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My protocol with dealing with authority is as follows: If anyone asks what I'm doing, I just tell them the truth "taking pictures". If they ask for what I say "personal art". If I'm on private property and I'm told to stop taking pictures, I just leave. I tell them I'm leaving, stop answering any questions, and just walk away. If I'm asked to stop shooting on public property by anyone, cop or security, I tell them to gently caress off. There is nothing they can legally do to me. Now if I were doing something illegal, like trespassing, then the rules change. Haven't had that happen.
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Jul 22, 2011 04:52
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We had a visiting artist come out to give some guest lectures and critiques at my art college back in 2006 or so. He was a photographer/videographer, an art professor, and a touring VJ. He'd come out to chat with our video art class about VJ stuff and video performances. He had fairly dark-olive complexion and a vaguely middle-Eastern sounding name. Might have been Turkish-American? Not really sure now. Anyways, at some point between 2001-2006, he'd wanted to get some stock footage of industrial scenes for his VJ work, so he drove around industrial areas filming the smokestacks and girders and whatnot. While stopped on a public road, a security jeep drove past, gave him a weird look, then drove off. He didn't think much of it until about fifteen minutes later when he was swarmed by fuckin' black Suburbans. Dudes in body armor, M16s/MP5s drawn and pointed at him, so much yelling. He was detained and they interrogated him for several hours. Even after months of paperwork and legal issues proving that he really does have a steady job teaching at an American art school and that he really does have a side-career as a VJ, he was STILL put on watch lists and the No Fly List. It really screwed things up for his touring career, he had to notify the government anytime he wanted to travel and get permission in advance. Haggins posted:Now if I were doing something illegal, like trespassing, then the rules change. Haven't had that happen. I've done a lot of urbex stuff and I'm still worried about that, but one of my buddies got caught by police in the middle of a derelict factory last year. Cops said they got a call and just wanted to see what he was doing, they asked to look at his preview screen, complimented his shots and then just asked him to pack up and leave. They took his license number but nothing else happened. Dr. Cogwerks fucked around with this message at 08:29 on Jul 22, 2011 |
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Jul 22, 2011 08:25
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Dr. Cogwerks posted:While stopped on a public road, a security jeep drove past, gave him a weird look, then drove off. He didn't think much of it until about fifteen minutes later when he was swarmed by fuckin' black Suburbans. Dudes in body armor, M16s/MP5s drawn and pointed at him, so much yelling. He was detained and they interrogated him for several hours. Sounds like somebody found a NEST team (or whatever their tactical teams are called now). They don't gently caress around. This brings up the point of using common sense. In this case, a man of middle-eastern appearance was driving around photographing near what was apparently some sort of energy facility or something similar (steel mills and the like don't have rapid response teams). Whether you want to cry foul for profiling or not, remember that in the years following the US's largest terrorist attack, this is exactly the kind of thing people were being told to look out for every day. Sure the photographer was within his right, but that doesn't mean it was the best idea. Maybe some research into the area would have made him rethink his plans for the day, or at least be aware of the potential consequences.
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Jul 22, 2011 10:49
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AceClown posted:Edit: this is the MET's stance on it http://www.met.police.uk/about/photography.htm Just so you know what to actually expect when you don't have a second bloke running video. Last time their sent a citywide memo, it took them 3 whole days to go back to piling on someone. Dr. Cogwerks posted:While stopped on a public road, a security jeep drove past, gave him a weird look, then drove off. He didn't think much of it until about fifteen minutes later when he was swarmed by fuckin' black Suburbans. SeamusMcPhisticuffs posted:Sounds like somebody found a NEST team (or whatever their tactical teams are called now). They don't gently caress around. evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Jul 22, 2011 |
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Jul 22, 2011 11:04
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evil_bunnY posted:On the other hand... There's something wrong when the BJP has a tag just for Met-related problems: http://www.bjp-online.com/tag/metropolitan-police Though, out of all the UK police forces, I believe they have the worst reputation.
