|
Ygolonac posted:At one point, my local library had a large-format paperbound book that had a lot of details about the missile fields, and maps of each silo/command capsule/site, for the entire SAC missile deployment (at least what was unclassified/known). Damned if I can remember the name of the thing, it's been at least 6-8 years since I saw it. Whatup if sudden Commie Attack happened we would have been screwed buddy.   I live in Grand Forks, ND which is close to the Grand Forks Air Base. We had the first Strategic Air Command for a while meaning we had B52s and Minute Man II ICBMs very close by.
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2011 14:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 20:28 |
|
|
iyaayas01 posted:Back then, these systems weren't necessarily always in place; it depended on the aircraft. For example, the B-52 did not have a system installed originally: the crew depended on either a verbal bailout command or an "eject" light to initiate the sequence. Each crew member was responsible for ejecting themselves. The B-52 IIRC had DOWNWARD ejecting seats for some (two??) of the positions. Hope you ain't doing that "down in the weeds" flying when you have to bail out...
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2011 16:09
|
|
|
wkarma posted:Let me save you some time. So, looks like The Day After was completely accurate in portraying Minuteman silos right across the street from family farms! Holy poo poo!
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2011 16:13
|
|
|
NosmoKing posted:The B-52 IIRC had DOWNWARD ejecting seats for some (two??) of the positions. Yeah. http://www.ejectionsite.com/b-52.htm The navigator and radar navigator went out the bottom apparently.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2011 16:23
|
|
|
wkarma posted:Let me save you some time. Does anyone have this, but for the SAC air force bases?
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2011 16:38
|
|
|
Wow. Atlas E3 site 567-3 is a few miles from my best friend's home and the town I grew up in. I had no idea. We had birthdays 1 day a part and often celebrated them at his place. As children of the 80's, it's weird to think about what was right down the road.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2011 16:55
|
|
|
As a military brat I always lived right by bases. At any time during the 80s I would've been deader than dead in a nuclear exchange unless we were visiting my grandparents in Grass Valley. Oh, wait, they lived pretty close to Beale.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2011 22:52
|
|
|
Considering that I live less than a mile from TACOM and what used to be a huge Abrams plant, and also only about 15-20 minutes from Selfridge Airforce Base (which used to have B-52s) I feel pretty confident in assuming that in the event of sudden commie nuclear attack, I probably wouldn't even know it, maybe just see a flash of light or something.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2011 04:08
|
|
|
Vincent Van Goatse posted:As a military brat I always lived right by bases. At any time during the 80s I would've been deader than dead in a nuclear exchange unless we were visiting my grandparents in Grass Valley. Oh, wait, they lived pretty close to Beale. Me too but in the UK. Grew up (and still live) right next to RAF Finningley in Yorkshire. It's now a commercial airport but as a kid (and having watched Threads) we all knew we probably wouldn't even hear the bang when the Russkies pushed the button. Didn't help when I watched a documentary in the 80s about an exercise and the guys had a map of the UK on the wall and were saying something like 'let's assume 15-20 warheads targeted at Finningley'. On the plus side (I think), it turned me into the aviation/military nerd I am today!
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2011 09:21
|
|
|
I grew up in Las Vegas. Not sure what would have happened, other than being blown up by Matthew Broderick and Ally Sheedy. I did get to feel some underground tests. We lived in NW vegas. They'd announce the times on the radio so people wouldn't freak out. We lived in a trailer, so everything shook pretty good. It was cool.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 03:06
|
|
|
I would have figured that if you were really serious about national air defense, you'd put the missile all over the joint and inside of innocuous items like cargo containers. Maskirovka is the name of the game comrade! 
