|
Midnight- posted:So GRRM has now said it's going to be 8 books rather than 7. The only thing stretching this story out is this constant need to kick in his own sand castles... he clearly hates all his characters so much that only two more books will be too little time to tragically gently caress up every awesome character or spend 4 pages making them nude walk the sept of baelor. Book 8 will consist almost entirely of characters that either haven't been introduced yet or merely walked past in book two or three and will necessitate a ninth.
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2011 22:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 07:55 |
|
|
I think that Mance is playing the long con. Ramsay captured him, so he told Ramsay exactly what he needed to tell him to avoid flaying, and helped Ramsay craft a plan that would get both of them what they wanted. In other words, the letter was written by both of them. Mance demands his wife and son; Ramsay demands his wife and his Reek. Mance has been consistently characterized as the craftiest fucker in Westeros. He may have even manipulated Ramsay into including his own demands, and he's probably just tricking Ramsay into writing his own death warrant, because he can really paint whatever picture he wants regarding the military capabilities of the Night's Watch. It's very unlikely that Ramsay would know about the allied wildling forces, and Mance would probably not inform him of them. Stannis is probably fine, especially because I interpreted various prophesies as indicating that he would at least survive long enough to clash directly with Dany.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2011 22:39
|
|
|
Calef posted:Stannis is probably fine, especially because I interpreted various prophesies as indicating that he would at least survive long enough to clash directly with Dany.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2011 23:41
|
|
|
If the Iron Banker personally killed like 50 motherfuckers (off screen, of course) I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. Is it possible that the letter originated at the Wall to goad Jon into oathbreaking so there would be a pretext for the conspirators to stab him?
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2011 23:58
|
|
|
Calef posted:I think that Mance is playing the long con. Ramsay captured him, so he told Ramsay exactly what he needed to tell him to avoid flaying, and helped Ramsay craft a plan that would get both of them what they wanted. In other words, the letter was written by both of them. Mance demands his wife and son; Ramsay demands his wife and his Reek. On the other hand, this is Ramsay, so the first time Mance said something witty and off-kilter, he would be missing a finger and three teeth and it would probably proceed from there.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 00:02
|
|
|
Ambiguatron posted:If the Iron Banker personally killed like 50 motherfuckers (off screen, of course) I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. But who at the Wall, especially of those who would participate in this, have known all of those details? Forget the bit about Mance being Abel, etc... - what about Theon and 'Arya' escaping?
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 00:20
|
|
|
Habibi posted:But who at the Wall, especially of those who would participate in this, have known all of those details? Forget the bit about Mance being Abel, etc... - what about Theon and 'Arya' escaping? Melisandre would. Or could.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 00:21
|
|
|
The idea that Mance and Ramsay co-authored it has a lot of merit. Of course, I imagine as soon as he finished writing it Ramsay cut off most of Mance and is using him as an stand in Reek.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 00:33
|
|
|
That supposes that Melissandre got the stick out of her rear end about "Stannis is the chosen one and the great R'a'lloo is just being a jerk and showing me nothing but snow for whatever reason!"