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Jul 22, 2011 11:21
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evil_bunnY posted:You tax dollar hard at work right there, providing serious "lay down the donut" response time. Seriously? You're going to gauge a response time from a second hand account of something that happened between 5 - 10 years ago? I know "gently caress the police" is hip and all, but NEST isn't police. They're more akin to special forces and FBI HRT. The point I was trying to make wasn't LOLCOPS but rather that you should think about potential consequences before you do things.
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Jul 22, 2011 11:26
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SeamusMcPhisticuffs posted:Seriously? You're going to gauge a response time from a second hand account of something that happened between 5 - 10 years ago?
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Jul 22, 2011 11:57
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SeamusMcPhisticuffs posted:Seriously? You're going to gauge a response time from a second hand account of something that happened between 5 - 10 years ago? I know "gently caress the police" is hip and all, but NEST isn't police. They're more akin to special forces and FBI HRT. The point I was trying to make wasn't LOLCOPS but rather to blame the victim.
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Jul 22, 2011 11:57
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evil_bunnY posted:Heh. AFAIKnew NEST doesn't even provide the armed response, I thought they rely on FBI and local LEOs for security. I think they're DHS now, but the response sounds like what was shown in a boring training video I had to watch. pwn posted:I clarified your point for you. Yeah, gently caress thinking about things, just do it man. Reality is for pussies, I live in a world where I am the only one that is right! This is the attitude that breeds shitbag cops and shitbag photographers alike.
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Jul 22, 2011 12:17
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SeamusMcPhisticuffs posted:I think they're DHS now, but the response sounds like what was shown in a boring training video I had to watch. edit: Please try to understand the fallacy of the argument you're making. The same exact logic has been used to keep homosexuals in the closet, interracial coupling, etc. The attitudes that fuel oppression cannot be overcome by kowtowing to them. pwn fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Jul 22, 2011 |
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Jul 22, 2011 12:51
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pwn posted:Don't do anything that may be suspicious, brown people. Including _____ I was just making use of the example that was given. I'm not advocating what happened by any means. I realize though that I'm dragging this off topic, as accidentally taking photos of/near a sensitive government facility and the fun and excitement that follows is not the same thing as an rear end in a top hat cop not knowing how to do his job. The original point I was trying to make was that a little common sense can go a long ways if you're not looking for conflict.
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Jul 22, 2011 13:34
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SeamusMcPhisticuffs posted:Yeah, gently caress thinking about things, just do it man. Reality is for pussies, I live in a world where I am the only one that is right!
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Jul 22, 2011 13:37
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FasterThanLight posted:Yeah man, he should have known to magically turn himself white before going out and attempting to do his job and not break any laws. What a shitbag. As someone who has had a similar incident (albeit much more benign), and is about as white as they come, I can assure you that they don't just give the friendly "white people are a-ok wave" and let you go about your business if you're doing something they deem suspicious. The funniest part to me is that if anyone remotely intelligent wanted to gather intelligence on a possible target the last thing they would do is sit in plain view with a video camera on a tripod.
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Jul 22, 2011 14:35
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If I were a terrorist, I would totally set up a camera and tripod in plain view, that would be so stupid that it would be the last thing anyone will expect me to do. 
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Jul 23, 2011 04:43
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Terrorists go cuckoo for cocoa puffs over Rolleiflex TLRs. It's their kryptonite.
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Jul 23, 2011 04:55
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INTJ Mastermind posted:If I were a terrorist, I would totally set up a camera and tripod in plain view, that would be so stupid that it would be the last thing anyone will expect me to do. If you're doing something a cop doesn't understand or thinks is silly, you're in for a long discussion.
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Jul 23, 2011 05:02
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:After having been hassled, detained, and lectured for two hours after doing just such a thing (with the same reasoning), I can say that this is not true. Care to share the experience?
