Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

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soscannonballs: Dec 6, 2007

Funkmaster General posted:

I decided to replay Heretic, and... did I accidentally grab a weird custom WAD or was this game insanely hard? Compared to DOOM there's like 200x the number of enemies. Before I'd even grabbed the ethereal crossbow I was opening doors and finding 5 or 6 golems behind them.

e: Also how do I set up Chocolate Doom Raven Branch to use WASD instead of the arrow keys, and strafe instead of turning?

I recently started playing Heretic again too, and there are a lot more enemies than in Doom, and I believe their projectiles are faster on higher difficulties, which makes the Weredragons really dangerous.

# ? Jul 26, 2011 20:10

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# ? May 15, 2024 20:31

Kazvall: Mar 20, 2009

I noticed this, too, but I thought you could kick them in the head for death!

E: Brutal doom

# ? Jul 26, 2011 20:31

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

ToxicFrog posted:

Is it just me or is there a big leap in difficulty between HMP and UV? I blasted through all of Doom on HMP without much trouble*, but on UV I die four or five times on E1M1.

* Except Thy Flesh Consumed

E1M1 is actually one of the trickier levels on UV because they didn't quite get that hitscan enemies were in fact quite deadly. Shotgunners can do a ton of damage and E1M1 UV has a lot of them.

# ? Jul 26, 2011 20:35

Code Jockey: Jan 24, 2006; 69420 basic bytes free

Yeah, early on before I'm well equipped [and later on, in tight spaces] shotgunners are really nasty.

# ? Jul 26, 2011 20:41

Space Faggot: Jun 11, 2009

JerryLee posted:

On that note, the earlier discussion about KDiZD made me load up and go through it again these past few days. Verdict: still owns, gently caress the haters

I just played through again last week and couldn't even finish it. z1m3 is probably the single worst Doom map I have ever played. I don't understand how anybody could call it "good" or "worth playing".

# ? Jul 26, 2011 20:56

closeted republican: Sep 9, 2005

For E1M1 UV, I usually snipe the shotgunners near the armor with the pistol, then grab their shotguns and the armor and I'm good to go, as far as equipment goes. With the other shotgunners, you just need to keep your distance and their shotguns won't be as harmful as a point-blank shot.

# ? Jul 26, 2011 20:59

Chinook: Apr 11, 2006; SHODAI

Roobanguy posted:

Turns out in Brutal doom kicking a zombie marine doesn't out right kill them! I learned this after kicking a shotgunner to focus on a cacodemon just for him to stand back up and shoot and kill me from behind!

Have you ever tried kicking the space marines who are tied up to poles? For all I know this isn't a Brutal Doom thing, but I had never tried it before and was pleasantly surprised by the results.

# ? Jul 26, 2011 21:12

Dominic White: Nov 1, 2005

Chinook posted:

Have you ever tried kicking the space marines who are tied up to poles? For all I know this isn't a Brutal Doom thing, but I had never tried it before and was pleasantly surprised by the results.

Those guys replace the (almost completely useless) invisibility powerup in Brutal Doom, in an attempt to put something cool and useful in their place.

# ? Jul 26, 2011 21:15

Guillermus: Dec 28, 2009

Dominic White posted:

Those guys replace the (almost completely useless) invisibility powerup in Brutal Doom, in an attempt to put something cool and useful in their place.

If you're lucky and free up one with a chaingun or rocket launcher, the fucker will run at the speed of light killing any medium-small sized enemy in no time, that and enabling infighting makes up for some chaotic moments in brutal doom.

# ? Jul 26, 2011 21:20

Roobanguy: May 31, 2011

Chinook posted:

Have you ever tried kicking the space marines who are tied up to poles? For all I know this isn't a Brutal Doom thing, but I had never tried it before and was pleasantly surprised by the results.

You can kick them? I was sorta annoyed that I had to switch to my fists to do their thing.

# ? Jul 26, 2011 21:31

JerryLee: Feb 4, 2005; THE RESERVED LIST! THE RESERVED LIST! I CANNOT SHUT UP ABOUT THE RESERVED LIST!

Space human being posted:

I just played through again last week and couldn't even finish it. z1m3 is probably the single worst Doom map I have ever played. I don't understand how anybody could call it "good" or "worth playing".

