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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Ah, so the goal is to get something around 18-19" at its largest measure? Your above link didn't work, but I found the same YMI $35 product. Here's a nicer looking YMI verison with "Yunzi" stones for $60+. Per WP, Yunzi is some kind of secret Chinese composite material; is it worth the extra cost overall? Personally, I really like Yunzi stones, specifically the single convex. The snap is really satisfying. I also feel the material is much better than glass. I think the more important question is do you and your cousin like the look of the Yunzi more than other materials? I find folding boards are generally terrible. The hinge tends cause the board to not lie flat, which makes playing along the middle annoying. Plus, some of them have a gap between the two boards. Slotted boards are much better, but are a bit of a pain to put together and take apart(not to mention the potential of breaking the slots). I would just suggest getting a non-travel, standard sized board, unless traveling a 18-19" square-ish board is going to be a big problem. In that case, I would look into a slotted board.
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Jun 29, 2011 13:36
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Ah, so the goal is to get something around 18-19" at its largest measure? Your above link didn't work, but I found the same YMI $35 product. Here's a nicer looking YMI verison with "Yunzi" stones for $60+. Per WP, Yunzi is some kind of secret Chinese composite material; is it worth the extra cost overall? 18x19 is about the normal board size, and it's what the stones are made for. Yunzi stones are some kind of mixture of jadeite and ash, I think; there is nothing particularly special about them but the black stones are actually a really dark, translucent green, which is neat. They are pretty durable and they won't chip or get hosed up. As far as folding boards go, folding tends to go hand-in-hand with poor quality, just like so many other things with moving parts that are made in China. Yutopian has some good quality ones for around 70 dollars, but that is probably too much to spend on something like that. My club has a bunch of boards that are just inked on clipboard material, and those are really tough, don't weigh anything, and are easy to store. I'm not sure where they got them, though.
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Jun 29, 2011 20:11
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yumi17 told me about BruGo.BE, it's like a nice little dictionary of fuseki sorta.
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Jul 4, 2011 17:40
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Thanks for the board recommendations! I think for my cousin and myself I'll just get some standard-sized boards and some Yunzu stones. These aren't for traveling, and I reckon a flat board is pretty easy to stash between objects for easy storage. I did the online "The Interactive Way To Go" java site and it was a lot of fun. I don't feel ready yet to play against other people, so I thought I'd try playing against some AI for a few weeks. The problem I'm hitting, as a totally non-tech guy, is that most of the free online man-vs.-AI go programs involved downloading "source code", DOS prompts, and all kinds of craziness. Is there not just some simple browser-based "click here to start and play against the computer" go option? I just looked over several of the recommended programs, and couldn't understand how to actually make any of them work once I unzipped a bunch of random .txt files and all.
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Jul 4, 2011 19:43
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:I did the online "The Interactive Way To Go" java site and it was a lot of fun. I don't feel ready yet to play against other people, so I thought I'd try playing against some AI for a few weeks. The problem I'm hitting, as a totally non-tech guy, is that most of the free online man-vs.-AI go programs involved downloading "source code", DOS prompts, and all kinds of craziness. Is there not just some simple browser-based "click here to start and play against the computer" go option? I just looked over several of the recommended programs, and couldn't understand how to actually make any of them work once I unzipped a bunch of random .txt files and all. Alternatively, go to KGS and don't be scared to play against other people.
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Jul 4, 2011 19:49
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Yes, do it ASAP while ITGO (KGS room) still has lots of other newbies for you to play. EDIT: oiseaux morts 1994 posted:Real poo poo: Playing with the outside world and your fellow goons in ITGO Xom fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Jul 6, 2011 |
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Jul 4, 2011 20:04
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Under 15 posted:Unless you are like six years old, you won't be making SDK in one month, no matter who you are. I guess if you want a direct comparison, I'd say it would take a similar amount of effort to get from 30k to 10k in go as it would to get from "this is jimmy" to Masters in SC2. Maybe Stik can give you a better SC2 analogy because I ditched SC2 for go a little too fast, his Gaming Resume is a bit more burnished than mine Sounds about right. I'd actually say that maybe 10k is a little bit easier than master just because the idea of having to train APM/mechanics is so alien to people that SC2 ends up being crazy hard for some people to understand. Shodan is definitely way harder than masters.
