu-Jitsu, and I'm going to assume I'm more likely to find a place to learn Aikido than Aiki Jiu-Jitsu. Either way, what major governing bodies should I be looking for certification or whatever for American schools?

Secondly, would there be anything gained from learning Aikido if I were to move on to something more contact based like BJJ? Obviously I'm not going to expect to magically be able to stuff every takedown ever because I'm an AIKIDO MASTER or anything, but it'd be nice to know that there's a little overlap between an art that's descended from a (relatively) practical style.

I've been doing aikido for a while, hopefully I can answer this.
The major governing body is USAF: http://www.usaikifed.com/
Look up a dojo near you through their website.

Whether you will enjoy aikido depends on what you're looking for. It's a great martial art if you stick with it, but you're not going to be an rear end kicking machine anytime soon.

The main practical skills you will learn in the beginning are wristlocks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wristlock#Major_methods_of_wrist_manipulation
and ukemi (tumbling and breakfalls) . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OaicleoK4M

Syphilis Fish
Apr 27, 2006

Mechafunkzilla posted:

What I meant was that the armbar is a counter to someone throwing punches from a high posture in guard, and that the attitude that you would literally always be postured up in guard unless you "made a mistake" (completely ignoring the fact that you're not sparring with a mannequin) was dumb. And cut out the sarcastic poo poo with "grappled a whole year now?", it makes you look like a douchebag. I don't think my grappling knowledge is infallible at all, but the idea that someone will never be able to reach your head in guard unless you let them is silly. I guess that's why triangle and guillotine chokes literally never happen in high-level MMA :downs:

Last post; going back to the original argument;

If you are in someone's guard, and he can reach your eyes, you are loving up.


That's it. That's what I've been saying from the beginning, before we got distracted with what-if's and such. If you want to continue thinking you are right still, go ahead. I'm not going to argue what-if's, there are limitless counters and counters to counters.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

Syphilis Fish posted:

If you are in someone's guard, and he can reach your eyes, you are loving up.

This is like saying "if you are boxing and your opponent punches your face, you are loving up." Technically true, but still a really dumb thing to say.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

viewtyjoe posted:

I'm going to be honest and admit I haven't read the whole thread due to time constraints, but I have two questions:

First, I'm interested in learning Aikido/Aiki Jiu-Jitsu, and I'm going to assume I'm more likely to find a place to learn Aikido than Aiki Jiu-Jitsu. Either way, what major governing bodies should I be looking for certification or whatever for American schools?

Secondly, would there be anything gained from learning Aikido if I were to move on to something more contact based like BJJ? Obviously I'm not going to expect to magically be able to stuff every takedown ever because I'm an AIKIDO MASTER or anything, but it'd be nice to know that there's a little overlap between an art that's descended from a (relatively) practical style.

Aiki jiu-jitsu is not a thing, you are thinking of Aiki-jitsu which is, basically, the ancestor style of Aikido.

There are a ton of Aikido schools with their own slight variations and beliefs, I would hit up wikipedia and try to get a grasp on the major versions.

The only advantage an Aikidoka has moving to Bjj is that they at least understand the theory of martial arts. Going with the flow, balance/balance breaking, posture, angles all that stuff. Wrestlers and Judoka also know this, but have practical skills and experience to boot.

Also Aikidoka often try their wristlock shennanigans and tap white belts, but anyone blue or above crushes that bullshit.

Many people I've seen come over from Aikido have been disturbingly out of shape for someone that does a physical activity and usually either injury prone or living with some kind of chronic pain. I don't know if it's the Aikido or what, but I would not recommend Aikido if you want to cross train bjj. Judo/Bjj is a much better combo.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...
Aikido sucks mega-huge balls for transitioning to BJJ because there's no sparring. You'd actually be better off with a non-grappling MA with real sparring like boxing, it would at least get you in shape and get you used to things like footwork, spacing, and staying relaxed while fighting.

Office Sheep
Jan 20, 2007
I've been crosstraining bjj and judo for the few months i've been grappling. It's fun because there are even ground skills emphasised in judo which become useful in the bjj to some degree (like pins and turn overs). Mostly it is fun to mix it up.

Office Sheep fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jul 14, 2011

esquilax
Jan 3, 2003

So I started Judo last week, did some randori yesterday and got thrown every time I tried anything.

1. Today I feel like I've been hit by a truck. Does this go away as your breakfalls get better and/or you get used to it?

2. Are there any tips on promoting the formation of callouses? Parts of my hands are pretty torn up and I want to make sure it only happens the once.

3. Does anyone know if My Judo by Kimura is available anywhere to buy or download? I read the excerpt on judoinfo and loved it.

Probably been posted before, but this is just awesome.