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 13:18
|
|
|
Hey, nuclear target chat! I live fairly close to Stewart International, which is also home to the 105th Airlift of the New York ANG. Back when I was younger it was a full fledged Air Force base, and IIRC it's the 6th longest airstrip in the nation. I think the longest is like 35,000 feet. It was a bomber base, the whole deal. When you throw in the fact that West Point is only a few minutes down the road, too, I would have been nuked multiple times over, probably with some of the bigger bombs in the Soviet arsenal. Accuracy? We don't need no stinkin' accuracy, make the bombs bigger! e- oh and at the time, one of the more important IBM factories was here too, making whatever it was IBM was selling in the 60's and 70's. That location was once their main factory, and it made the computer that faced Kasparov in chess Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at 13:32 on Jul 24, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 13:28
|
|
|
VikingSkull posted:Hey, nuclear target chat! There's a bike shop (of all odd places to find it) here in WI that has a civil defense target map of the Twin Cities area in MN. It shows the estimated DGZ's and damage areas for the metro and surrounding area. I'll see if it's still there and get a picture of it if I can. Anyone know of an online source where a bunch of these things are compiled??
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 13:36
|
|
|
I've seen one of those before. Since I live in the greater NYC metro area, there were red circles going right up the Hudson River valley. Good stuff. Oh and I guess the longest listed runway at Stewart is just shy of 12,000 feet. I think there's a longer one that's not being included, but I can't find it anywhere.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 14:01
|
|
|
NosmoKing posted:There's a bike shop (of all odd places to find it) here in WI that has a civil defense target map of the Twin Cities area in MN. It shows the estimated DGZ's and damage areas for the metro and surrounding area. I found this site that has everything listed by state. You can click each state to see a map of the affected cities. It also has a national fallout map and a prevailing winds map. The website itself is a little  but the maps are of the revision from FEMA in 1990.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 14:08
|
|
|
Xerxes17 posted:I would have figured that if you were really serious about national air defense, you'd put the missile all over the joint and inside of innocuous items like cargo containers. Maskirovka is the name of the game comrade! Had to google maskirovka and this page about the cuban crisis poped up: https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol46no1/article06.html Makes for an interesting read.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 15:17
|
|
|
Shoot, I live about as close to Ellsworth as you can get without being on base (literally less than a mile from the runway, closer to the runway than most of the base housing is, especially after they removed some of the unused buildings).
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 18:04
|
|
|
Growing up in Victoria, BC I was fairly close to the Trident sub base in Bangor, WA. So it'd be fairly bad times all round for that area of the pacific northwest. Also home of Canada's pacific fleet (in Esquimalt), if the russians felt like using a nuke on that. What the hell they had enough of em.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 20:17
|
|
|
I've got you all beat (except for maybe Vincent since his grandparents lived outside Beale, because that was getting hit right off the bat.) I grew up right next to Offutt...you know, SAC Headquarters, underground command post, home of the Looking Glass airborne command post as well as the E-4 NEACP (now NAOC)/"Doomsday Plane". A couple bunker busting 15 MT warheads on the SAC CP would've made for a bad day for everyone concerned. On an unrelated note, I got to fly with the Australians on their C-130J during a Red Flag sortie up here last week...that was quite a ride. Got to sit up on the flight deck during the low level portion of the flight and I don't think we got above 300' AGL the whole time. The GCAS would go off at least once every minute or two. They cranked it around in a couple turns that definitely exceeded 60 degrees of bank.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 21:20
|
|
|
NosmoKing posted:There's a bike shop (of all odd places to find it) here in WI that has a civil defense target map of the Twin Cities area in MN. It shows the estimated DGZ's and damage areas for the metro and surrounding area. If nuclear war broke out, I really wouldn't want to be living where I am right now. I'm pretty sure Seattle would just get wiped off the map. Oh, and have an F/A-18. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 21:34
|
|
|
This is always a good read, too. Theoretical nuclear exchange between the US and USSR.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 21:43
|
|
VikingSkull posted:This is always a good read, too. I like that they think a nuclear exchange between the US and the USSR automatically means that the rest of the world will fall into civil war just because.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 22:23
|
|
|
priznat posted:Growing up in Victoria, BC I was fairly close to the Trident sub base in Bangor, WA. So it'd be fairly bad times all round for that area of the pacific northwest. why the hell have I never seen you at any of the PNW shoots but I've shot like half a dozen times with Mike?
