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Limp Wristed Limey posted:Haha sorry to break it to you but sometimes words have different meanings in different countries. You will have to take off your Captain Anti-Racist costume now Heh. Sorry you found that offensive thing I said about a disabled character offensive. Try being European, mayhaps??
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Jul 23, 2011 20:39
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PeterWeller posted:"Mong" does come from Mongoloid. Also, picking on that poor girl because she suffers from leprosy is a pretty clear case of ableism. Well she hasnt done anything so far except play with Patchface and look mournful all the time. I say she should be sword fodder 
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Jul 23, 2011 20:43
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Limp Wristed Limey posted:Well she hasnt done anything so far except play with Patchface and look mournful all the time. I say she should be sword fodder Did anyone else think it was really weird that Jon knew about Patchface when the queen arrived at Castle Black? I think he says that Cotter Pyke mentioned him in a letter. What the gently caress? Why would he mention Patchface in a letter? "Dude, Lord Snow, there's this little gently caress up who hangs out with the ugly leper..."
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Jul 23, 2011 20:51
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Doibhilin posted:Did anyone else think it was really weird that Jon knew about Patchface when the queen arrived at Castle Black? I think he says that Cotter Pyke mentioned him in a letter. What the gently caress? Why would he mention Patchface in a letter? "Dude, Lord Snow, there's this little gently caress up who hangs out with the ugly leper..." Maybe the Nights Watch just like to gossip like a bunch of teenage girls?
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Jul 23, 2011 21:01
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PeterWeller posted:Also, picking on that poor girl because she suffers from leprosy is a pretty clear case of ableism. Healthism.
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Jul 23, 2011 21:19
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Roark posted:Robert (and Stannis and Renly) have a Targ grandmother (great-grandmother?), so they do have a tenuous claim. But more importantly, it's right of conquest. Aerys was deposed and his House was exiled, and House Baratheon became the legal royal house. If anything, Stannis is embracing the legal conception of succession rights - his dynasty is, legally (in his view), the royal house, and since Joffrey and his siblings are not Robert's children, he is the king by being Robert's eldest sibling. Baratheons are also descended from a bastard brother of the First Aegon, giving them more of a claim than anybody else on the Vale/Riverrun/North faction's side. Stannis' claim is absolutely in line with the right of succession to Robert's dynasty, as the Targaryens lost and they were not even a Westerosi house to begin with.
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Jul 23, 2011 22:09
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Doibhilin posted:Did anyone else think it was really weird that Jon knew about Patchface when the queen arrived at Castle Black? I think he says that Cotter Pyke mentioned him in a letter. What the gently caress? Why would he mention Patchface in a letter? "Dude, Lord Snow, there's this little gently caress up who hangs out with the ugly leper..." It didn't seem strange to me that he would mention some weird dude who's always around and the queen cherishes. Also, Cotter was pretty annoyed with the queen's behavior, and he could have mentioned Patchface while he was bitching about her and her crew.
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Jul 23, 2011 23:27
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Limp Wristed Limey posted:Maybe the Nights Watch just like to gossip like a bunch of teenage girls? I think this is your answer, those dudes are so bored all they do is talk poo poo about each other.
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Jul 24, 2011 00:10
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the overuse of wroth, if anyone with an electronic copy can do a word count on wroth through all the books that would be awesome.
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Jul 24, 2011 00:21
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Dear Jon, Today we didn't see any wildlings. We ate some onions and turnips again. Hey, also, the Queen's idiot jester says really strange, vague things that sound kinda like prophecies. Just thought I'd mention it. Your pal, Cotter [dictated but not read]
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Jul 24, 2011 00:21
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NihilCredo posted:But who is Stannis's real queen? What I was thinking is that if Stannis has really, truly bought into the R'hllor/Azor Ahai deal, when he finds out that it isn't him we'll be left with a fervent follower of a god with a penchant for kings' blood, who also happens to be a king.
