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Iggles posted:Didn't Jorah cover all of this in aGoT? Dothraki would kill knights with their awesome archery skills if the lords were foolish enough to meet them in combat. If they hide behind their castle it's fine for a while but wouldn't make them teribly popular rulers. And the smallfolk would all be dead/enslaved. Great plan to rule the now devastated and unpopulated kingdom. I'm not sure the Dothraki would've been that successful in combat, necessarily. Historically, the Mongols and Tatars did win some notable victories, but over time as European nations began to change their tactics more and more eastern armies were crushed in the field.
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Jul 30, 2011 13:56
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Haraksha posted:When did this talk of an eighth book come about? He said here that he's planning on finishing it in seven books but he "know[s] better than to promise anything and write it out in blood. " Basically he said "I don't want to confirm or deny anything because if it turns into another 'Meanwhile back at the Wall' I don't want to be [as] crucified" and people basically read that as "CONFIRMED: BOOK 8 is a reality".
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Jul 30, 2011 14:44
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bigmcgaffney posted:Holy gently caress, coveted NFL Football Player Nnamdi Asomugha signed with the Philadelphia Eagles instead of the NY JETS, author George R.R. Martin has massive coronary Gurm probably didn't even know who Nnamdi was , but today he - like all Jets fans - will be circlejerking around talking about how that "assomuggah" guy isn't even that good anyway J E T S JETSJETSJETS
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Jul 30, 2011 15:08
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The Winds of Winter is going to open with Jon being revived by Melisandre. It's the only thing that makes sense.
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Jul 30, 2011 15:09
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I hope Aegon dies in the Winds prologue.
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Jul 30, 2011 15:24
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Cryle posted:This is the kind of thing you should figure out from subtext in my opinion? Catelyn brought her back from the dead after she was hung. That's what I thought too. Am I totally misremembering, or did Jamie say something about Brienne's neck being covered up, like by a scarf or something? I figured it was to hide the hideous rope marks...
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Jul 30, 2011 15:24
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Haraksha posted:I want to say I was surprised that Jon bit it, but killing off main characters has almost become a cliche in GRRM's books. He's not permanently dead though, 99% sure Mel will revive him or something. quote:Also, what the hell was the Meeereeeneeeseeee Knot? The only guy to actually get to Meereen was Quentyn. Victarion and Tyrion are close but doing their own things. He has basically said that the problem was figuring out the timeline of when people would arrive, and went through a bunch of iterations, and supposedly fixed the problem by including Barristan as a POV.
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Jul 30, 2011 16:03
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Haraksha posted:The Winds of Winter is going to open with Jon being revived by Melisandre. It's the only thing that makes sense. My fantasy opening for Winds is a chapter with Stannis back at the wall. It would go along as normal, but end with him "flexing the fingers of his sword hand" That phrase has been repeated way too many times for it not to be used as a tell later on.
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Jul 30, 2011 16:21
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lapse posted:He's not permanently dead though, And this also seems to be a bit of a GRRM problem. Characters don't like staying dead. Gangringo posted:My fantasy opening for Winds is a chapter with Stannis back at the wall. It would go along as normal, but end with him "flexing the fingers of his sword hand" Only too late will they realize that this Stannis never once ground his teeth.
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Jul 30, 2011 16:28
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I like how everyone seems to hate Dany for not murdering innocent hostages or just killing off the entire ruling class of her city.
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Jul 30, 2011 16:34
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lapse posted:He has basically said that the problem was figuring out the timeline of when people would arrive, and went through a bunch of iterations, and supposedly fixed the problem by including Barristan as a POV. Yeah, I get that's what he said. I definitely read all the interviews, but seeing the final product makes me wonder just how hard it was to get to that point. I guess without Selmy, it'd be pretty tough to really understand what was going on in the Great Pyramid after Dany left, but Tyrion and Victarion aren't there yet. When he went on and on about not being able to figure out the timeline, I just kind of assumed this meant that those characters would actually have all come face to face with Dany by this point, but that still hasn't even been resolved entirely. Only one of the suitors is taken care of, and we could have gathered that without making Selmy a POV. Instead, the vast majority of the story is Dany putting off her marriage to Loraq, Tyrion going in circles with Jorah, and Quentyn inching forward to Meereen and still being the only one to actually get resolve their plot thread. Victarion doesn't even show up until halfway through the book and his plot is non-essential to this book and could probably have been left until The Winds of Winter (I like them in Dance though because they're exciting and it lets things in Meereen get off to a violent start in the next book). So it just seems like this knot shouldn't have been as confusing and difficult to work with as he made it out to be. However, I'm also looking at it as a well thought out finished product and I don't really have any idea what the previous versions of the story looked like. eXXon posted:I like how everyone seems to hate Dany for not murdering innocent hostages or just killing off the entire ruling class of her city. No denying that the hostages were innocents, but empty threats don't defeat enemies. Dany didn't really do anything. Her dragon hosed some poo poo up on its own and she paced around a lot and hosed that guy Daario, but she was never really queenly.
