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They tone down the laugh tracks and pauses really fast. Enjoy season 1 while it lasts because the show gets bogged down by an annoying relationship problem just like Studio 60. And that Toby scene on the plane, I don't recall ever seeing that and I swear I've seen all the West Wing multiple times.
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Jul 26, 2011 02:49
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Mu Zeta posted:And that Toby scene on the plane, I don't recall ever seeing that and I swear I've seen all the West Wing multiple times. It's from The Stormy Present in season 5, which was one of the more interesting episodes of that season.
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Jul 26, 2011 02:53
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TheBigBad posted:Just started Sports Night for the first time. Wow... that pilot is seriously confused. Is it a sit-com? Is it a precursor to West Wing? There's definitely some beautiful set ups and pay offs by Mr. Sorkin. I wonder if I can make it through the next 44 episodes. You'll notice a LOT of overlap in storylines and episode names and occasionally even dialogue. I did Sports Night first and as I go through West Wing I'm continually amazed at the recycling. You'll see episodes that very clearly formed the template for "The Stackhouse Filibuster" and "Somebody's Going to Emergency, Somebody's Going to Jail." Also, the first half of the first season of SN is especially rocky because of the laugh track. It's clear that the network wanted it to be wacky work hijinks and Sorkin just wanted it to be... what it eventually becomes. The laugh track eventually gets turned down (and then vanishes entirely). I'd argue it's still worth it, though. I say that as one of the least sporty people on the planet.
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Jul 26, 2011 02:57
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t3ch3 posted:During my rewatch I've become a huge Margaret fan. Just a couple of episodes into season two and she's already crashed the White House email system by forwarding an email about muffins and told Leo that she's willing to forge the President's signature on a document handing power over to the Vice President. "Just for the future, I can sign the President's name. I have his signature down pretty good!" "...you can sign the President's name?" "Yeah!" "On a document removing him from power and giving it to someone else?" "Yeah! ...or, do you think the White House Counsel's Office would say that's a bad idea?" "I think the White House Counsel's Office would say that's a coup d'etat."
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Jul 26, 2011 03:24
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I love Sports Night to death, but... West Wing is a bit better. Sports Night is incredibly endearing, though. Watching the "Shutdown" plotline in season 5 seems a bit too timely these days. Kinda wish things in Washington could get resolved nice and quickly like in a West Wing episode.
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Jul 26, 2011 04:05
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TheBigBad posted:Just started Sports Night for the first time. Wow... that pilot is seriously confused. Is it a sit-com? Is it a precursor to West Wing? There's definitely some beautiful set ups and pay offs by Mr. Sorkin. I wonder if I can make it through the next 44 episodes. It's both. However, while the West Wing has great episodes, Sports Night mostly just has great moments. The half-hour slot limits the depth they're really able to go with any particular story or character in a single episode.
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Jul 26, 2011 04:44
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Chamberk posted:Watching the "Shutdown" plotline in season 5 seems a bit too timely these days. Kinda wish things in Washington could get resolved nice and quickly like in a West Wing episode. In God We Trust's plotline was basically "Congress is playing games with the debt ceiling, Bartlet and Vinick have to be the adults in the room."
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Jul 26, 2011 05:51
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Alaemon posted:You'll notice a LOT of overlap in storylines and episode names and occasionally even dialogue. I did Sports Night first and as I go through West Wing I'm continually amazed at the recycling. You'll see episodes that very clearly formed the template for "The Stackhouse Filibuster" and "Somebody's Going to Emergency, Somebody's Going to Jail." I think Sorkin now has established the tradition that for every series he does, the first season finale is going to be called "What Kind of Day Has it Been?" Kind of curious to see if he keeps it up with the new HBO series.
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Jul 26, 2011 06:02
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jeffersonlives posted:It's from The Stormy Present in season 5, which was one of the more interesting episodes of that season. Toby's little quips kill the entire 8 seasons. "I feel like I'm on voyage of the damned". Or during the pilot when it's him, Josh and CJ with the religious nutjobs and they say something snide about "NY types" and he's like, "they mean us Josh". Richard Schiff was brilliant as Toby, such a amazing character.
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Jul 26, 2011 06:07
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TheBigBad posted:Just started Sports Night for the first time. Wow... that pilot is seriously confused. Is it a sit-com? Is it a precursor to West Wing? There's definitely some beautiful set ups and pay offs by Mr. Sorkin. I wonder if I can make it through the next 44 episodes. It's easiest if you just think of it as a drama that happens to be 22 minutes, and ignore the laugh track until it goes away (which it eventually does).
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Jul 26, 2011 09:33
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jeffersonlives posted:In God We Trust's plotline was basically "Congress is playing games with the debt ceiling, Bartlet and Vinick have to be the adults in the room." Watched this a few weeks ago and it scared the poo poo out of me how similar it was to what's going on now.