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Jul 24, 2011 00:26
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If you remember wights attacked Bran and Co just outside of the Children of the Forest's cave, implying, at least to me, that the Others are against them as well. Fire, ice, and nature maybe?
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Jul 24, 2011 00:29
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Pron on VHS posted:I'm surprised no one has mentioned the overuse of wroth, if anyone with an electronic copy can do a word count on wroth through all the books that would be awesome. AGOT: 3 ACOK: 1 ASOS: 8 AFFC: 10 ADWD: 29 I don't remember noticing the overused words in the pre-AFFC books at all, but maybe that's because they gave me more to think about than when I would next have the joy to read of peoples' bloody diarrhea.
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Jul 24, 2011 00:34
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Can someone post the letter Jon receives from Winterfell?
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Jul 24, 2011 00:58
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lapse posted:When he first meets Dany, he claims that he has "a drop of dragon blood in me". You're supposed to assume at that point that he just has a big ego and is making poo poo up. I took it as a hint/fakeout for the Quentyn plot, as the Martells also have a drop of Targ blood (we hear about the first Daenerys who married into House Martell). After Ben mentioned it I was wondering if that'd be enough for Quentyn not to get crispifyed, but we know how that turned out.
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Jul 24, 2011 00:59
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He did get one dragon to listen to him. Too bad their was two dragons.
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Jul 24, 2011 01:01
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euphronius posted:Can someone post the letter Jon receives from Winterfell? Your false king’s friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me. I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell. I want my bride back. I want the false king’s queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want his wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard’s heart and eat it.
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Jul 24, 2011 01:16
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Linguica posted:Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore. just creeps me out so much, like Ramsay wants his pet back. Those loving Boltons.
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Jul 24, 2011 01:22
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That is awesome thanks. So something happened because last we heard Theon and Jeyne showed up at Stannis's camp. So they got away or something. Jon doesn't have them regardless. The letter makes no mention of Asha though I doubt the Boltons would care. I guess Ramsay wrote that. I have a hard time believing anything we (the reader) does not see though.
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Jul 24, 2011 01:22
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Aurubin posted:If you remember wights attacked Bran and Co just outside of the Children of the Forest's cave, implying, at least to me, that the Others are against them as well. Fire, ice, and nature maybe? Yeah, it's definitely wrong to think that Bran and the Others are on the same side. The ultimate source of their power may be the same (though personally, I don't think it is), but the Children of the Forest and their allies are clearly against the Others, as evidenced by them being the ones to teach the First Men and the Watch about using obsidian against them.
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Jul 24, 2011 01:23
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So this is a dumb question, but at the beginning of Feast, Jaqen H'ghar kills Pate. He replaces him at the Citadel, presumably to get close to Marwyn, or else just to get the master key to the Citadel. It's unclear who the target is. Regardless, when Arya discusses killing the guy in Braavos by killing one of his guards first, the kindly man basically tells her they're not butchers and if she kills anyone other than her target she's failed. Is it possible Jaqen is freelancing or something? I guess it's unlikely given that he basically sent Arya to Braavos, but what we know of what he's doing doesn't fit with how we've seen the Faceless Men operate otherwise. MaximumBob fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Jul 24, 2011 |
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Jul 24, 2011 02:21
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I get the sense there's a lot we don't know about the Faceless Men. So, they'r priests of murder, but they don't judge or apparently take any real interest in whats going on around them, except to catalogue info for use when people ask them to kill. I mean, whats the point? What do they believe their accomplishing, and why? "We kill people because we're the guys who kill people, and other than that we dont care about anything" isnt how any person or group actually operates. Jaquen's actions are perhaps the only clue we have as to their true motivations. Its not much, but the interest in Marwyn (and by extension, magic and perhaps the magic/science divide in general) is at least some indication that they do, in fact, have some actual goals.