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Jul 23, 2011 17:00
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Yeah, here it is posted from an email I sent to a friend about three days later. This happened in June of 2007. ---- First the location: Near an airport. I'm aware that lots of people think it's a bad idea, or looks suspicious, to photograph airplanes. That's okay. It is not, however, illegal to photograph commercial airliners. There's a nice site devoted to the very professional pursuit thereof: airliners.net I was parked in a gravel entry to a field. Across the street from me was the airport with high barbed wire fence. I was parked there for about 30 minutes, photographing, and later walked further down the road about 100 yards to get a better line on the airplanes as they approached. I had one body on a tripod with a long lens and a second camera with a wide angle lens. About 20 minutes later, as I was getting tired of waiting on some interesting planes, I noticed a truck moving in the airport very far away and driving quickly. I said to myself as a joke "I bet they're coming for me!" Then the truck got to the gate near me. Then the truck stopped at my car. At no point did I ever look directly at the vehicle; I knew what I was going was legal. If they wanna check it out, fine. But I wasn't interested in volunteering myself for anything. So, I turned my back to the road and started taking some photos with the wide angle. I heard a truck drive up to me slowly then speed off as it passed. It went down the road, turned around, and did it again. Then it parked about 40 feet beyond my car watched me. A few minutes later there are flashing lights near my car. I started paying attention at this point, and that's also when the police car sped toward me. The officer got out of his car and asked me what I was doing. I'll give some dialogue, most of it verbatim. Cop: Now what do you think you're doing out here? Me: Photographing airplanes. Cop: Why are you doing that? Me: Well, it's challenging. I've never done it before, and I just got this new lens and camera so I wanted to try it. Cop: You don't think that's a bad idea, with everything going on right now? Me: *Speechless* So he frisked me and gave me the usual "Who are you?" etc. I slipped up big time, though. He asked me where I worked and I said I didn't have a job, I had only recently moved back to America. poo poo. I saw the glimmer in his eye as he thought he got him one of 'dem terrists. The background here is boring, but suffice to say he didn't seem to believe much of my reasons why I had been outside the country. Oddly enough, throughout my entire time with him he doubted everything I said EXCEPT that I had lived outside the country. He seemed to really latch on to that one. Basically believing whatever fit the narrative he had already created. He kept asking me why I was doing this, if I thought it was a bad idea. I said no, if people really wanted photographs of airplanes for devious purposes they wouldn't stand near a busy road and photograph them, they'd get them off the internet or from a book. Then came the doozy. "You don't remember 9/11? You don't remember what happened there? That could happen again, here!" If I had a pistol I would have splattered my brains across the top of his patrol car. Finally he asked me for my driver's license. I didn't it on me, as it was in my car. He thought this was weird... but I wasn't driving; why would I be compelled to make sure I had my driver's license? So I had given him all my information orally, most importantly my social security number. He called in the usual background check or whatever it is cops do. And then things went to poo poo. They had no record of me. Anywhere. At this pointed I was on the verge of panicking. Why the hell couldn't they find any record of me? I gave him my information many, many, times. He double-checked. Triple-checked. Nothing. I did not exist. For about 20 minutes he was calling people and finding out where to take me for the FBI. The building, the floor, the office number. He was talking about how long they were going to have to detain me. I know now, thinking a bit more clearly, that he didn't know a damned thing about how the FBI worked, but sitting in the back of a police car, being called everything short of a terrorist, and not being able to prove you are who you say you are has it's ways of loving with your mind. He keeps asking me why I was living abroad. What I was doing. Why I was doing it? Am I sure I'm not in the military? He really thinks I look like I'm in the military. I don't know why but the fact that I was so far from my car caused a problem, or at least was important enough that he had to keep mentioning it to everyone he spoke to. He finally decided to take me back there to get my driver's license. He packed up my camera gear and we went back. Before opening my car he had a good look inside with his flashlight and walked around it a bit. He got my license number and ran it. I waited. I sweated. A lot. I existed. The call came back that my license was valid. He had another vehicle bring paperwork to write me a parking ticket. As it turns out, I was parked illegally. There were signs I had not seen in my haste to get in a better position. I'll state now that I couldn't care less about the parking ticket and I deserved it. He sounded a tad disappointed that I came back with no criminal record on numerous databases. After some guffawing and chit-chatting (for about 15 minutes) with the other guys, I was released with a ticket. He "had" to file a "supplemental" report with the FBI detailing what happened and my background. He mentioned that the FBI didn't "think it was a good idea" that I was photographing airplanes either. He joked with some people on the phone: "That's what I said! Why not go take some pictures of some girls or something to test it out, you know, make those pictures interesting!" He said that the airport owned the land I was on, but I was about 7 feet from the side of the road, and there was a fence indicating a property line another 5 feet behind me. I was under the impression that the road and the land around it to any fence was considered public property, and nobody has said otherwise. He also said the airport owned the field next to me, but I don't necessarily believe him. In any case, I wasn't past the fence and therefore I believe on public property. He departed. I got a call about an hour later: "I didn't get your eye color. Okay, and your hair? And you're sure you've never been in the military?" At no point did anyone ever say that what I was doing was illegal. From the officer's demeanor, the things he was mentioning on the phone repeatedly, and the questions he was asking me, it seemed to boil down to the following. I was doing something he didn't agree with or understand. I had been out of the country. I wasn't in the military, but I looked like it. He had a badge, so he was going to do something about it because he had "never had one of these before." I flew to Minneapolis last week, so apparently the FBI things I'm a red-blooded Amerakun and am safe. I'm also well-aware he did more than one thing that he shouldn't have. He should have asked for my ID immediately. He could not take my cellphone. He could not open my car. He could not keep me in the rear of the car without a charge. Of course, all of that goes out the window when it's he and I in a courtroom, his word against mine, and the suspicions that I was a "t-word" floating in the air. God Bless America.