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Jul 26, 2011 16:36
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Does anyone else skip over Isaac and Ishmael when they rewatch the show? I consider it more of a historical aberration than an episode of the show and it wasn't very interesting or well put together in the first place.
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Jul 27, 2011 23:01
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t3ch3 posted:Does anyone else skip over Isaac and Ishmael when they rewatch the show? I consider it more of a historical aberration than an episode of the show and it wasn't very interesting or well put together in the first place. I do. Watched it the one time, have no need to see it again.
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Jul 27, 2011 23:15
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t3ch3 posted:Does anyone else skip over Isaac and Ishmael when they rewatch the show? I consider it more of a historical aberration than an episode of the show and it wasn't very interesting or well put together in the first place. I always skip over that one. I couldn't even make it through it the first time. I felt like I was being given a condescending lecture in the 8th grade. By far the worst episode of the series.
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Jul 27, 2011 23:26
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ALl the kid actors were also terrible and asked the worst questions. "Aren't all Muslims terrorists?"  It felt like an after school special and nobody acted like themselves.
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Jul 27, 2011 23:31
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I don't really blame the writing and acting, since they had about a week to put the whole thing together from start to finish and I'm sure nobody was happy about doing it. I understand why they did it, but it's one of those things that with a decade of hindsight you can say, "Nah, you probably shouldn't have bothered."
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Jul 27, 2011 23:34
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I'll give that episode credit, cause it DID actually change one of my friend's minds about the Muslim world when he saw it back in the day. I skipped it, though.
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Jul 28, 2011 00:37
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Chamberk posted:I'll give that episode credit, cause it DID actually change one of my friend's minds about the Muslim world when he saw it back in the day. It gave me an easy to understand analogy when people are being bigots and saying all Muslims are terrorists. IIRC they compared the terrorists to the KKK and pointed out how the KKK didn't represent Christians in general, and in fact most mainstream Christian society is horrified at the KKK's actions. That and something about apples and or peanut butter is all I remember from the episode.
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Jul 28, 2011 00:55
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Its a really good bottle episode, so I watch it and I remember what happened to necessitate it. I'm glad its there and that they took the effort to educate the public. At work, we had a lot of diversity and anyone and everyone with origins from the middle east, regardless of whether it was Indian, Egyptian, Turkish... no matter how ludicrous had spent weeks walking around almost cowering and avoiding eye contact. Not without reason because every white person I knew and sat in a cubicle next to was pissed. Pissed like OJ got off again pissed.
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Jul 28, 2011 01:04
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I always wonder what happened to all the staff that followed Josh and Santos around during the last two seasons. I wish they would have laid out all of their eventual positions instead of just the few that they did.
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Jul 28, 2011 02:42
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Hobohemian posted:I always skip over that one. I couldn't even make it through it the first time. I felt like I was being given a condescending lecture in the 8th grade. By far the worst episode of the series. I think people underestimate just how offensive the discussions was back then regarding Muslims and Islam. Say what you want about the writing, but there is no doubt this episode helped to calm a lot of public discussion about Muslims during that time. At least, I believe so.
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Jul 28, 2011 04:13
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I skip Isaac & Ishmael, Access, and The Long Goodbye every time. I love Shibboleth for the knife exchange scene, and the Supremes because even though it would never fly in real life, in the show it just works. I also love Edward James Olmos' scenes.
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Jul 28, 2011 04:41
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Cwapface posted:"Just for the future, I can sign the President's name. I have his signature down pretty good!" "And what are you doing practicing the president's signature?!"
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Jul 28, 2011 12:04
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eclectic taste posted:I skip Isaac & Ishmael, Access, and The Long Goodbye every time. Kind of got me thinking...but who is everyone's least favorite character on the main cast? For me, it's definitely CJ. I didn't like the episodes that focused on her. Sure, she was hilarious doing The Jackal or after oral surgery, but I don't think she could handle being the center of an entire episode.
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Jul 28, 2011 13:42
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eclectic taste posted:I skip Isaac & Ishmael, Access, and The Long Goodbye every time. I always intend to skip The Long Goodbye, but once I start it I can't quit. The writing and especially the acting is really really good. If you don't go into it expecting West Wing hijinks, it's a first-class hour of character drama.
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Jul 28, 2011 14:01
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TheBigBad posted:Just started Sports Night for the first time. Wow... that pilot is seriously confused. Is it a sit-com? Is it a precursor to West Wing? There's definitely some beautiful set ups and pay offs by Mr. Sorkin. I wonder if I can make it through the next 44 episodes. Sure you can. And if you get bored of it at least you can occupy yourself by pointing out plots, themes and actors he recycled in the West Wing. There's a lot of them. It's a great show in it's own right but suffered because a lot of the time what Sorkin was trying to do just didn't fit into the format. Especially some of those "beautiful set ups and pay offs". It's a lot more difficult to earn them (if that's the right way of putting it) in such a short span of time. On top of that you have a subject matter that is somewhat limited in terms of dramatic pay-offs. For me Studio 60 suffered from the same problem. I mean I know a lot of people had plenty of problems with it, but overall I enjoyed the show. The environment of the show just didn't provide a good match for the weighty plots Sorkin likes to toss around and play with. So you end up with some fairly stupid stuff shoe-horned into a dramedy about a comedy show. Three episode arcs about kidnapped soldiers simply don't make sense in the context of the show, it's like a "derail". Especially in the shadow of The West Wing where these kind of high stake plots make more sense. I'm hoping "More As This Story Develops" works better and you can kind of have the best of both worlds. The behind the scenes stuff that works from his previous shows coupled with an environment where weighty subject matter makes more sense.