Kimura posted:

20,000 people came to see the bout including President of Brazil. Helio was 180cm and 80 kg. When I entered the stadium, I found a coffin. I asked what it was. I was told, "This is for Kimura. Helio brought this in." It was so funny that I almost burst into laughter. As I approached the ring, raw eggs were thrown at me. The gong rang. Helio grabbed me in both lapels, and attacked me with O-soto-gari and Kouchi-gari. But they did not move me at all. Now it's my turn. I blew him away up in the air by O-uchi-gari, Harai-goshi, Uchimata, Ippon-seoi. At about 10 minute mark, I threw him by O-soto-gari. I intended to cause a concussion. But since the mat was so soft that it did not have much impact on him. While continuing to throw him, I was thinking of a finishing method. I threw him by O-soto-gari again. As soon as Helio fell, I pinned him by Kuzure-kami-shiho-gatame. I held still for 2 or 3 minutes, and then tried to smother him by belly. Helio shook his head trying to breathe. He could not take it any longer, and tried to push up my body extending his left arm. That moment, I grabbed his left wrist with my right hand, and twisted up his arm. I applied Udegarami. I thought he would surrender immediately. But Helio would not tap the mat. I had no choice but keep on twisting the arm. The stadium became quiet. The bone of his arm was coming close to the breaking point. Finally, the sound of bone breaking echoed throughout the stadium. Helio still did not surrender. His left arm was already powerless. Under this rule, I had no choice but twist the arm again. There was plenty of time left. I twisted the left arm again. Another bone was broken. Helio still did not tap. When I tried to twist the arm once more, a white towel was thrown in. I won by TKO. My hand was raised high. Japanese Brazilians rushed into the ring and tossed me up in the air. On the other hand, Helio let his left arm hang and looked very sad withstanding the pain.

TollTheHounds
Mar 23, 2006

He died for your sins...
I dunno if there are any Vancouverites around in here but I'm looking to get back into Kali/pretty much any striking martial art after a year break. The trick is, the only place I know of/where I used to go is in East Van ( Maelstrom ) and I really really do not want to commute for it (I'm in Richmond). The further away it is the less likely I am to go consistently/stick with it. I have found this place http://premierwestmma.com/news/ and I know I shouldn't judge but the website is so terrible that it doesn't instill confidence in me. I suppose I could take that to mean they spend more time training than updating their website, but still...

Failing any other Kali/Pekiti Tirsia/Filipino Martial Arts schools or hell even JKD, I'm thinking about maybe going back to general MMA/Muay Thai at a place closer to me. Anyone had experience with http://www.universalmma.com/ ? No BJJ at the Richmond location though but I'm mostly interested in the striking anyway so it works out.

TollTheHounds fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Jul 14, 2011

zalmoxes
Sep 30, 2009

:eurovision:

Xguard86 posted:


Many people I've seen come over from Aikido have been disturbingly out of shape for someone that does a physical activity and usually either injury prone or living with some kind of chronic pain. I don't know if it's the Aikido or what, but I would not recommend Aikido if you want to cross train bjj. Judo/Bjj is a much better combo.

This is kind of true, but it has more to do with the individual then the art. Because there's no sparring, it attracts the middle aged, office worker types who are just looking to say they do something 3 times a week without really pushing themselves. As someone who is making an effort to improve, having to train with people like that is really annoying and after a while you learn to avoid them. Aikido allows you to train as hard as you're able or be a lazy gently caress who spends 10 years practicing and makes no improvement.


That said, Aikido has helped me a lot with

quote:

footwork, spacing, and staying relaxed while fighting.

I don't know much about BJJ personally, but I think Aikido and Judo complement each other very well since both arts are about positioning, awareness of your surroundings and responding to your opponent.

The idea that aikido doesn't have sparring, while technically true is somewhat bullshit. Randori in aikido is trained with a nage (the person doing the techniques) and the uke(the attacker/agressor) however the role of the uke is not to just take pretty breakfalls. A good uke has to strike with force, speed and intent, and not fall if nage didn't actually unbalance him. Again, there are many people in aikido who don't train properly, they're just going through the motions.

As someone who is young and physically able I feel like there is a crisis within the aikido community. Aikido became popular with the post vietnam generation when it was introduced in the US by Ueshiba's students. They themselves were in their prime and so were their students. Today there are a lot of good aikidoka that while can teach you a lot about the art, are not necessarily up to a rigorous physical workout, and there are very few young people who choose to practice.

In my judo class there are a few old guys, but 80% of the green-black belts are 20-30 year olds in top physical shape. In my aikido group, I'm the only 20 something, there are 2-3 physically fit 30 something year olds and everyone else is already past their prime. I really like aikido but I often feel like I'm not getting the full experience because of these problems as well as a few other things I won't rant about in this post.

edit:


esquilax posted:

So I started Judo last week, did some randori yesterday and got thrown every time I tried anything.

1. Today I feel like I've been hit by a truck. Does this go away as your breakfalls get better and/or you get used to it?