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Jul 30, 2011 16:57
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There was loving 400 pages spent on Dany's woe-is-me-I-want-to-gently caress-Daario poo poo hardly any character development. I can't stand her whiny poo poo anymore and her "I AM THE DRAGON" crap. At this point I'm sick of her I hope Tyrion is a Targ so he can kill Dany, take her Dragons and then go burn down all of Westeros.
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Jul 30, 2011 17:27
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It felt like I was reading bad fanfiction the whole book. gently caress you GRRM. Mereenese knot my rear end.
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Jul 30, 2011 17:40
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Haraksha posted:The Winds of Winter is going to open with Jon being revived by Melisandre. It's the only thing that makes sense. Perhaps you should re-read the prologue of ADWD?
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Jul 30, 2011 17:41
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How the gently caress did Tyrion spend the entire book getting to Mereen and still not get in?
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Jul 30, 2011 17:42
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A whole book of unraveling the "knot" and I'm still not sure what the outcome/point of the entire Slaver's Bay saga is supposed to be. Which would honestly be to GRRM's credit, if I had been given any reason to give a poo poo about Meereen. If.
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Jul 30, 2011 17:49
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Zeitgueist posted:How the gently caress did Tyrion spend the entire book getting to Mereen and still not get in? He did get in; remember he performed with Penny at the first pit games held since the pits were re-opened.
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Jul 30, 2011 17:53
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Ecco the Dolphin posted:A whole book of unraveling the "knot" and I'm still not sure what the outcome/point of the entire Slaver's Bay saga is supposed to be. Which would honestly be to GRRM's credit, if I had been given any reason to give a poo poo about Meereen. If. Slavery is Bad, dude. Dany is a Champion of Justice. Dumb girl killed Drogo too early he would have come back about now ready for a sloppy bj. bigmcgaffney fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jul 30, 2011 |
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Jul 30, 2011 17:55
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Yeah, it's mentioned how he saw Selmy at one point. Also, was Tyrion ever in Braavos? In one of the Cersei chapters, someone mentions to her that he saw Tyrion at a mummers show in Braavos.
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Jul 30, 2011 18:00
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VaultAggie posted:Yeah, it's mentioned how he saw Selmy at one point. Also, was Tyrion ever in Braavos? In one of the Cersei chapters, someone mentions to her that he saw Tyrion at a mummers show in Braavos. It was probably Groat/Penny.
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Jul 30, 2011 18:01
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Ecco the Dolphin posted:A whole book of unraveling the "knot" and I'm still not sure what the outcome/point of the entire Slaver's Bay saga is supposed to be. Which would honestly be to GRRM's credit, if I had been given any reason to give a poo poo about Meereen. If. Yeah, this is my problem with the whole Meereen thing - I just can't bring myself to give a poo poo about it at all (I'm really surprised he didn't introduce a new character who was a Harpy to give us some perspective on the struggle but NO! Dany is perfect and slavery is Bad!!). There is nothing interesting about it, and gurm goes and wastes an entire book which we've been waiting for years on without progressing at all. If you had told me that by the end of the book Dany still would not have been out of that loving city, I would have given up and waited until TWOW was out so I can read one after the other. Now I'm stuck fuming that I waited all that time for a book that did not progress the plot in the least. At least Jaime's and Selmy's chapters were interesting, and Victarion is a total badass. But seriously, basically nothing happened in this book that could not have just been mentioned off screen. The whole time I felt like gurm was just spinning his wheels out of indecision.