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Jul 7, 2011 22:34
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At the risk of it being a really dumb question: has anyone else had trouble logging into the KGS server via the Java applet? I did as it instructed, entered just a username and hit "Guest" and though the button clicked nothing happens. No new tab opens, page doesn't change etc. Same thing if I try making up a password. Is there some issue with using a Mac, or Mozilla?
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Jul 11, 2011 02:37
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Doesn't work with Firefox or Chrome for me on OSX. Worked via Safari, and I just got the standalone client working tonight which I prefer.
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Jul 11, 2011 04:09
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I've been playing for a few weeks now, thanks to this thread. Getting my rear end kicked! I've found the linked online instructions very helpful and I downloaded a bunch of problems to my iphone, which are fun to solve. I feel like I have a pretty good handle on playing once there are stones on the board but the thing none of the resources deal with in any real depth is opening moves and the strategy for the first part of the game. I feel like I understand the basic ideas of claiming territory early on, but as an example, this is a problem that left me confused: Black D17 White P4 Black has the choice to place at P17 or Q16 This is the kind of thing that makes my feel crazy. How can you possibly predict if the third move is going to affect the rest of the game in any meaningful way? Why not P16? Why not D4? So while I would love some insight into the posted problem, what I'm really looking for is discussion or theory surrounding how to play the first part of the game. Thanks!
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Jul 12, 2011 18:27
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The opening is the hardest part to grasp, especially early on, so don't feel bad if you don't understand why certain moves are considered better than others. While I'm not that great on the opening either, I can at least try to explain the reasoning behind the moves a little bit. In general, moves on the third line (P17 in your example) take territory directly. These moves have a very high rate of conversion to solid points later in the game. Moves on the fourth line (Q16) are what are called "influence" moves. Even just one line of difference creates a huge jump in how definite it is that you'll own the territory below that stone. Fourth line moves are much better for creating a sphere of influence and using it to extend towards the center of the board. P16 can be a tricky this early since it's not really claiming any solid territory. With P16 you're on the fourth line from the top (meaning influence, not territory) and the fifth line from the right side, creating a rather weak claim on this corner. White could easily break into this corner and likely have a positive outcome. Similarly, you could break into White's corner just as easily, as White has played the same move at P4. D4 isn't a bad move at all, as it's basically the same as Q16 in a different corner. White's stone is closer to this corner than the other, however, which is a good thing to take into consideration. Attacking from the top here would definitely be easier than attacking from the left, so you may want to set up your framework to support that strategy. If you're looking for a book, Opening Theory Made Easy is highly reccomended. However, since you said you've only been playing for a few weeks, I'd probably hold off on this for now. Focus on getting more games under your belt and read some articles on Sensei's Library and that should be more than enough to keep you occupied for now. EDIT: This page in particular. What answer was the "correct" one? I'd guess Q16 but like I said I'm not that experienced and it's been a while since I've played. Plastic Snake fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jul 12, 2011 |
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Jul 12, 2011 18:52
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ACTIVATEtheSQUARE posted:I've been playing for a few weeks now, thanks to this thread. Getting my rear end kicked! I've found the linked online instructions very helpful and I downloaded a bunch of problems to my iphone, which are fun to solve. I feel like I have a pretty good handle on playing once there are stones on the board but the thing none of the resources deal with in any real depth is opening moves and the strategy for the first part of the game. I'd recommend you try to find a copy of Hideo Otake's Opening Theory Made Easy, which pushed me from 10k to 8k nearly overnight. As far as your posted problem, I suspect that Q16 is the correct move because it combines low and high stones across the top and it suggests sliding in under that high 5-4 stone (White P4) later. Playing P17 seems to set up a low and uninteresting stance across the top. D4 does seem nice, but it doesn't deny White the ability to play at Q16. So as I see it, the line goes B.D17 W.P4 B.Q16 W.D4 B can then play an enclosure with C or D15 or approach white with R4. Some of this opening stuff is pretty small and mostly involves ephemeral aji kind of things - so long as you have the basic ideas of building and reducing moyos, I think these things will take something of a backseat to effective fighting.
