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Kalman posted:If he's Northwestern, I'd almost tell him not to bother unless he's top 5% or has a personal relationship with a judge - that seemed to be the necessary qualifications at Georgetown, which is comparable enough to NW. Not trying to create any form of hope on in this thread, but this certainly wasn't true at Duke. I mean, for SDNY or DC Circuit, yeah, but for the other districts and circuits it seemed like top 1/3 would get people interviews.
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Jul 22, 2011 03:50
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northwestern law isnt "at" the loop bro. its like a mile north of the loop. depaul and john marshall are in the loop
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Jul 22, 2011 03:52
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Kalman posted:Yeah, but a lot of Chicago students don't live in the neighborhood (because it's kind of lovely, tbh). If he's Northwestern, I'd almost tell him not to bother unless he's top 5% or has a personal relationship with a judge - that seemed to be the necessary qualifications at Georgetown, which is comparable enough to NW. Wow mean.  I'm going to believe HR's advice over yours both because it serves me and because Northwestern is more a Duke-level school than a Georgetown-level school. I hope you're right about the furniture though, thank you for the input.Edit: Also SAM I didn't say in! It's sort of at the Loop! Streeterville is right at the Loop's border. MoFauxHawk fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Jul 22, 2011 |
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Jul 22, 2011 03:53
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MoFauxHawk posted:Wow mean. This was last year. It might have gotten better. (Not counting on it.) I wasn't trying to be mean - I was in the same boat. You know how people say "don't go to law school"? Well, once you're in law school, "don't count on a clerkship if you're not top 5%/HYSC/friends with the judge." Also, I was talking about offers, not interviews, when I said 5%/know the judge. Plenty of top 1/3 got interviews. Maybe you are that special snowflake that HR talks about (they fed me the same line last year; did not get an offer).
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Jul 22, 2011 03:56
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I just meant it was mean that you were saying Northwestern was comparable enough to Georgetown and so far below Chicago.
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Jul 22, 2011 03:59
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Ok, I can't believe I'm considering this now. I currently work as a legal assistant in the federal government, specifically with the Office of Personnel Management (so the federal gov.'s HR department, specifically dealing with retirements, worker's comp, and most specifically, pouring over medical records and documentation to determine disability status and accommodations for federal employees). I'm actually gaining quite a bit of experience in labor relations, employment laws, worker's comp, Social Security, etc. I took this job with one thing in mind: as a test step to see if I still wanted to go to law school. It's looking like I want to go now. The sucky thing is that I don't actually work with any lawyers. Yeah, it's hosed up. All our supervisors are basically senior associates who used to do this job. The lawyers are on the other side of the floor and we never see them, so it's not like I can get recommendations from one. So in short, I have experience, I have knowledge, I have interest, I've wanted to do this...but I might have to apply with zero letters from actual attorneys. Would it be a waste of time to try? I have confidence in my ability to do well on the LSAT. I have confidence in my ability to handle the job and school and so on. As a backup plan, I have considered getting a Paralegal Certificate from Georgetown, but everyone tells me I'll get treated like poo poo for the rest of my life if I do that.
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Jul 22, 2011 04:06
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De Nomolos posted:Ok, I can't believe I'm considering this now. 1: Do you like what you're currently doing? 2: Do you know what the actual attorneys do every day? 3: Do you know how unlikely it is you'll get a job doing that after you graduate law school? 4: Do you know that so many people are confident they can handle it that last year alone law schools graduated more aspiring lawyers than there are hiring positions for the next several years? If you really are thinking about this, go and study for the LSAT. Go back to the OP and read everything posted about how to do this. Then you'll at least know whether you should even consider law school.