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Jul 28, 2011 14:30
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Omne posted:she was hilarious doing The Jackal or after oral surgery I HAD WOOT CANAWWWLLLL!!!! Also: Josh: Sam's at Foggy Bottom. CJ: What'sh Sam doing at Foggy Bottom? Josh: (snickering) He's not--I just wanted to hear you say Foggy Bottom. Sam's in with the speechwriters.
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Jul 28, 2011 14:34
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Omne posted:Kind of got me thinking...but who is everyone's least favorite character on the main cast? For me, it's definitely CJ. I didn't like the episodes that focused on her. Sure, she was hilarious doing The Jackal or after oral surgery, but I don't think she could handle being the center of an entire episode. Of the main cast, CJ was my least favorite. She was best when taken in small doses, but when the entire episode revolved around her it was too much. The later episodes when CJ was Chief of Staff were some of my least favorite. I never really believed the Press Secretary would be promoted to CoS in the first place.
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Jul 28, 2011 16:23
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eclectic taste posted:I never really believed the Press Secretary would be promoted to CoS in the first place. I had problems with this too, and with the fact they would throw Toby or Will, untrained, in front of the press corps. It felt like unnecessary seat-shuffling (same as when Charlie more or less arbitrarily switches roles without altering what he actually does on the show in any capacity) and most of all I could not remotely buy that the number one candidate for Chief of Staff was not the Deputy Chief of Staff.
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Jul 28, 2011 16:53
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The Jackal is one of the worst scenes in the entire show.
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Jul 28, 2011 17:01
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Gravy Jones posted:Sure you can. And if you get bored of it at least you can occupy yourself by pointing out plots, themes and actors he recycled in the West Wing. There's a lot of them. I loved Studio 60. Its cancellation is up there with Firefly for me. But I was a rabid West Wing/Friends fan so this makes sense. Sorkin is definitely my favorite writer.
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Jul 28, 2011 17:38
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Mu Zeta posted:The Jackal is one of the worst scenes in the entire show. I got the impression that the writers/actors thought Allison Janney's Jackal schtick was a lot funnier than it really was.
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Jul 28, 2011 17:42
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Tater Love 
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zakharov posted:I got the impression that the writers/actors thought Allison Janney's Jackal schtick was a lot funnier than it really was. Its not funny- its cool. Stop outing yourselves.
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Jul 28, 2011 17:53
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Studio 60 had its moments. Most of them involved Steven Weber. But yeah, Sorkin really wanted to write about Red/Blue State issues, and it wasn't the appropriate venue for that.TheBigBad posted:I loved Studio 60. Its cancellation is up there with Firefly for me. But I was a rabid West Wing/Friends fan so this makes sense. Sorkin is definitely my favorite writer. Uh...what does Friends have to do with any of this?
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Jul 28, 2011 19:12
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mr. unhsib posted:Uh...what does Friends have to do with any of this? Matthew Perry?
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Jul 28, 2011 19:17
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Hahah, right.
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Jul 28, 2011 19:23
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One of the moments that always bothers me is during the Santos/Vinick debate Matt makes a big deal about how he'll never go to war for oil and how it was a big part of his energy plan. I get that they want to reference Iraq but holy poo poo, it was out of place. It's a complete non-issue in the West Wing universe so why is he even bringing the idea up? I was also really aware that despite the whole drama over the Military Shuttle leak it's never brought up in the debate or anywhere else for the Nominees. You'd think that it would be one of the major issues in the election.
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Jul 28, 2011 19:25
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Everyone tried to forget that the military shuttle existed
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Jul 28, 2011 19:44
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mr. unhsib posted:Hahah, right. Chandler Bing stars in everything, Mathew Perry just cashes the check. BING!
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Jul 28, 2011 20:32
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qntm posted:I had problems with this too, and with the fact they would throw Toby or Will, untrained, in front of the press corps. It felt like unnecessary seat-shuffling (same as when Charlie more or less arbitrarily switches roles without altering what he actually does on the show in any capacity) and most of all I could not remotely buy that the number one candidate for Chief of Staff was not the Deputy Chief of Staff. At that point wasn't Josh working with Santos? Come to think of it (goes to show how much I paid attention to the oval office during those latter seasons) who took over as Deputy CoS for Josh?
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Jul 28, 2011 23:42
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