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 00:34
|
|
|
Liesmith posted:Dany is the prince who was promised according to Maester Aemon. Also possibly Jon??? The only candidate who doesn't have a PoV here is Griff/Aegon since there are supposed to be three of them and the only other guy in the running got set on fire. Up until this post I always had it in my head that either Bran or Tyrion where the third, but of course it's Ageon, it actually makes sense now. The three surviving Targs are the three heads. Unless they kill Dany, which would be cool, and then maybe Tyrion could still ride a dragon.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 01:15
|
|
|
I have this weird theory (apologies if it's already been discussed) that GRRM decided to eliminate the R+L = J possibility from the plot due to the fact that nearly everyone has guessed it, and instead brought back Aegon to make up for Jon no longer being a Targaryan.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 02:18
|
|
|
Pron on VHS posted:I have this weird theory (apologies if it's already been discussed) that GRRM decided to eliminate the R+L = J possibility from the plot due to the fact that nearly everyone has guessed it, and instead brought back Aegon to make up for Jon no longer being a Targaryan. I don't remember exactly what they were, but I believe there were hints that Aegon was still around before AFFC.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 02:23
|
|
|
The Shivering Sea is going to freeze over and Others are going to invade Braavos.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 02:47
|
|
|
Naylenas posted:The Shivering Sea is going to freeze over and Others are going to invade Braavos. That would be a very, very long walk, and does Braavos's port freeze over during the winter? They're south of White Harbor and Three Sisters, but I don't remember if those ports freeze. I think the Others will have enough flesh in Westeros to target first before walking over a barren sea to get at some tasty Braavosi meat.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 02:58
|
|
|
Caufman posted:That would be a very, very long walk, and does Braavos's port freeze over during the winter? They're south of White Harbor and Three Sisters, but I don't remember if those ports freeze. The Others bring the cold with them. Even if the descriptions and bits of legend we've heard of the last Other invasion are hyperbole, it's going to get really cold everywhere. There's mentions of snows a hundred feet deep in a normal winter. We also have no idea how many Others there are. The repeated mention of them implies that there actually are "ice spiders" too. I doubt they're huge frozen arachnids, though. You know what occurred to me while I was starting my re-read? At some point, actual grumpkins and snarks are going to show up, I'd put money on it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 03:04
|
|
|
Ambiguatron posted:At some point, actual grumpkins and snarks are going to show up, I'd put money on it. Absolutely, and everybody is going to be like "Seven Hells! What are those things?"
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 04:00
|
|
|
Mance Rayder PoV anyone? Considering how ADwD subverted my expectations of where the plot was going, my personal crazy theory is that the person who will finally meet Howland Reed will be Mance, when he escapes Winterfell and hides in the swamps of the Neck.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 05:14
|
|
|
So I just read the last two books (after reading the first three somewhere around 2004), and I don't have any other place to vent because my friends are still at book one or waiting for the second season of the show, so... This series was something I loved and cared about, and now it's just pages and pages and PAGES of boring loving poo poo and travelogues and irrelevant history and buttboys and Ghazzard Rzhard's and my favourite characters turning into uninteresting pieces of poo poo and so I feel like an rear end in a top hat for caring about it in the first place! gently caress!!!!!!! What the hell could even happen that would be interesting, so what if Dany makes it to Westeros and then goes on to rule over people I barely even know.  “I need a hat,” she said aloud.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 05:15
|
|
|
Just got back from the GRRM signing and I gotta admit it was a lot of fun. George is a funny guy, my friend and I thought he reminded us of Tyrion. He also made a point to state that if he died then he wants no one to finish the series. As far as his health, he is overweight, about 240-250ish, but not freakishly huge. Up close he looked fine. He didn't look that OLD. He should get rid of that beard cause that thing adds like another 10 years, appearance wise. I'd say he is healthy enough to finish the series at least. So all in all, good fun. He was a very nice guy and answered all my questions and even asked me some.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 05:17
|
|
|
