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The best you can do in a diesel<>gasoline comparison is to take the economy of the diesel car and a close gasoline engine in the same car, then plug in the price of each fuel. Diesel 20% more efficient and fuel is only 8% more expensive? Winner. In another example, if you look at E85, it needs to cost at least 24% less than 87 octane, or you're paying more. That NEVER happens anymore.
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Jul 26, 2011 01:44
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The price of each fuel is going to be largely down to how each one is taxed. Anyway with modern efficient small capacity turbo petrols becoming more common I don't see the point of diesel in small economy cars. The petrols are still incredibly cheap on fuel an are so much nicer to drive especially with a conventional manual (with a DSG diesels start to make more sense). Bigger vehicles are where diesel make perfect sense, you'd be nuts to buy a petrol Landcruiser or X5
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Jul 26, 2011 02:56
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dissss posted:
 european spotted Because we don't get diesels in anything in the US  We'd rather get 13mpg from a gas v8 in the same vehicle, apparently.
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Jul 26, 2011 04:31
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lazer_chicken posted:
Not even close, diesels aren't just a European phenomenon remember (although Japan does seem to have given up on them for their home market) I thought you could get a diesel Touareg in North America?
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Jul 26, 2011 04:46
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lazer_chicken posted:
Soon you're getting an Astra diesel  .
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Jul 26, 2011 04:53
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http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=245785178772689 If 30,000 people sign up, everyone gets a free (well, $6 shipped if you don't pick it up) gay bubble shift knob! 
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Jul 26, 2011 04:57
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Faerunner posted:Uh, what part of Pittsburgh are you in? Almost every station I pass except some of the smaller indies has diesel. Northern suburbs. I would have to run out to route 8 or run up to cranberry. Not huge distances to be sure, but I don't exactly make a habit of running out there either. Pretty much the entire McKnight corridor is diesel free as far as I can tell.
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Jul 26, 2011 06:18
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That's so weird to me. I live in a much smaller city and every station I've ever stopped at has diesel.
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Jul 26, 2011 06:34
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Cream_Filling posted:I bet there's still a market out there for a minivan the size of the original Caravan. See also the strong sales of the Scion xB (before they made it bigger, too). pre: Mazda5 1995 Trans Sport 1995 Caravan
Wheelbase: 108.3 109.8 112.3
Length: 180.5 192.2 178.1
Width: 68.9 74.6 72.0
Height: 63.6 65.7 66.0
Weight: 3457 (auto) 3523 (auto) 3305 (auto)
Left Ventricle fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Jul 26, 2011 |
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Jul 26, 2011 06:35
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lazer_chicken posted:
I drive a diesel and get 13mpg. Best of both worlds!
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Jul 26, 2011 06:39
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Powershift posted:I drive a diesel and get 13mpg. Best of both worlds! Was about to post this. You can already get a diesel, with a 6 speed manual even, in the US for less than what a diesel Golf costs in Europe.   It's 6.7l and puts out 800ftlbs of torque. 
Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Jul 26, 2011 |
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Jul 26, 2011 06:49
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dissss posted:The price of each fuel is going to be largely down to how each one is taxed. They also make sense on small cars, I've driven a modern 1.6l petrol that struggled with any performance with a couple of fat people on the back seats (downshifting on gentle uphill slopes, 0-60 in 30 seconds). My current 1.6l diesel hatchback performs exactly the same with the trunk filled with bags of concrete (barring some disturbing wallowing on corners) as it does empty. And also I only have to fill the tank every 750 miles. With a DSG and twin turbos you don't notice the fact that the performance is only over a narrow range of RPMs as much either, there is no startup wait, there are fewer/equivalent emissions compared to a petrol engine, certainly no smoke, the engine sound can't even be heard in the cabin unless the windows are down and the radio off.
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Jul 26, 2011 09:30
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cynic posted:I've driven a modern 1.6l petrol that struggled with any performance with a couple of fat people on the back seats (downshifting on gentle uphill slopes, 0-60 in 30 seconds). Go and compare a 1.4 TSI Golf to the 1.6 TDI. You have to be carrying a hell of a lot of weight before performance becomes equivalent.