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Jul 22, 2011 04:12
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MoFauxHawk posted:I just meant it was mean that you were saying Northwestern was comparable enough to Georgetown and so far below Chicago. For clerkships? Chicago is a feeder school for clerkships in general, and is generally ranked 4th/5th overall. Northwestern is at the bottom of the top tier along with Georgetown. Had it been a UT student I'd have said the same thing (though UT is in a position where they're at least advantaged for Texas judges - NW isn't because they're competing with Chicago students for local bias, and Georgetown isn't because DC judges don't really exhibit local bias.) Looking into it a bit more, I was actually wrong - Chicago doesn't do as well as I thought! Nor does Georgetown. Chicago does slightly better than NW, and Georgetown does slightly better overall but places fewer into federal clerkships as opposed to state and Article I clerkships. However, Chicago massively outperforms when it comes to SCOTUS clerkships.
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Jul 22, 2011 04:13
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MoFauxHawk posted:Wow mean. While it's true that "Streeterville is right at the Loop's border," that border is the river, and Northwestern is on the other end of Streeterville from it. And I really hope whoever was dropping off clerkship applications at the Loop post office lives or works near it, because if their law school is near it they're just wasting their time. quote:Looking into it a bit more, I was actually wrong - Chicago doesn't do as well as I thought! Nor does Georgetown. Chicago does slightly better than NW, and Georgetown does slightly better overall but places fewer into federal clerkships as opposed to state and Article I clerkships. However, Chicago massively outperforms when it comes to SCOTUS clerkships. I strongly suspect that if one went and actually analyzed all of Chicago's SCOTUS clerkships you could determine that it's entirely based on Chicago disproportionately placing people with Posner and Easterbrook (probably mostly Posner). MaximumBob fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Jul 22, 2011 |
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Jul 22, 2011 04:25
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MaximumBob posted:While it's true that "Streeterville is right at the Loop's border," that border is the river, and Northwestern is on the other end of Streeterville from it. All right, all right. It's still more likely that somebody going to the Loop post office goes to Northwestern than to Chicago, right? I don't know anything about Chicago, God.
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Jul 22, 2011 04:27
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De Nomolos posted:Ok, I can't believe I'm considering this now.  edit: I can tell by your concern about "not having letters" that you know very little about law school. You should definitely read the OP or the NYTimes or the WSJ or Time or USAToday or even the ABA or basically any other source of information you can find about law school because, barring the admissions web pages of the schools themselves, everything you'll find is basically a strongly-worded condemnation of the life choice you're currently considering. Read. atlas of bugs fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Jul 22, 2011 |
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Jul 22, 2011 04:37
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1. I've read the OP at least 5 times prior to posting here. 2. I feared I'd just get a bunch of "DON'T GO" answers. I'd honestly not consider this for another 2 years. I know a lot of you just want to help, and I know school sucks when you're in the middle of it, but hey, some people have to go through with it eventually, right? And the fact that I don't know everything now is why I'm reading/posting here.
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Jul 22, 2011 04:47
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De Nomolos posted:but hey, some people have to go through with it eventually, right? I mean, yeah, the world needs lawyers; it's just fortunate that the ABA is on pace to produce over 500,000 new ones in the next 10 years.
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Jul 22, 2011 04:49
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De Nomolos posted:1. I've read the OP at least 5 times prior to posting here. Get a signed, written contract that they will hire you as an attorney. If they say yes, ok. If not,gently caress NO.
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Jul 22, 2011 04:50
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De Nomolos posted:Ok, I can't believe I'm considering this now.
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Jul 22, 2011 05:02
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De Nomolos, stay exactly where you are doing exactly what you're doing, and don't loving move. Seriously. More than half of the people posting in this thread would happily cut your throat for the job you have now. If you go to law school, your old agency is not going to hire you as an attorney, and you won't be able to get your old job back. You are literally the farmer from the fable about the goose and the golden eggs. You are holding the axe raised above your head, the goose's head is on the tree stump and its looking at you like "man what are you doing, I lay golden eggs for you bro. I mean really." And you are asking this thread, should you do it? Should you kill the goose? I mean everyone has to do it eventually right? No. No you should not.