jvilmi posted:What the hell could even happen that would be interesting, so what if Dany makes it to Westeros and then goes on to rule over people I barely even know. The only way this could go now (that I would want) is if the Others kill everyone in Westeros, then Ser Jorah Mormont, Arya, and Ser Barristen Selmy hook up with the hound and Ser Rob Zombie (the mountain) and slice them all down with wheelbarrows fulll of obsidian swords and pokables that they force Dany to make her dragons make. Then the party gets killed by snarks and grumpkins in the next book and the iron throne is taken by the dude with a tree root in his eye with Bran as his hand and Hodor controlled to be the new captain of the guard who solves everything as the Mountain that "Hodors". Bran and Arya marry the Reeds, and a giant statue of Syrio Forrell is built in the new sept of 'Just so'. Master Kush posted:Just got back from the GRRM signing and I gotta admit it was a lot of fun. George is a funny guy, my friend and I thought he reminded us of Tyrion. He also made a point to state that if he died then he wants no one to finish the series. As far as his health, he is overweight, about 240-250ish, but not freakishly huge. Up close he looked fine. He didn't look that OLD. He should get rid of that beard cause that thing adds like another 10 years, appearance wise. I'd say he is healthy enough to finish the series at least. So all in all, good fun. He was a very nice guy and answered all my questions and even asked me some. Now that he reckons it's going to take 8 books... I'm more worried about whether or not I'm going to live long enough to finish the series.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 05:53
|
|
|
hellbastard posted:
I will be in my 40s when this finishes. God drat it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 05:56
|
|
|
Ambiguatron posted:If the Iron Banker personally killed like 50 motherfuckers (off screen, of course) I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. The whole obsession about "his" Reek would seem to rule this out, except if it is written by a person who knows Ramsay Snow/Bolton really, really well. It even makes the "Mance wrote it"-theory a bit dubious for me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 06:16
|
|
|
Pron on VHS posted:I have this weird theory (apologies if it's already been discussed) that GRRM decided to eliminate the R+L = J possibility from the plot due to the fact that nearly everyone has guessed it, and instead brought back Aegon to make up for Jon no longer being a Targaryan. I think he intended to reveal it in the first book all along. You just have to read carefully. He likes rewarding careful readers; I don't think he's going to change the course of the whole series like that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 06:37
|
|
|
Well, just finished it a few hours ago. Still working my way through all 50 pages so forgive me if I repeat somebody: I agree that the Tyrion storyline didn't go nearly far enough, but I still liked the chapters well enough if only because the man himself is still as awesome as ever. They would've been a hundred times worse to slog through if it weren't for his beatdown-inducing snide remarks. I like the idea that Dany is slipping into madness. The hallucinations could be attributed to diarrhea berries but this book showed she really is a totally incompetent ruler and I'd rather see her as a full blown danger to the realm than just a bumbling idiot. I also wouldn't mind if Jon ended up being AA reborn. It seems like kind of a lame ending if a Targaryan beats the Others and ends up on the throne at the end and everything is just back to the way it was before Robert's rebellion. "Well, that was some crazy 20-25 years. Back to the same old poo poo." Maybe Jon and Dani are both Azor Ahai. The dragon has three heads, why not the savior as well? Daario and the hostages are all dead right? I thought it was pretty clearly mentioned that there were six hostages left after Hizdahr's nephews or whatever got returned and six catapults went off so... Maybe I'm remembering the numbers wrong. Victarion is the luckiest guy in the world. He has the dragon horn and is on a collision course with two motherless dragons that nobody can figure out how to control. I think he'll definitely end up with at least one of them. Overall I was very satisfied. I liked it a lot more than AFFC and there is a lot of cool setup for book six. Littlefinger is still a total wild card and Varys' motivations are less clear than they seem. If he's just a Targaryan loyalist why put out the death warrant on Dani in AGOT? Best excuse I can think of is Viserys was still in play so he hoped it would get Drogo to cross the seas with Viserys.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 06:39
|
|
|
I thought Sam had the real horn, the one they found at the fist?
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 07:11
|
|
|
Eggnogium posted:Littlefinger is still a total wild card and Varys' motivations are less clear than they seem. If he's just a Targaryan loyalist why put out the death warrant on Dani in AGOT? Best excuse I can think of is Viserys was still in play so he hoped it would get Drogo to cross the seas with Viserys. Chronologically in A Game of Thrones: Chapter 23: Daenerys makes Viserys her bitch (no horse) and after teaching some new sex positions to Drogo, she is pregnant. Chapter 32: Arya hears Varys and Illyrio discussing in the Red Keep. Illyrio tells Varys that Daneyris is pregnant and Visery is growing impatient but the Khal will not invade until the child is born. Varys says time is running out. ""If he does not bestir himself soon, it may be too late,[...]Delay, you say. Make haste, I reply." Chapter 33: Ned fails to persuade Robert not to kill Daenerys Targaryen, after they learn of her pregnancy from Varys. Chapter 46 : A golden crown. Guess Varys couldn't see that one coming. Chapter 54: The assassination attempt fails. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Jul 28, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 07:26
|
|
|
I always took it to be that Varys arranged for the assassination but wanted it to fail so he could anger Khal Drogo into invading sooner.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 07:59
|
|
|
I started reading Dance just recently and I'm just dumbstruck as to what happened in any of the other books. I need some resource I can read to catch me up. I tried finding one at Tower of the Hand but couldn't. Any ideas?