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Jul 26, 2011 09:35
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dissss posted:Go and compare a 1.4 TSI Golf to the 1.6 TDI. You have to be carrying a hell of a lot of weight before performance becomes equivalent. Yeah, it wasn't really a great comparison since I was comparing the shockingly bad Suzuki M16A engine I had a few years back to the tuned Ford DLD-416 I currently have. In the intervening times I've also driven a bunch of underpowered (sub 100 hp) petrol cars and decently powered VW 2.0 TDI's (130-200hp), so I'm a touch biased.
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Jul 26, 2011 10:32
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cynic posted:Yeah, it wasn't really a great comparison since I was comparing the shockingly bad Suzuki M16A engine I had a few years back to the tuned Ford DLD-416 I currently have. In the intervening times I've also driven a bunch of underpowered (sub 100 hp) petrol cars and decently powered VW 2.0 TDI's (130-200hp), so I'm a touch biased. A little diesel from that era (especially a Japanese one) wouldn't have done any better. As for more modern cars I got stuck with a rental Golf BlueMotion in the UK and it was horrible - I'm sure a TDI 140 would have been fine but the 105HP model is horrible.
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Jul 26, 2011 10:40
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dissss posted:Not even close, diesels aren't just a European phenomenon remember (although Japan does seem to have given up on them for their home market) Yeah we do have the diesel touareg, but it starts at 47k. And it's pretty much the only thing available with a diesel other than VW's own golf and jetta. Then again, I live in the south and I see plenty of people daily driving monstrous diesel pickup trucks. How else are they gonna tow their jet skis or pick up lumber at home depot?
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Jul 26, 2011 12:45
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destructo posted:http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=245785178772689 I went to check this out but there's seriously not one color that does not make it look like a giant dildo.
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Jul 26, 2011 14:18
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travisray2004 posted:I went to check this out but there's seriously not one color that does not make it look like a giant dildo. That would be why they are called dildo shifters  (I'm getting a pink on)
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Jul 26, 2011 14:25
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A5H posted:That would be why they are called dildo shifters Oh, well in that case I'm getting a green one.
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Jul 26, 2011 14:48
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I was born a poor black Porsche 911 turbo in Zuffenhausen. In my early childhood I dreamed of taking mid-level executives at financial companies to and from important flights and maybe even taking a dotcom millionaire to his first HPDE since getting rid of his musty old Accord. I had also built a relationship with Maxine, a Turbo Beetle that I saw frequently, and we were in love. Then he came. The man stepped onto the production floor, gaunt, with a shock of white hair and hooded eyes that lured your gaze but returned nothing for your trouble. He tapped a bony finger on my front flank, moderately disturbing the perfect 0.0076mm wide sixteenth layer of clearcoat applied meticulously to me by Porsche AG engineers. "This one," he said. "This one will do." I was taken on the back of a flatbed truck towards Pfaffenhausen. I could see the sky saturated with the hateful avian animals that would threaten my clearcoat and that of my friends further. "Schnell," I plead quietly to the work truck carrying me towards my destination, but he was a Scania and only understood Swedish. They cut into my body with their saws and their grabby hands. I blacked out, awaking periodically throughout the operation. "Ja," the man in white hair said to me, "you will be a bad motherfucker." When I awoke, I felt different. Wider. Angrier. They had cut me everywhere, changing my bones to an aluminum composite space frame and tweaked my engine, which now rode in my middle, to produce a bottomless well of torque. I was now as far beyond the middle manager as this man was beyond sanity. For days after that, I lapped the Nurburgring endlessly. I remember a Renault Clio that saw me, spun out in fear and then hid in the Armco, gibbering and tearing its own face off to escape my sputtering noises of rage. Two angry turbocharged Subarus approached me, their boxer engines clattering like mine, but their workaday Japanese engineering made them understeer and flap around as my perfect shell stole the wind and escaped. A motorcyclist wet himself as I bore down on him in the carousel with barely restrained glee. I was becoming a monster. I fear I may never see Maxine again, but some part of me is afraid of what she will say once she sees me. I am the RUF CTR3.
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Jul 26, 2011 15:14
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Cream_Filling posted:See also the strong sales of the Scion xB (before they made it bigger, too). The Scion xB thing still makes me laugh my rear end off at Toyota. I remember reading when they first brought over the xA and xB they thought the hatchback style xA would sell more than the xB. They were so off from their predicted sales targets that in the first year of selling the xB sold at almost 2 to 1 to the xA. Further more instead of attracting an audience of 20 something first time car buyers Scion were getting people in their 40's or 50's buying the thing so they didn't hit their target market either. Thing was the xB was really just a Toyota bB (or Bb I don't loving know) brought over straight from Japan. When the US Scion design team redid the xB according to Scion's 3 or 4 year model refresh the xB got fat and ugly and now no one wants them any more and the used ones from 04 to 06 still sell for $10k for a car that was only $17k when it was new. They haven't dropped in value like a person would expect because the new ones suck so bad. Scion should have kept selling the first gen xB for twice as long as they did.