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 22:44
|
|
|
Armyman25 posted:I like that they think a nuclear exchange between the US and the USSR automatically means that the rest of the world will fall into civil war just because. In 1988? Not that unlikely, given all the proxy war poo poo happening.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 23:25
|
|
|
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if a massive shift in the world geopolitical scene caused by a major nuclear exchange between the USSR and US would be the starting point for numerous civil wars world wide. Many of the governments in power would suddenly find themselves without the financial and material support that one of the two superpowers had previously been providing. This sudden perceived weakness would be just what anti government groups would be looking for as a sign to go for a power grab. That said at the end of the article there is a somewhat positive outlook in that its not the world killing nuclear winter that some people had predicted. Nearly all of TFR's population would have been killed, but at least other places in the world would continue on.
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 23:34
|
|
|
SyHopeful posted:why the hell have I never seen you at any of the PNW shoots but I've shot like half a dozen times with Mike? I suck and haven't been down to the US in a good 5-6 years just because I'm really lazy and hate travel 
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2011 23:54
|
|
|
Armyman25 posted:I like that they think a nuclear exchange between the US and the USSR automatically means that the rest of the world will fall into civil war just because. South Africa and China are mentioned by name, and parts of that were written shortly after Tiananmen Square and before Nelson Mandela was freed. When you shut off the largest food exporter and irradiate the large industrial sectors of the world, the least you can expect is massive food riots in parts of the third world. Look at how quickly Libya devolved from unarmed protest to armed civil war. kill me now posted:That said at the end of the article there is a somewhat positive outlook in that its not the world killing nuclear winter that some people had predicted. Nearly all of TFR's population would have been killed, but at least other places in the world would continue on. Both sides of the nuclear debate usually color the discussion with exaggerations either way. Nuclear winter probably doesn't mean the extinction of the human race, or even the end of civilization as we know it. It most likely would set our development back a few hundred years, though. Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Jul 25, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2011 13:45
|
|
|
VikingSkull posted:South Africa and China are mentioned by name, and parts of that were written shortly after Tiananmen Square and before Nelson Mandela was freed. Not too mention what people controlling the remainder of the US/Russia arsenals would do after the governmental collapse. I could see those nukes getting used fairly frequently and fighting to control them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2011 13:59
|
|
|
Aciid c0d3r posted:I found this site that has everything listed by state. Wyoming's is great. http://www.ki4u.com/webpal/d_resources/states/wy.htm There's not much to shoot at in Wyoming... unless you live in Laramie county. Cheyenne Mountain and Warren Air Force Base get a little extra something. You know, just to make sure. Edit: North Dakota is pretty hosed too, and their fallout pattern fucks much of the upper Midwest. Scratch Monkey fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Jul 25, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2011 14:22
|
|
|
VikingSkull posted:South Africa and China are mentioned by name, and parts of that were written shortly after Tiananmen Square and before Nelson Mandela was freed. I'd like to see the SIOP and see if there's a few "Aw, gently caress THAT guy" targets on the list. As long as you're tossing ten thousand warheads and more at targets in the USSR, don't you think there would be the periodic "may as well blow up that dickhead as long as we're going completely balls-out" targets as well. Toss Lybia, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, and any other "this guy has always been a pain in my rear end" targets on the list of places to remove from the surface of the earth as well as long as you're ending the world.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2011 15:02
|
|
|
NosmoKing posted:I'd like to see the SIOP and see if there's a few "Aw, gently caress THAT guy" targets on the list. As long as you're tossing ten thousand warheads and more at targets in the USSR, don't you think there would be the periodic "may as well blow up that dickhead as long as we're going completely balls-out" targets as well. Pretty much any place that could be used by either side for tactical or strategic movement and supply would be targeted. The Suez and Panama canals? Gone. Do you have a major port, dam, or highway and rail systems? It's getting nuked. Airfield of, say, 10,000 feet? Bye bye. At the height of the Cold War, most of the world had either willingly or unwillingly been included in one side or the other.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2011 15:18
|
|
|