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Jul 12, 2011 19:01
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For a beginner, I'd suggest you learn a few basic joseki, and get an idea of how they shape the board later. Mix it up between playing in joseki and playing just wherever you feel like it - chances are the difference isn't enough to screw you too badly  . In general a decent early move is on the third or fourth line with room to develop along a side in some direction, or preventing an opponent from doing the same. Don't sweat the details yet, just see how it affects the game.
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Jul 12, 2011 19:01
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Wow, thanks guys. those were really helpful answers. I'm definitely going to look into that link and book, sounds like it covers exactly what I was curious about, but I'll hold off on the book until I can play a little better. Not sure what the learning curve for this game is supposed to be but I still find myself learning new things every time I play. It's really quite exhilarating when you read about something and then encounter it in a game and realize you know how to deal with the situation. Thanks!
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Jul 12, 2011 19:55
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plotskee posted:Doesn't work with Firefox or Chrome for me on OSX. Worked via Safari, and I just got the standalone client working tonight which I prefer. Great! I got it running smooth on Safari. I was getting frustrated trying to get it to run right on Mozilla, I about gave up on the whole thing. But I joined the ITGO room, beat one noob and lost to two, so now I'm [14k?] for some reason, so that's something to work with at least. I wasn't getting any action in the Beginner's room having a [?] rating; I guess nobody wants to play scrubs?
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Jul 13, 2011 03:28
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Great! I got it running smooth on Safari. I was getting frustrated trying to get it to run right on Mozilla, I about gave up on the whole thing. But I joined the ITGO room, beat one noob and lost to two, so now I'm [14k?] for some reason, so that's something to work with at least. I wasn't getting any action in the Beginner's room having a [?] rating; I guess nobody wants to play scrubs? It's best to use automatch, I think - you can specify how large a difference in rank you'll allow, and it pretty quickly pairs you with someone about your strength. It also leads to a more accurate rank for you. vvv: Some automatch users will allow matches with a ? rank - you'll probably face an uneven matchup or two, but that way it will rather quickly figure out your "true" rank and then that ? is gone. You can always resign if you're getting crushed... Hipster Scumbag fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Jul 13, 2011 |
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Jul 13, 2011 03:32
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Hipster Scumbag posted:It's best to use automatch, I think - you can specify how large a difference in rank you'll allow, and it pretty quickly pairs you with someone about your strength. It also leads to a more accurate rank for you. Automatch probably won't help if your rank is [?].
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Jul 13, 2011 03:36
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helopticor posted:Automatch probably won't help if your rank is [?]. You get to set your estimated rank in automatch prefs if you have a [?] though, which will give you a provisional rank to start with. ~25k has been pretty good guess for most beginners coming in I think.
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Jul 13, 2011 04:54
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:At the risk of it being a really dumb question: has anyone else had trouble logging into the KGS server via the Java applet? I did as it instructed, entered just a username and hit "Guest" and though the button clicked nothing happens. No new tab opens, page doesn't change etc. Same thing if I try making up a password. I posted about this in the other thread, but with the latest Firefox version (5.0.1) it's fine again.
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Jul 13, 2011 07:43
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If you want to get a quick rank on KGS, I would suggest looking in the Computer GO room in the Social category. IdiotBot is usually always available, it plays randomly (while following rules) and is ranked 30k. After beating IdiotBot I had a 29k? rating.