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Jul 26, 2011 15:22
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Seat Safety Switch posted:I am the RUF CTR3. Awesome intro! That car is indeed a hideous monstrosity. Reminds me of Hennessey Venom GT. Stretching it out is probably the worst thing you can do for the 911's aesthetics. But I wouldn't argue with 700lb ft of torque.
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Jul 26, 2011 15:46
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Coredump posted:The Scion xB thing still makes me laugh my rear end off at Toyota. I remember reading when they first brought over the xA and xB they thought the hatchback style xA would sell more than the xB. They were so off from their predicted sales targets that in the first year of selling the xB sold at almost 2 to 1 to the xA. Further more instead of attracting an audience of 20 something first time car buyers Scion were getting people in their 40's or 50's buying the thing so they didn't hit their target market either. This is so true, my parents wanted a Scion xB and were really sad when I told them they discontinued the car.
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Jul 26, 2011 15:47
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It looks like all they did was move from a Yaris-derived platform to a Corolla-derived platform. It made business sense, kinda, but the market completely fell out on the Vibe/Matrix around the refresh anyway.
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Jul 26, 2011 15:55
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A5H posted:That would be why they are called dildo shifters Rainbow one here.
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Jul 26, 2011 15:59
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Coredump posted:The Scion xB thing still makes me laugh my rear end off at Toyota. I remember reading when they first brought over the xA and xB they thought the hatchback style xA would sell more than the xB. They were so off from their predicted sales targets that in the first year of selling the xB sold at almost 2 to 1 to the xA. Further more instead of attracting an audience of 20 something first time car buyers Scion were getting people in their 40's or 50's buying the thing so they didn't hit their target market either. I had a 2009 xB (ex-wife took it) that was a really, really great car. It had amazing amounts of room, plenty of power for it's class, was comfortable, etc. I don't understand why people don't like them.
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Jul 26, 2011 17:29
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Mr. Wiggles posted:I had a 2009 xB (ex-wife took it) that was a really, really great car. It had amazing amounts of room, plenty of power for it's class, was comfortable, etc. I don't understand why people don't like them. I think people do like them, they just like the Kia Soul better. It's cheaper and has more bold styling. Targeting young people is a lost cause anyway, no one under 30 has any money or a job, people who have money and jobs want Camaros. http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/07/by-zeus-now-scion-pursues-thirty-somethings.html quote:By Zeus! Now, Scion Pursues Thirty-Somethings
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Jul 26, 2011 17:44
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Mr. Wiggles posted:I had a 2009 xB (ex-wife took it) that was a really, really great car. It had amazing amounts of room, plenty of power for it's class, was comfortable, etc. I don't understand why people don't like them. It took a car that was unique, tiny yet had a lot of space, and had amazing gas mileage, and turned into a car that was none of those. It now looks another compact, and the gas mileage is pretty mediocre for a subcompact.
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Jul 26, 2011 22:09
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Apparently the opel astra "coupe"(as a buick verano coupe) and Mercedes A-class coupe will both be making their way over here.   Hot hatches coming in by way of luxury brands. Can't see them doing too well. Hopefully companies don't assume that because nobody buys $30,000 hot hatches, nobody wants hot hatches at all. It's a shame ford doesn't try to put the fiesta coupe or Ka up against the fiat 500 here. The base fiat 500 is $15,500, whereas the fiesta starts at 13,200 but is sedan/5-door only.
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Jul 26, 2011 22:40
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Internet Meme posted:It took a car that was unique, tiny yet had a lot of space, and had amazing gas mileage, and turned into a car that was none of those. It now looks another compact, and the gas mileage is pretty mediocre for a subcompact. You are wrong on every point. It's still very unique, doesn't look like anything else, and has great mileage for what it is - a mini-minivan. It's not even a subcompact, for goodness sake - they stopped importing the bB (on the Yaris/Echo platform) as the xB and started importing the Corolla Rumion (a Corolla box with a Camry motor) as an xB instead.