I was actually surprised by how much better Z1M3 was than I remembered it. Even in the basement, if you pay attention to the automap it usually doesn't take that long to figure out where you have to go. The only real problem I had was remembering where the red key was because I didn't see the red arrow on the map due to the fake downstairs area being off the map at first.

I won't say that every mapping decision made in KDiZD is great, for example the version of the classic circular slime causeway area in that same map is horrifically over-busy, however if you unironically think KDiZD is worse visually or even gameplay-wise than like 2/3 of Doom II, I really don't know what to say.

# ? Jul 26, 2011 21:42

Chinook: Apr 11, 2006; SHODAI

Roobanguy posted:

You can kick them? I was sorta annoyed that I had to switch to my fists to do their thing.

I was surprised when I found out that 'their thing' wasn't just 'die after I shoot them a lot to release them from their misery'.

# ? Jul 26, 2011 21:47

Space Faggot: Jun 11, 2009

KDiZD looks really nice and z1m2 was acually pretty good, I'll give it that. It's just that everything about it is completely unnecessary and doesn't add anything to the game. Having 6 keycards is just stupid and encourages pointless backtracking and dragging things out until long after the level wears out its welcome. The palette swapped enemies don't really add anything, they're just as easy to fight but just soak up more damage to waste my time. The new enemies look really out of place and, again, don't really add much to the gameplay. Too much time is spent running around rooms full of things you killed 20 minutes ago trying to find what the switches you hit 5 minutes ago did.

Doom is fun because of the fast-paced action and KDiZD has really terrible placing with way too much downtime for it to be any fun. I just don't get what people see in it.

# ? Jul 26, 2011 21:56

Mak0rz: Aug 2, 2008; 😎🐗🚬

JerryLee posted:

unironically

Stop saying this. All of you. The word you're looking for is "sincerely." Say it with me now: "sincerely"

However, I do agree with this statement:

JerryLee posted:

if you think KDiZD is worse visually or even gameplay-wise than like 2/3 of Doom II, I really don't know what to say.

I've ranted about this in the previous thread, but holy poo poo Doom II does have horrible level design. It's bad. Just, really bad. Some stages are legitimately good, but for the most part playing through the game is a drat chore.

Fifteen years later we finally get our apology in the form of No Rest for the Living :hellyeah:

# ? Jul 26, 2011 22:08

OneEightHundred: Feb 28, 2008; Soon, we will be unstoppable!

No Quake 1 experience is complete without Nehahra.

It's like the perfect combination of pretty solid SP levels (17 of them) and cutscenes filled with ambition totally out of line with the ability to voice act or export models that do not jiggle.

And then if you haven't had enough of the latter, you can watch the 4-hour long machinima prequel.

http://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/nehahra.html

You can run it with Darkplaces by using the -nehahra command line switch.

# ? Jul 26, 2011 22:15

Roobanguy: May 31, 2011

OneEightHundred posted:

And then if you haven't had enough of the latter, you can watch the 4-hour long machinima prequel.

4 hours? Good lord.

# ? Jul 26, 2011 22:26

treat: Jul 24, 2008; by the sex ghost

JerryLee posted:

I was actually surprised by how much better Z1M3 was than I remembered it.

The blue keycard. Moments like those are what really made KDiZD fun. You know what to expect but you never quite know what you're expecting, in a way.

Roobanguy posted:

4 hours? Good lord.

I only ever played about 15 minutes of Nehahra, but I do remember having a smoke, making a trip to the store, cleaning the kitchen, eating lunch, taking the dog for a walk and having another smoke while I waited for the intro to end.

# ? Jul 26, 2011 23:09

OneEightHundred: Feb 28, 2008; Soon, we will be unstoppable!

They're moderately humorous, but it's basically a straight up revenge and "oops we let the bad poo poo through" plot so feel free to skip them.

I think "cutscene 0" at the prompt turns them off?

# ? Jul 27, 2011 00:26

treat: Jul 24, 2008; by the sex ghost

Yeah, cutscene 0. Honestly, I just wanted to see how long it was.

I was immediately turned off by the first level of Nehahra, too, but after reading that it gets better I'll give it another shot.