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Jul 30, 2011 18:25
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Iggles posted:Didn't Jorah cover all of this in aGoT? Dothraki would kill knights with their awesome archery skills if the lords were foolish enough to meet them in combat. If they hide behind their castle it's fine for a while but wouldn't make them teribly popular rulers. And the smallfolk would all be dead/enslaved. Great plan to rule the now devastated and unpopulated kingdom. Yeah, it's the archery they need to fear. Historically, excellent horse archery has been the bane of even well trained foot soldiers. The knights and free riders are only a small fraction of any Westerosi army. The bulk is poorly trained peasant infantry led by some decent men-at-arms and serjeants (  ).quote:But then you're not really reading, maaaan. I don't mean to poo poo on anyone who listens to audiobooks, but when you're listening to one, you really are not reading. Just on a very basic level, you're giving up the ability to pause, reread, and speed or slow your pace at your leisure. Sure you can pause and rewind on your ipod or whatever, but it's so much easier when you're looking at words instead of listening to someone speak. There's other reasons why I don't think listening to an audiobook is analogous to reading a book, but I don't want to get into a big derail about it.
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Jul 30, 2011 19:54
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Someone really needs to get updating GRRM's website. It's embarrassingly amateur, and isn't up to date to boot. This guy has an HBO series based off his work... why not put a bit of effort and dedication into it?
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Jul 30, 2011 20:07
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Adama posted:Someone really needs to get updating GRRM's website. It's embarrassingly amateur, and isn't up to date to boot. This guy has an HBO series based off his work... why not put a bit of effort and dedication into it? The guy still use a DOS machine to do his writing, just be happy you don't dial in to a BBS to get to his site.
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Jul 30, 2011 21:03
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kanonvandekempen posted:I was thinking about the last daenerys chapter and this is how I interpreted it: She got pregnant because all conditions of the prophecy have been fulfilled:
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Jul 30, 2011 21:48
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EC posted:Audiobooks are bad? I personally can't stand them, but I know a lot of people that "read" books this way and can discuss them just fine. If they aren't bad, then why can't you stand them? That's bad, isn't it? Sounds bad. I have some objections to audiobooks. The first and foremost is that they completely and totally disconnect you from the act of reading. When you make the effort (there is effort involved and that's why so many people don't do it) to read a book, your own mind, your own personality, and your own inner-voice "read it to you." You read descriptions of people, places, and feelings; and you interpret them with examples from your own life experiences. It's what makes reading so personal. You get your own mental picture of what a person sounds like, or looks like, and it's unique to you. This is why seeing a book made into a movie is always somewhat jarring. Worse, you go back to re-read the work and suddenly all you can see and hear is the actors cast and their own tone and voice. The work, as you first interpreted it, is gone forever. So a guy reading it to you and doing the voices for you completely removes this from the experience. Now, every character sounds like the guy who read it, which also influences your ideas of what they must look like or be like. I think that's bad. The second reason is that it's just lazy. If you have the capability and the vocabulary to read a book, then the amount of time it takes to read it yourself as opposed to having it read to you is about the same. Ok, so you can't read while driving your car but you can be read to. Save it for when you can sit down and turn the pages, it's better that way. I make the time to read because it is rewarding in and of itself. Being read to might give you the text, but it also distorts it. And (opinions, remember) it's lazy and it's dumb. At no point in this answer did I turn into a caricature and say, "reading, maaaaaaaaan." Feel free to disagree, I'm just making my case.
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Jul 30, 2011 21:56
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PeterWeller posted:I don't mean to poo poo on anyone who listens to audiobooks, but when you're listening to one, you really are not reading. Just on a very basic level, you're giving up the ability to pause, reread, and speed or slow your pace at your leisure. Sure you can pause and rewind on your ipod or whatever, but it's so much easier when you're looking at words instead of listening to someone speak. There's other reasons why I don't think listening to an audiobook is analogous to reading a book, but I don't want to get into a big derail about it. I agree with this, but I get the impression that most people who use audiobooks do so for logistical reasons (i.e. they have to spend 2+ hours a day driving), not because they like it better. So showering them in condescendence as if they were lazy illiterates is pretty annoying.
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Jul 30, 2011 22:06
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NihilCredo posted:I agree with this, but I get the impression that most people who use audiobooks do so for logistical reasons (i.e. they have to spend 2+ hours a day driving), not because they like it better. So showering them in condescendence as if they were lazy illiterates is pretty annoying. Yeah, which is why I don't want to poo poo on the people who are listening to the audiobooks. Dr. Faustus posted:I have some objections to audiobooks. Your objections are my own, but that doesn't mean we should derail this thread in an attempt to educate the Philistines.