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Jul 24, 2011 02:28
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I think Jaquen might be there just to learn as much as he can instead of being there to take out a high profile target. The Faceless Men started out in the mines of Old Valyria,maybe they want to know how the Masters took out the dragons the first time around.
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Jul 24, 2011 02:46
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literallyincredible posted:I get the sense there's a lot we don't know about the Faceless Men. So, they'r priests of murder, but they don't judge or apparently take any real interest in whats going on around them, except to catalogue info for use when people ask them to kill. Don't Littlefinger and Varys discuss how much they cost when they think about sending them after Dany? If so, then they're in it for the money too.
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Jul 24, 2011 03:10
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I think faceless men charge a lot because you're guaranteed a successful kill. The only example of price I can remember is the waif tells Arya that her father's price for the death of her stepmother was 2/3rds of his money or something along those lines.
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Jul 24, 2011 04:26
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The price seems relative to the person. Whether you're a local fisherman or a king you can probably afford them if it's really really important to you... but the cost will be dear.
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Jul 24, 2011 04:29
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menino posted:Baratheons are also descended from a bastard brother of the First Aegon, giving them more of a claim than anybody else on the Vale/Riverrun/North faction's side. It's more than that with the Baratheons, Robert's grandmother was a Targaryen. Robert and Dany are second cousins.
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Jul 24, 2011 04:55
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quote:Don't Littlefinger and Varys discuss how much they cost when they think about sending them after Dany? If so, then they're in it for the money too. Christ Pseudoscientist posted:I think faceless men charge a lot because you're guaranteed a successful kill. The only example of price I can remember is the waif tells Arya that her father's price for the death of her stepmother was 2/3rds of his money or something along those lines. The point is that the cost is such that you're unlikely to get anything more than that person dying, which makes a twisted kind of sense for a group who consider the assassinations a 'sacrament' to their god. So examples are they killed a woman would would get half her husband's fortune; the husband hired the faceless men to kill her, but they asked for her half as payment. Littlefinger and Varys discussed hiring a faceless man to assassinate Dany - for the same price they could likely hire an army to do it instead.
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Jul 24, 2011 04:59
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hampig posted:The point is that the cost is such that you're unlikely to get anything more than that person dying, which makes a twisted kind of sense for a group who consider the assassinations a 'sacrament' to their god. I never picked up on this, but it's a cool detail. Speaking of assassins, what was the deal with Varys' harem of kids with daggers? Little birds, literally, or something more?
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Jul 24, 2011 05:44
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literallyincredible posted:I get the sense there's a lot we don't know about the Faceless Men. So, they'r priests of murder, but they don't judge or apparently take any real interest in whats going on around them, except to catalogue info for use when people ask them to kill. The other thing to remember is that the faceless men were right there in the mines where the Doom of Valyria happened. Maybe they're partly responsible somehow.
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Jul 24, 2011 06:14
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quote:Don't Littlefinger and Varys discuss how much they cost when they think about sending them after Dany? If so, then they're in it for the money too. Sure, but to what end? They don't seem interested in any of the things people usually want money for--they lead lives free of luxury (or really even basic human connection) and seek no power over other men despite obviously having the means to take it. I mean, I'm sure their magic serial killer labyrinth of faces costs some money to maintain and all, but not that much, and even that is not a motivation--"they charge a lot to kill people so they can afford the resources to be so good at killing that they can charge a lot" still makes no sense as the operating motivation of an organization that entrenched and powerful. Everyone want something--what do the Faceless Men want?
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Jul 24, 2011 06:26
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literallyincredible posted:Everyone want something--what do the Faceless Men want? There's no reason not to think of them as what they seem to be on the surface - a quasi-religious order that worships Death. What they want is to serve Death, and they seem to be doing a pretty good job. Jaqen might be evidence of another motive, but you could equally read his actions as simply manoeuvring to carry out a contract. It also isn't a stretch to think that a group that worships Death and thinks of death as sacred might be violently opposed to things like undead wights and raising people from the dead. hampig fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Jul 24, 2011 |
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Jul 24, 2011 06:38
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People are going to be pissed when Arya dies in the last book.  That or she's going to turn into the next Syrio.Her couple of chapters were pretty slick though - gotta give it to GRRM for the fan service.