# ? Jul 27, 2011 00:32

BattleMaster: Aug 14, 2000

Space human being posted:

Having 6 keycards

Yeah I thought it was amusing that they tried something interesting in Z1M1 with having to find a bomb to blow up a wall. Then the later levels were like "welp here's 6 keycards"

# ? Jul 27, 2011 00:48

closeted republican: Sep 9, 2005

treat posted:

Yeah, cutscene 0. Honestly, I just wanted to see how long it was.

I was immediately turned off by the first level of Nehahra, too, but after reading that it gets better I'll give it another shot.

The first areas are a bit bleh because of the tweaks they did to the Grunt and Enforcer to make them harder to kill, but once you get to Episode 2, it goes from average to good techbase levels to AAA-quality medieval levels.

# ? Jul 27, 2011 00:54

JerryLee: Feb 4, 2005; THE RESERVED LIST! THE RESERVED LIST! I CANNOT SHUT UP ABOUT THE RESERVED LIST!

I actually enjoyed having 6 keycards because they helped me use the ZDoom automap to navigate to the next "waypoint" in the level, more so than an equally complex level that had only 3 key colors to work with and had to make the rest up with switches (or, more confusingly still, 3 keycards and 3 skull keys).

Where it didn't have color-coded doors on the automap, I thought KDiZD was pretty good about unobtrusively using the security monitor mechanic to keep things relatively navigable. Basically what it comes down to is I've played vanilla wads that were way, way worse than KDiZD (go gently caress yourself, Eternal Doom).

Anyway.

On a hopefully more universally agreeable note, I'm now playing the alpha of Doomworld's Doom The Way id Did It megawad and it's equally as awesome to me as KDiZD so far, albeit for different reasons. I recommend it to anyone who hasn't already seen it.

# ? Jul 27, 2011 01:29

closeted republican: Sep 9, 2005

JerryLee posted:

Basically what it comes down to is I've played vanilla wads that were way, way worse than KDiZD (go gently caress yourself, Eternal Doom).

Oh god, Eternal Doom. I have no idea how that one managed to get any sort of favorable reviews; its filled with bullshit backtracking and "what the gently caress did this switch" do moments. Its like everything bad about Doom map making in one package. I think I got to the second level before I said "this is poo poo" and deleted it.

# ? Jul 27, 2011 01:42

Lawman 0: Aug 17, 2010

JerryLee posted:

I actually enjoyed having 6 keycards because they helped me use the ZDoom automap to navigate to the next "waypoint" in the level, more so than an equally complex level that had only 3 key colors to work with and had to make the rest up with switches (or, more confusingly still, 3 keycards and 3 skull keys).

Where it didn't have color-coded doors on the automap, I thought KDiZD was pretty good about unobtrusively using the security monitor mechanic to keep things relatively navigable. Basically what it comes down to is I've played vanilla wads that were way, way worse than KDiZD (go gently caress yourself, Eternal Doom).

Anyway.

On a hopefully more universally agreeable note, I'm now playing the alpha of Doomworld's Doom The Way id Did It megawad and it's equally as awesome to me as KDiZD so far, albeit for different reasons. I recommend it to anyone who hasn't already seen it.

Isn't john romero actually working on a level for that wad or something?

# ? Jul 27, 2011 05:02

treat: Jul 24, 2008; by the sex ghost

Asking again: Is there a version of KDiZD that foregoes the intermission map? Maybe one where the intermission map actually works? I've spent 2 hours every other night this week beating a horribly convoluted KDiZD map only for the intermission map to kick me back into the classic version of the map I just beat, or fail to recognize that I just beat a map at all, leaving me stuck on the intermission map with no way of progressing.

The maps are frustrating enough themselves. I don't need the god drat intermission making it any harder to play.

# ? Jul 27, 2011 06:20

Meck Pomses: Jan 7, 2011; I QUESTIONED BUYING AN AVATAR WHEN I GET A FREE "STUPID NEWBIE" ONE WHEN REGISTERING SO SOMEONE GAVE ME FANART OF BIG BOSS DRESSED AS BAYONETTA DRAWN BY N ARTIST WHO TRIED TO MAKE A COLLABORATIVE BBW FIGHTING GAME FOR MY AVATAR OUT OF SPITE

Space human being posted:

Having 6 keycards is just stupid and encourages pointless backtracking and dragging things out until long after the level wears out its welcome. ...