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Jul 22, 2011 05:05
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De Nomolos posted:...and I know school sucks when you're in the middle of it... What? No it doesn't. Law school is fun. You have clearly missed the point here. We don't discourage people from going to law school because LAW SCHOOL IS SO HARD (it's not), we discourage people from going because you will graduate unemployed and 6 figures in debt. We are all GRADUATES of law schools (ranked much higher than you're likely to get into) telling you not to go because when you get out, you will probably be unemployed and 6 figures in debt.
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Jul 22, 2011 05:13
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Law school's the best! I just planned all the trips I'm going to go on when I'm in my 3rd year!
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Jul 22, 2011 05:39
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Penguins Like Pies posted:Law school's the best! I just planned all the trips I'm going to go on when I'm in my 3rd year! Yesterday I billed 14.1 hours. Today I billed 18.1 hours. I am still nowhere near getting on top of all the work I have to do.
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Jul 22, 2011 05:42
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Penguins Like Pies posted:Law school's the best! I just planned all the trips I'm going to go on when I'm in my 3rd year! I love how people get the impression that law school is in any way rigorous. 98% of your time there is irrelevant, 2% is studying for exams (which get you grades but are also sort of irrelevant since they don't get you jobs)(unless you're at a school where GPA still pulls). The third year is meaningless. I'd go back in a heartbeat if it wasn't actively harmful to my career prospects.
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Jul 22, 2011 05:44
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atlas of bugs posted:I love how people get the impression that law school is in any way rigorous. 98% of your time there is irrelevant, 2% is studying for exams (which get you grades but are also sort of irrelevant since they don't get you jobs)(unless you're at a school where GPA still pulls). The third year is meaningless. Law school is a white-collar vo-tech, and almost as rigorous - except in law school the classes don't prepare you for your future job. It's just the way you buy yourself into the guild.
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Jul 22, 2011 05:51
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atlas of bugs posted:The third year is meaningless. I said something about skipping class to go to a bar call in November and one of my bosses said "You're in your third year and you already have a job*. Why are you even going to class?" De Nomolos, even real lawyers don't take law school seriously. *Note that I am in Canada and in a province that still has enough articling positions for graduating students. Do not take this to mean you will find a job or be happy.
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Jul 22, 2011 05:57
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and apparently that guild is warhammer
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Jul 22, 2011 05:57
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Penguins Like Pies posted:Law school's the best! I just planned all the trips I'm going to go on when I'm in my 3rd year! My 3L year I spent more time traveling than I did in Durham. It was awesome. My second semester I didn't even have class, I just had an externship in DC. The externship ended in March, so I just spent a month and a half chilling out and traveling. I'm pretty sure the Columbia lawgoons saw me more than the Duke lawgoons.
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Jul 22, 2011 06:20
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srsly posted:Enjoy it. Oh wait I forgot I get to "bill" my lunch with summer associates yesterday. 15.8 18.1 Don't go, work 34 hours in 2 days, die alone.
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Jul 22, 2011 07:09
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De Nomolos posted:As a backup plan, I have considered getting a Paralegal Certificate from Georgetown, but everyone tells me I'll get treated like poo poo for the rest of my life if I do that. You don't need a paralegal certificate to be a paralegal in most states. You either need a BA OR a paralegal certificate - I'm assuming you already have a BA so you can just start applying to jobs now if that's what you want to do. I'm not sure why you think you would be treated like poo poo for the rest of your life, but you get treated pretty badly as an associate and as a non-equity partner at law firms.
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Jul 22, 2011 07:50
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De Nomolos posted:1. I've read the OP at least 5 times prior to posting here. I went to law school and took a federal job that is probably around your paygrade. You might not realize it but you are an idiot if you leave your federal job for the "opportunity" of law school. Pay your union dues, apply to internal postings at other agencies if you are bored, and put money into TSP. All those benefits I just mentioned (including health insurance) are not going to be available to you if you don't land a nice legal job. If you really want to go then use your leave time to study for the LSAT and come back here with your score. Give up on your dreams if you score less than 165.