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Jul 14, 2011 16:23
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Nice, took a pretty long break and then played some games on KGS. Seems like I just leveled up from 4k to 3k. Just a few stones left to Shodan 
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Jul 18, 2011 20:51
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Sorry if this is a derail, but I wanted to mention that I have a shogi thread. Japanese games stick together etc. I made the mistake (?) of putting it in the board games forum instead of A/T, so nobody sees it.  http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3425467
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Jul 22, 2011 23:48
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tarepanda posted:Sorry if this is a derail, but I wanted to mention that I have a shogi thread. Japanese games stick together etc. I made the mistake (?) of putting it in the board games forum instead of A/T, so nobody sees it. Your mistake is twofold because now lovely is going to post in your thread
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Jul 23, 2011 07:28
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The more the merrier!
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Jul 23, 2011 07:31
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Ho-ly poo poo Go sets are expensive in the UK. £40 just for a poo poo 19x19 board. Any good guides on making your own?
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Jul 25, 2011 15:31
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Does anyone know about places to play Go in New York? I'll be spending a week there starting next Friday, and it'd be nice to play a game or two while I'm there.
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Jul 26, 2011 11:40
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The New York Go Center is defunct but their website still has the best list of places.
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Jul 27, 2011 02:34
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Go looks neat, although it's of course seeming like a very dense subject to step into. I've played a couple of games on KGS tonight just putzing around, I'll probably try to get into the Goon room tomorrow sometime. What I was going to ask was if anyone had some nice problems or things to read or I don't know, something to make it seem less like I'm just placing stones around randomly for almost the entire game? Sounds like a dumb question, but this game seems really cool and it would be neat if I had some nice fundamentals or principles to work off of.
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Jul 29, 2011 05:04
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Has anybody with an iPad tried out SmartGo Kifu? It looks pretty cool, but I don't really want to spend $20 on an app that's not worth it.
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Jul 29, 2011 06:14
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Monitor posted:Go looks neat, although it's of course seeming like a very dense subject to step into. I've played a couple of games on KGS tonight just putzing around, I'll probably try to get into the Goon room tomorrow sometime. What I was going to ask was if anyone had some nice problems or things to read or I don't know, something to make it seem less like I'm just placing stones around randomly for almost the entire game? Sounds like a dumb question, but this game seems really cool and it would be neat if I had some nice fundamentals or principles to work off of. http://senseis.xmp.net/ on the front page here there's a "New To Go" section with great lists of links that will help you out.
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Jul 29, 2011 16:47
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Also this site is great for the basics, though it won't help you with the main problem you're worried about (big board, too many choices, head exploding). http://playgo.to/iwtg/en/
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Jul 29, 2011 23:59
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So, what has helped single digit kyu players or above reach the SDK level? Right now after about 5 days of playing I'm 16k on KGS, and I do tsumego daily along with getting my games reviewed. I also have Kageyama's book coming in the mail. I'm interested to know other people's personal experiences though.
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Aug 2, 2011 10:24
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HineyBorelTheorem posted:So, what has helped single digit kyu players or above reach the SDK level? Right now after about 5 days of playing I'm 16k on KGS, and I do tsumego daily along with getting my games reviewed. I also have Kageyama's book coming in the mail. Some things: 1) Experiment with playing really agressively for a while. See how you get on. If you lose a lot of games, reign in it in and play more defensively until you reach a happy medium. The reverse can also be done; play defensively and then get more agressive if you're falling behind on points each game. This will help to expand your vocabulary. 2) Learn the most popular josekis. At DDK level, you're usually guaranteed that a lot of your opponents won't know even some of the basic ones and this will guarantee you a lead. 3) Again, experiment with throwing stones about and cutting your opponent. Sacrifice can bring much reward. 4) Don't panic when you get invaded. Let your opponent stick a stone in there, and surround him gently. Even if he/she lives, they have probably allowed you to build up territory on both sides of their group to your advantage. A 3-3 invasion in the opening is a bad move for the opponent to make. Don't fret Most importantly above all these things: Don't lose concentration! Don't go into autopilot. Even now I still lose games by getting distracted by the pace of my opponent, or just not thinking.
