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Boiled Water posted:It's like a ford mondeo but less exciting. Ladies and gentlemen, presenting the all new 2012 Chevrolet... Automobile!
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Jul 19, 2011 17:26
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travisray2004 posted:I don't think people really put that much thought into it. What I think it is is the fact that since the 70s a wagon has been associated with hauling groceries and soccer moms, or grandpa driving around the kids for the most part. I'd be willing to bet that in another 5-10 years SUVs will have the same stigma (universally, that is), just like minivans recently. Minivans are a much newer concept than a station wagon or SUVs. They are hated because they are poo poo to drive and ugly as hell. The stigma is because it's spot-on.
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Jul 19, 2011 17:46
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Boiled Water posted:It's like a ford mondeo but less exciting. Yes if a Mondeo had more HP and weighed 400lbs less than a BMW 335i and better fuel economy and was much larger and could seat 6 people with 3 in the front row and costs half the price. But I guess it doesn't have enough spoilers and hood scoops and HIDZZ to impress anyone here. 
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Jul 19, 2011 18:18
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Throatwarbler posted:Yes if a Mondeo had more HP and weighed 400lbs less than a BMW 335i and better fuel economy and was much larger and could seat 6 people with 3 in the front row and costs half the price. But I guess it doesn't have enough spoilers and hood scoops and HIDZZ to impress anyone here. And somehow it will be far slower, and the fuel economy will come from you not wanting to drive the thing at all, let alone hard. There's been a loving $1000 rebate for AARP members for a few years now.
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Jul 19, 2011 18:40
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Throatwarbler posted:But I guess it doesn't have enough spoilers and hood scoops and HIDZZ to impress anyone here. It's the kind of car I would drive if I were going to rob a bank because no one would be able to give a description of it to the police. "Well, officer, it was... Um. It had four wheels I think. It had headlights too."
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Jul 19, 2011 18:53
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They are comfortable cars to drive. I would take one over a Camry without hesitation. A new one would be a bad move though, the depreciation appears to be epic. sanchez fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jul 19, 2011 |
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Jul 19, 2011 18:57
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Subaru wants to split the WRX from the Impreza, make it a 1.6L turbo flat four to conform to WRC spec AND possibly base this new car off the RWD concept... except AWD  http://www.themotorreport.com.au/52124/subaru-wrx-could-split-from-the-impreza-line-report
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Jul 19, 2011 22:11
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quote:“Apart from a few nuts and bolts, every part on the WRX will be unique. Even the engine and body," an unnamed source reportedly told US magazine Motor Trend this week.  That's journalism?
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Jul 19, 2011 22:41
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Taaaaaaarb! posted:Subaru wants to split the WRX from the Impreza, make it a 1.6L turbo flat four to conform to WRC spec AND possibly base this new car off the RWD concept... except AWD Just stop making cars that look like boring crap with a giant spoiler. I don't understand the point of splitting the impreza line though.
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Jul 19, 2011 23:38
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Throatwarbler posted:Yes if a Mondeo had more HP and weighed 400lbs less than a BMW 335i and better fuel economy and was much larger and could seat 6 people with 3 in the front row and costs half the price. But I guess it doesn't have enough spoilers and hood scoops and HIDZZ to impress anyone here. I seriously doubt it can seat three abreast for more than a trip across town. The Jetta and Focus both "seat 5", but not really. I like the Juke for not having a pretentious center seat in the back. More cars should do that.
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Jul 19, 2011 23:43
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69sofine posted:Just stop making cars that look like boring crap with a giant spoiler. I don't understand the point of splitting the impreza line though. Potential to get back into the WRC, cheaper price might mean more uptake.
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Jul 19, 2011 23:45
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69sofine posted:Just stop making cars that look like boring crap with a giant spoiler. I don't understand the point of splitting the impreza line though.  It's using a lot of words to say "The next WRX is going to be the Subayota/FT-86".
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Jul 19, 2011 23:50
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69sofine posted:Just stop making cars that look like boring crap with a giant spoiler. I don't understand the point of splitting the impreza line though. My money is on them making a Mini fighter. They are going for a Yaris sized sporty car with a small displacement boosted engine. Throatwarbler posted:It's using a lot of words to say "The next WRX is going to be the Subayota/FT-86". I can understand why you would think that. The Subayotaru doesn't have a name yet and is rumored to have the turbo/AWD combo. But I doubt it is the new WRX. The Subayotaru will be able to stand on its own; it doesn't need the WRX nameplate at all. They could be trying to create a "premium" brand image. By having a stand-alone WRX naming the Subayota the SVX, they will pretty much set themselves up for a future __X nameplates.