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Jul 24, 2011 03:34
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Of course, had I been photographing random women with a long lens I'm sure I would have had people on my rear end a lot faster and for a more legitimate reason. I still remember that officer's name and badge number.
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Jul 24, 2011 03:36
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Dont talk to the police. All you need is to identify yourself. Then ask if you're free to go. If not ask if you're under arrest. If so ask on what charges and demand a lawyer. If not ask again if you're free to go. The only things out of your mouth should be "Am I free to go?" and "I want a lawyer."
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Jul 24, 2011 03:46
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INTJ Mastermind posted:Dont talk to the police. All you need is to identify yourself. Then ask if you're free to go. If not ask if you're under arrest. If so ask on what charges and demand a lawyer. If not ask again if you're free to go. The only things out of your mouth should be "Am I free to go?" and "I want a lawyer." But let's face it: if a cop is set on doing something, he's gonna loving do it then sort it out in the court while getting overtime and with the entire department and police union at his back. In a rural Oklahoma field with just a cop that thinks I'm a terrorist? Sorry, gonna answer some questions. I didn't have medical insurance.
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Jul 24, 2011 03:55
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It sounds like your trouble was more the result of some clerical error causing you not to show up in the system. The police officer was admittedly acting outside of this legal boundary and you could have put him to the test by asking if you were under arrest or free to go, but as you said it was probably a better decision to just answer the questions and not cause trouble. I bet that if you would have shown up when he looked you up it would have been much less of an ordeal. Personally, with what the cop had to work with, it sounds like a relatively good interaction.
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Jul 24, 2011 04:15
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Must had an adrenaline rush eh! It's almost fantasy.
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Jul 24, 2011 04:21
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:
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Jul 24, 2011 04:35
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robertdx posted:From one Okie to another: This wasn't in Tulsa right?
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Jul 24, 2011 04:49
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Is there some universal rule that lightning only strikes while your shutter is cycling? 
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Jul 24, 2011 07:22
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Also cops are allowed to detain you for 15 minutes if they have suspicion but not enough for an arrest. But YOU DONT NEED TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS DURING THAT TIME. And it's best if you don't because theyre trying to get you to admit something that they can arrest you for.
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Jul 24, 2011 09:38
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EVERY SINGLE TIME I take a picture and I go "oh, that's too light, I guess I better lower my shutter speed to something slower" and then I take the even more overexposed photo and realize I'm just permanently dumb.
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Jul 24, 2011 11:31
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HookShot posted:EVERY SINGLE TIME I take a picture and I go "oh, that's too light, I guess I better lower my shutter speed to something slower" and then I take the even more overexposed photo and realize I'm just permanently dumb. My current thing is when I put the camera on 2s delay, I forget to take it off, so the next time I try to take a photo, I push the button like 5 times wondering why there's no clicky. Then as a reach for the dial, it fires and I get a wonderful picture of the ground or something.