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Jul 24, 2011 07:15
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If Jaqen is so good, why was he captured in the first place. Seriously though, did they ever explain that or go into any detail? How did King's Landing catch a Faceless Man, one who by all accounts is extremely good at his job.
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Jul 24, 2011 07:26
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Or maybe, just maybe, the Faceless Men are stupid fantasy poo poo that fall into the author's trap of being whatever the narrative requires of them. Honestly their entire shtick makes little to no sense, but unlike many of the things that make little to no sense in the books I get the feeling that GRRM desperately wants their worship of death to seem deep and meaningful rather than schizophrenic and honestly kind of stupid like they come off. It feels like an attempt at an assassin-death cult that started sort of stupid and just keeps digging itself into a pit of stupid. Arya had an interesting story but unfortunately the entire Faceless Men plot is absolutely ridiculous in a world that seems otherwise believable, even considering the magic and dragons. The Faceless Men are simply too ridiculously perfect in a world that is otherwise relatively realistically imperfect. HeroOfTheRevolution fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Jul 24, 2011 |
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Jul 24, 2011 07:29
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lapse posted:The other thing to remember is that the faceless men were right there in the mines where the Doom of Valyria happened. Maybe they're partly responsible somehow. By detonating an nuclear bomb a hundred times the size of our strongest ones? By magically summoning vulcanos? Seems to me the Doom is something more natural and less men-called (same with what befell Hardhome?)
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Jul 24, 2011 07:33
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:Arya had an interesting story but unfortunately the entire Faceless Men plot is absolutely ridiculous in a world that seems otherwise believable, even considering the magic and dragons. The Faceless Men are simply too ridiculously perfect in a world that is otherwise relatively realistically imperfect.
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Jul 24, 2011 07:54
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Hey guys, first time poster: George R R Martin Your fifth book is done, bastard. It and all its 959 pages were smashed in fourteen days of reading. Your series' quality is dead. Their plot plausibility and cohesion scattered like the ruins of Winterfell. Read again and see them, bastard. Your Dornish Prince did a hundred pages of nothing. You promised the world fire and blood, about the intrigues in the Vale and the Reach but instead you kept writing about the House of Black and White which doesn't make an iota of loving sense. I will have my good series back. I want the next book. I want tighter and more compelling plot (ACoK-equivalent quality will be fine) and it's release date within the next three years. I want Yunkai to burn, and every Astapori freedmen's death to be repaid with ten Yunkai slavers. I want Hizadhr and every son of the harpy to be dragged up in chains screaming as feast for the dragons. I want Dreadfort and The Twins wiped off the face of Westeros. I want every Frey, young and old, to be put to the sword and I want Roose Bolton and his bastard to be flayed and given to Ramsay's girls. I want justice. I want vengeance. I want Fire and Blood. Keep them from me, and I will not-buy the poo poo out of your next book.
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Jul 24, 2011 07:57
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A missing climax and the excellent prologue aside I'd say ADWD was easily the quality of ACoK, but otherwise a great letter. You should send it to him with a bit of flayed Theon wrapped around. 
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Jul 24, 2011 08:21
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:Arya had an interesting story but unfortunately the entire Faceless Men plot is absolutely ridiculous in a world that seems otherwise believable, even considering the magic and dragons. The Faceless Men are simply too ridiculously perfect in a world that is otherwise relatively realistically imperfect. Linguica posted:This is pretty strong language considering we've seen basically nothing of how the Faceless Men actually work as an organization Yeah, especially since, as someone said above, the first one we met was stuck in the black cells of the Red Keep.
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Jul 24, 2011 08:28
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