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Jul 20, 2011 00:28
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oRenj9 posted:My money is on them making a Mini fighter. They are going for a Yaris sized sporty car with a small displacement boosted engine. Introducing the new Subaru CRX!
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Jul 20, 2011 00:41
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quote:"Subayota, etc." I always called it the Toyobaru 
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Jul 20, 2011 00:44
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Taaaaaaarb! posted:I always called it the Toyobaru Speaking of which...
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Jul 20, 2011 00:49
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Motronic posted:Minivans are a much newer concept than a station wagon or SUVs. They are hated because they are poo poo to drive and ugly as hell. The stigma is because it's spot-on. They drive a hell of a lot better than most SUVs though and people buy them. I'd take an Odyssey over a CRV or a Touran over a Tiguan for instance
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Jul 20, 2011 01:22
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dissss posted:They drive a hell of a lot better than most SUVs though and people buy them. That is very much personal preference. Minivans drive like appliances. If that's what you like and need more space, trade in your Corolla for one. I'd enjoy a $400 J-body more than a new minivan.
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Jul 20, 2011 01:39
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Motronic posted:That is very much personal preference. Minivans drive like appliances. If that's what you like and need more space, trade in your Corolla for one. I'd enjoy a $400 J-body more than a new minivan. The better mini vans are bugger all different to drive than their sedan counterparts - just a bit more bulk for the same drivetrain. Driving a Touran for instance is very similar to driving a Golf. Also I didn't realise the US market Odyssey was so giant, that isn't one I've driven. The international one is really nice other than being terminally underpowered.
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Jul 20, 2011 01:44
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The Odyssey looks positively small next to the Toyota Sienna.
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Jul 20, 2011 01:49
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dissss posted:Also I didn't realise the US market Odyssey was so giant, that isn't one I've driven. The (US market, I suppose if you say there is a difference) Odyssey and whatever the Toyota counterpart is are basically school bus sized. It's like driving a refrigerator box with built in sofas while while wearing oven mitts and clown shoes. They are soul-less crotchfruit transport with no redeeming qualities other than space, relative cheapness and "hey look, I can open the big door on the side with my keychain remote!" and "look, DVD players in the seat backs to keep the snot noses quiet!". No one who is any sort of driving enthusiast would find a single thing about how they drive to be satisfying.
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Jul 20, 2011 02:01
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dissss posted:The better mini vans are bugger all different to drive than their sedan counterparts - just a bit more bulk for the same drivetrain. Driving a Touran for instance is very similar to driving a Golf. The RoW Odyssey is basically a TSX/RoW Accord wagon, with double wishbone front and rear suspension, it's a tiny vehicle, doesn't even have sliding doors. The American Odyssey is almost a foot taller. The Odyssey does have trailing arm IRS but it's by far the most expensive van on the market. Most American minivans are Dodge/Chryslers that had leaf springs and live/dead axles until 2008 when they upgraded to a torsion bar and coil springs.
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Jul 20, 2011 02:08
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Motronic posted:The (US market, I suppose if you say there is a difference) Odyssey and whatever the Toyota counterpart is are basically school bus sized. It's like driving a refrigerator box with built in sofas while while wearing oven mitts and clown shoes. They are soul-less crotchfruit transport with no redeeming qualities other than space, relative cheapness and "hey look, I can open the big door on the side with my keychain remote!" and "look, DVD players in the seat backs to keep the snot noses quiet!". No one who is any sort of driving enthusiast would find a single thing about how they drive to be satisfying. You could just as easily be describing an Expedition or whatever that Toyota equivalent super sized SUV is called (the one that is bigger than a 200 series Landcruiser but doesn't have any type of off-road ability). It really sounds like a problem with specific minivans rather than the minivan form factor in general.
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Jul 20, 2011 02:08
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Motronic posted:The (US market, I suppose if you say there is a difference) Odyssey and whatever the Toyota counterpart is are basically school bus sized. It's like driving a refrigerator box with built in sofas while while wearing oven mitts and clown shoes. They are soul-less crotchfruit transport with no redeeming qualities other than space, relative cheapness and "hey look, I can open the big door on the side with my keychain remote!" and "look, DVD players in the seat backs to keep the snot noses quiet!". No one who is any sort of driving enthusiast would find a single thing about how they drive to be satisfying. I'd drive an R63 all day with no complaints no matter what "crotchfruit" was sitting in the back.