Doom is fun because of the fast-paced action and KDiZD has really terrible placing with way too much downtime for it to be any fun.

Doom is fun not only because of the fast-paced action, but also because of the exploration aspect that comes along with cleverly designed non-linear layouts with key/switch objectives. I had no problem with manoevering the maps in KDiZD.

# ? Jul 27, 2011 08:36

Dominic White: Nov 1, 2005

treat posted:

Asking again: Is there a version of KDiZD that foregoes the intermission map?

Are you running the very latest GZDoom build? (Last updated July 15th) As others have said, that seems to fix it.

# ? Jul 27, 2011 08:39

Mantle: May 15, 2004

I also have no problems running kdizd with the latest stable Skulltag or zdoom. Have you tried using a fresh Doom install?

# ? Jul 27, 2011 08:46

treat: Jul 24, 2008; by the sex ghost

It seems DoomMusic2011 was causing it. Probably should have mentioned I was rolling with that. I guess it's a good excuse to go back to playing Ennio Morricone while I doom. :banjo:

# ? Jul 27, 2011 08:50

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

Some random news!

Some mysterious Russian dude has thrown together a version of GZDoom for OSX, if you perfer using fancy expensive silver-y computers. It's not official, but the dev seems to be constantly synching to the SVN updates.
eDuke32 finally has True Room Over Room support for 3D levels! Countdown until someone remakes (demakes?) Duke Nukem Forever in BUILD...

# ? Jul 27, 2011 12:28

DanTheFryingPan: Jan 28, 2006

Nehahra :siren:

I can't believe it's been 11 years. It's been mentioned a few times already, but those of you who haven't yet given this Quake mod a go, do so now. There's even more to play than the original two episodes. Nehahra is an amalgamation of some of the best custom textures available for Quake, a gathering of some of the best mappers of the late 90s, directed by a visionary project lead. Mindcrime did the voice work, sounds, models, skins and code almost all by himself. He needed others for the new engine and then for the maps. Nehahra might be the pinnacle of Quake mods. Hell, it might be the pinnacle of amateur mods.

Get the original package here:
http://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/nehahra.html

Tim Elek's third episode with a few extra levels:
http://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/elek_neh_episode4.html

Iain Bruce's excellent custom map:
http://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/invein.html

And a few tips to help you out. Nehahra is difficult. Excruciatingly difficult. It was made when most of the players had been playing Quake for years, and the original monsters would've been too easy to handle. To make it slightly easier, use

code:

nomonsters 1

This disables some of the new AI. Input this into the console, or better yet, put it in your autoexec.cfg.

To disable the cutscenes, use

code:

cutscene 0

Again, either into the console or into your autoexec.cfg. Using the config file means you don't have to toggle it every time you start the game.

And if you're inclined, here are the cheat codes. Input these into the console. Nehahra versions first, followed by original Quake versions, and explanations.

code:

MAX - GOD MODE (invulnerability)
MONSTER - NOTARGET (enemies will ignore you until damaged)
WRAITH - NOCLIP (fly through walls)
GIMME # - GIVE # (gives weapons or ammo, e.g. "gimme 4" gives you the nailgun, "gimme nails 100" gives you 100 nails)
SCRAG - FLY (mostly useless, use WRAITH)
IMPULSE 222 - Old Impulse 9 (all weapons, ammo and keys)
MAP # - MAP # (switches to a different level)
CHANGELEVEL # - CHANGELEVEL # (switches to a different level, keeping your inventory)

And the map list, use with the "MAP #" or the "CHANGELEVEL #" command.

code:

nehstart
neh1m1
neh1m2
neh1m3
neh1m4
neh1m5
neh1m6
neh1m7
neh1m8
neh1m9
neh2m1
neh2m2
neh2m3
neh2m4
neh2m5
neh2m6
nehsec
nehend
nehahra

And if you have any further questions, I'll try and help you out.

e: \/\/\/\/\/\/ You're right! I'm so used to only using that in multiplayer I didn't even think of it.

DanTheFryingPan fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Jul 27, 2011

# ? Jul 27, 2011 12:55

ToxicFrog: Apr 26, 2008

DanTheFryingPan posted:

And the map list, use with the "MAP #" command. Using this, you will spawn with just the shotgun and 25 shells, so good luck.