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Jul 22, 2011 11:26
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srsly posted:Oh wait I forgot I get to "bill" my lunch with summer associates yesterday. I'm fairly sure the "billing 0 hours per day" group would trade you. (Also, how the hell are you billing lunch with summers? Unless it was lunch with summers who are working on a matter with you?) Kalman fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Jul 22, 2011 |
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Jul 22, 2011 11:41
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He "billed" it as nonbillable. Also nobody cares how much you billed except you and the partners profiting off your labor, and the partners actually only care about collected billables. Get back to work.
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Jul 22, 2011 12:03
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Any New Zealand lawyergoons out there? This thread is scaring me well off law school, but I'm not sure how much of it is applicable to the New Zealand market?
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Jul 22, 2011 13:13
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Green Crayons posted:If you don't work with lawyers, how do you know that you want be one? I found this intereting as well. If you don't work with the lawyers, it seems to me that you'd have no idea about what the lawyers actually do. Anyway, someone said the problem is that while law school is great, it's graduating with heavy debt and no job prospects that is the worry. While that's a concern, for the lawyers I know, the problem most people have is that they hate being a lawyer. For every one that is happy with the decision to go to law school, five would do things differently if they could go back in time.
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Jul 22, 2011 13:34
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srsly posted:Oh wait I forgot I get to "bill" my lunch with summer associates yesterday. hey you know how it's not cool to talk in a big group of people about how much money you make? well...
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Jul 22, 2011 13:36
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Feces Starship posted:hey you know how it's not cool to talk in a big group of people about how much money you make? Just as important for people going to law school to realize that if they do get "lucky" and land a big law job (and if they go to a good school, even if they have the best intentions to do something else with their life, they WILL get pushed towards Big Law to such a heavy degree by their school and peers that most will cave), that will likely be their life. The 4th year associate above me hit his 2100 hour billable mark at the beginning of July. Our fiscal year ends in October.
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Jul 22, 2011 14:16
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atlas of bugs posted:I love how people get the impression that law school is in any way rigorous. 98% of your time there is irrelevant, 2% is studying for exams (which get you grades but are also sort of irrelevant since they don't get you jobs)(unless you're at a school where GPA still pulls).
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Jul 22, 2011 14:49
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Linguica posted:An IRL LSAT writing sample sent to a T14 law school
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Jul 22, 2011 14:58
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HooKars posted:The 4th year associate above me hit his 2100 hour billable mark at the beginning of July. Our fiscal year ends in October. On pace for 4000 hours! People are crazy.
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Jul 22, 2011 16:52
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MoFauxHawk posted:All right, all right. It's still more likely that somebody going to the Loop post office goes to Northwestern than to Chicago, right? I don't know anything about Chicago, God. Know your Chicago law school pecking order! We're surrounded by inferior institutions, literally blocks away...tainting us with their TTT aura. Remain firm and proud, young Wildcat - the rabble crowd the gates, but at least for the moment (we're #12 now, ughhhh) we are safely ensconced within. And yes, UChicago's the "better" Chicago school, but god forbid you ever have to talk to any of them. At least we're not douchebags; I know this because our orientation last year was literally "Don't be a shitheel(unlike a certain other law school)", over and over again, and it seems to have stuck. No offense to Chicagoites out there!
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Jul 22, 2011 17:26
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How do you guys feel about putting references on resumes?
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Jul 22, 2011 17:50
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CaptainScraps posted:How do you guys feel about putting references on resumes? If they wanted your references, they would have asked for them.
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Jul 22, 2011 18:01
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CaptainScraps posted:How do you guys feel about putting references on resumes? No. Why would you do that?
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Jul 22, 2011 18:07
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