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Jul 20, 2011 02:22
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dissss posted:You could just as easily be describing an Expedition or whatever that Toyota equivalent super sized SUV is called (the one that is bigger than a 200 series Landcruiser but doesn't have any type of off-road ability). The Sequoia has tons of off road capability, being that it has a LC200 drive train almost entirely... It is inappropriately large, though. The only minivan I want is the Previa for its SC-AWD-mid-engined goodness. I've never driven one and I likely never will. So any goodness may just be turd polishing.
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Jul 20, 2011 02:23
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kimbo305 posted:Potential to get back into the WRC, cheaper price might mean more uptake. It sounds like it would be more expensive from the way they're describing how it's gonna be use proprietary everything. So is the STI going to be a part of this possible new WRX line? If the FT-86 is going to be AWD and turbo would the only reason you'd purchase it over a WRX be that it's a coupe?
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Jul 20, 2011 02:43
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Skyssx posted:The Sequoia has tons of off road capability, being that it has a LC200 drive train almost entirely... It is inappropriately large, though. The Sequoia is a bit taller than the LC and has IRS but the LC does have low range gearing, which I guess is the big thing to have for going off road.
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Jul 20, 2011 02:43
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Throatwarbler posted:The Sequoia is a bit taller than the LC and has IRS but the LC does have low range gearing, which I guess is the big thing to have for going off road. The engine, transfer case, transmission and front axle are swappable.
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Jul 20, 2011 03:03
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Motronic posted:The (US market, I suppose if you say there is a difference) Odyssey and whatever the Toyota counterpart is are basically school bus sized. It's like driving a refrigerator box with built in sofas while while wearing oven mitts and clown shoes. They are soul-less crotchfruit transport with no redeeming qualities other than space, relative cheapness and "hey look, I can open the big door on the side with my keychain remote!" and "look, DVD players in the seat backs to keep the snot noses quiet!". No one who is any sort of driving enthusiast would find a single thing about how they drive to be satisfying. yeah I don't see why they keep marketing the odyssey to driving enthusiasts
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Jul 20, 2011 03:09
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Motronic posted:(Minivans) are soul-less crotchfruit transport with no redeeming qualities other than space, relative cheapness and "hey look, I can open the big door on the side with my keychain remote!" and "look, DVD players in the seat backs to keep the snot noses quiet!". No one who is any sort of driving enthusiast would find a single thing about how they drive to be satisfying. Everything you've said against minivans are, in fact, their strong points. Opening the side door(s) to let the kids in without having to heave the door yourself is a wonderful thing, especially if your hands are full of groceries or what have you. I plan on getting a keyfob for my van, since it was equipped with the option from the factory but I didn't get one from the PO. An entertainment option in the back to "keep the snot noses quiet" is exactly what a pair of frazzled parents need on the way back from the store. You can be an enthusiast while driving a minivan. I am. But three kids don't fit in a Miata or <insert performance car here>. You are obviously not the target demographic. I wrote all that then this guy goes Hot Cops posted:yeah I don't see why they keep marketing the odyssey to driving enthusiasts 
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Jul 20, 2011 03:12
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Skyssx posted:The engine, transfer case, transmission and front axle are swappable. I'm not seeing how that make the Sequoia off-road capable?
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Jul 20, 2011 03:34
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Left Ventricle posted:You can be an enthusiast while driving a minivan. I am. But three kids don't fit in a Miata or <insert performance car here>. You are obviously not the target demographic. No, I'm not. They are horrible, and if you are willing to suspend your driving enthusiasm for that, great. That's my point. I'm not willing to do that. My snotnoses sit in the back of a Rover or a Porsche because I won't drive a minivan. Amazingly enough, everything works out just absolutely fine. I don't actually need a schoolbus/living room combo with a steering wheel. I'd bet most people who drive them don't need that either. I's bet that most of us who are old enough to have children on here grew up being ferried around in a full sized sedan or wagon as the largest. That all worked out too.
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Jul 20, 2011 03:35
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Motronic posted:I's bet that most of us who are old enough to have children on here grew up being ferried around in a full sized sedan or wagon as the largest. That all worked out too. Which have about as much going for them in the way of driving enthusiasm as a modern US style minivan - which is to say considerably less than a more sanely sized one like you might find elsewhere in the world.
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Jul 20, 2011 03:42
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dissss posted:Which have about as much going for them in the way of driving enthusiasm as a modern US style minivan - which is to say considerably less than a more sanely sized one like you might find elsewhere in the world. That statement betrays your lack of knowledge on full sized sedans and wagons. I don't even know where to start with this. I'm partial to Audis. I've driven a Passat wagon that was tuned up really nicely. I'm OK with a lot of Mercs in the full sized sedan category as well. Are you really trying to say that cars like these drive like an oversized minivan?