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Jul 26, 2011 22:43
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Ah yes, I eagerly await the day my new WRX comes with 20" Advan RS straight from the showroom floor.Taaaaaaarb! posted:About that Subaru WRX/Impreza split and the resultant coupe, here's one "artist's" impression:
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Jul 26, 2011 22:51
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Mr. Wiggles posted:It's not even a subcompact, for goodness sake - they stopped importing the bB (on the Yaris/Echo platform) as the xB and started importing the Corolla Rumion (a Corolla box with a Camry motor) as an xB instead. That's exactly my point. Some of the best things about the original are exactly what they changed. The xB went from being a roomy subcompact to being a mini mini-van, just as you said. The appeal for many was the fact that it was a subcompact with ridiculous amounts of space. Now it's a glorified PT Cruzer/HHR. The car gets 24/28 mpg EPA which is mediocre at best. The Kia Soul, Nissan Cube, Ford Focus, tC, hell, even a Jetta wagon gets better gas mileage. I'm glad you're happy with your car, but the second gen is the most stereotypically americanized car I've ever seen. AfricanBootyShine fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Jul 27, 2011 |
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Jul 26, 2011 22:59
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Speaking of hot hatches, looks like Fiat will be debuting the 500 Abarth stateside at the LA Auto Show. quote:Autoblog posted: If this really happens, it's more tempting to look at a 500 for my next car.
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Jul 26, 2011 23:01
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Mr. Wiggles posted:It's still very unique, doesn't look like anything else, and has great mileage for what it is - a mini-minivan. It's not even a subcompact, for goodness sake - they stopped importing the bB (on the Yaris/Echo platform) as the xB and started importing the Corolla Rumion (a Corolla box with a Camry motor) as an xB instead. Actually the Scion version came first the Japanese market Toyota version came later (and had much smaller engines) They made another generation of the smaller bB for Japan
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Jul 27, 2011 01:48
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Solar Coaster posted:Speaking of hot hatches, looks like Fiat will be debuting the 500 Abarth stateside at the LA Auto Show. Well it's definitely happening we just don't know when it will go on sale, rumor is Q1 2012
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Jul 27, 2011 01:58
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Internet Meme posted:That's exactly my point. Some of the best things about the original are exactly what they changed. The xB went from being a roomy subcompact to being a mini mini-van, just as you said. The appeal for many was the fact that it was a subcompact with ridiculous amounts of space. Now it's a glorified PT Cruzer/HHR. That's a lot of glory. quote:The car gets 24/28 mpg EPA which is mediocre at best. The Kia Soul, Nissan Cube, Ford Focus, tC, hell, even a Jetta wagon gets better gas mileage. When I had it, I regularly got 31-32 mixed mileage. That's fine for something that I could completely fill with amplifiers and drums and still move at a brisk pace.
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Jul 27, 2011 02:09
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The original xB was extremely useful but nothing could make up for the fact that it was/is ugly as sin. Maximum utility design = 
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Jul 27, 2011 03:08
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Mr. Wiggles posted:When I had it, I regularly got 31-32 mixed mileage. That's fine for something that I could completely fill with amplifiers and drums and still move at a brisk pace. I usually get 28-30 out of my Vibe with the same setup. The 2.4 is a fun little engine 
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Jul 27, 2011 03:37
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Matlock posted:I usually get 28-30 out of my Vibe with the same setup. The 2.4 is a fun little engine That's... not terribly impressive, in my opinion. I get around 26 mpg in my Mustang, again in mixed usage, driving with no concern for fuel economy. If I were driving a lighter car with a smaller engine, I would certainly want to see a larger improvement than that.
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Jul 27, 2011 04:37
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Throatwarbler posted:I think people do like them, they just like the Kia Soul better. It's cheaper and has more bold styling. Targeting young people is a lost cause anyway, no one under 30 has any money or a job, people who have money and jobs want Camaros. Yeah this, sort of. Scions were always the kind of car you ended up with because you were 17, knew nothing about cars and dad would only pay for something cheap and Japanese. That market is small and dad will probably just buy a Versa instead. If you have money in that age group you'll probably end with something like an Audi A4 or BMW 3-series. I looked at the Scion tC when I was 20 but I ultimately went with a used luxury car (08' C300) because a Mercedes is much more impressive. NOTinuyasha fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Jul 27, 2011 |
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Jul 27, 2011 04:58
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