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Jul 30, 2011 22:22
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Dr. Faustus posted:And (opinions, remember) it's lazy and it's dumb. I'm genuinely sorry that you don't like them, but your generalizations are off-base, and you DID turn into a caricature. I highlighted your inconsistency in my quote. If you'd ever consider reexamining your currently held opinions on audiobooks, the full-cast reading of Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials, with the author himself reading the non-dialogue parts is simply incredible.
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Jul 30, 2011 22:35
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Too bad there's only one good book in that trilogy.
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Jul 30, 2011 23:04
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Roy Dotrice is awesome and the way he reads books is awesome. End of argument.
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Jul 30, 2011 23:05
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Phylodox posted:Roy Dotrice is awesome and the way he reads books is awesome. End of argument.
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Jul 31, 2011 01:16
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Iggles posted:Stop me if this sounds patronising but you know that women don't have periods whilst pregnant right? The women in my family do and don't say whilst
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Jul 31, 2011 02:15
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Krinkle's inbred freakshow family aside women don't generally have periods whilst pregnant
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Jul 31, 2011 02:25
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Mr.Brinks posted:Yeah, this is my problem with the whole Meereen thing - I just can't bring myself to give a poo poo about it at all (I'm really surprised he didn't introduce a new character who was a Harpy to give us some perspective on the struggle but NO! Dany is perfect and slavery is Bad!!). There is nothing interesting about it, and gurm goes and wastes an entire book which we've been waiting for years on without progressing at all. If you had told me that by the end of the book Dany still would not have been out of that loving city, I would have given up and waited until TWOW was out so I can read one after the other. Now I'm stuck fuming that I waited all that time for a book that did not progress the plot in the least. I didn't say this in my previous post, but it's more or less what I was getting at. He spent almost a thousand pages "unraveling the knot", but at the end of the book we're still in Slaver's Bay. We have been in Slaver's Bay since A Storm of Swords. This is going to be a loving 4 book arc before it's all done. We're getting to "Perrin wishing after his wife" levels of stagnation.
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Jul 31, 2011 02:33
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Krinkle posted:The women in my family do Are you sure?
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Jul 31, 2011 02:58
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Mr.Brinks posted:Yeah, this is my problem with the whole Meereen thing - I just can't bring myself to give a poo poo about it at all (I'm really surprised he didn't introduce a new character who was a Harpy to give us some perspective on the struggle but NO! Dany is perfect and slavery is Bad!!). There is nothing interesting about it, and gurm goes and wastes an entire book which we've been waiting for years on without progressing at all. If you had told me that by the end of the book Dany still would not have been out of that loving city, I would have given up and waited until TWOW was out so I can read one after the other. Now I'm stuck fuming that I waited all that time for a book that did not progress the plot in the least. A few characters mentioned that some slaves had been generally well-treated by their masters, but now were homeless and starving because Dany abolished slavery. Also one of the Westerosi (Tyrion, maybe?) made a point of stating that even despite slavery being illegal in Westeros, a lot of people were treated as de facto slaves anyway. That said, the Meereen stuff was still incredibly boring and I've got no problem with GRRM presenting slavery as a negative thing. It's slavery.
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Jul 31, 2011 03:23
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Yeah, Tyrion was actually something of a voice of reason on it. He had that inner monolog about how every slave makes the choice of life as a slave or death as a freeman and how the life of a peasant in Westeros was in a lot of ways worse than being a slave in the East.
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Jul 31, 2011 03:50
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Plus at least with slavery families can stay together whereas out in Westeros you got all these Snows and Flowers and Rivers ridin' round shootin' crossbows and listening to trash sodomite music like "The Bear and the Maiden Fair". You start letting that song get out of control and one day you wake up and you got white walkers pinning cloaks on good highborn ladies.
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Jul 31, 2011 04:11
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Dr. Faustus posted:I enjoyed the book, it wasn't great at all times; but sometimes it was loving awesome. Sometimes it disappointed. That's my opinion. What novels don't ever disappoint?? Plenty of novels I've recently read haven't disappointed like Martin (and Rothfuss but this is the wrong thread for him) does for large sections - The Big Sleep, Grand Sophy, Lolita, Foucalt's Pendulum, For Whom the Bell Tolls, Blood Meridian, etc. Sure, the authors are among the best of their genres, but I thought Martin was supposed to be among the best in fantasy.
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Jul 31, 2011 05:09
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