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Aug 2, 2011 13:44
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oiseaux morts 1994 posted:Some things: This is interesting. What do you mean by playing aggressively? Would that mean trying to invade every game? Also, which josekis would you recommend? The common objection I hear to learning josekis is that if the opponent goes "off book", then a DDK is lost and cannot properly exploit the situation. How can I remedy that?
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Aug 2, 2011 15:37
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HineyBorelTheorem posted:Also, which josekis would you recommend? The common objection I hear to learning josekis is that if the opponent goes "off book", then a DDK is lost and cannot properly exploit the situation. How can I remedy that? Play the absolute simplest poo poo you can. Learning lots of joseki is pretty much the biggest waste of time for anyone, no matter what their level - it's like buying a ten-thousand piece tool set and finding that a quarter of the tools are missing, another quarter are broken and hosed up, you have no idea what the third quarter do, and you really only use about ten or twenty to any effect. Many books deal with joseki because it is easy to write about and it's easy to think, "Hey if I learn a bunch of joseki I will hustle them in every corner and win easily." The truth is that there are too many shades of gray for someone below about 6d to ever profit from a general study of joseki. The best you can do, in my opinion, is strive to play the same poo poo every time to the best of your abilities, and if something happens that you are unfamiliar with, look that specific thing up, ask for help, and figure out the best way to deal with it. If you can control the opening of the game like this for at least the first 20-30 moves, you will have a big advantage purely in knowing what kinds of things to expect in the middle game.
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Aug 2, 2011 17:32
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HineyBorelTheorem posted:Also, which josekis would you recommend? The common objection I hear to learning josekis is that if the opponent goes "off book", then a DDK is lost and cannot properly exploit the situation. How can I remedy that? It's hard to recommend josekis just offhand because they are so situational. Getting an even result locally doesn't help if you just handed your opponent a really good global result and put yourself behind. The best thing to do is lots of reading problems and full board/fuseki problems and stuff, you'll be better off if you can recognize how you want to change the board on a larger scale and can read yourself to those results.
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Aug 2, 2011 22:19
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HineyBorelTheorem posted:The common objection I hear to learning josekis is that if the opponent goes "off book", then a DDK is lost and cannot properly exploit the situation. How can I remedy that? This is the problem I (14k) have, too. I look at the joseki diagram and think, If I play 1, why would my opponent play 2 unless he knows the joseki and wants to play it out? From this I deduce that there's no point in learning joseki just yet.
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Aug 2, 2011 22:49
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Under 15 posted:Play the absolute simplest poo poo you can. Learning lots of joseki is pretty much the biggest waste of time for anyone, no matter what their level - it's like buying a ten-thousand piece tool set and finding that a quarter of the tools are missing, another quarter are broken and hosed up, you have no idea what the third quarter do, and you really only use about ten or twenty to any effect. What would you recommend for improvement then? Anything besides my daily diet of playing, review, and tsumego?
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Aug 3, 2011 00:47
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HineyBorelTheorem posted:What would you recommend for improvement then? Anything besides my daily diet of playing, review, and tsumego? If you take it seriously, that's about the best you are ever going to get. Go is not very easy to improve at and there aren't many shortcuts besides doing lots and lots of tsumego. If you read Lessons in the Fundamentals, though, the author treats this subject a bit and reminds you that although it is a long and difficult road to get good at go, as an amateur you have the luxury of taking as long as you want. Somebody who wants to do it for a living, on the other hand, does not.
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Aug 3, 2011 01:59
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HineyBorelTheorem posted:What would you recommend for improvement then? Anything besides my daily diet of playing, review, and tsumego? The big thing for the board games club at my old school was to have ranked people come in and beat their asses every once in a while, then go over the games critically. That's not a luxury you can always have though.
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Aug 3, 2011 02:01
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