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 09:26
|
|
|
Affi posted:I started reading Dance just recently and I'm just dumbstruck as to what happened in any of the other books. I need some resource I can read to catch me up. I tried finding one at Tower of the Hand but couldn't. Stop reading dance and read from the beginning of the series, you'll have no idea what the gently caress if you keep reading on.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 10:05
|
|
|
Mr Crustacean posted:Stop reading dance and read from the beginning of the series, you'll have no idea what the gently caress if you keep reading on. Yes I started on book five because I am a loving retard. It is known.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 10:11
|
|
|
ofcourse I have read the books you dumbass I just don't want to re-read them and I was really loving confused at all the names thrown at me. Need something to catch me up.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 10:15
|
|
|
Affi posted:ofcourse I have read the books you dumbass I just don't want to re-read them and I was really loving confused at all the names thrown at me. Need something to catch me up. Well you worded it really badly mr 'dumbstruck as to what happened in any of the other books'  I dunno, maybe go to the wiki pages for the first 4 books?
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 10:29
|
|
|
VaultAggie posted:I thought Sam had the real horn, the one they found at the fist? That's (maybe) the horn of Joramun, the one that woke giants and (supposedly) will bring down the Wall. Victarion's got a different horn that's supposed to tame dragons (and kills whoever blows it). Hmm, that's an Ice horn and a Fire horn...
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 10:36
|
|
|
^Yeah, I was under the impression that there were 2 horns. One for dragons and one to bring down the wall ( )Affi posted:ofcourse I have read the books you dumbass I just don't want to re-read them and I was really loving confused at all the names thrown at me. Need something to catch me up. I don't know if there was any reason to get so pissed. It's hard for me too to remember all the (not main) characters and all the little plots. I second the opinion though that you should just look it up. If you've read the previous books it won't be difficult to remember the important stuff from summaries. I'm sure you're not the only one that's forgotten some things. I don't know if we're discussing the show at all here, but I just started on Battlestar Galactica after watching the GOT season, and Tigh really reminds me of Barristan, it makes me like his character more  E: loving f5 Sugar Bean fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Jul 28, 2011 |
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 10:39
|
|
|
Unkempt posted:That's (maybe) the horn of Joramun, the one that woke giants and (supposedly) will bring down the Wall. Victarion's got a different horn that's supposed to tame dragons (and kills whoever blows it). Also wasn't it revealed\hinted that the it was a fake horn of Joramun they burned?
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 11:11
|
|
|
Rhymenoceros posted:The horn burns the lungs of whoever blows it. Dany seems to be somewhat or totally immune to fire, so I guess she could blow some horns. Yeah, that's what VaultAggie was talking about. Somebody (Val?) said that Mance never found the real one, but there was another horn with the dragonglass cache that Jon found near the Fist. Sam's got it now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 11:33
|
|
|
Unkempt posted:Yeah, that's what VaultAggie was talking about. Somebody (Val?) said that Mance never found the real one, but there was another horn with the dragonglass cache that Jon found near the Fist. Sam's got it now. It's cool that there is a kingdom beyond the wall, that's the kind of stuff I like to hear in addition to the story. Half it (to me) is seeing the religions, cultures and customs of the soiaf universe.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 11:52
|
|
|
Rhymenoceros posted:On another note, I thought the bit about Thenn was cool. Thenn is a "real kingdom" with lords and laws, they mine the mountains for bronze and make their own weapons and armor. A bronze weapon can easily rival an iron weapon (not steel though). I could also point out this was done while having the plot involved. The Thenn's difference is just a part of bringing the wildings under the Night's Watch banner and it didn't take four chapters of some character wandering around their camps to show it. This is an example of G.R.R.M writing well. An entire chapter of Davos POV talking with the lord of an inbred rock in the Shivering Sea? Not so much.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 12:03
|
|
|
It'll be great for the next 20 years or so while the hbo series comes out when emilia clarke will just look sadly at the rest of the cast "sorry folks.. i won't have any scenes with ya'll for a while..."
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 12:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 07:55 |
|
|
Eggnogium posted:If he's just a Targaryan loyalist why put out the death warrant on Dani in AGOT?
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2011 13:28
|
|