Yes it gets better. My first week of judo was the worst, I had bloody knuckles, a twisted toe and pains all over, but it got a lot better with time.
Personally I didn't have problems with breakfalls, but that was because of years of aikido practice. I can do ukemi on concrete and not feel a thing. The rolling exercise in the beginning of this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMpBpM38TMg is very good. Keep doing it and do a lot of rolls. When you feel safe, try doing a few on a hard surface (like hardwood floor, or your driveway outside), if it still hurts a lot in certain places it means you're still doing it wrong.

zalmoxes fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jul 14, 2011

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

zalmoxes posted:

The idea that aikido doesn't have sparring, while technically true is somewhat bullshit. Randori in aikido is trained with a nage (the person doing the techniques) and the uke(the attacker/agressor) however the role of the uke is not to just take pretty breakfalls. A good uke has to strike with force, speed and intent, and not fall if nage didn't actually unbalance him. Again, there are many people in aikido who don't train properly, they're just going through the motions.

This is super dumb though because unless the uke actually trains in striking or a real grappling art then their attacks are going to be dogshit, and aikido doesn't teach striking or wrestling. Plus having a set attacker and defender and going through a predetermined technique is not sparring, that's called "a drill".

I mean, you can defend against "punches" or "takedowns" all you want but unless the guys doing those techniques aren't just aikido guys then what's the point. Because aikido doesn't teach and practice the proper way to hit someone, shoot, etc.

Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jul 14, 2011

niethan
Nov 22, 2005

Don't be scared, homie!
Also if you already know exactly what the other guys gonna do there's always a way to counter it.

zalmoxes
Sep 30, 2009

:eurovision:

Mechafunkzilla posted:

This is super dumb though because unless the uke actually trains in striking or a real grappling art then their attacks are going to be dogshit, and aikido doesn't teach striking or wrestling. Plus having a set attacker and defender and going through a predetermined technique is not sparring, that's call "a drill".

I mean, you can defend against "punches" or "takedowns" all you want but unless the guys doing those techniques aren't just aikido guys then what's the point. Because aikido doesn't teach and practice the proper way to hit someone, shoot, etc.

I agree with everything you've said, and it's an ongoing debate in aikido circles.
There are many people who practice randori with full contact/more realism, but the vast majority of aikidokas unfortunately don't and many even give bullshit reasons for not practicing this way.

Occasionally we have people with experience in karate/other striking arts demonstrate proper strikes, but again you're right. People who only do aikido(including instructors) have horrible atemi.

Another dumb thing about aikido is that the vast majority of practitioners never train weapons (bokken and jo). Weapons are absolutely essential to one's understanding of aikido, yet it's only practiced for 30 minutes to maybe 1 hour once in a while, as opposed to all the time.

I would disagree somewhat on aikido randori being a drill. If you haven't done it before I'll explain.
1. There is a nage (the defender).
2. There are usually multiple attackers (uke)
3. Each attacker is allowed to perform any attack - punch, grab and kick. The nage doesn't know which opponent will attack or what kind of attack it's going to be.
4. Nage is not limited in how he takes care of the attacker. Any defensive technique as well as atemi is welcome. The goal is to successfully defend yourself from the attacker, regain your position and focus on the next opponent, who is going to attack you at any time.
This usually lasts 1-2 minutes and the attacks are done in quick succession. How intensive or realistic randori is depends on who you're practicing with.


niethan posted:

Also if you already know exactly what the other guys gonna do there's always a way to counter it.
In randori you don't know what the other guy is going to do. That's kind of the point.
Also did I mention there's competitive Aikido. I don't have experience with it, but I know it exists.

quote:

only one attacking and defensive technique is used at a time, etc.
Any attack or defense is allowed in randori. It's not like "hey you attack with yokomen'uchi and I'll do shiho-nage" 20 times.
I don't really mind if you consider randori to be a drill. "Proper" sparring between aikidokas ends up looking like a mix of karate and judo(which is fine in learning self defense), but it's not the only thing we're trying to accomplish.

zalmoxes fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jul 14, 2011

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Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...

zalmoxes posted:

I would disagree somewhat on aikido randori being a drill. If you haven't done it before I'll explain.
1. There is a nage (the defender).
2. There are usually multiple attackers (uke)
3. Each attacker is allowed to perform any attack - punch, grab and kick. The nage doesn't know which opponent will attack or what kind of attack it's going to be.
4. Nage is not limited in how he takes care of the attacker. Any defensive technique as well as atemi is welcome. The goal is to successfully defend yourself from the attacker, regain your position and focus on the next opponent, who is going to attack you at any time.
This usually lasts 1-2 minutes and the attacks are done in quick succession. How intensive or realistic randori is depends on who you're practicing with.

In randori you don't know what the other guy is going to do. That's kind of the point.

What you're describing is still a drill, though. We do the exact same thing in my combat sambo classes. It's not like, say, a breakfall drill, but it's still just a drill - both people have set roles as attacker/defender, only one attacking and defensive technique is used at a time, etc. Sparring is an entirely different thing.

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