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Jul 20, 2011 03:56
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Motronic posted:That statement betrays your lack of knowledge on full sized sedans and wagons. I don't even know where to start with this. I'm partial to Audis. I've driven a Passat wagon that was tuned up really nicely. I'm OK with a lot of Mercs in the full sized sedan category as well. Are you really trying to say that cars like these drive like an oversized minivan? Most people wouldn't have grown up around 7-series and big Audis, there would have been far more big domestic sedans and wagons. Point is every subset of car has its good models and its bad models.
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Jul 20, 2011 04:11
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The older generations of US market Odyssey weren't that bad, driving wise. Not amazing, but surprisingly decent compared to their competitors. If I remember, they were based on the Accord platform and retained the front and rear wishbone suspension, etc. Also they had excellent reliability. Of course, they were smaller then, too, but this is just a reminder of back when Honda looked like it could do anything and do it right . The current generation, like seemingly all other recent Hondas, is just coasting on the goodwill of its predecessors. However, I will say that the hit-and-miss modern Honda styling is pretty acceptable on that one compared to its competitors. The laughable thing was Toyota, of all people, trying to sell people on a "sport package" for the Sienna, with a blacked out grille and fake carbon fiber trim and everything.   Minivan with a body kit: SPEED and CLASS What a joke that was. They also offer the Venza, which is basically the Camry Wagon. Unfortunately, even given the generous price range (28k) there's not a whole out there. Anyone have experience with the Mazda 5? That has 3 rows. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Jul 20, 2011 |
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Jul 20, 2011 04:43
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Motronic posted:No, I'm not. They are horrible, and if you are willing to suspend your driving enthusiasm for that, great. That's my point. Good luck transporting camping equipment + for a week + 2 canoes, a family of 5, and a dog in your Porsche, without the added cost of towing a trailer. On a 5 hour drive to the campsite. When you've got 3 teenagers, meaning whoever has to sit in the damned middle seat very unlucky. Does driving a minivan mean you've given up on your driving enthusiasm? Hell no. If anything, it means you've got the right vehicle for the job - hauls lots of equipment and people for long periods of time in relative comfort. This is why you get a minivan, and something like an older 3-series for the 2nd car for the household.
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Jul 20, 2011 04:51
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Cream_Filling posted:The older generations of US market Odyssey weren't that bad, driving wise. Not amazing, but surprisingly decent compared to their competitors. If I remember, they were based on the Accord platform and retained the front and rear wishbone suspension, etc. Also they had excellent reliability. Of course, they were smaller then, too, but this is just a reminder of back when Honda looked like it could do anything and do it right The ones from the early 2000s all had the exploding 5 sp automatic transmission, same as the Accords, but much worse because it's a heavier vehicle and the assholes who buy minivans are always towing poo poo with them like they were trucks. Also I think the doors fell off a lot (problem with the sliding mechanism).
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Jul 20, 2011 04:52
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Motronic posted:That statement betrays your lack of knowledge on full sized sedans and wagons. I don't even know where to start with this. I'm partial to Audis. I've driven a Passat wagon that was tuned up really nicely. I'm OK with a lot of Mercs in the full sized sedan category as well. Motronic posted:(Minivans) are horrible "Because they don't get very good fuel economy"? Vans these days get phenomenal economy when compared to both their predecessors and their contemporaries in the CUV market. "Because... because... they're big and stupid and ucky and I hate them!!" I hate crossovers just as vehemently. I can see their niche though—for people who are too cool to admit they need a van. Motronic posted:My snotnoses sit in the back of a Rover or a Porsche because I won't drive a minivan. Amazingly enough, everything works out just absolutely fine. Motronic posted:I don't actually need a schoolbus/living room combo with a steering wheel. I'd bet most people who drive them don't need that either. Motronic posted:I's bet that most of us who are old enough to have children on here grew up being ferried around in a full sized sedan or wagon as the largest. That all worked out too. Cream_Filling posted:Anyone have experience with the Mazda 5? That has 3 rows. And once again, in the time it took me to write this, someone else said what I'm trying to say in less words. TrueChaos posted:Good luck transporting camping equipment + for a week + 2 canoes, a family of 5, and a dog in your Porsche, without the added cost of towing a trailer. On a 5 hour drive to the campsite. When you've got 3 teenagers, meaning whoever has to sit in the damned middle seat very unlucky.
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Jul 20, 2011 05:13
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Back to posting about new cars you like, has anyone mentioned the new morgan three wheeler? £25k plus options (chrome & vinyl bomber nose-art) for a harley ss engined 3 wheeled 2 seater that practically demands leather flying cap & goggles : http://www.morgan3wheeler.co.uk/
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Jul 20, 2011 07:39
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