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Jul 24, 2011 11:41
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HookShot posted:EVERY SINGLE TIME I take a picture and I go "oh, that's too light, I guess I better lower my shutter speed to something slower" and then I take the even more overexposed photo and realize I'm just permanently dumb. Mine is: *Takes boring looking photo* "Oh that shot is going to look boring. I'd better try again and maybe try to plan the frame this time" *Bends down lower and takes nearly identical boring picture with absolutely zero forethought yet again* And then I get home and I'm all "oh poo poo what the gently caress why are all my photos boring snapshots??"
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Jul 24, 2011 19:00
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INTJ Mastermind posted:Also cops are allowed to detain you for 15 minutes if they have suspicion but not enough for an arrest. But YOU DONT NEED TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS DURING THAT TIME. And it's best if you don't because theyre trying to get you to admit something that they can arrest you for. There is no magic time they're allowed to detain you. If you aren't free to leave, it's essentially an arrest. And you NEVER have to answer questions. And it's very, very rarely a good idea to do so.
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Jul 24, 2011 19:29
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However, answering questions and staying personable can work wonders for diffusing problems. Cops are trained to seize control of a situation, which is why they come off like such complete dicks. But there's still a person under there who will in general respond favorably to making their life easier. It comes down to figuring out what kind of person the officer is, and if he wants to play hardball, you play it back. But if it's just some dude who's counting minutes until his shift is over, giving him what he needs will make the whole thing go by faster.
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Jul 24, 2011 19:39
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torgeaux posted:There is no magic time they're allowed to detain you. If you aren't free to leave, it's essentially an arrest. And you NEVER have to answer questions. And it's very, very rarely a good idea to do so.
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Jul 24, 2011 22:29
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evil_bunnY posted:I swear Miranda'ing someone should just be: "You're under arrest. Shut your loving mouth" But, as a society, we WANT people to talk, especially if they're guilty.
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Jul 24, 2011 22:41
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I had good luck once explaining to a cop what I was doing and my intentions when some guy got angry for me taking his picture on the street. It was taken at a distance, not in his face, and he really was overreacting. It was more or less a shot of the street with him being in it, but not really a close-up street shot or anything. He got very angry and tried to take the camera from me. Then people started gathering around and tried to block me from leaving. It almost got out of control. Thankfully a cop car drove by and the policeman stopped and got out, and I was able to explain I was on a public street and I meant no harm and the cop totally backed me up. Somehow, I think the cops in NYC might be better trained than in other places. Either that, or he could tell the guy giving me a hard time was being totally unreasonable (and actually getting on the verge of violent) so he took my side. I have to say, I hustled out of their pretty quick because I was afraid when the cop left this guy's gang of people would follow me, but I was okay in the end. This happened about 2 years ago.
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Jul 25, 2011 00:07
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evil_bunnY posted:I swear Miranda'ing someone should just be: "You're under arrest. Shut your loving mouth" This sentence is a lot weirder if you read Miranda as the camera company.
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Jul 25, 2011 02:21
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torgeaux posted:There is no magic time they're allowed to detain you. If you aren't free to leave, it's essentially an arrest. And you NEVER have to answer questions. And it's very, very rarely a good idea to do so. e: If you are under arrest though, certainly don't do blabbing on about stupid poo poo like you see on COPS.
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Jul 25, 2011 02:58
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torgeaux posted:But, as a society, we WANT people to talk, especially if they're guilty.
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Jul 25, 2011 11:14
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spf3million posted:I think if you know you weren't doing anything wrong than answering some questions will help you avoid getting arrested. But if you refuse to be cooperative with the questions than I think you're more likely to be detained even if the cop has to make up a reason for arresting you. Answering questions about any potential crime you may or may have not committed will always lead to the police doing whatever they want to do. Usually (but not always) that means arresting or ticketing you. Pockyless fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Jul 25, 2011 |
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Jul 25, 2011 12:30
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Does anybody know how to recover lightroom catalogs? I had a catalog on my macbook pro, and when I got my iMac I started a new catalog. Stupidly, I didn't transfer the old one over. I had been doing regular backups into my Dropbox folder, but none of those seem to be working for some reason. Maybe because they were originally made in LR2 and I have LR3 on here now? Any ideas?
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Jul 25, 2011 15:09
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