If I remember my Quake correctly, changelevel # will change maps without losing your current inventory, too.

# ? Jul 27, 2011 15:45

SavageMessiah: Jan 28, 2009; Emotionally drained and spookified; Toilet Rascal

Lawman 0 posted:

Isn't john romero actually working on a level for that wad or something?

I don't think so, but he did pop into the thread to weigh in on the E1 design aesthetic a few times at least.

# ? Jul 27, 2011 15:49

Roobanguy: May 31, 2011

Thy flesh consumed doesn't pull any punches does it? Cyberdemon by the second level on Hurt me plenty. I just decided to hoof it to the exit then even try to kill it in the space I had.

# ? Jul 27, 2011 19:49

an_mutt: Sep 29, 2010; I was,
I am,
and I remain a soldier!

Sworn to dedicate my heart and soul to the restoration of human kind!

Roobanguy posted:

Thy flesh consumed doesn't pull any punches does it? Cyberdemon by the second level on Hurt me plenty. I just decided to hoof it to the exit then even try to kill it in the space I had.

There's a teleporter just before the blue block/door thing that allows you to telefrag the Cyberdemon, I think.

e; to activate the platform it turns out you have to walk past the Cyber until you hear the sound of a door opening. Good luck? :buddy:

an_mutt fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Jul 27, 2011

# ? Jul 27, 2011 21:20

Minidust: Nov 4, 2009; Keep bustin'

Roobanguy posted:

Thy flesh consumed doesn't pull any punches does it? Cyberdemon by the second level on Hurt me plenty. I just decided to hoof it to the exit then even try to kill it in the space I had.

Cyberdemon? I just played through Thy Flesh Consumed for the first time. Did I miss a huge part of level 2 or is this some mod you're referring to?

# ? Jul 27, 2011 21:51

Vertigus: Jan 8, 2011

The Kins posted:

Some random news![list]
[*]Some mysterious Russian dude has thrown together a version of GZDoom for OSX, if you perfer using fancy expensive silver-y computers. It's not official, but the dev seems to be constantly synching to the SVN updates.

Thank loving god. It's about time.

# ? Jul 27, 2011 21:54

Roobanguy: May 31, 2011

Minidust posted:

Cyberdemon? I just played through Thy Flesh Consumed for the first time. Did I miss a huge part of level 2 or is this some mod you're referring to?

I'm using brutal doom, but I don't think that changes any enemy spawns. The cyberdemon was also right at the end, after opening the blue key pillar.

# ? Jul 27, 2011 21:59

Dominic White: Nov 1, 2005

It's been so long since I've even looked at Quake 1, but Darkplaces has really come leaps and bounds in terms of raw usability and fanciness. Took only a few minutes to download and install the high-res packs, and the game looks downright spiffy now with all the lighting and effects maxed out.

Funny seeing Quake + Expansions expanded from around 120mb to 1.8gb though.

Edit: Is there a high-res monster pack anywhere? It's kinda weird seing these super-blocky, blurrily textured enemies in such a luciously detailed environment.

Dominic White fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Jul 27, 2011

# ? Jul 27, 2011 22:08

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# ? May 15, 2024 20:31

JerryLee: Feb 4, 2005; THE RESERVED LIST! THE RESERVED LIST! I CANNOT SHUT UP ABOUT THE RESERVED LIST!

Roobanguy posted:

Thy flesh consumed doesn't pull any punches does it? Cyberdemon by the second level on Hurt me plenty. I just decided to hoof it to the exit then even try to kill it in the space I had.

This made me load up the level and see if my memory was playing tricks on me about how much space was to be had. Turns out there's more than enough room to fight the Cyberdemon the normal way, considering that with the Cyber immobile "enough room" is basically asking "Do you have about 192 units in which to strafe left and right? Y/N."

Of course, the immobility is also a perfectly fine argument for just running past it or, yes, telefragging it.

Now I'm flashing back to how unbelievably bad the second half of the Lost Episodes of Doom levels were. One of them had the most pointless Cyberdemon ever: in a cage adjoining a wide hallway with no key objectives nearby, with two invulnerability artifacts. :stare:

E4M2, on the other hand, is a really fine level, and it was fun doing it from a pistol start :toot:

# ? Jul 27, 2011 22:48

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

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