Scratch Monkey posted:Wyoming's is great. Cheyenne is a city in Wyoming and no where near anything you'd call a mountain. Those are most likely ICBM sites. Also I believe there used to be a nuke power plant either there or on the other side of the boarder in Colorado. Cheyenne Mountain is in Colorado Springs about 180 miles away and that's where NORAD is. The mountain is actually cracked and unsuitable for the original goals, but they found out too late and decided to push forward. They'd just count on Soviet nukes not being accurate enough to get a direct hit. From the Colorado page on that site: quote:DENSE PACK - Look at all those target sites. So close Together! It serves a purpose. It is missiles protecting missles, and this is how it is done. These are "hardened" sites. Meaning it takes a direct ground explosion to dig them out. An air burst will not do it. When you have a ground explosion it throws many tons of dust and sand up into the air. High into the air. This is what will later become fallout carried by the winds hundreds, sometimes thousands, of miles away. But right over that site that has just been hit the sand and grit in the air is very thick for quite a while. Another high speed missile (ICBM) trying to come through it will have its skin torn off just like by sand blasting and it will be destroyed. So the other missile sites nearby are safe. On the other hand, because missiles take off much slower than the speeds they eventually reach, the missiles in the undamaged silos can still be launched and will pass through the dust cloud without be harmed. Neat, eh? See there is a purpose in putting so many in one place. Now the only way that you can dig them out is with what is called a slow walk. Hit a target. Move on further and hit another target where the dust from the first won't hurt you. Come back thirty or forty-five minutes later and hit a second target near where you hit the first, after the cloud has had time to blow away. A slow process. Some silos will already have launched and you will waste the shot. Others can still wait to launch later because you can only get one at a time. This could go on for days. Neat. The military missiles protecting missiles. But they don't protect you, because if you are downwind you will get the fallout. Fatal if you are not in a shelter. They call it Defense but it is only Destruction. Nothing here defends or protects you, if they are used. NathanScottPhillips fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Jul 25, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2011 15:24
|
|
VikingSkull posted:Pretty much any place that could be used by either side for tactical or strategic movement and supply would be targeted. The Suez and Panama canals? Gone. Do you have a major port, dam, or highway and rail systems? It's getting nuked. Airfield of, say, 10,000 feet? Bye bye. Sounds like a good argument for reducing the amount of nukes in the world.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2011 15:26
|
|
|
Armyman25 posted:Sounds like a good argument for reducing the amount of nukes in the world. Thankfully, a lot have been destroyed since the early 90's, but there's no realistic difference between 5,000 and 50,000.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2011 15:29
|
|
|
NathanScottPhillips posted:Cheyenne Mountain is in Colorado Springs about 180 miles away and that's where NORAD is. Oops you're right. However I'm going to guess that that air force base I mentioned is in the middle of a missile field or something. quote:The mountain is actually cracked and unsuitable for the original goals, but they found out too late and decided to push forward. I guess it found a second life as a provider of establishing shots for lots of movies and TV shows that take place in a cool looking underground military installation.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2011 15:39
|
|
|
wkarma posted:Let me save you some time. That is fantastic. Thanks.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2011 20:17
|
|
|
slidebite posted:That is fantastic. Thanks. This is loving awesome! I have literally driven within a few hundred yards of some of those sights and had no fuckin clue.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2011 20:31
|
|
|
VikingSkull posted:Thankfully, a lot have been destroyed since the early 90's, but there's no realistic difference between 5,000 and 50,000. This is one time I'll borrow from Tom Clancy: I have a gun pointed at your head with a full 13 bullets. I dump out 7, still feel safe bro?  Also good to know the Soviets considered Detroit worthy of destruction, go Michigan!  (insert comment about how Detroit already looks like a nuke hit it here)
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2011 20:56
|
|
|
In cold war terms Detroit was still a major industrial center. It might not be as easy to turn a car factory into a tank factory these days, but its still got plenty of use if it came to slugging it out.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2011 21:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 20:28 |
|
|
NosmoKing posted:I'd like to see the SIOP and see if there's a few "Aw, gently caress THAT guy" targets on the list. As long as you're tossing ten thousand warheads and more at targets in the USSR, don't you think there would be the periodic "may as well blow up that dickhead as long as we're going completely balls-out" targets as well. I just asked dad about this. He used to carry the SIOP with him to work when he was flight crew on Looking Glass, SAC's airborne command post. He says that it was pretty much just the kind of thing you'd expect, nothing that really seemed out of place.
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2011 23:59
|
|
